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We are the 99 percent

Cindy Milstein: The Universal Language – “Fuck the Police” (Montreal, Night 47)

Posted 6 years ago on June 10, 2012, 10:02 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

Grand Disruption of Grand Prix, Montreal

I feel like I probably saw and was in the middle of only a fraction of all the tides of popular protests against the Grand Prix tonight. But to likely understate it, the police (SPVM to SQ) totally lost control and the people totally held the streets. And as one person said to us on the streets as riot cops swarmed by us for the umpteenth time–after about the umpteenth time that nearly everyone (and by nearly everyone, I mean an eclectic mix of thousands and thousands of people, many dressed in fancy Saturday night party clothes, far from “the usual suspects” and not a black bloc in sight) pushed the police back or for all intents and purposes kettled the cops, and after the many umpteenth times that nearly everyone booed at and many threw plastic bottles (or a beach ball) at the police–there’s a universal language on the streets this evening, and it’s “fuck the police.”

Of course, there was plenty of good reason to speak this global language on Montreal’s streets this evening: tear gas, batons, the incessant beating on shields, pushing, harassment, pepper spray, injuries, arrests. But none of those tactics worked. Nor did the tactic of attempting to divide the thousands of people “marching” or simply filling the streets. Each time the police managed to split enormous amounts of people into two, three, or four groups, or seemed to have dispersed people altogether, seconds or minutes later, there was a new massive group, or several, or another hot spot, with no rhyme or reason, and definitely no coordination. The sheer beauty of a mysterious spontaneity birthed of some sort of popular will and determination. Whether tourist or local, student or person in their seventies, a kid a stroller or an adult in a wheelchair, white or black, out for a drink or out for a protest, and on and on, people just kept coming at the cops again and again and again, with little fear and lots of animosity. This constant onslaught, from nearly all people and definitely in all directions, was relentless, bold, and tough, but never felt out of our control–even though the “our” was thoroughly unclear, or maybe a better word would be “expansive.” The “our” was the populace. And no one was in charge. Somehow, though, there was a common understanding of what our tactics were: holding ground, screaming at the police, throwing objects at the cops that couldn’t really hurt them, but under no circumstances would we give the streets or intersections over to them, or especially, under no conditions would we let our disruption be disrupted by the cops. These tactics of our didn’t include breaking store windows, or what seemed a far more likely target, smashing the windows or otherwise damaging the many extremely fancy and extremely expensive cars that we encircled time and again. Instead, we basically compelled the police to clearly “protect” the luxury cars from a nonthreat–other than the threat that we were walking the wrong way against traffic and making the car’s drivers/passengers come to a halt for hours. This only underscored the absurdity of this display of wealth in the midst of a governmental crisis over not meeting people’s basic needs.

When we started out at 8:30 p.m.m from the park next to the Berri-UQAM Metro, it felt that the couple thousand or so of us were modern-day peasants foolishly thinking we could breech the castle with our modern-day pitchforks: pots & pans, flags, drums, horns, and a lot of chanting and hand clapping. We passed by the big, free French-language music festival, and hundreds of concertgoers cheered us on, as did numerous passersby, who also often joined us. Our demonstration tried a couple times to “assault” the Grand Prix party area, but to no avail, and it seemed like things had come to a standstill and that everyone was dispersing.

My affinity group of two (myself and Ryan Harvey, on our night two together), kind of figured it was over and started to aimlessly meander toward the F1 party area, and then just as quickly as the march had disappeared, hundreds of police cars, vans, and cops swarmed by us, lights and sirens blaring. So we walked a block over from where the cops seemed to be heading, landing ourselves on the completely packed Ste.-Catherine street, a few blocks from the heart of F1 entertainment excess. Within two blocks more, our peasant crew of a couple thousand was backed up by many thousands more–the rabble, who likely didn’t plan on being rabble that night–and it was instantly clear that like last night, protesters and the populace (or rather, the populace in protest) had again managed to outwit the cops and disrupt the Grand Prix’s evening bash. Even more so than last night, however, the cops were completely outnumbered, seemed completely at a loss as to what to do, and often yelled orders that they couldn’t possibly fulfill. Each time they tried to push the crowds away, people stood their ground until the last minute, moved back a bit against walls or doorways, and then as the cops retreated, simply moved back into the streets again–with pretty much everyone on the street participating (and there were thousands and thousands of people out tonight in this busy area). Frequently, we ended up chasing the cops away, or basically pushing them back instead of them pushing us, by the thousands of us simply walking briskly toward them, shouting at them in at least two languages.

