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Forum Post: You gotta change yourself before you change the world.

Posted 1 year ago on March 22, 2013, 10:39 a.m. EST by HCabret (-327)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

You gotta change yourself before you change the world.

If you can't change yourself; then how do expect to change other people?

103 Comments

103 Comments


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[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

LAME.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Id rather be LAME than whatever you are. ;)

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Call me what you would like just don't call me late for dinner.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28045) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Late call for dinner - when I was younger - that would be a deadly insult.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

exactly.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28045) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Have you figured out what "IT" is? ( HCabret )

I mean besides argumentative.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

IT is what IT is. Does it matter any further than that?

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

GEN Y here bud...... :)

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Is that your reason or excuse for being ignorant?

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

No. My excuse for being ignorant is that "I am human and all humans are ignorant."

Are you a genius?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

how socratic of you.

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

What ever floats my boat......

Are you a genius?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

is there a particular reason you are inquiring?

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

You said that I am ignorant for not understanding your statement. I asked if you are a genius. Better way to put it: Are you ignorant?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Seriously? Now that is funny.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

The first sign of ignorance is denial.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

i maybe an underachiever but i am far from ignorant.

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Like i said, the first sign is denial.

Humans are by nature ignorant. Much of our problems stem from the fact that large amounts of individuals dont recognize this fact.

If we were anything but 'ignorant', than we would not need to argue about anything or dicuss things.

Ignorance is not a bad thing.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

you are killing me with your socratic bullshit.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (380) 1 year ago

I believe what you are saying is that we need more tolerance and compromise. We all have own ingrained beliefs and opinions, some of them "deeply" held. But you are right. Even deeply held beliefs need to be opened up to a "self review", based on listening to other's well written or spoken thoughts. If one really has intention to change something, he too must be willing to change as well. One must also accept the decisionsof others as well. Two well written sentences that say a lot with a little! Gracias.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

"You gotta change yourself before you change the world."

I agree and i believe you should always strive to make yourself a better person, and I see that in Occupy too

But what do you do when someone pushes you or hurts the people that you love

It's kinda neat to know that you have an indomitable spirit in you to deal with it

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

You turn the other cheek.

They want you to push back. If you push back, they win.

Courage is in saying no, not in saying yes.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I wish human nature wasn't what it is, and that I could heed your advice, but I can't

I will let people push me further than most people would in thinking maybe that person just had a bug up his ass, or some kind of problem

Many people also mistake you/me being a nice guy, as a sign of weakness, and use it as a ticket to walk all over you

It is at that point, I LASH out in a big way.....and that sometimes is what it takes so the lines are redrawn for the better, and very often you can go onto have a good relationship with that person as he then respects you

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Turning the other cheek is not a sign of weakness nor an unwillingness to stand up for one's self. You should turn the other cheek in defiance. Challenge your oppressor to hit you again.

Non-violence is about shaming your oppressor. Especially if it is the US government. The government and it's military whine about how important honor and courage and bravery and all that bullshit is. When you take away thier honor and expose thier lack of courage and conviction, YOU WIN!!!!

Fight back by standing up for yourself. Dont give in to violence or hate.

Love your enemy!!!!!

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Our revolution is being conducted much in the Ghandian-like way that you have outlined in your sage advice

This is a classy struggle and the people that I know who are close to the heart of this struggle in NY are truly some of the best people that I have ever known

A woman, a young grandma who i met recently reiterated those feelings to me

Much of what we do is to expose the "lack of honor" of the system itself, and those people who are benefiting from and perpetuatng it

Nobody that i know is promoting violence, and there is very little hatred evident, and none from me either

Still though on the day to day battles in fighting the forces of.... on this forum especially.... those who are either purposely, or inadvertently trying to diffuse this movement by having it become partisan, it is difficult for me to follow your advice sometimes

Because I simply will not let our struggle devolve into another partisan hate-fest which would be counter-productive, nor will i let the right wingers crush this movement

I do my best not to initiate odious behavior, but i don't back away from it, nor am i intimidated by it here or in real life

Like everyone else, I am flawed, but i am working on it, truly

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by engineer4 (380) 1 year ago

