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Actions in Solidarity with Egypt

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 3:17 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

As the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces escalates the use of force on protesters at Tahrir, we call for support and solidarity for our brothers and sisters of Tahrir Square. We also call for support and solidarity with our egyptian american brothers and sisters. There will be actions planned so long as the crackdowns continue, starting with a protest today at 5pm in NYC at the Egyptian Consulate (corner of 2nd ave and 58th st) organized by the EAC. There will also be protests tomorrow at 5:30 pm, at Justin Herman Plaza in San Francisco CA.

The military "interim" government is now showing its true colors: people were already worrying about the nomination of 15 new governors without elections, all tied to the military, with no representation, the false flag actions ordered by the army against copts, and the repression against protesters. The Egyptian civilian government, under the authority of the military administration, has submitted its resignation to the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, the administration which serves as Egypt's collegiate head of state since the fall of Mubarak in February.

Protest poster in arabic saying: Egyptians want the SCAF out!

Poster in arabic, saying "Egyptians want the SCAF out!"

Using the precedent of police brutality in Germany and America against the occupations and the take the squares movements, Egyptian state television now proclaims "We saw the firm stance the US took against OWS people & the German govt against green protesters to secure the state" (source). They have already brutally arrested hundreds, wounded 1700, and murdered 30 protesters.

We call on the people of the world to show their solidarity with the people of Egypt in these moments, fighting against an administration that is but the continuation of the Mubarak era, only without Mubarak at the helm.

140 Comments

140 Comments


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[-] 10 points by gmxusa (274) 2 years ago

The US government is a Corporate oligarchy that only gives the illusion that it is a republic, and acts solely in the interests of Business and Lobbies. From its expansive colonial roots, through slavery and exploited labor and abuse of its veterans (Google: Bonus vets) to its ruthless and brutal history of pillaging the planet's resources, using members of our military as armed thugs, the United State was and is a murderous criminal enterprise.

Hundreds of people are dying every day all over our planet because the corporate controlled empire continues expanding wars for profit. The two party system imposed on us ensures total control through a lobby-controlled Congress that does the bidding of its benefactors instead of the bidding of the electorate.

For a look at the kind of people who inhabit our hallowed offices and offices of the Business and financial institutions, the real power within and outside America, I suggest this book, as it explains a lot. A review here:

http://www.ugdsb.on.ca/uploadedFiles/cddhs/teachers/stewart/Review%20of%20Snakes%20in%20Suits.pdf

Only by ridding OUR Houses of Congress of these clinical psychopaths and replacing them with a Congress that will represent, WE, The People, can we expect changes that will benefit us instead of war mongers and profiteers.

In the case of Egypt, the US gives the military in power $2 Billion/year and weapons, to make sure that country is friendly to Israel. And it gives $3 Billion/year to Israel to help kill/remove the Palestinians from their land.

Egyptians will only be free when the American people take care of their own corrupted government.

Egyptian political activist Ahmed Salah talks about their regime and support from the west. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw0x60AO4To

[-] 3 points by hiddenwheel (83) from Newton, MA 2 years ago

Terrific link!

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[-] 7 points by meewaan (8) 2 years ago

If the tear gas supplied by the American government is the main cause of death in Tahrir Square, families of those who has lost their lives in the last 3 days are entitled to compensation from US government and the manufacturer.

We can remember Saddam Hussein gassed people in his own country.

There should be an international ban for using such lethal gas by the Police / military against its people. . Any politicians/military leaders who sanction the purchase and deployment of such gas should be brought to face trial of crime against humanity. This is a war crime.

[-] 3 points by OWSnewswhore (19) 2 years ago

According this report, the answer is yes, Tear Gas can kill: http://www.marcowenjones.byethost2.com/?p=326

QUOTE

Of the approximately 40 people who have died so far, the following are thought to have died from tear gas inhalation; Zainab Hassan al-Juma (47) , Sayad Adnan Sayed Hassan (44), Zainab al-Tajer, Mohammed Farhan (6), Isa Mohammed Ali Abdulla (71) & Khadija Mirza Al-Abdulhai (50). Here we can see that those killed by tear gas are not just the very young or the very old. Indeed, tear gas seems to be responsible for the death of people of all ages and both sexes. I’ll stop short of saying it affects all demographics, since I think it is safe to say that most of the dead are neither the rich nor the privileged. So why is a supposedly ‘non-lethal’ technology so deadly. Well there are a number of reasons – including the misuse of tear gas, the fact that tear gas manufacturers have a poor quality control system, the variable concentrations used by different companies and also the fact that CS (2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile) is a potentially lethal chemical.

END QUOTE

As with any such chemical, if you get enough in your lungs, and you do not get enough oxygen, you can die. Especially if you are in a confined space.

Read Wikipedia too.

READ READ READ RESEARCH!

[-] 1 points by Durka223 (38) 2 years ago

In that case it would be the suffocation that is the killer, not the particular chemicals in the tear gas. Nevertheless i see your point.

EDIT: Your source states as follows: "the following are thought to have died from tear gas inhalation", keyword being thought. Not proven.

[-] 2 points by OWSnewswhore (19) 2 years ago

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/bt/bt_fact_tear.shtml

"Long-lasting exposure (over an hour) or exposure to a large dose of tear gas, especially in an enclosed setting, may cause severe effects such as:

Blindness Glaucoma (a serious eye condition that can lead to blindness) Death due to serious chemical burns to the throat and lungs Respiratory (breathing) failure possibly resulting in death

The deadly effects of tear gas would only occur following exposure to a dosage several hundred times greater than the amount of tear gas typically used by law enforcement officials for crowd control."

Death, dude. That is right from the horses mouth. Yeah yeah, something about "several hundred times greater..." but "typically."

Do you want me to continue to find references to the seriousness of Tear Gas? And so far I used two Google searches.

BTW, where is your research? Just being negative don't cut it.

Ah, shit.... PLONK.

[-] 1 points by Durka223 (38) 2 years ago

After 15 minutes of searching i can only find 1 cause of death CONFIRMED as the CS gas used in tear gas.

That in no way constitutes its lethality.

"Do you want me to continue to find references to the seriousness of Tear Gas?" No, because it's obvious that tear gas is serious. I really do not understand what you are arguing because we know tear gas causes irritations to the facial region and throat. If it was not 'serious' it would not disperse crowds.