It’s hard to describe, or rather hard to translate, how this all felt, especially since it felt like nothing that I or Ryan have ever experienced. Ryan kept remarking how on incredible this past year-plus has been–from Tunisia and Egypt, to Indignados and Madison and occupy. We both marveled at this wave of revolt that sweeps this way and that, washing away prediction after prediction that it with disappear–in the same way that tonight, people were seemed washed away by the police, only to more turbulently sweep back into the streets that they so obviously understood as theirs, in their own maple uprising. They turned the normal life of a busy Saturday night street into a normalized yet extraordinary battleground of contestation and popular control, the 47th evening on top of something like 115 or so days of a massive student strike. People were clearly in complete, confident, calm (relative to the situation) collective self-command, and yet it was utterly rebellious, utterly disobedient to authority and cognizant of its own social power, and utterly populist.

I don’t want to minimize the fact that some people were arrested (CUTV reported that tonight marked the 9th attack by the SPVM on their crew in these last 3 days!), others were hurt, and many may only have been expressing anger at cops. Yet there’s also obvious widespread discontent at things like the evisceration of the promise of free education (a palpable memory of a promise some 30-40 years ago, mind you!) and increasingly harsh austerity cuts. There’s an obvious widespread disillusionment with the government and its police, with the word “fascist” being the most frequently used word to describe what people feel it happening to Canadian and especially Quebec society in light of special law 78.

It’s like the student strike–some two years in the making/planning, and building on the history of other student strikes and the not-so-quiet Quiet Revolution of the 1960s to 1970s–was the first strike in a wake-up call that has now startled people into not falling asleep again. As one longtime anarchist on the streets tonight mentioned to us, basically: we anarchists (or more broadly, anticapitalists) have a lot to learn from this. There’s no way radicals could have brought about the social upheaval that is winning. That has already won many hearts and minds and actively engaged bodies in a way that’s way beyond any “mere” social movement. There’s a lot to learn about what it took to organize the student strike, what it took to build and sustain it, what it’s taking now to keep it going, and how the hell so much of the population here sympathesizes with and brazenly leaps into this struggle. And there’s the perplexing question of where it will all go. This particular anarchist friend said he thought June 22 was crucial; that it needed to be big. A second later he added, “But who knows? Maybe June 22 isn’t key.”

On Thursday night, a mere 3 days ago, with a couple hundred mostly anticapitalist folks (since that was the call for this demo) quickly kettled and thinking we were going to spend the night in jail, I thought the Grand Prix would go merrily on its way, untouched by this monumental and historic student strike. Now, in the early hours of Sunday morning, with the start of the Grand Prix’s noxious engines just a few hours away, I’m astonished that I’ve spent two nights smack in the center of the F1 party, as a society-at-large (rather than a handful of radicals or protesters) chooses that it’s worth the disruption in order to make the student strike and now widening social strike plain as day. Making it the story.

As usual, I walked the hour or so back to where I’m staying after the hours of near-riot tonight, passing late-night partiers and people walking their dogs, realizing it was nearly 2 a.m. as I turned on to Mont-Royal, which has been closed to traffic now for 2-3 days for a street fair, or mix of entertainment, food, and lots of sale items from the surrounding stores. There were still a fair amount of folks mingling around on the closed-off Mont-Royal, but most of them were all looking down at the road.

In the middle of the street, for some 6-8 blocks or more ahead of me, were gigantic street art pieces, composed of paint and chalk, each with the yellow line of the road vaguely appearing in the center. Some of the artists were still around, adding to their work, and I asked a young artist about his piece, after I noticed that the first 8 or 10 of these massive street drawings had red squares in them, not to mention casseroles or the number “78.”

“What is this? Were you supposed to include the red square in your work?” I asked him, noticing a red square pinned to his shirt.

“This happens every year, but we can create whatever we want to. A lot of people want to use the red square in their art. They say that us students are violent. Sometimes a window might get broken, but that’s not violence. It’s the police who are violent. They just get more violent. All we want is a better world. That’s what we’re fighting for.”

I saw him notice my red square too, and he added, “Thank you for wearing the square. It gives us students strength to see the square everywhere.”

