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Forum Post: [DELETED]

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 29, 2011, 9:44 p.m. EST by anonymous ()
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21 Comments

21 Comments


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[-] 2 points by CrossingtheDivided (357) from Santa Ysabel, CA 12 years ago

Is the "Zeitgeist Movement"/"Venus Project" a cult-like gathering of fakes, and potentially dangerous ones at that? Of course.

Is the modern American "Libertarian" who touts the mythical "Free Market" as a solution to all our ills an equally flaky and potentially disastrous fraud? Absolutely.

Beware of fools/&/or/trolls (as in the OP, who is both) who try to link socialism with Totalitarian "Communism" (cv. Soviet Russia.) It's a cheap parlor trick for suckers who never bothered to read Marx themselves, only what people had to say about Marxism.

P.S. - I'm not a Marxist.

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[-] 2 points by CrossingtheDivided (357) from Santa Ysabel, CA 12 years ago

Who's the dumb shit? The one responding to the content of the article -- which you likely concur with (else why the hell would you post it!?) -- or the one who cut and pasted it without bothering to add ""'s (quotes) or any like distinction as someone else's writing.

For all I know, Robert Stacy McCain is your real name.

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[-] 1 points by CrossingtheDivided (357) from Santa Ysabel, CA 12 years ago

Phoney. Hypocrite.

I seem to remember in the last day you "being on the offense [making] you a bully and [casting] serious doubt on your intellect."

You sent me a threatening PM lying about what I wrote on a thread, and accusing me of being the poster who started the thread attacking you (before that, I had no idea who you were, and certainly made no remark about you.)

You probably still believe I'm that other poster in disguise (GodofTruth, was it?)

You're "very middle of the road person"? Iz zat so!? Well, keep moving, or don't be surprised when you get run over.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

i'm everyone. lol. kent gates here is a troll. Strangely on this topic hes right. But still making his point trollishly.

namaste, you must be kewl if trolls think you must be me. lol

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[-] 1 points by CrossingtheDivided (357) from Santa Ysabel, CA 12 years ago

I'm John, huh?

As I said the other day, I've had enough of your feeble, paranoid nonsense. You really need to take that exhausted head of yours away from the computer occasionally, give it some fresh air and light. It's evidently rotting.

Goodbye.

[-] 1 points by shutitdown (7) 12 years ago

The Zeitgeist Movement is an explicitly non-violent, global sustainability advocacy group currently working in over 1000 Regional Chapters across 70 countries. The basic structure of The Movement consists of Chapters, Teams, Projects & Events. Overall, the Chapters are essentially what define the Movement and each Chapter works to not only spread awareness about the roots of our social problems today but also to express the logical, scientific solutions and methods we have at our disposal to update and correct the current social system and create a truly responsible, sustainable, peaceful, global society. Working through global and regional educational projects and community programs, the intermediate goal is to obtain a worldwide movement, essentially unifying the people, regardless of country, religion or political party, with a common value identification that we all invariably share, pertaining to our survival and sustainability.

ON OWS -------------------------- On Sept 17th 2011, a grassroots expression of contempt was launched in the heart of the world's financial center in lower Manhattan of New York City, also commonly known to the world as the institution of "Wall Street". As of Sept 26th, there have been over 80 arrests and many recorded instances of what appears to be violence and abuse coming from the police and security forces there. However, the protesters remain vigilant in what could very well be a landmark event that will resonate for some time to come.

The Zeitgeist Movement would like to extend its public support to this basic expression.

As the world awakens to a failing financial system with growing civil unrest emerging without the bias of sovereignty, religion or political loyalty, a new, unifying perspective is slowly taking hold which transcends the framework many of us falsely assume as empirical to our way of life.

training web page http://url2it.com/jtje

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[-] -1 points by vincentg (5) 12 years ago

the Zeitgeist movement spawned OWS- they both stand for the same thing?

training web page http://url2it.com/jtje

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[-] 1 points by vincentg (5) 12 years ago

yes i make a mockery of anyone who wants to tell the people how they are to be governed- human rights and human freedom, means its the people who decide how they are to be governed- the people must have the right to chose- and as you can see- no one can block me / silence me- nor can anything stop ows. you would make a great speaker of the house. training web page http://tinyurl.com/7rvpv43

[-] 0 points by treehouse (11) 12 years ago

Richard-

[-] 0 points by genanmer (822) 12 years ago

There has never been truly 'private' property.

If you refuse to adhere to a social contract, the IRS/police/government will come for you no matter where you live. Everyone lives on government property and imposed violence has been used ever since the removal of native Americans from their land, the abduction of Africans from theirs, and now with the acquisition of resources from Middle Eastern lands.

Property has never been held as a sacred 'right' in our country even if it is written. If it is sacred, at least practice what is preached.

A monetary-based economy is bad when it is Perpetuates GREED driven profit schemes at the expense of ecosystems and human lives. The natural progression of a monetary system to create abundance would eliminate the need for money itself if money wasn't also regarded as sacred..

A post-scarcity society is the goal. The question is how to arrive there?

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[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 12 years ago

Your car can be impounded if you oppose certain rules of the road consistently.

