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Forum Post: You're doing it wrong.

Posted 12 years ago on Sept. 26, 2011, 12:41 a.m. EST by IOA (0)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I was actually permabanned in the IRC for suggesting this idea (which makes me really think what kind of people you are...), but here's my idea.

You're doing it all wrong.

You should all be civilly disobedient. Not violent. Do you know why 80+ people were arrested on Wall Street? Not because of inhumanely brutal cops - it's actually because your protesters aren't properly informed of how they should perform civil disobedience.

It's hard to tell from videos, but most of the time you either 1.) don't know what provoked the fight because most people only point their cameras somewhere when something big is going on, and 2.) the person being apprehended actually broke the law somehow and is being rightfully punished.

What's hard for the protesters to accept, is that they actually /don't/ have all the rights they think they do. As they pool into the streets and act unruly (...disorderly conduct), they are actually potentially breaking several laws. You can't block streets like that, and if a cop orders you to get onto the sidewalk, you would be directly disobeying an order from an officer; thus, if you continue to stand there, you get arrested for not complying with orders. If a cop confronts you and you start making sudden, quick gestures with your hands, the cops have every right to tackle you down over it. Have you ever been pulled over? If you do so much as to even reach for a sip of water in your cup holder, the cop can only assume you're reaching for a gun. Same thing here: The cop can only assume you're about to whale on him.

What really compounds the issue is that, once people realize they're being apprehended, they flip out and start resisting arrest, which is really the worst thing they can do. It's another charge to deal with and another thing that really takes credit away from your movement.

So basically what I'm saying is, start educating your protesters with proper civil disobedience tactics. They should familiarize themselves with local laws and regulations (i.e., don't block traffic like a dumbass, don't use megaphones, etc.), and comply with all police orders. That way, they literally can't arrest you for just standing on the sidewalk minding your own business. The only time arrests have been made is when somebody acts in a threatening manner or disobeys police orders. If you don't give them a reason to cuff you, they legally can't.

So that's that, you guys are doing it wrong. No need to ban me for giving you suggestions (Buddha or whatever your name is). Smarten up, you'll need it out there.




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[-] 3 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 12 years ago

Hey man, thanks for the suggestions. I have my own, and that is that you come and make the same suggestion before the General Assembly. You would not be banned there, nor disrespected. Many agree with you, though I do think you don't completely understand why those in the streets do what they do. Disorderly conduct in this case is exactly what some protesters want. The "order" of the present establishment and power structure is unjust and corrupt to the core. Disobeying that order is really at the heart of what we want to do.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 12 years ago

Buddha banned me too. What a bastard.

[-] 1 points by imjustbeginningtosee (3) from New Orleans, LA 12 years ago

Max Keiser said Americans were asleep at the control panel. It's good to see we are waking up a bit and stirring things. I agree that we need to be organized and civil about this. The Yugoslavians did it fairly well, no rocking throwing or looting. The Egyptians copied them with much success. Occupy peacefully in numbers is the key. You have to get beyond Democracy Now and onto mainstream media.

[-] 1 points by Javier (283) from Villa Maipú, Buenos Aires 12 years ago

What's your rank Sir?

[-] 1 points by DusanfromSerbia (34) from Београд, Централна Србија 12 years ago

Main goal should not be establish new economic system, its too hard to do "over the night". We are confronting here with criminal oligarhy that don't respect any laws, don't respect nature, don't respect anything. Their frauds should be reaveled one by one, and they should be reaveled on main TV stations.
So, the goal should be to bring the TRUTH to the media, and thus the criminal actions shell crumble. That's how it should start, and than bring those criminals to justice. Crucial is to free those main medias from corporate hands, by bringing protests before their buildings.

[-] 1 points by npowell85 (249) from Montana City, Mt 12 years ago

Well said, hopefully their are more people like us who want to actually see this make some progress... Though I am very skeptical since there has been no clear leadership or direction and nobody knows why the people are on Wall Street or what specific changes could be made to satisfy them...

[-] 2 points by damndawg (11) 12 years ago

do you realize that there are no leaders or organizers? do you realize that there are MANY different kinds of people here? there are socialists, leftist yuppies, students, conservatives, anarchists, vets, seniors and more. each as an individual or as part of a group with their own idea of what is 'right' or 'correct' for themselves. it is actually quite amazing how democratic this has been considering the number of 'differences.' if you read the blogs and watch the posted videos you will understand more of what is going on and why. and i leave you with this: "Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored." -Martin Luther King, Jr., 'Letter from Birmingham Jail'

[-] 1 points by npowell85 (249) from Montana City, Mt 12 years ago

Okay, break it down...