"Long-lasting exposure (over an hour) or exposure to a large dose of tear gas, especially in an enclosed setting, may cause severe effects such as:"

I'll try something anecdotal:

Long lasting exposure to a large dose of carbon monoxide in an enclosed setting will also cause death. In fact, it's estimated by the CDCP to result in 500 deaths per year http://www.roanoke.com/news/special/wb/79904.

So is using a barbecue lethal? No. (carbon monoxide is emitted from incomplete combustion of carbon compounds in the coal)

And if we compare the death rate, it would seem barbecues, wood fires, stoves etc are much more lethal than tear gas. But is using them lethal? No.

Tear gas is NOT lethal. Calling it lethal is fear mongering and disinformation. Plain and simple.

[-] 2 points by OWSnewswhore (19) 2 years ago

picky picky

Even Pepper Spray can cause death. "Cause of death suffocation" is nice but no pillow. If they were not Tear Gassed they would not have suffocated.

"Pepper spray use has been suspected of contributing to a number of deaths that occurred in police custody. In mid-1990s, the U.S. Department of Justice cited nearly 70 fatalities linked to pepper-spray use, following on a 1995 report compiled by the American Civil Liberties Union of California. The ACLU report cited 26 suspicious deaths; it’s important to note that most involved pre-existing conditions such as asthma. But it’s also important to note a troubling pattern."

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2011/11/21/about-pepper-spray/

The entire world is based on "thought to," "alleged," "reports of," etc. It is good journalism. And you can't just submiss it. Shoot. Now I'll have to do some more research for you.

[-] 1 points by Durka223 (38) 2 years ago

Journalists use those phrases when the coroner has established an alternate cause of death or an unknown cause of death. For instance if heart attacks were to result. The cause of that particular heart attack would not necessarily be noted. It's 'good journalism' because it is the correct thing to say, ie, it has not been proven.

"As with any such chemical, if you get enough in your lungs, and you do not get enough oxygen, you can die. Especially if you are in a confined space. "

Such as carbon monoxide. So we should ban barbecues because they emit carbon monoxide? You are talking about suffocation. This is however irrelevant, because i am replying to your comment, not a proven fact.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

And the tear gas causes the suffocation, so the tear gas IS at fault. Saying that it isn't and that suffocation is the culprit but the tear gas isn't is so illogical and dishonest.

[-] 1 points by Durka223 (38) 2 years ago

That point is debatable, since there are no confirmed cases of reports of suffocation by tear gas.

"In that case it would be the suffocation that is the killer, not the particular chemicals in the tear gas. Nevertheless i see your point."

The "nevertheless i see your point" is directed towards the idea behind your comment, ie, it would be the tear gas that caused it. However like i have said before, this is irrelevant as it has never been proven.

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[-] 1 points by egy (5) 2 years ago

The unknown gas used is Tabun, it is classified as a weapon of mass destruction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabun_(nerve_agent)

The guys in Tahrir is documenting every thing even the bombs empty cans with the countries and companies that used to made it.

[-] 1 points by Durka223 (38) 2 years ago

Tear gas can not kill. Saddam Hussein used sarin nerve gas and mustard gas on his people, both incredibly lethal agents.

[-] 1 points by OWSnewswhore (19) 2 years ago

Reported to have used VX and cyanide too, known as the Halabja Genocide.

They were Kurds. And no one did anything to stop it. The U.S. was happily exporting tons of rice and wheat to Iraq under good relations by the White House.

(Not that I support this, mind you, just adding some more data to the story.)

Read Wikipedia on the subject. This is also interesting: http://hnn.us/articles/862.html

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 2 years ago

looking at history most Western countries should pay a lot of compensation to lots of countries, if you ask me....

"In this possibly terminal phase of human existence, democracy and freedom are more than just ideals to be valued - they may be essential to survival." -Noam Chomsky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YftlB3AxBws

Also, for those who missed it, here´s Chomsky at Occupy Boston: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZbNT62aprM (q&a at 28min)

solidarity and greetings struggleforfreedom

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[-] 0 points by talkinboutarevolution (54) 2 years ago

I didn't know tear gas can kill. If this is true, you are right.

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[-] 4 points by tsdevi (307) 2 years ago

The December issue of Mother Jones accurately reports on the grim realities that American families are facing these days. The economic deprivation that we are experiencing today has been in the making for decades and it is at its worst today. As we herald in a "new" administration that aims to make war with yet another country, Iran, the people of the U.S. are being beaten, peppered sprayed, and arrested for demonstrating against economic injustice and the break down of Democracy. This is the history of the modern empire that is the United States. When will the madness end? Watch Democracy Now! and the interview with Seymour Hersh.

[-] 4 points by AmericanMachinist (24) 2 years ago

This IS The United States PEPPER Spray is excessive force here. We are the example to the world, we are supposed to be the greatest, freest country on the earth and we should act like it!

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

Pepper spray is not excessive force. Water hoses, German Shepherds, live ammo, that's excessive force. You guys are just wimps. Let me guess, the police did not provide you with a choice of mineral or spring water and didn't consider the needs of the lactose intolerant either. The maniacs!

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

Pepper spray is not fucking hot sauce.

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

Its not live ammo, either.

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[-] 4 points by cleasby (9) 2 years ago

We went down to Zuccotti Park last night. The movement is alive and well minus tents and the kitchen. The police state is also alive and unwell. It was eye-opening to see what has happened to a real democratic movement in this country; yet our government promotes “Corporate Democracy” in Syria, Egypt, Lybia and tries to kill true democracy here. Maybe real democracy is too dangerous because no one... is “in control” and consensus must be met. Point being …..WE SHALL OVER COME, time and responsible thinking is as powerful as LOVE anywhere on the globe!!

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[-] 4 points by civildissent (6) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Solidarity from Portland. Wake Up America it is a new dawn. This is a new era the Information Age. We are all the same, are we not?

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[-] 3 points by mad (13) 2 years ago

Just came back from Tahrir now.. Thank you for your support..... 2nd wave of the revolution is coming all over, and this time we will not be leave Tahrir before all our demands are achieved .... Otherwise, a very valid option is the removal of SCAF .... very soon, it shall be our ONLY option...

Pray for us ...

[-] 2 points by cat7757 (18) 2 years ago

I am a combat veteran. I am sick - really sick of all of these self serving politicians. Too many of these politicians are nothing but a collection of candy-ass silver spoon self-serving boys (Cantor and others). They call themselves patriots but is nothing hanging between their legs. I love you members of OWS, Thank you for standing up for our country and in doing what is right, what is just. Love all of you!!

