Forum Post: Zionism has created 'rivers of blood'.
Posted 12 years ago on March 11, 2012, 10:57 p.m. EST by Demian
(497)
from San Francisco, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
When Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel’s prime minister, visited Washington last week on the eve of the Purim holiday, he gave Barack Obama, the US president, what he considered a symbolic gift - a copy of the old testament book of Esther.
Netanyahu called it "background reading on Iran", since its story concerns relations with Jews in the Persian empire some 2,500 years ago.
It is considered by scholars to be mostly fiction, but for Netanyahu Esther represented justification for his stance against modern Iran.
”Israel must reserve the right to defend itself. And after all that’s the very purpose of the Jewish state. To restore to the Jewish people control over our destiny,” Netanyahu said.
But Netanyahu’s controversial reading of history, even his fight to preserve the state of Israel, are questioned by many of Judaism’s own religious authorities.
"This is against the will of the Almighty and this is not what it means to be a Jew," says Jewish religious scholar Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss, a spokesman for "Jews against Zionism", who believes that Israel as a state is not legitimate. He says that Zionism has created "rivers of blood" and he opposes the occupation of Palestine.
On the threat from Iran and President Ahmadinejad he says: "He gives charity to Jewish communities and he says one thing: he has a problem with the oppression of the Palestinian people. And the words "wipe out" he constantly says that Iran doesn't have a history and he is not talking about harming anybody he says that God will not allow this crime to happen. We concur with him that Jews are in danger because there is Zionism because it says in the Tora if you rebel against God, it will not be successful and there will be catastrophic results and Zionism has brought catastrophic results and it could be much worse."
See the interview of this guy right here.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2012/03/201231083221669780.html
Whats everybody think?
Thanks for that great video. What Rabbi Weiss says is very profound.
And, no one group of people on this earth is more important or of greater value than any other. Ever. Period.
Israel is a fact. It exists. Israel has a right to defend itself.
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Israel is a fiction... Like Bibi's "Book of Esther".
It is a fact. You don't have to like it and you don't have to agree with it. But, Israel exists.
It is a fraud. It has no constitution. It has no legitimacy.
Again. It is a fact. It is legitimate. Israel is a nation state. You don't have to like it and you don't have to agree with it. But, Israel exists and will continue to exist.
Israel is a state but it is not a "nation state" at all. It consists of a patchwork of ethnic groups and religious inclinations that have little in common. Demographics doom Israel. Palestinians and Israeli Arabs still have big birth rates while modern secular/moderate religious Jews in Israel do not. On top of that like many white nations, Israelis disdain physical labor and that is done by non Jews and non Israelis. The days of the toiling Kibbutznik is over. The grunt work is hired out. The hirees might be illegals, they might be on contracts, but they are part of Israel which claims it is a "Jewish" state.
The only demographic group of Jews that has lots of children are of a subculture of not participating in productive work and not serving in the armed forces. Not much to lean on in the long run.
It is a nation state. We do not make up definitions for what a nation state is if we don't like it. All the rest of what you have is complete and total opinion.
Furthermore, England does not have a constitution. It is a series of documents that make up a constitution.
I never spoke about Israel's constitution nor lack thereof. A nation is a nation, a state is a state and the two are not the same thing. If you look at the territory under the governance of the Israeli state, which claims it is "the Jewish state" you find that Jews are not the majority, and that a large portion of those Jewish people are involved in a rapidly growing subculture that shuns work or any social responsibility to the Israeli state.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/should-us-taxpayers-support-a-bizarre-welfare-cult/
Chomsky btw attacks the pro Palestinian movement (BDS) for among other things advocating that Palestinians be allowed to exercise their lawful right to return to their homes. He does this because, he says it means "the end of Israel.) ie the end of the Jewish supremacist state of Israel.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/noam-chomsky-blasts-tutu-the-presbyterians-and-elv/
nation-state
Israel is a nation-state. It is the correct terminology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Population_of_Israel.png
No worries currently. Israel is actually quite diverse.
Chomsky is pro Palestinian. He is against BDS. He's right. It's repetitive. You need to step back and look at it objectively.
And I know you didn't say anything about their lack of constitution. I just threw it out there to get out of making an entire other post.
'Chomsky is pro Palestinian'
With friends like that they might not need enemies.
http://aliabunimah.posterous.com/audio-challenging-noam-chomskys-opposition-to
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Your population chart doesn't include the people of the "occupied territories" who are people who live under Israeli rule. Please do not tell me that Gaza is not under Israeli rule either. Israel decides who and what goes into and out of Gaza (along with the bribed by the USA on behalf of Israel Egyptian military dictators).
I have many of Chomsky's books. He is a hard critic of both the US and Israel. In fact, he is far more critical of Israel than I am and while I agree with him in many other areas--I do not agree with him there.