And so 2 a.m. turned into 3 a.m. as I slowly walked down the line of giant paintings. I walked the line of thousands and thousands of red squares, alongside other people, without disruption. In the quiet of the late night/early morning, we whispered our appreciation and pointed at particularly delightful renditions of red squares. I kept thinking, this is a magical time to be alive, when anything is possible and everything is surprising: from a downtown with the streets held by people in rebellion to a neighborhood with the streets filled with the color of resistance.

radical chalk art

Cindy Milstein is a board member of the Institute for Anarchist Studies–focused on projects such as the new Lexicon pamphlet series, the IAS/AK Anarchist Interventions book series, and curating anarchist theory tracks–and author of Anarchism and Its Aspirations (IAS/AK Press, 2010) and the forthcoming collaboration with Erik Ruin Paths toward Utopia: Graphic Explorations of Everyday Anarchism (PM Press, 2012). She has been overly engaged in numerous collective projects aimed at creating autonomous spaces of resistance, reconstruction, and education, including most recently, Occupy Philly, Station 40 in San Francisco, and before that, Black Sheep Books in Montpelier, Vermont. She also taught at the “anarchist summer school” called the Institute for Social Ecology, and has long been involved in community organizing and social/political movements from below. Her essays appear in several anthologies, including Realizing the Impossible: Art against Authority and Globalize Liberation. When not at home, she travels (frequently) to do public speaking and popular education around topics related to anarchism, direct democracy, anticapitalism, and other political interventions, to encourage critical thought and prefigurative politics, and to do indie media as a sort of anarchist political correspondent/commentator, such as right now in relation to the maple spring in Montreal. More of her writing can be found at her blog, Outside the Circle.



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[-] 5 points by Bighead1883 (285) 6 years ago

May Montreal spread to all countries so as this crocked financial system is sorted out properly,once and for all.Solidarity.

[-] 3 points by OccNoVi (415) 6 years ago

Let the crooked banks go bankrupt.

Any "bail out" money is better spent financing new lending institutions, starting from the ground up.

[-] 1 points by Bighead1883 (285) 6 years ago

So true!OccNoVi.Better a new thought out creation than a patched up clunker.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago


B. Dolan ft. Toki Wright, Jasiri X, Buddy Peace, Sage Francis



[-] 2 points by Bighead1883 (285) 6 years ago

You just do not understand any of this,do you Growup5?


[-] 4 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

I admire the people of Montreal who are taking part in these protests. Most of us here have a lot to learn from them, and I hope we do before it's too late. Solidarity.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

I was arrested in the town I grew up in (Livermore) for not having an ID

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 6 years ago

Thats a good video and a cool song. Too bad you won't hear it on the radio.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

I put it up on the gLee forum

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

I protested a/s Sargeant Thomas at Wall St. He is a big intimidating dude, and he really challenges the police with his words. He makes my 6'2", 230 frame look small beside him.


[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago



[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

I ran someone over in the road faking injuries the other day

no I didn't

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 6 years ago

What does that have to do with Occupy? Protesting Nato, G8, and WTO has been a traveling show for years. People are protesting all kinds of things everywhere nowadays. Maybe you just don't like protestors?


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

San Diego welfare work $2/hr to able bodied road hazards ..vague work ..

in San Diego , we don't slave for a wage. the Wage slave's you.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 6 years ago

Occupy is not responsible for people that tag along for whatever reason. Just deal with it and stop whining.


[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

in 1952 income tax for the top bracket was 92%


[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 6 years ago

Don't be such a baby.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

it's bank interest which moves the money out of the system

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

Yes, the police did.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 6 years ago

I hope we learn not to say " f**k the police" and instead direct our animosity in a positive way toward the source of the injustice.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

Yes that would be the ideal, but once you have seen a fellow protester screwed with, and had his/her face slammed to the pavement, that is not so easy advice to take.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 6 years ago

Somehow, the civil rights marchers of the 60's managed to control their mouths and direct their actions at the flames of injustice, while receiving much greater brutality from the police. Without retaliation, always turning the other cheek, proved to be the greater weapon. I admire them immensely for it, and they should be held up as our example.

Every time a student or Occupy protester steps over the line and hurls insults, throws objects, or blocks access, what is the perception of the average person watching on TV? Not positive. Even I see it as negative even though I support the protest in principle.