[-] 1 points by Satyr000 (86) 2 years ago

No matter what happens, never give in, never give up.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2821) 2 years ago

mad: Please remind SCAF that the military must be subservient to the people or it would be a military dictatorship instead of a democracy. Many of the Egyptian Army Officers who trained with the U.S. should know what this really means. U.S. Presidents fired 5- and 4-star generals: Truman fired MacArthur and Obama fired McChrystal. There was no fuss about those. Egypt had and may still have a real chance for relatively peaceful transition to democracy. It was and can still be a foremost leader amongst the Arab states without going through the gory convulsions. I really hope that Egypt can become the sorely needed star of freedom for the Arab world. May the Supreme Creator watch over, protect, and bless you all!

Regarding the U.S. military aid to Egypt, the purpose was to shore up the Egyptian military to guard against Israel to establish peace. It was not meant to be a means of oppression against the Egyptian people. In these budgetary times in the U.S. (super-committee hunting for > $1.2 trillion savings from the next decade's federal budget and has failed), our Congress would be very receptive to cutting foreign aids, especially if the original purpose of the aid were defiled.

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[-] 3 points by JosephCouture (45) 2 years ago

A homeless man asked me to give you a message. He would like to be there with you at the Occupy protests, but he is kind of busy at the moment. “I’m just trying to stay alive,” he told me over and over.

Read his story and the story of his friends here: www.josephcouture.com “Preoccupied In Hell”

[-] 1 points by galaxyscout (6) 2 years ago

I read some of your stories and they are very beautiful.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

You have a way with words. You should try to submit the next one of these as a letter to the editor for a major newspaper.

[-] 3 points by craigd89 (32) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Praise boss when morning work bells chime. Praise him for bits of overtime. Praise him, whose wars we love to fight, Praise him, FAT LEECH AND PARASITE. Amen.

[-] 3 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

What This Means for Americans

Normally, a person uninterested in global solidarity might say, "This is Egypt, what does it have to do with us?"

However, many of Egypt's problems relate to the fact that the armed forces can use overwhelming force to keep people in line. In a normal society, if the military force drains the economy and impoverishes the nation, the military budget too will decline, and the people can change their government.

This is where the United States, and ourselves, get involved. No matter how bad a job the military rule does in Egypt, they are still at full strength because of funding coming from the United States, around $2B annually for the past 30 years.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/29/us-egypt-usa-aid-idUSTRE70S0IN20110129

As Americans, because the government is using our money on our behalf, it becomes our responsibility to speak up. The US Government should be using the aid money to help build the economy of Egypt, or if you do not believe in foreign aid, then it should butt out entirely. Either solution is better than subsidizing military oppression.

We should be contacting our own Representatives, Senators, and President to re-evaluate our Egypt military-aid policy.

[-] 3 points by mordred (1) 2 years ago

This rogue corporate government has a long history of blatantly committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, without fear of retribution or justice- they've never been held accountable for such crimes as Agent Orange in Vietnam, depleted uranium in Iraq , the spread of mines and clustermines around the world, etc., on and on..What makes you think they'll be held accountable for the new toxic tear gas??

All power to the Egyptian people, though!!

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[-] 2 points by Kathleen (35) 2 years ago

U.S. teargas in Tahrir– headline. U.S. teargas in Palestine–circular file by Philip Weiss on November 20, 2011

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/11/us-teargas-in-tahrir-is-a-story-but-not-in-palestine.html

Egyptian forces have used U.S.-made teargas against peaceful protesters--CSI gas, made by Combined Systems Inc., in the U.S. These photos show as much, and Salon reports: "Egypt uses U.S. teargas on pro-democracy crowds...By Avi Asher-Schapiro":

This is not the first time CSI ‘s products have been used against Egyptian citizens.  During Egypt’s January revolution,  CSI tear gas was employed by the Mubarak regime against demonstrators in Tahrir Square.

Once again, a mainstream reporter fails to connect repression in one part of the Middle East w/repression of Palestinians.

Adalah-NY documented Israel's use of CSI gas in Palestine against peaceful protesters, specifically in Bil'in, with lethal consequences. And it showed that CSI's HQ in Jamestown, PA flies an Israeli flag. Adalah also connected its use in Palestine to Egypt and Tunisia, in this op-ed piece and in this press release.

[-] 2 points by Justice4all (133) 2 years ago

At least there will always be many job openings in these other countries for these fascist cops who cant control themselves here. They can always get their rocks off by pummeling people searching for equality and justice in foreign lands. Forget the pepper spray guys--over there we can slaughter innocents with no repercussions!! SEIG HEIL!

[-] 2 points by Kathleen (35) 2 years ago

The Egyptian protesters have been an inspiration to people around the world. Their demand that Mubarak be held accountable for crimes against humanity another inspiration. Americans need to be taking notes. The Bush administration officials who lied the US into Iraq and are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and injuries continue to fill our air waves with more lies and spin spinning their spin.

SCAF Out.. Peaceful peaceful...the whole world is watching. So so sad..the injuries and deaths. So sad so unnecessary

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

It sound grim

perhaps an Egyptian theme for the thanks giving parade

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[-] 1 points by perennialjeff (1) 2 years ago

As a left-handed person, I appreciate the fact that the raised fist on the poster is the left hand.

[-] 1 points by egy (5) 2 years ago

The Egyptian police and SCAF brutality, guess the made of all these bullets: http://youtu.be/T9JmBTotCWQ

[-] 1 points by jls (13) 2 years ago

RE: the OWS move to send a "delegation" to Egypt to help monitor their elections...at a cost of $29,000. THIS is the very thing that is beginning to turn off quite a few of us, who are otherwise absolute supporters. The movement is in its infant stages here in America, with a HUGE list of things to focus on here, and it's already looking to spend money sending people overseas to help the Egyptians?!? WHAT A F'N JOKE!

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

"The fighting in darkened streets, suffused with tear gas and eerily lit by the flashing lights of police cars and floodlights of armored personnel carriers, seemed to stand as a metaphor for a political transition that has careened into deep uncertainty just days before elections that were supposed to anchor the shift from military to civilian rule. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/24/world/middleeast/egypt-protesters-and-police-clash-for-fifth-day.html

[-] 1 points by shreepal (9) 2 years ago

"occupy" movement can win only if: 1. Your goal is clear 2. You make it a global movement 3. You have a "global coordinating committee" in place 4. Win allegiance of 99% 5. Launch civil disobediance and non-cooperation against governments 6. Call armed forces to take the side of the just cause of 99%.