I was much more stubborn when I was younger, and age can be a good understanding process, just wished I learned what I know now 40 years ago. But we all have that to overcome. Yet, Some people already have it when they are younger. I have what my parents gave me, but when younger, I never realized I had it. One of my own goals here is to find common ground, which includes me also. Would not it be great if during our grade school years, that listening and tolerance would be as important as the three Rs? .PS...hard not to defend people you love, especially family. ..do not have any regrets there.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Being stubborn or hard-headed doesn't always have to be a detriment, but rather it can be an attribute as well

When you are able to see a problem clearly and objectively, it usually takes some tenacity or 'stubborness,' and peseverance to overcome that problem

My advice for what it is worth is to never let anyone redefine you, and never be deterred by anyone when you have set your goal

My problem was, I used to carry grudges...no more though.

I do kinda like 'annoying the hell out of people' that I regard as being insincere & small-minded...

I am working on that dreadful trait..tho.....laughing

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

We need more gadflys. A good gadfly is stubborn, defiant and totally free.

'annoying the hell out of people' is part of the process. Dont be offended by the Gadfly, listen to it and try to be as offensive as possible back at it.

Im fighting ignorance and obedience, not stubborness. :)

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Mother Jones was a gadfly I reckon

I don't usually hold much back with the exception of not wanting to hurt people unnescessarily

Everyone should be fighting something, and taking stock in themselves every so often to see that daily battles in life do not be what life is about

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

There are non-violent gadflys and there are violent gadflys. I guess i should of differentiated between the two.

I want people to think for themselves, learn on thier own(as best they can) and not wait for others to do the same before they can.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I am a firm believer that in recruitng people to our struggle, we should just mostly put out the facts, statistics and trends over the last 30-40 years

And then let people decide for themselves, hence in the hybrid flyer i made up and spread on a regular basis, it ends with Choose The World That Your Kids Grow Up In... Support Occupy Wall Street, or Don't Complain and the Corrupt Status Quo Will Continue By Default...The Choice Is Yours

Spain's co-operatively owned La marea magazine has the same approach

http://www.nationofchange.org/spain-s-rebellion-moves-print-1359212971

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I think the whole thing is lost if people cant come to a decision on their own independant of me or you or anyone else.

I can talk and 'recruit' all I want, but in the end it is irrelevant if the person I am trying to convince doesnt come to their own realization.

This shouldnt be like getting members for a political party that will follow a leader blindly, nor should it me group-think organization that focuses on collectivism.

Self Rule, Self Thought, Self Ownership. That is what Im all about.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

There is a lot that has to be worked out, but considering how rotten the system is, I think most of us are unified in wanting it to be replaced with something better.

But yes there are other people who just want major reforms. For now we are all on the same path.

Whatever you choose to do to advance our common cause (if it is yours too) is up to you.

So if Occupy does not meet your criteria for progressing to a Better World, you should go somewhere else that does

The first priority there, unless you are happy with the current system will be dumping the corrupt neoliberal capitalism that is burying people

It's your call, and remember you are making it for your progeny too

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by engineer4 (380) 1 year ago

Do not fix that, we need the entertainment!

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

O....K then, I'll leave it be

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

More tolerance than comprimise, but yes.

People should not give up thier beliefs for the sake of comprimise, but All people should accept that at least one other person out there almost certainly disagrees with you on just about everything.

You cant fight violence using violence. You yourself first must stop using violence before you can convince others to do the same. Otherwise you are only a dirty hypocrite.

Muchos de nadas!

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

BAM!!

Good post.

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

I like how inclusionman stinkled your post.

Gracias por los kudos!

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

He stinkles all OTP's comments. And mine. And Trevor's. And anyone else he disagrees with.

In fact, he's busy right now doing that very thing with his other usernames.

[-] 3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

An army of one :) haha

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Heheheh. That's a perfect description.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Its like an unstoppable rebel force, eating away at the bones of creativity.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yep. He's hard at it as we speak. Fifteen minutes ago my comment about Lennon and Harrison on that other thread was +5. Now it's zero. Plus look at the stinkles here. Fifteen minutes ago they were +1. And, amazingly, there's been no comments by inclusionman in the last hour at least. But I expect to see some soon, just to throw us off.