Yes there are 'leaders' in every culture. The 1% of our culture are leaders of acquisition and material wealth. Money and advertising promotes this because the dominant values of our culture are materialistic. Other cultures have family or spirituality as their dominant values. The god of this culture is money.

And it is true, challenges and conflict can drive people to accomplish great things. I see it all the time but is it necessary to cause and perpetuate suffering for these things to occur? Life itself is filled with enough suffering without artificially adding more to it.

If a handful of leaders run society then they must have ethics, virtues, and humanity at their core. Money is not sacred, people are.

And that is the point of the conflict. If money is just a tool, why defend it? If businesses are not people, why defend them so wholeheartedly? It's the people behind all these institutions, organizations, and tools that are important.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 12 years ago

Marxists won't learn from history. They'll just keep murdering innocent people. The believer in Das Kapital's lies = inbred retard. Always has.

[-] 4 points by metapolitik (1110) 12 years ago

Capitalists won't learn from history. They'll just keep murdering innocent people. The believers in The Invisible Hand lie = inbred retards. Always have.

http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse

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[-] 1 points by metapolitik (1110) 12 years ago

Capitalism is just like the Roman Empire.

  • Violent

  • Expansionist

  • Exploitative

We nee to replace these with:

  • Liberty

  • Equality

  • Fraternity

http://www.tlaxcala.es/pp.asp?lg=en&reference=4015

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[-] 2 points by metapolitik (1110) 12 years ago

Fine, you want a lengthy exposition on putting these principals into action?

You've got it:

http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 12 years ago

And your point? Oh, and Marxism has murdered more people than any other political system in history. Take your Stalinist shit and shove it up your ass red scum.

[-] 1 points by metapolitik (1110) 12 years ago

Argument that the "Black Book of Communism" book is one-sided:

"Some pointed out that the book's account of violence is one-sided. Amir Weiner of Stanford University characterizes the "Black Book" as seriously flawed, inconsistent, and prone to mere provocation. In particular, the authors are said to savage Marxist ideology. The methodology of the authors has been criticized. Alexander Dallin writes that moral, legal, or political judgement hardly depends on the number of victims. It is also argued that a similar chronicle of violence and death tolls can be constructed from an examination of colonialism and capitalism in the 19th and 20th centuries. In particular, the Black Book's attribution of 1 million deaths in Vietnam to Communism while ignoring the U.S. role has been criticized as a methodological flaw.

"Critics have argued that capitalist countries could be held responsible for a similar number of deaths. Noam Chomsky, for example, writes that Amartya Sen in the early 1980s estimated the excess of mortality in India over China due to the latter's "relatively equitable distribution of medical resources" at close to 4 million a year. Chomsky therefore argues that, "suppos[ing] we now apply the methodology of the Black Book and its reviewers" to India, "the democratic capitalist 'experiment' has caused more deaths than in the entire history of ... Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, and tens of millions more since, in India alone."

"Journalist Daniel Singer has also criticized the Black Book for discussing the faults of communist states while ignoring their positive achievements; he says that "if you look at Communism as merely the story of crimes, terror and repression, to borrow the subtitle of the Black Book, you are missing the point." According to him, "The Soviet Union did not rest on the gulag alone. There was also enthusiasm, construction, the spread of education and social advancement for millions." He also argues that if communism can be blamed for famines, capitalism should be blamed for most or all deaths from poverty in the world at the present time.

"Historian Ján Křen said in interview that when Karel Bartošek and other co-authors found out the book "is heading towards conjectural shallowness, in which communism is reduced to terror only, there was a bad conflict, which couldn't be solved, because agreement was signed and Stephane Courtois pressured them".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism#Criticism

Le Livre Noir du Capitalisme (The Black Book of Capitalism) is a French book published in 1998, in reaction to The Black Book of Communism (1997). Unlike the latter however, Le Livre Noir du Capitalisme does not attempt to provide a comprehensive tally of victims of the politico-economic system in question. Rather, the book is composed of a series of independent essays commissioned from various writers who were given free rein to write on any aspect of capitalism they chose. Topics covered range from the African slave trade to the era of financial globalization.

An appendix provides an incomplete list of 20th century death tolls which Perrault attributes to the capitalist system. The list, which includes both combatant and noncombatant dead, includes an estimated 58 million dead from the First and Second World Wars, plus death tolls from various colonial wars, anticommunist wars and repressions, ethnic conflicts, and some victims of famines or malnutrition,which brings the incomplete list to a combined total of about 100 million deaths attributed to capitalism in the 20th century.

Edited by Gilles Perrault, the other contributors to the book include historians, sociologists, economists, trade unionists and writers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Livre_Noir_du_Capitalisme

And for anyone who say "Communism" can't be democratic:

http://metapolitik.org/blogs/admin/about

http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse

Oh - and within the context of Metapolitik.org...

I'm not so much "Red" as I am "Green".

[-] 0 points by XXAnonymouSXX (455) 12 years ago

Easy. We don't have to agree on every issue. This is a place for discussion not hate. www.thrivemovement.com

[-] -2 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 12 years ago

Okay. You are right.

[-] -2 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 12 years ago

You are what is known as a "useful idiot".