[-] 1 points by alaashukrallah (2) 2 years ago

What we are learning everyday is that our struggle is one all over the world. That is the only solution. The continuation of the unlimited power and control of the financial oligarachies with their armies and police and internal secturity over the people of the world will only lead to the impoverishment of the 99% of the people, more unemployement, secterian wars to ensure their power by dividing us, our struggle is one and the only hope for humanity and our planet.

[-] 1 points by OWSnewswhore (19) 2 years ago

Can Tear Gas Kill? I spent about two hours searching the Web for the answer. And the answer is... No. But, the answer is... Yes.

I should not have to say this, but when one finds a post on the Web one must look for the source first. Too many Sites simply cut and paste others' work, our integrate a few "facts" from the source as their own. Many Sites too, simply believe a source and editorialize around a "fact" or two from it.

One must also remember that first reports of any major news even will have inaccuracies; eyewitnesses can get things wrong; reporters can make mistakes. It can take days or even weeks for accurate info to float up above the rest.

It must me said also, that some sources will coverup the truth (police/military sources for example) and that some will deliberate exaggerate or even falsify statement for their own gain. Here are a couple of sources that say no.

H2G2 -"CS Gas" http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/A655517

"One of the main advantages of CS is that the effects wear off in only a few minutes if the affected person is exposed to fresh air. There are no known long-term effects of exposure, and there is no known case of a death due to CS exposure anywhere in the world."

In this case they provide no links/references. There is no authors name. The Site is somewhat of a Wiki. This look to be a case of cutting and pasting. No bother to track the source down. We can just use it as one of the "No" answers.

The other "No" answer comes from an angry tone. First, he is weaseling words; "scientific literature?" Who goes there to find reports of death on the streets? (Note 1)

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[-] 1 points by OWSnewswhore (19) 2 years ago

The Elder of Ziyon - "Lying about tear gas deaths" http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/01/lying-about-tear-gas-deaths-lisa.html

"The facts are clear. No one can find a single documented case in scientific literature of anyone dying from CS tear gas outdoors, ever. (I've been looking.) There are very, very few documented cases of CS tear gas killing people even indoors, at concentrations and over time periods that are hundreds of times more potent than any possible outdoor scenario.

"Anyone bringing studies of isolated tear gas-related deaths of people were stuck indoors with high concentrations for long time periods as some type of proof that Abu Rahma [sic] was killed by tear gas in fresh air is, knowingly, lying."

He does admit of (very few) documented cases of deaths indoors, but just brushes them off as the person who allegedly died with a face and a name is a Palestinian woman named Jawaher Abu Rahmen, who died on the street.

The case of Jawaher Abu Rahmen is a long one -- her two sons also died. In the end of my investigation I see that she probably died in the hospital of other complications. However she was brought into the hospital for CS gas exposure, but probably did not die from the CS.

So in that "journalists" view no one ever died of CS gas -- outdoors -- which outweighs any people who may have died indoors from CS gas.

Here is the next "No." A report on Waco.

WACO Report - by Prof. Dr. Uwe Heinrich

"There are no reports on human death related to CS exposure."

Well, that about sums it up! But there is more...

"Based on the available data on toxic and lethal effects of the CS and considering the worst exposure scenario at Waco, there is a distinct possibility that this kind of CS exposure can significantly contribute to or even cause lethal effects. This statement only holds true, however, if the inhabitants were not able to leave such a worst exposure scenario despite the very irritating and burning effects of CS or were not able to protect themselves sufficiently by wearing a gas mask."

"This means that, only if the inhabitants of the Mount Carmel residence were not able to leave the rooms in which such high concentrations of CS occurred, would the CS exposure possibly contribute to the deaths of some of the Branch Davidians."

And then they all burned down. Tsk. Tsk. So, they could have bean some CS gas deaths, but we will never know.

Now, there were many conflicts in the Jawaher Abu Rahmah -- just as there is with anything between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Here is an example of more CS related deaths with many links and sources. (They are for the boycotting of Israel though.)

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[-] 1 points by OWSnewswhore (19) 2 years ago

Adalah-NY - "Tear gas death triggers mobilization against Israel’s lethal tear gas" http://adalahny.org/press-releases-other/1-21-11-update-tear-gas-death-triggers-mobilization-against-israel-s-lethal-tear-gas

"Jawaher’s brother Bassem Abu Rahmah was murdered when he was shot by an Israeli soldier directly in the chest with an extended range CSI extended range tear gas canister in April 2009. In March 2009, an Israel soldier shot Tristan Anderson, an American citizen, in the head during a demonstration in Ni'ilin with a CSI extended range tear gas canister leaving him partially handicapped and suffering slight cognitive damage. Both cases were thoroughly documented by the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem. In a September, 2010 report, The Popular Struggle Coordination Committee noted that, “18 people have been directly shot at and hit by the high velocity [extended range] projectiles” in Bil’in and Ni’ilin alone. Also severely injured was Bil'in resident Khamis Abu Rahmah who “suffered a fractured skull and brain hemorrhage." Another US citizen, 21-year-old Emily Henochowicz, lost her left eye when an Israeli soldier fired an aluminum tear gas canister directly at her, also possibly manufactured by CSI, striking her face during a West Bank protest in May 2010. The initials CTS, an acronym for Combined Tactical Systems and a brand name of CSI, can be found on many canisters used by the Israeli military.

"B’Tselem reported in an April 2009 letter to the Israeli military’s Judge Advocate General that the direct firing of tear gas at protesters was common practice and violated both Israeli open-fire regulations and CSI product instructions. Nonetheless, the firing of tear gas canisters directly at protesters by Israeli soldiers has continued, and has been documented as recently as January 14, 2011.

"According to +972Mag, in September, 2010 an 18-month-old child died at a hospital after being overcome with tear gas in East Jerusalem. In addition, Ha’aretz Daily and The Forward have recently reported on a 2003 Israeli army study, which revealed that very high concentrations of the tear gas Israel uses could be lethal. Palestinian villages that protest Israeli land seizure are regularly engulfed in tear gas by the Israeli army, with unknown long-term health impacts for residents and their Israeli protest supporters."

So, there you have it. The answer to "Does Tear Gas kill is "Yes, it can."

Note 1 - All scientific data state that CS gas is lethal in high doases.

[-] 1 points by OWSnewswhore (19) 2 years ago

Here are a few more items for you to wonder if they are true or not.