It's about time someone broke out that 'cone of shame' again, heheheh.

[-] -1 points by engineer4 (380) 1 year ago

VQ is part of the twinkle team, doubt they would let that happen......:-)

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I get this visual of him sliding around on the office chair, ten monitors glaring, stinkle finger clicking. Not a good look. Fixation has found a new action hero.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Imagine the toll it is taking on his life, i mean all those buttons to push..lol

I will give him this; He sure earns his money

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Must be on the yippy beans.

How the hell does he get around the one minute post delay?

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You're asking the wrong person about hi tech stuff, but i suspect since he is probably on the payroll of the dems

Money is no object, hence neither are the one minute delays

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

"Stinkle finger." Wasn't that a song by 'Tool?' Just kidding.

I pity someone so self-absorbed.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yeah, good point. It's sad what this forum has become.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Nothing stays the same forever g. There's hope

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

It does have its ups and downs. It showed some improvement not too long ago with a number of new users but seems to have dipped again recently. Too many childish insults and shameless self-bumping. Mainly the childish insults.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

The twinkle team doesn't help either with their efforts to bring us into the same old

More and more, it is pissing me off as i realize that unity is not possible with people who are here for ulterior reasons

On my way to NY in an hour or so for the OTS/Rolling Jubilee event

I'm like a kid on Christmas Eve before these things as I do not sleep well the night before

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Gotta agree. This forum is frustrating at times.

Have a good day Odin. Sounds like it's going to be one. I'm getting ready to sign off in a minute. It's been an unusually long night.

See you tomorrow.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

I just got back from the OTS/Rolling Jubilee, which included a protest march to Union Square. It was a wonderful long day

I had many good conversations, and the camaraderie was palatable

One woman who was a bit younger than me, and who had lived in Kansas, France, and now New York told me what I have said several times on here, and that was, "These are some of the best people that I have ever known in my life."

BTW, have your ever made 25-35 lbs. of 'radically' good pasta salad in-between answering a partisan's clueless misconception of what this rev is about? ;-) Just wondering......

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

No, unfortunately, I can't really say I have, heheheh.

You know, Odin, listening to you just shows me what a truly boring life I lead. Have I ever mentioned that I really need to get out more? ;-)

"Kansas, France, and New York." Now that's a well-rounded existence.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Replying here. lol...When I started answering the partisan's comment, I knew I had about three minutes to go back to the pasta to make sure that they were not sticking to the bottom of the pot, and then I had another 7-8 mins to answer....any longer the dang noodles would have been limp....none were

Then if I had a more difficult comment to ponder, or come up with a smart-ass answer to...well that was when I cut the broccoli up, or drained and washed the chick peas...laughing

Between my trips to NYC, boredom can set in here too, but lately I have alleviated that by taking on the partisans

And it was not all fun. Have you ever tried to manuever a cart full of pasta salad through a NYC subway turnstile? It was quite perplexing to me until i finally figured out what those big doors at the end were for lol

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Those are service doors, Odin.

Service doors.

You crack me up at times. heheheh

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Thanks..you too.....I'll be on late tonight again

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's really disappointing that the people who set this place up have simply left it to tools like VQ to destroy. He got busted for his "self-absorbtion" once before. I guess he might have switched ISP's or running his dribble through proxy servers to play his games.

If Shadz stopped coming up with all that wonderful and sometimes scary information he finds, I'd leave the stinkle finger to it.

[-] 3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Shadz is a gem

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You can say that again.

A tireless worker for the cause. And has a family as well.

I think he's from the Old Dart.

[-] 3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You know he must be good when an Aussie compliments an Brit

I thought he was from London

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yeah? It's all good.

My family on mother's side is from Kent.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

My Mom's sde is from southern England somewhere, let'see, Castle Donnington I think

I did notice the last time i was in NZ, the Irish took the brunt of a lot of jokes

Hopefully that isn't so anymore

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

My Mom's sde is from southern England somewhere, let'see, Castle Donnington I think

I did notice the last time i was in NZ, the Irish took the brunt of a lot of jokes

Hopefully that isn't so anymore

~Odin~

I remember a big run of Irish jokes here about forty years ago.