Nonviolent DIRECT action (meaning clear and decisive) ..... THE issue. (what is the issue?) dramatize THE ISSUE that IT can no longer be ignored. (what is "IT"????)

The final sentence of that speech is as follows:

"so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic hieghts of understanding and brotherhood"

He did not say "because we are generally dissatified with the current state of our government" He had a clear and distinct point, and he was a leader. Thats all Im saying... You guys need leadership and a goal.

[-] 1 points by damndawg (11) 12 years ago

uh, you totally missed what 'I' wrote before you ranted on MLK.

[-] 1 points by npowell85 (249) from Montana City, Mt 12 years ago

I didn't miss it, it just doesn't answer anything... what is the point of the protest? just to show that people are generally unhappy? what are you trying to change by being there? is there no unity? thats the very problem that has created this enviorment that you protest: selfishness. its all about what best for each individual or small group... people are incapable of thinking about whats best for everyone and thats why the rich hog all the money and its why you guys can't figure out what you are doing down there....

[-] 0 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 12 years ago

You should learn a little bit about the general assembly process. There is democracy being practiced in Liberty Square. We do not want leaders, nor hierarchical power structures of any sort. Individuals are autonomous and make their own decisions for themselves, but 90+% consensus is sought on all major group decisions and principles of conduct. We are on Wall Street precisely because they have failed and don't have the democratic, populist solutions that will save this country. We DO have those solutions - they already exist all around the country. It is the the corporate government's refusal to adopt needed changes in the paradigms and structures of our government and economy that has made us stand up and show them how it should be done.

[-] 1 points by npowell85 (249) from Montana City, Mt 12 years ago

OWS has comparred your movement to movements around the world, do you think they didn't have leadership in those protests? Didn't they have a clear reason for protesting?

If the president said "okay we hear you, what can we do to make things better?" who would he address? How would that person come up with an answer? on his own?

[-] 2 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 12 years ago

Man, I'm telling you that we don't even need a demand. We have the solutions and we're going to act on them. Get behind us!

[-] 0 points by npowell85 (249) from Montana City, Mt 12 years ago

I'm all for real change in america but after searching for hours on this forum I still can't figure out what problem you are trying to solve... I can't get with it if I don't know what "it" is. Please don't take this as me being obstinant, I really do appreciate you guys out there protesting but if you want the support of all of us american who can't make it to NYC, if you want this to be bigger than you few in NY then you guys need a message. You need a goal. You guys want news coverage, what are they to report? People in the streets protesting....um.... they aren't sure yet? Thats just not very powerful

[-] 1 points by 722442457 (11) 12 years ago

Peace and love brother. That's what "IT" is about. I dont think this is a protest movement. It is more of an awakening. You can stay asleep if you like. The change in mankind will come with or without you.

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 12 years ago

Okay, in my opinion (and I stress that this is just my own thinking) what you would be getting behind is democracy and horizontal power. I guess technically this country is a republic, but it is principles of democracy that are so beloved by our countrymen and women. However, this country does not have a representative form of government AT ALL in its present state. Our politicians are bought and sold, over and over again, regardless of party affiliation. Therefore, we are practicing democracy because they refuse to! And our democracy recognizes HUMAN needs before profits at all costs.

[-] 1 points by Laurenceofberk (16) 12 years ago

" this country does not have a representative form of government ."

Of course you are right, Heart. But you can't address this problem on the level of government alone. As long as you leave hundreds of billions of dollars in the hands of individual private corporations, and trillions in the aggregate, they will rule. It doesn't matter what form of government you put up.

It surprises and saddens me that although the demo is on Wall Street, so few people are talking about models for a new ECONOMIC system.

[-] 1 points by npowell85 (249) from Montana City, Mt 12 years ago

Please read my forum post entitled "Freedom is the only goal". I've been following the efforts of the protesters for a few days and trying to figure out just what the solution is, do you agree with my assessment? Thanks for the debate, I really am greatful for your sacrifices and want to help out. Just trying to understand and maybe help further the cause