Bahrain Center for Human Rights - "List of people killed in Bahrain since 14th February 2011"

4 children amongst the killed: Sayed Ahmad Saeed Shams (15 years), shotgun , Mohammed Farhan (6 years), suffocation from tear gas, Ali Jawad Alshaikh (14 years) shot with a tear gas canister from a close range, Ahmed Jaber AlQattan (16 years) shotgun.

4 deaths of women: Bahia Al-Aradi (51 years) shot in the head. 2 died due to suffocation with tear gas. One died because of Psychological intimidation few hours after raiding her house.

Among causes of deaths: Direct shots / Bullets (21), torture and beating to death (8), suffocation with tear gas (7)

Press TV -"Bahraini senior killed with teargas"

"Bahrain's leading Shia opposition group al-Wefaq said on Friday that Isa Abdullah, 71, died from asphyxiation inside his home in Maameer village after teargas fumes leaked into his house.

"His village Maameer was attacked heavily by teargas. His family called the emergency room but there was no response from Salmaniya hospital," Reuters quoted al-Wefaq leader Mattar Ibrahim Mattar as saying."

Bangkok Post - "Deadly clashes grip Cairo's Tahrir Square"

"Medics earlier reported four deaths, one from live fire and three from asphyxiation after tear gas was fired."

Committee to Protect Journalists - Lucas Mebrouk Dolega

"Dolega, 32, died from head injuries suffered while covering the massive January 14 protests that led to the ouster of President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali. The photographer was struck in the head by a tear gas canister fired by security forces, according to news reports He died "carrying out his passion and his job," his family said in a statement announcing his death."

Arab Times - "Tear-Gas claims Bahraini"

"A Bahraini man died overnight after being tear-gassed, the opposition said on Thursday, disputing the government version that he died of a blood disorder.

"Jawad Marhoun, 36, died from "excessive exposure to tear gas from a canister tossed into his parents home on Sept 10," the main Shiite opposition group Al-Wefaq said in a statement.

"Marhoun was rushed to hospital early on Tuesday "after his condition worsened," and he died at Manama’s central Salmaniya hospital on Wednesday evening, it said.

"The government, which cracked down on pro-democracy protesters in mid-March, said in a statement Marhoun died from "acute respiratory" problems as a result of sickle cell disease.

"The opposition said Sheikh was fatally wounded when he was struck in the face by a tear gas canister fired by security forces."

[bye]

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[-] 0 points by dave66 (5) 2 years ago

So, there's not enough of the "99%" unemployed? You're calling for more yet?

[-] 1 points by clarkt78 (2) 2 years ago

We are with you.

[-] 1 points by egy (5) 2 years ago

Thank you all for your support, I shared some useful information so guys can benefit from it.

Our deep support for the Occupy movement and wish you achieve all your goals.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 2 years ago

Stand together.

[-] 1 points by egy (5) 2 years ago

This gas does not cause sarin effect or sudden death. It cause dazziness , unawareness and paresis. If you know a solution or Chamecail formula that can help please provide or reply to the hash tag #Tahrir in Twitter.

This is urgent because this is the only gas that affect the people in Tahrir this hardly.

[-] 1 points by egy (5) 2 years ago

FROM EGYPT: VERY IMPORTAN!!! Do you have chemical experience or experience with chemical was weapons? PLEASE support the protestors in #Tahrir because the police is using strange gases against them.

Follow the updates and gase symptoms here: https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23tahrir

PLEASE SHARE FOR WORLD SUPPORT

[-] 1 points by Lmurguia7 (57) 2 years ago

Deep Thanksgiving to our mentors in Egypt. Moment by moment their determination bears fruit.

WE ARE WITH YOU !

From: All committed to the Occupy movement

[-] 1 points by farmerjohn (22) 2 years ago

Just a thought! Everyone complaints about the police brutality, and now the press. Since I'm not able to receive an answer, I would like to express my thought to this post. As I look at the map of the "THE REPUBLIC of The United States of America, and 90% or so, live in the CONSTITUTION FREE ZONE. Do we have any rights anymore. It appears that the CONSTITUTION does not apply. Please Comment. Thank you

[-] 1 points by hiddenwheel (83) from Newton, MA 2 years ago

For people's information the 2 billion a year in military aid to Egypt is not just an internet rumor. This is according to U.S. congressional research. Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, and Northrup Grumman all receive money from this taxpayer funded aid. It is in these companies interest to keep a real democracy from forming. It makes sense that the SCAF wants to keep U.S. corporations happy. They lobby congress and congress maintains the aid. SCAF tries to create tension Between Muslims and the Coptic Christian minority to justify their own existence and to maintain power. The U.S. Media tries to imply that if power is given directly to the people  a "militant" group will take over (Similar to what happened in Iran. One huge difference is that we live in a completely different world now. Information is disseminated too quickly for the same type of takeover to happen.) Egypt also controls the Suez canal. The most important canal for oil in the world. This is one of the justifications for this amount of aid, another is Egypts shared border with Israel. Again, the media creates fear for Israelis and Jewish Americans around the nebulous "threat" of "militant" groups. This is how the Israeli gov't justifies it's military aid to Egypt. Corporate interests all over the world would lose a lot of money if a civilian government that represented the will of the majority of Egyptians was allowed to form. Public corporations like Boeing have literally only one goal. To make money for their shareholders. Democracy in Egypt is a direct threat to this goal. This is what is meant when you hear the phrase "a threat to American interests"; not, "A threat to democracy". Egypt is a crystal clear example of the growing divide between capitalism and actual democracy.

[-] 1 points by masriya (1) 2 years ago

As an Egyptian American I am moved by the solidarity expressed with the supporters in Tahrir Sq. However I hope that the solidarity extends beyond simply supporting the protesters to really understanding the very complex political situation there.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

We've got contacts, people who have family in Egypt and other countries of the area like Lebanon which helps, we have (sadly limited) links with the protesters. We've also got notes on the situation.

[-] 1 points by Pharos (12) from 's-Hertogenbosch, NB 2 years ago

I was told that Egypt does not care about #OWS in a loudmouth way! After I had said the actions against #OWS justify violence in Egypt against protesters. Pres Obama must address the #OWS on Wall St in person + denounce the violence against ALL protesters OWS + Egyptian revolution (v 2.0)


My text was as follows; The forceful removal of OWS protesters has justified police action in Egypt to do the same. When anyone denounces what happens in Egypt now also denounces the voilence against OWS protesters. Obama denounce either/both cuz the implication is clear for both. Not doing so implicates that violence IS an option so mr. President do what you must! - ADDRESS OWS IN PERSON -

[-] 1 points by brina (0) 2 years ago

So, OWS is for protesting foreign governments, but not our own? Huh? I mean seriously, I have not seen much protest focused at government only "the 1%" which is rather vague and weak. OWS should be concentrating on our own system! You guys are irritating your supporters who aren't arm chair socialists and college students. You know, those of us many years straddled with the student loans, crippled with debt and poor health from the inequality if the system, and supporting families who are serious about actual, obtainable change.