I've met heaps of Irish backpackers, and not once have I had to speak slowly. LOL

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You're bad....lol

You can tell a Swede, but you can't tell him anything....'cause he already knows it all....lol

~Odin*~

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3703) 1 year ago

A-hem. Is that the same for a Swedish girl? Lol!

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

With Swedish women, from my experiences, although not ever married to one...they are 'feisty,' and a bit hard-headed

So it is not always easy living with one, but there is no good alternative because

From my point of view air-heads are unacceptable

BTW Renny did i hear you were getting married? Is she Swedish?

If so make sure she observes Santa Lucia day & that you get coffee & Swedish cardamon cake in bed, in the morning

It's a great tradition from a guy's standpoint anyway ;-)

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

"At this time g, i would like to apologize for my Viking ancestors in pillaging your villages, and leaving behind that nasty grog swilling habit."

Well, most of us have gotten over yer Viking pillagin' (that feckin' Cromwell), but the grog swillin' we're actually pretty grateful fer.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

;-)......Good Night g

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

"Many Swedes had a much better time when they were pagans though so they are a little pissed at the Italians lol"

Hey, many of us Irish had a much better time when we were pagans, too, so some of aren't too happy with that fuckin' St. Patrick either!

Legend has it that although St. Patrick journeyed to almost every corner of the 'Emerald Isle,' he refused to enter the 'Vale of Duhallow,' where my father's ancestors came from. Since no one really knows whether St. Patrick actually existed, I'm sure the legend is total b.s., but for some reason I like the sounds of it.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

At this time g, i would like to apologize for my Viking ancestors in pillaging your villages, and leaving behind that nasty grog swilling habit

We have come a long way from those days. We now eat with forks; say please and thank you, and are gentleman most of the time anyway

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3703) 1 year ago

Lol! You heard about the upcoming nuptials, then.

She's a real sweetheart...plays the fiddle too!

I'm the Swedish girl in the blissful union...but she has enough of the 'feisty' in her, not to mention she knows how to make Swedish lingonberry pancakes, that she's an honorary Swede, in my adoring eyes.

Never mind the cardamon cake...I can't wait to see her in that white Santa Lucia gown!! ~.^


With Swedish women, from my experiences, although not ever married to one...they are 'feisty,' and a bit hard-headed

So it is not always easy living with one, but there is no good alternative because

From my point of view air-heads are unacceptable

BTW Renny did i hear you were getting married? Is she Swedish?

If so make sure she observes Santa Lucia day & that you get coffee & Swedish cardamon cake in bed, in the morning

It's a great tradition from a guy's standpoint anyway ;-)

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Is that true about Swedish women, Renneye? Feisty and a bit hard-headed?

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Congratulations Renny! I'm happy for you.

I've heard this guy in Vermont play the fiddle, and it is difficult to keep your feet still when he is playing.. His daughter who is a friend of one of my daughters also plays very well I've heard.

Lingonberry (high-bush cranberries in AK) pancakes. Cool! Now all you need is some VT maple syrup and you're all set. You never get promoting VT products completely out of your blood. ;-)

"Honorary Swedes" deserve an enormous amount of credit for putting up with all our bullshit Renny....lol..

I will always have respect for my NZ ex for having kept the Swedish traditions alive which included not only the coffee & cardomon cake in bed, but also bringing our kids to rehearse for and take part in Santa Lucia Day at The Nordic Inn every year

Santa Lucia is a beautiful celebration that has different interpretations, lets see...light (starts increasing the first day of winter)....then renewal...growth...hope, and some say when Christianity was first brought to Sweden by the Italian missionaries, hence it is celebrated in certain parts of Italy too

Many Swedes had a much better time when they were pagans though so they are a little pissed at the Italians lol

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (1698) from Island Heights, NJ 52 minutes ago

"I had three of them at 21 years old."

May I remind you Builder that this is a family forum....lol

I do remember where my Swedish dad, and my German ancestry maternal grandpa hit heads from being too much alike probably

~Odin~ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>

You got me. I had three German wolunteer verkers aged 21 years trying to tell me how every goddamn thing should be done.