It's difficult enough to wake up and engage an apathetic nation to the injustice occurring throughout, but to justify our fellow protester's behavior, when it is also unjust makes us the very hypocrites that we so detest.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

Yes I give the people who partcipated in the Civil Rights movement an enormous amount of credit for having the discipline to not fight back, despite merciless beatings, and worse. They also definitely did break laws with unsanctioned marches, not moving to the back of the bus, sitting in whites-only restaurants, and the Freedom Rides, to name just a few. And there were also riots all through the 60s. Undoubtedly these would have continued and grown if King weren't successful.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 6 years ago

Not moving to the back of the bus, sitting down at diners, registering to vote, were all directed right at the source of injustice. Exactly what non violent resistance should be. Breaking unjust laws that are related to a general unjust social condition. In this case, racial segregation.

If parts of Occupy break just laws, what is the purpose? Throwing objects? Blocking access? Damaging property? Which of these has pointed out an unjust law? Our battle is not with the police. We are battling corporate and government corruption.

On the news tonight I saw people breaking windows in small businesses downtown. Those people might as well get paid by the 1% for the job they are doing. I can't think of a more effective way to defeat everything Occupy has accomplished.

The laws we should break? Those that are related to corporate and government corruption. Laws that limit our right to peacefully assemble and protest. Laws that take our wealth and spend it on endless and unjust wars that enrich corporations. Laws that limit our right to have an equal say in electing our representatives such as Citizens United. Laws that favor large corporations by bailing them out when they fail.

Sorry to go ballistic, it's not directed just at you, but to all of the people who just don't realize the negative effect of their improperly directed resistance. I don't want a few to take away what so many have worked for.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 6 years ago

So how does one go about breaking these laws you cited:

"Laws that take our wealth and spend it on endless and unjust wars that enrich corporations. Laws that limit our right to have an equal say in electing our representatives such as Citizens United. Laws that favor large corporations by bailing them out when they fail."

I can see not paying taxes breaks the first example and the last. That also puts us in jail with no one caring either way. How about the others?

BTW - I agree with you on not destroying local property, windows, storefronts, etc.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 6 years ago

Not paying taxes or limiting taxes paid is the most direct and effective form of protest we have. Voices of protest can be ignored. Loss of tax revenue can not. "No taxation without representation" is well known revolution era slogan that is just as pertinent today as it was 236 years ago. Cindy Sheehan, the Mother who lost her son in Afghanistan, has not paid her income tax since 2005 in protest.

Citizens United should be fought by protesting every message that it's dollars buys. Boycott the businesses that unfairly finance political elections. Send back all campaign lit as returned mail. Protest TV stations that run their ads.

Laws that inhibit our right to assemble should be fought by assembling at the very spots where they are illegal. If we are not allowed to protest on the steps of the Virginia courthouse, let our arrests expose the hypocrisy of our freedoms lost there.

What would Martin do? That is what we should do.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 6 years ago

That may work on the local, city and state levels but not on the Federal level. Taxes do not support Federal expenditure on the Federal level.

So if we don't pay our local property taxes our homes will get sold at auction for back taxes. The county wins. Boycotting the businesses that fund elections might work on the short term, but most people need those products in todays world, face it...we are not self sufficient which makes boycotts like that breakdown.

I agree about mass assemblies in civil disobedience to protest laws against illegal marching. Being arrested in that context works. Losing homes only for the county to gain anyway doesn't.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 6 years ago

I was not specific in which taxes to withhold. Withholding Federal income taxes will curtail federal expenditures, the source of funding for the wars that we are against.

Withholding state and local taxes would serve no purpose since they are not responsible for the funding the wars.

Boycotting always works if we are united and determined. MLK used it successfully in the Montgomery bus boycott in 1955. Ghandi used it in the Salt boycott in 1930.

There is an alternate source for everything. No single company is essential. I changed my buying habits and rarely buy anything new that is name brand. In 20 years of using a computer I have only bought one new Microsoft software disk. The rest are all used. I know we can effectively boycott any company we wish, I already do it.

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 6 years ago

I don't buy new as well and have altered my lifestyle since the 70's. MLK made salt. Local city ordinances are being used to stifle rights to assembly as with the city of Charlotte and the upcoming DNC. But I hear what you are saying.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 6 years ago

Glad to hear you also don't support the consumer lifestyle.

I wasn't aware of MLK also made salt. When was this?

Our liberties are under constant attack. Too many assume the Bill of Rights will protect our freedoms. They don't realize a piece of paper has no power in itself, it's the people who stand against injustice that protect our rights.

Like the seven people who recently stood up to the indefinite detention provision within the NDAA and had it overturned. The Constitution did nothing by itself, but a small group who spoke it's message did.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 6 years ago

I wasn't aware of MLK also made salt. When was this?