If you guys had some focus, perhaps you could get help from those of us who can't camp out like hippies and bums in 45 degree weather, but would help out in a concentrated focused effort towards a centralized goal. Just a suggestion.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

I'm pretty sure that judging by the comments on here over the last week or so that there are enough people to form a splinter group from OWS to organize, elect leaders, create demands, and generally participate in the political process. The two groups will have similar goals, but different methods of reaching them.

Main OWS will most likely keep protesting and occupying buildings, and other such disruptive non-violent actions. Another group will be formed that lobbies Congress, or tries to change the leadership in offices of power around the country i.e. a third political party. Someone else in the comments yesterday mentioned something about an Open Source Party?

[-] 1 points by mtierney (1) 2 years ago

what's the EAC? how can we sign up to hear about more actions? thanks!

[-] 1 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

Can I make a suggestion here? Take your Ritalin. You guys are all over the place with your messages. Find one message, and stick to it. Is it financial reform? Pro-labor? Pro-socialism? Figure it out already. So far you guys are up to anti-nuclear-weapons-for-gay-whale-farmer-in-Egypt. Oh, and also, when you post up images of a black hand clenched in rage against a blood red background with Arabic writing on it, you tend to give conservative pundits a lot of ammo in likening your group to a left-wing terrorist organization. Smarten up, figure out what the hell you're doing, lose the hyperbole. You are alienating a great number of people. You can reply with "Oh, our numbers are swelling everyday!" or what not, but its the truth. If you guys could get three brain cells together between all of you, you might be able to actually accomplish something.

[-] 2 points by hiddenwheel (83) from Newton, MA 2 years ago

Deep throat to Bob Woodward "follow the money"!!! It's you who can't see the common thread here! It doesn't take many brain cells to link what is happening in Egypt to corporate interests. Start with a map and look for the Suez canal.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

Sharpie933 is another dimwit conservative troll.

[-] 1 points by Satyr000 (86) 2 years ago

Can I make a suggestion? Take a moment to read this: http://occupywallst.org/about/

[-] 0 points by Sharpie933 (20) 2 years ago

Technical work for resistance movements? What are you guys helping to install McAffee on the Lord's Resistance Army's computers too? You guys are a joke anyway. Just an excuse for the privileged to get together and have a good time at the expense of others. Your "rallies" are no different than Spring break or sports celebration. You're the current "must be at" event for young people, and it must be fun and all, just don't delude yourselves into thinking you are on par with people who actually fought and were willing to die for freedoms in the Mid-East. You are nothing like them. Enjoy your weed and your drum circles. You're going to get old and be part of the 1% soon anyways.

[-] 1 points by BraddDavis (10) 2 years ago

Revolutionary movements always go down the wrong road when the revolutionaries, in their arrogance, assume a position of moral superiority and become the tyrants they claim to oppose. Occupy stands at the crossroads of humble service or mindless opposition.

[-] 1 points by TimeHasC0me (66) 2 years ago

JFK: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AesVsRvOEo

[-] 1 points by TimeHasC0me (66) 2 years ago

JFK: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AesVsRvOEo

[-] 1 points by undernamenothing (14) from Napoli, Campania 2 years ago

Egypt free...come on www.lalavatrice.it

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Here's a 96 year old activist's concept of the revolution. I am inspired.

http://www.commondreams.org/video/2011/11/21-0.

I hope you'll check it out.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

Link is broken.

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

weird, I tried it too. Thanks for your reply.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

It's the dot; it breaks the URL

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

Here is is again. I copied and pasted. If it doesn't work, and you're interested, a google search will help you get to it.

http://www.commondreams.org/video/2011/11/21-0

[-] 1 points by rcarmstrong (115) from Cadyville, NY 2 years ago

I thought I copied and pasted. Hmmm I'll try again. Thanks.

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[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

I am just worried that Egypt will not be a democracy but will become a government run by the Muslim Brotherhood.

[-] 0 points by TimeHasC0me (66) 2 years ago

JFK: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AesVsRvOEo

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 2 years ago

Teargas Manufacture--Combined Systems, Inc. | 388 Kinsman Rd. Jamestown, PA 16134 | Tel: 724-932-2177 | Fax: 724-932-2166

Founded in 1981, Combined Systems, Inc. (CSI) is a U.S. based firm that supports military forces and law enforcement agencies around the world. CSI is a premier engineering, manufacturing and supply company of tactical munitions and crowd control devices globally to armed forces, law enforcement, corrections and homeland security agencies.

CSI primarily supports its military and law enforcement customers in developing, manufacturing and supplying the following types of products:

TACTICAL MUNITIONS, CROWD CONTROL DEVICES, IMPACT MUNITIONS, PYROTECHNIC DEVICES, IRRITANT AEROSOL SPRAYS, TRAINING & SIMULATION LAUNCHING SYSTEMS IRRITANT MUNITIONS, ROCKET COMPONENTS

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[-] 0 points by DonQuijote (55) from West Springfield, MA 2 years ago

Pay attention to what's happening in Egypt, OWS. You got a long way to go.

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[-] 0 points by Itanimulli (9) 2 years ago

"No Platform. Conspiracy theories, including any attempt to spam material by David Icke, Lyndon LaRouche, David Duke or Alex Jones, will be removed immediately and the spammer will receive a swift global network ban. Fascist propaganda (including any attempt to spam these four people again), will be treated with the similar actions. In that we are very specific about what fascism is: the word has a meaning."

Is this legit are you censoring people on this site?

This is specifically why this movement is leaderless, as soon as anyone gets any significant power they start abusing it for their own ends. People should be able to discuss whatever they like if this website has any legitimate association with the fundamental tenets of the movement.

[-] 0 points by TheNewMovement (46) 2 years ago

FASCISM: often capitalized: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

"This is specifically why this movement is leaderless"

What is the General Assembly?

http://www.nycga.net/

And who exactly has power over the donations?