He is a critic for sure. To be a critic and to be an opponent are two different things. Chomsky defends Israel on the point of BDS and supports the continuance of Israel as a Jewish state. He steadfastly refuses to admit that Jews and other Zionists have emotional and ideological ties to Israel that have nothing to do with US strategic interest and have nothing to do with the real interests of the 99%.
I agree with him and I firmly support the continuance of Israel.
This is international politics.
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/shlomo-sands-the-invention-of-the-jewish-people-book-review.html
Israel can only remain a Jewish state by disregarding international law. It can only remain Jewish by ethnic cleansing.
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Wrong.
It will go the way of Rhodesia. Demographics will wipe it off the map - and there isn't a thing their nuclear arsenal can do about it.
I doubt it. In fact, I think that is rather wishful thinking.
your right....no constitution, no bill of rights, limited freedom's of speech, mandatory military service, separate seating on buses for men and women, open mocking, hostility and discrimination against muslims and christians - example - hatred of Christmas, occupation of Palestinian land....and "Israeli/Jewish only" roads, housing units, schools, etc......this isn't racism? Most Israelis are not semites but whites, meaning one can trace their bloodlines to Communist Russia or Europe....anyone who cries antisemitism is lying with a straight face....we can't support these war mongering racist murderers....
What's most interesting are how zionists in the US push for open borders in the states yet these same people claim Israel must be kept a "jewish state" only for jews....it doesn't take a genius to figure out the lying, cheating, killing, deception, false flags, manipulation, murdering, destruction, nation wrecking, financial fraud and terrorism, blackmailing, stealing, usury, etc that carries on...it must be stopped!!!!
Did anybody watch the interview?
Your video will probably come as a serious shock to some people - especially in the USA & thus re. further evidence of Rabbi Weiss' point of view, perhaps also see :
1) http://www.nkusa.org/ ;
2) http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ &
3) http://www.israelversusjudaism.org/ +
4) http://www.gilad.co.uk/ (from a secular 'pov')
Also for insights re. 'Iran and Jews' please see :
a) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA7yz2vciGk +
b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-r04SQ97_Q &
c) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngttxIzXRsE !!!
Further, also see the documentary film : "Iran is Not the Problem" ; http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5708329875314599685 .
Finally, re. "Israel/Palestine', please consider and calmly reflect upon :
dum spiro, spero ...
bout 7 minutes
1 rivers of blood (arabs blood?) 2 Israeli oppression against Palestine? 3 Jerusalem need american help with war thing 4 "we are not to attempt to recreate our sovereignty" (we are will be provided with land by God, peacefully) 5 Netanyahu present to Obama the Book of Esther which is said about relations between Israel and Persian state about 2000 years ago. nothing were written about Arab states, assuming that the Israel land had bigger territory 6 Jerusalem waiting for fire-starter, because their religion not allow them to takeover the land. i only watched 6 min
I agree. From what I've seen Jews are generally treated well in Iran and have been for a long time. I think that "wiped off the face of the map" was an intentional mistranslation that has caused a lot more conflict then was necessary.
"From what I've seen Jews are generally treated well in Iran and have been for a long time"
I guess you know more than wikipedia:
At the time of the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, there were approximately 140,000–150,000 Jews living in Iran, the historical center of Persian Jewry. Over 85% have since migrated to either Israel or the United States, with the migration accelerating after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, when the population dropped from 100,000 to about 40,000.[24] On March 16, 1979, Habib Elghanian, the honorary leader of the Jewish community, was arrested on charges of "corruption", "contacts with Israel and Zionism", "friendship with the enemies of God", "warring with God and his emissaries", and "economic imperialism". He was tried by an Islamic revolutionary tribunal, sentenced to death, and executed on May 8, one of 17 Iranian Jews executed as spies since the revolution.
Estimates of the Jewish population in Iran vary. In mid- and late 1980s, it was estimated at 20,000–30,000, rising to around 35,000 in mid-1990s, and estimated at less than 40,000 nowadays, with around 25,000 residing in Tehran.
Privately many Jews complain to foreign reporters of "discrimination, much of it of a social or bureaucratic nature." The Islamic government appoints the officials who run Jewish schools, most of these being Muslims and requires that those schools must open on Saturdays, the Jewish Sabbath. Criticism of this policy was the downfall of the last remaining newspaper of the Iranian Jewish community which was closed in 1991 after it criticized government control of Jewish schools.
Dee, you really are Micheal Scott Jr, aincha boy?
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Israel is a proxy for the CIA/MOSSAD.
The Mosad ain't jewish, the CIA ain't christian,
Long ago BIG-OIL setup the current affairs, but today the state of Israel is of little use to the plutocrats, ... most real money in Israel is sitting in Hong Kong banks, .. like the USA nobody has invested in Israel for years.
Most telling is of the 28 largest super-malls in the world 26 are in Asia, and only 2 are in the USA, and none are in Israel.
The plutocrats will use Israel as an excuse to steal the OIL of Iran, like they have done in Libya, and Iraq, ... and every where else, and all the hate will be directed towards Israel.