Okay, we got that sorted out. We can talk about them eating me out of house and home later.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

That's nothing, i worked with a Frenchman who liked to argue over how to do a ten minute job for a half an hour

~Odin~

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

That applies to German lads too.

I had three of them at 21 years old. Couldn't tell them anything.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

"I had three of them at 21 years old."

May I remind you Builder that this is a family forum....lol

I do remember where my Swedish dad, and my German ancestry maternal grandpa hit heads from being too much alike probably

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Yep. There aren't too many reasons I stick around anymore either. There's only a small handful of people worthy of intelligent conversation left.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

There are other options.

I guess I just got used to the format here, or something.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

It is habit-forming, for some reason. I've left a number of times, but keep coming back. But that doesn't mean I won't leave permanently at some point.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yeah, there's forums I drop in on just to read.

This might become one of them.

Can't for a minute comprehend the lengths some people (maybe just one person) go to for a point score.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

It's kinda sad, but most likely, that is pretty much all they have

~Odin~

[-] -3 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

One person mainly. You have no idea what that boy's done just for the points. Well, you probably do, but it's obsessive. On occasion I'll go thru old posts looking for something. Try it sometime. You'll see that every comment of his on the entire thread has somehow magically garnered six, seven, eight points per comment. Every comment on the whole thread. But, strangely, no one else in the history of this forum gets that kind of action. And he thinks people don't notice that and constantly claims "The points are meaningless. Stick to the issues."

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

the best kind! I hope he understands that he do more by himself than wasting his time trying to convince the morons who use this website; myself included.

;)

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

gnomunny, I'm pissed...you left me out! ;-)

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I didn't realize you'd fallen under his wrath! When did this happen? Somehow I missed it.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Well I haven't yet, under his current pseudonym, but under VQkag, come on man you remember

Errr, i just don't like being left out of the 'stinkled club'...that's all

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

I'm getting forgetful in my old age. Damn this Alzheimers! ;-)

I do remember, now that you mention it. I beg forgiveness for such a blatant oversight.

~g~ heheheh

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Thanks :-)

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Narley (280) 1 year ago

Interesting thought. But I’m pretty happy with who I am and don’t really don’t want to change. I’m a nice guy. I’m honest and law abiding. I like to think I’m ethical and compassionate toward others. I’ve been married longer than most people have been alive and never even thought about cheating. I am a good family man, raised responsible children and now enjoy the grandkids.

I’m very liberal on some issues and very conservative on other issues. I own guns, but understand why some people shouldn’t. I’m not a member of any political party or any special interest organization (not even the NRA).

I like to think I can see other points of view; and can change my mind when it’s proper. I hate “hate”; and I see a lot of it on this forum. If we’re going to find solutions we will have to be able to talk to people we don’t agree with. That means compromise and discussion. So, take a Tea Party member to lunch today. I often take my staunch conservative brother to lunch.

[-] 2 points by itsmyblood (10) 1 year ago

there is no compromising with the ignorant. that is a fools game.

[-] 2 points by Narley (280) 1 year ago

People arn't ignorant just because they don't agree with you.

[-] 1 points by itsmyblood (10) 1 year ago

And just because you take a position does not mean it has equal value as the truth.

[-] -1 points by Narley (280) 1 year ago

That works both ways. You think your message is the truth and I think my beliefs are the truth. Unfortunately truth is often subjective.

Case in point it's true that tens of millions of gun owners have never hurt anyone. That's the truth. But you still want their guns. See where I going here.

[-] 0 points by itsmyblood (10) 1 year ago

Beliefs are not truths.

[-] -1 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Truth is always subjective. Only facts are absolute, and Im not sure that there are many facts out there to be had.

[-] -2 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

People are ignorant because they choose to be. There IS a cure for ignorance.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You sound like a good guy

I go to dinner with conservative friends (3 generations) of mine every week, and they let me copy Occupy outreach stuff in their trucking co. office

Every week I hone my skills in trying to convince them what has been going on

They are softening, but still....

Good Night

~Odin~

[-] -3 points by HCabret (-327) 1 year ago

Good thoughts.

Change will come no matter; it is wise to direct itin correct direction though.

Don't stop growing just because you've reached the summit; don't stop improving because there is no limit to space.

You are good, while you could be Great!