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

The assembly and the spokes council, an organ of the assembly, are the only groups with power over the donations held by the GA. The assembly is everyone who is at the assembly, numbers can vary a lot, from barely a hundred to thousands. The spokes council is merely a council with a representative for every group with a ga mandate, more or less, you have to be confirmed as spoke for your committee for every council meeting, and the spokes council can be entirely removed by decision of the GA with a one week preadvice and a GA vote.

This is the functioning, specifically, for the NYC occupation, organization differs in others.

[-] -1 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Just an aside: all of you anti gun liberals can see what happens to a disarmed population.

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[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

You are welcome to make constructive criticism. However, many people reading your comments might interpret name-calling as a hostile gesture. Try to keep things civil if you will. Thanks.

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[-] -3 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

What is happening in Egypt is awful. And all people should be decrying the death and destruction...

But to repeat a statement, (that tries to equate what is going on here between OWS and the authorities) of some phantom State owned TV reporter... that came from a second hand tweet? That to me is just crazy!

While you whine over being pepper sprayed their are families in Egypt that are crying over a grave, while you rail about being arrested you are at the very least released the next day and face a judge in court.... meanwhile those arrested in Egypt are probably wondering if they are even going to get a chance to defend themselves, while you holler about a cop pushing you a protester in Egypt is in the hospital because they were shot or beaten.

Our country may not be perfect but I will hazard a bet that many of these Egyptian protesters can only dream of a day that they can do what you are doing now....

[-] 5 points by DonQuijote (55) from West Springfield, MA 2 years ago

What sinead is saying is that it's ok to get shot in the foot as long as you don't get shot in the head. pffft, that Martin Luther King would have listened to that garbage...

[-] -1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

That is not what I am saying and you know that.....

I am not defending excessive force.... but I'm sure the Egyptian protesters would much rather have an authority that would chose a pepper spray over a lethal bullet....

I protested in the 60s and 70s over the Vietnam war.... we did many of the same things you are doing today. We showed up in places that we knew we would face opposition. We expected there would be a push back.... and if all we were faced with was pepper spray or pushing we would have been elated.

And if you think that we are experiencing the same repression the Egyptians are then you need to spend some time over there....

[-] 5 points by civildissent (6) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

It is OUR government that is helping the military repress the people. All one ...look deeper !

Why be thankful for a government that represses people across the globe because they don't shoot you. This is not Justice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[-] -3 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

How is our government helping the military repress the people?

I didn't say be thankful, what I said was your freedoms in this country far outweigh the freedoms Egyptians have.... don't lessen their struggle by trying to equate the US government with Egypt's. Or that your "struggle" is even close to being on the same level with theirs.

[-] 4 points by DonQuijote (55) from West Springfield, MA 2 years ago

How? The U.S. supplies the Egyptian Army with millions if not billions of dollars.

And

The struggle is one and the same--The accountability of corporate and governmental powers that are becoming more and more intertwined with each other.

[-] -1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

Okay, well if we actually do give the army money then I will concede that point to you.

But to say that the "struggle is one and the same" is absolute fantasy and only a way to help you legitimize your movement. As I said this country most definitely has it's issues and there are things that need to be changed but to say that we are suffering under the same repression as Egyptians is ridiculous.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

And wonder if what we are experiencing gets worse and worse? Shall we sit back and let that happen more and more as time goes on? This shit started in the 1980s.... 30 years ago.... and continues to get worse and worse. When shall it end? How far should we let it go before we step in to stop it?

[-] 1 points by icfmike (173) 2 years ago

but our constitution expressly allows dissent redress our gov

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

Yes it does, however the people in Egypt do not have that "luxury".

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

The goal can be close even if the means are not the same.

[-] 0 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

I think you are really overstating the "repression" you feel OWS is under.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

I feel you are building a strawman. I didn't talk about repression, I talked about goals and ideology.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

Political ideologies have two dimensions:

  1. Goals: how society should work: I think OWS has demonstrated that.

  2. Methods: the most appropriate ways to achieve the ideal arrangement. I don't believe OWS has expressed any methods that would accomplish their goals.

Perhaps you can explain what their methods to achieve their goals are.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

People have provided plenty of info on how the U.S. government is helping the Egyptian military do so.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

I conceded that point .....no argument here.

[-] 1 points by civildissent (6) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

1.3 billion a year to the Egyptian Millitary Source NPR news today.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

I never disputed that. Nor do I think that it is "okay"...... is that all cleared up now?

[-] 2 points by bankrun2011 (89) 2 years ago

Why are you trying to sow nationalist divisions here? We are both on the same side in this struggle. I do not see why you need to go on about "our country" who do you think trained the egyptian police torturers and killers? This is one struggle.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

I'm not trying to divide anything. We should be behind the protesters in Egypt... We should condemn what is being done... and yes if our government is giving the authorities in Egypt the means to do this then we should speak out.

What I do not like is the way some OWS members act as if the their "struggle" is on the same level as the protesters in Egypt..... it is not... what these people are going through is something we couldn't even begin to imagine...

And while we have things to work out here, I'm confident that we have many more freedoms in this country.

[-] 2 points by bankrun2011 (89) 2 years ago

I am not in agreement with the way of framing things in terms of levels. In the U.S. the struggle has not yet become as radical. We have not yet called for the end of a government. Why do you think it would be any different here if our demands went as far as the Egyptian demands did? Remember Kent state? The murder of the black panthers etc etc...

"I'm confident that we have many more freedoms in this country."

If you go along with the status quo in the U.S. you have freedoms x,y, and z. If you go along with the status quo in Egypt you do too. Also, ask the groups who have historically been excluded from 'majority' social status in the U.S. about these so-called freedoms. They do not exist.

[-] 2 points by icfmike (173) 2 years ago

sinead, please don't defend police using pepper spray on a peaceful protest. the usa is supposed to be the example, the use of force on peaceful legal dissent cannot be supported

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

I am NOT defending the police.... what is it that makes it so hard for you people to understand what I'm saying. There IS a very big difference between what is happening here and what is happening in Egypt. THAT is what I am getting at.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

How far do you think the police will go if people continue to protest? If the people in the USA, who are granted the right to peacefully protest by their Constitution, are not being allowed to do so and are being brutalized in doing so, do you feel this is not serious... since people in other countries are experiencing more violence?

[-] 2 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Could you please clarify your position? I'm having a hard time understanding how the relative depth of violence used against OWS vs. Egypt are related. Are you saying that if one is worse than the other, then the lesser one is not bad? Or do you feel that the use of excessive violence is bad wherever it occurs?