He didn't it was my error, apoligies. I was thinking of Ghandi and MLK in terms of boycotts and confused the two. My mistake.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

I do not support damaging property, or seeing anyone get hurt, but it is not always the protesters who instigate these clashes. When your very right to protest is thwarted by overly aggressive law enforcement, that' a problem. I also understand that some people who have been extremely hurt by the corrupt system that we live in are more prone to act out in negative ways, and that is something that we as a movement have to discourage. Throughout our history....the world's history though peaceful civil disobedience has been an accepted form of protesting a government, and its accomplices who have run rough-shod over peoples lives. So don't expect much compliance from us to an unjust system.


[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

"Oh, the humanity!" You've got that mixed up. You're thinking of the Hindenburg. People all over the world are suffering from the banker's corrupt dealings that could have only happened by having our polititians being bribed. So now we are asked to pay for THEIR misdealings in a plethora of ways. What's going on in Montreal, and much of the rest of Quebec is far more than a students revolt, but you would not know that from the corporate-owned news sources that you count on for your knowledge.


[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

If I were to only read, and listen to sound bites I could understand your point of view. But when you delve deeper into the causes of the world-wide recession; the corrupt dynamics behind neoliberalism, and the subsequent loss of people being able to affect government policy....you would not be able to have such a negative, albeit cutesy few lines to describe what has, and continues to play out in Quebec, and throughout the world. So just continue to be the Marlboro man, but be careful not to fall off your horse, as there may be no one to pick you up when you do.

And as far as those "poor oppressed Canadians:" No they are not, and they refused to be like the people here in the ten poorest states in this country, which by the way happen to be RED states. Hmmmm?


[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

Short obnoxious replies is what is to be expected from someone who has relied on sound bites from the corrupt corporate owned media for his information.

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 6 years ago

Shouldn't you be begging for another subsidy to wrap up your 5th year in Hispanic Studies? LOL.

Better choices before yet more subsidy. Your neighbors aren't asking a lot.

[+] -7 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

you hope to learn how to be more of a useful idiot.you should be ashamed of yourself.

[-] 3 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

We are getting nasty now, aren't we. What would you propose we do to fix this corrupt system??

[-] 1 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

when anything is acceptable a society get numbed to what's right and whats wrong. i am not the arbitor of that , but the msm has made just about anything o.k. in fact things are glorified , as long as you're on their side. take a look at t.v. and the social garbage that passes for entertainment.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

There is no other alternative for us than to mimic the protests in Montreal. The voting booth is a waste of time at this point. We must also reach out to the masses who still don't understand. I completely agree on "the social garbage" on tv.

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

more and more people do understand, thats why they're voting republican.

[-] 2 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

You've got to be kidding. Voting republican will only exacerbate our problems.

[-] 0 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

walker took wisconsin from a budget deficit to a surplus, and the people of his state thanked him for by re-electing him.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

Gee I thought Walker just fiddled with the books, made people forget the reason for the recession we are in, and made his neoliberal benefactors happier than pigs in shit.

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

union members befited from walker. thats why over 30% voted for him to remain in office. after walker removed the mandatory union dues deductions from their paychecks, membership dropped from 65+ thousand to below 30 thousand..

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

So over 70% of union members voted against Walker. Did the drop in union membership coincide with him taking their collective bargaining agreements away from them? If not, there had to be some other dynamic that I am unaware of.

[-] 0 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

you dont know that 100% of union members voted. but of those that did vote, 33% voted for walker. and, when walker made union dues voluntary, membership of over 65,000 went down to less thyat 30, 000. they didnt pay their dues. they CHOSE to keep their own money for themselves.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

would they stay in the union without paying dues

collective bargaining has nothing to do with union dues

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

After Walker defanged the union, I could see that happening. The fact remains though the wealth disparity in this country is at an 84 year high. It resembles that of a banana republic. What is your solution to this, or do you not see this as a problem especially since this corrupt dynamic has been brought on by a rigged system?

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

the middle class has lost a huge portion of their money due to the housing collapse thanks to reno, clinton and dodd -frank.get rid of obama, the epa, and all the anti business regulations and the usa can recover. the obama plan is to kill the private sector.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 6 years ago

Yes the middle class has lost a lot ot their money thanks to all of the corrupt BANKERS, and politicians from both parties. The lack of regulations that the lobbyists fought hard for were the cause. Had those regs been in place, starting with the Glass Steagall Act, none of the irresponsible behavior would have been able to take place. And you would know that if your research went beyond The NY Post, or that fat, hate-filled, pill-poppin', radio tak-show monger Limbaugh.