FORD&HEARST, & BUSH long ago put HITLER in power, and setup Israel to follow to contain all Jews in one place ... and they will be incinerated, as a 'smart-jew' my self, I stay as far away from the USA and Israel as I can.
Interesting opinion from a "smart Jew", I've seen some of those super shopping malls, having lived in China for a while. What country do you live in?
I think the plutocrats intend to use Israel for worse than stealing oil though, they want to steal the whole planet, by using Israel to start a nuclear WW3, while they hide in their bunkers.
If Netanyahu considers the Book of Esther to be pertinent to modern geopolitics, presumably he considers the Books of Numbers & Joshua to be pertinent also, & is only waiting for his opportunity to unleash their genocidal teachings on the Palestinians, Jordanians & others in the region.
Rabbi Weiss & Neturei Karta - as well as the many prominent Jewish anti-Zionist individuals, & the scores of other Jewish anti-Zionist groups worldwide (including in Israel) - should be given much more prominence in US media, to counter the rabid, supremacist warmongering of the Likud/AIPAC/Neocon Axis of Evil.
Both your comments are right on.
I've heard that there is a lot of dissent in the Israeli press about many of the actions the Israeli state. I don't see anything very critical to Israel in U.S. press though. Thats why I like Al Jazeera you get a wider range of opinion on the issues.
D : An article that speaks to your point :
Further, Gildas' point re Al Jazeera has value, especially in the light of the recent resignations of staff from Al Jazeerah's Beirut bureau in particular, over 'bias' : http://rt.com/news/al-jazeera-loses-staff-335/ .
pax.
I'm also a little skeptical of RT. I cant put my finger on it but something about the stories on there are pretty suspect.
Yeah, I dont take it as gospel but it is an improvement to any of our domestic news sources. Thanks for the links.
Al Jazeera's good on Israel, but be sceptical about its Libya, Bahrain, Syria, Iran, etc. coverage: http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/03/12/al-jazeera-exodus-channel-losing-staff-bias-94271/
For any viewers who are conservative protestants, I want you to know that this post is not created by an actual member of Occupy wall street, named demonian, or whatever, and that he does not represent our views. He is an outsider here to convey that impression.
I never claimed the views expressed in the interview were mine. I saw this guy on Al Jazeera thought it was an interesting interview and decided to post it here. Did you bother to watch the interview? I am not trying to convey any impressions. I just thought it would be interesting to hear other opinions on the subject and I must say so far i've been kinda dissapointed. I get the impression that people have too short an attention span to watch it.
Sorry, there's been so much trolling here that I'm sort of starting to go on automatic pilot. That's not good. It's a sign that thet're getting to me, and I need to take a break and see how things go with the direction of the forum.
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The interview is conducted with a well known anti-Israeli activist. You didn't really miss anything.
Thanks, and I don't really believe my interpretation of this post was off base, but I do try to preserve an open mind. It's been getting harder here lately.
I don't think your interpretation of this post is off base at all.
Maybe I should have just written "division troll," and left it at that. But I am a little afraid of the temptation to come to snap judgements about some posts. I feel that could lead one into arrogance and error, but with your judgement to back me up, I now feel confident in saying - "division troll."
I try not to but it is a little difficult.
Also, what is it that qualifies one as a member of OWS? How would you know if I was a member or not? Who are to say what the views of OWS are? Are you on some sort of commitiee that decides what the official views are? And if so please enlighten me.
I think it's really none of our business at the end of the day. Why is it our job to interfere at all overseas? We need to focus at home.
I don't give half a damn for Isreal. Our government needs to stop trying to mold the Middle East and the rest of the world to suit its own purposes.
100% correct! But the Christians aren't going to allow that. Flip through the religious channels some night and you might be surprised how many of them are worshipping Israel. On one they have an American flag and an Israeli in the background. Hell, even that mudsharks Sarah Palin always has a Star of David around her neck.
Oh boy, don't I know it! Their culture revolving around our military & unequivical support of Isreal is downright creepy.
Maybe it's a good sign chruch attendance is falling? I'm all for religious freedom, but would just love to see more people actively decide what they believe in. That definitely goes for the consumption of media as well.
the Nile ran with blood when the pharaoh would not free the jewish slaves
That kind of confirms the Post's headline.
when the Nile ran red it was not due to murder
For all of us who are interested in the truth of the Zionist killing since 1947:
check out:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/29665
……40,000 Arabs / Moslems were killed by Jews
.…..22,000 Jews were killed by Arabs / Muslims
10,000,000 Arabs / Muslims were killed by Arabs / Muslims
so – lets see – lets calculate who is
…the most dangerous, the most murderous adversary of Arabs / Muslims
of course this does not include the hundreds of Arab / Muslim battles since Islam started from 624-1946
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By a 7 to 1 ratio, Arabs have killed more Arabs than Israeli's have. That does not excuse Israel. But it does give some indication of which river is wider.
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