[-] 0 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

There seems to be a theme of aligning the OWS here with the revolution in Egypt in a way that reads as if OWS and the Egyptian revolutionaries are on a equal playing field. The problems in Egypt are far beyond anything that citizens of the US are going through.

And if you think that what has happened here in the US with OWS is violent when compared to what the protesters in Egypt have endured well then I don't think I could even explain to you why that is wrong.

And yes what has happened here is lesser. I did not say it was right, although I don't understand why you would expect that it would not happen... but it certainly isn't on the level of Egypt.

I protested actively in the 60's and 70's during the Vietnam war.... what the authorities have done to OWS protesters is like a walk in the park compared to what was done to the war protesters. It doesn't make excessive force good, but then I guess that depends on what you define as excessive force.

[-] 3 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

"As the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces escalates the use of force on protesters at Tahrir, we call for support and solidarity for our brothers and sisters of Tahrir Square."

solidarity - noun : a union of interests or purposes or sympathies among members of a group

I think OWS is saying, "We see your pain, we see it as wrong. As we are able, we will help."

Do you think this interpretation is incorrect?

[-] 2 points by icfmike (173) 2 years ago

vnayar, you got it right

[-] -1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

NO.... and I never said that I did.... it is placing the OWS on the same level as the Egyptian protesters that I have an issue with. I can't make it any clearer than that.

[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Sorry then. I suppose I got confused because I am unable to find such equivalency being stated.

[-] 1 points by SwissMiss (2435) from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI 2 years ago

How does "support and solidarity" and "actions in solidarity" translate to saying we are suffering on the same level as the Egyptians are?

[-] 1 points by icfmike (173) 2 years ago

we are NOT supposed to be like Egypt...that is the point

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

It was only referred because it was a reasonable translation of what was said.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

"reasonable translation" ? What the heck does that mean? To mean it could mean that it wasn't translated to what was really said...

[-] 2 points by mordred (1) 2 years ago

Why drive a wedge in solidarity?? Their situation is harsher, and has been so for many years, but it's mostly because of OUR CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT that they are suffering under another installed dictatorship..We're just being given the same preferential "democracy"-like treatment Imperial Athens gave to her own citizens, while they extended Empire and Oppression into the surrounding islands and territories. The impulse for true democracy is a sensation OWS and the Egyptian people both share..

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 2 years ago

It's great PR if you think about it - it's preemptive finger pointing, western countries have been doing this shit to protesters (whether ruled by german conservatives or american sort of liberals) so there's really no leg to stand on in terms of criticism. At least I figure that's why they'd pursue the angle on state television, I figure they also don't mention the dead.

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 2 years ago

western countries have been doing this shit to protesters (whether ruled by german conservatives or american sort of liberals) so there's really no leg to stand on in terms of criticism.

Logical fallacy: two wrongs don't make a right.

Occupy should teach by example, not redo the errors of others just because they did them first. If this is your modus operandi, then you are already corrupted and a lost cause.

[-] -3 points by Glaucon (296) 2 years ago

They are using the comparison to prepare OWS for violence. It's basic propaganda 101.

[-] 1 points by sinead (474) 2 years ago

That wasn't my interpretation at all..... they are taking a "firm" stance because that is what the US and Germany did...

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 2 years ago

I think their stance if very firm.

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[-] 1 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I understand you have very strong feelings about the OWS movement, and you have concerns which, if proved, would be of great concern to everyone.

In order to prove that another individual or organization has a particular message, you must demonstrate the actions and statements from that organization that illustrate this message.

Do you have any information from OWS itself that would support the claims you made? Specifically that:

  • OWS is trying to collapse the government
  • OWS is trying to collapse the economy
  • OWS is advocating violence

I am looking forward to your response.

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[+] -5 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Violence for Occupy is carefully being prepared with this dubious association. Protesters in Egypt have already started using homemade bombs, how long before the ones in OWS do?

[-] 5 points by vnayar (289) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

The OWS movement has repeatedly stated that is a peaceful movement. Dubious claims about bombs half way around the planet does not support any claim to the contrary. This is a public forum, so please try to support claims with evidence and cleanly separate fact from opinion. I look forward to hearing constructive comments.

[-] -1 points by Glaucon (296) 2 years ago

The OWS movement has repeatedly stated that is a peaceful movement

This means nothing.

I provide a lot of evidence in other threads.

[-] 3 points by mad (13) 2 years ago

FROM AN EYE WITNESS: No protesters are making or using bombs .... the maximum tools used are: rocks for self defense only, and some fireworks that are used in soccer matches, and those fireworks are to raise the spirit not to harm anyone... One major principle that we have is: police units are still our Egyptian brothers, they may be stupidly following orders, but WE ARE PEACEFUL , we have always been.. at least till this very moment ..

[-] 1 points by NohaRaouf (3) 2 years ago

I double that..

[-] 0 points by Glaucon (296) 2 years ago

I saw videos of Egyptian protesters throwing molotov cocktails.

[-] 1 points by NohaRaouf (3) 2 years ago

well they started doing so when the army and police started attacking them!!! should they stand still quite?!! Though not all of the protesters!! they are suppressing unarmed protesters and preventing them from their rights to protest peacefully!! they started this and it back fired on them! Army and POLICE are using rubber bullets and real ones as well.. aside from the tearing gas with all its kinds.. i believe if u saw molotov cocktail videos then u definitely have seen the other videos as well..

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

I would not stand still and quiet, I would attack back and throw as many homemade bombs as possible. However, this is not the point.

The point is that if OWS makes the claim of being a non-violent protest inspired by Ghandi's non-violence, then it should not associate itself with the protest in Egypt where protesters are turning to violence. Non-violence means you let yourself be killed without fighting back. That is how Ghandi used it. He even went has far as to tell the Jews they should let Hitler kill them if that is what he wanted. Occupy should not support violence if it wants to claim non-violence; that's hypocrite.

[-] 1 points by mad (13) 2 years ago

Just to prove the point, violence stopped already :) And those throwing molotov cocktails were arrested ..... guess who arrested them?? the peaceful protesters...

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[-] 1 points by NohaRaouf (3) 2 years ago

This is not true!! have u seen it yourself?!! all protesters were and are unarmed and they are protesting peacefully.. Maybe you are taking about old regime thugs.. please do not spread false news.. EYE WITNESS FROM EGYPT

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Yes, I have seen exactly how OWS uses propaganda to demonize the police and prepare the movement for violence.