[-] 0 points by DK504 (6) from Bay St. Louis, MS 6 years ago

They are voting republican because of the substandard education they have received over the past generation. The less intelligent the more likely a person will vote against their own best interest.

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

republicans do their own research. they dont depend on biased media or biased "teachers". the sub standard educations that are being received by the left wing teachers.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Das "right". FLAKESnews, Limbaugh and TV preachers is all they need.

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

i do NOT watch or listen to the news. I do my own research.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

No one ever admits they listen to that crap.

Judging by the quality of your posts, you should improve your investigative skills.

Here's one simple question. Can you give one simple answer?

Do the (R)epelican'ts strive for small government?

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

I have no reason to lie to you. It's CONSERVATIVES that strive for small govt.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

conservatives would want to preserve the government

to conserve traditions

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Just not very good at answering questions then?

I've found that to be a pervasive problem among the (R)epelican't/conse(R)eavative/libe(R)tarians.

They are like political chameleons.

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

If you were not a brainwashed dummy you would be able to tell the difference.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

There's only ONE way they ever vote.

Can you guess what that way is?

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 6 years ago

I gave you an answer. CONSERVATIVES strive for small govt.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

They're all the same thing.

They haven't been any different for many years.

They just tossed in some teabaggers for bad measure.

Are you perhaps one of those?

[-] 3 points by OccNoVi (415) 6 years ago

Compare/contrast with what happens with Blockupy and the Frankfurt Polizei.

There's none of this "FFFF the police" stuff.

The police, there, support free speech and guard the protest marchers.

No helmets.

And yes, if an agent provocateur (aka "black bloc") spin-off goes for vandalism or arson then it's dealt with ASAP. Burning cars like the Rome 2011 provo action is not what anybody wants.

[-] 4 points by aaronparr (597) 6 years ago

Agreed. We need to get the police on our side. The "Fuck the Police" message is just unproductive noise.

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 6 years ago

Occupy Nonviolence succeeds with the same program. that is how the Civil Rights Movement marches went down.

It's not rocket science.

[-] 3 points by aaronparr (597) 6 years ago

you are preaching to the choir

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 6 years ago

Occupy Nonviolence reached out to NYPD and when a liaison was set up, the rant-and-rave element of the GA screamed that such a thing couldn't be permitted.

Thankfully the GA is no more.

[-] 1 points by aaronparr (597) 6 years ago

I'm sorry that didn't work out. I'm not in NYC so don't know the politics or the GA there.

BUT I don't think it good that the GA was gone. If the issue was the typical black-bloc tactics or the paranoid ravings of those that have been marginalized there whole life - I think the solution is to get more regular people to participate.

I suspect there is a fear of that as it can be termed as loss of control to the "rest of us". But whatever. This movement belongs to all of us, not just the most radical.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 6 years ago

More shills than occupiers.

An astonishing percentage of out-of-work lawyers....

Any group that does not control membership is defenseless against rightie scams.


[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Great article covering a moment in time of great spirit - unity - the people saying we will not let you leave us out of our process - this is our society.

[-] 1 points by RHytonen (12) from Pennsboro, WV 6 years ago

I draw the line when you mess with REAL racing.

I'm a stone Progressive Liberal Socialist Commie, FAR to the left of Obama, Reid and Pelosi,
and as anti-corporatist as they come;

But please - mess with NASCRAP but NOT F1. It's my one pleasure in crushingly poverty-ridden, WV retirement. Lucky we can get it streamed for free b/c we gave up our DirecTV two months ago, and now watch Rachel, Chris, Melissa, etc. a day late, online - and listen to Press & Stephanie every AM on online radio streams.

I also race karts (vintage) and absolutely refuse to talk politics in that arena. Politics do NOT belong everywhere, not even to a practically full time zealot like me. (Read my tweets as RHytonen) The future is important, but I still have a life in real time. F1 is THE exception to capitalism being ALL bad, that proves the rule. Protest the Police State, banksters, Wall Street, BigOil/Gas/Coal, Monsanto, and 4ProfitMedicine; and I'm out there with you where possible (old broke & feeble.) -BUT LEAVE F1 ALONE. (Arms crossed.)