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Forum Post: You are becoming violent, oppressing the rights of others and assaulting camera people

Posted 3 years ago on Nov. 11, 2011, 4:13 p.m. EST by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

OWS, the Youtubes of Occupiers threatening and assaulting documentarians and newscrews are mounting. I'll put my message in two ways: a gentle way and then a more blunt way.

  1. Gently, you are really discrediting your movement. If violence and destruction continue the tide of public opinion will turn against you in a harsh way.

  2. Bluntly: if I show up on public property and I wish to document, if you oppress my rights or assault me, I will respond with superior force and I will defend my rights and myself. I will resist you as I would any other violent oppressor. And this kind of thing might make it in liberal, disarmed NY or CA but DON'T try this in Arizona or any armed state. Your right to protest does NOT negate the rights of any other individuals.

This assumes that your movement wants to remain nonviolent. If not, well, if violence you want then violence you can have.

Some references:

http://www.pixiq.com/article/occupy-san-diego-activists-attack-woman-recording-them http://www.pixiq.com/article/occupy-portland-protester-turns http://www.pixiq.com/article/occupy-vancouver-protesters-assault-videographer http://www.pixiq.com/article/joey-boots-harassed-and-threatened-for-video-recording-girl http://www.pixiq.com/article/occupy-wall-street-protester-threatens-to-stab-reporter http://www.pixiq.com/article/media-shuts-down-cameras-as-oakland-pd-fires-tear-gas http://www.pixiq.com/article/occupy-activists-need-to-brush-up-on-first-amendment-law

Stay friendly! Have a nice day!

46 Comments

46 Comments


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[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 3 years ago

Carlos Miller is a guy in Miami who started an influential blog called, "Photography Is Not A Crime", to assert his right to photograph police. In Miami and in Miami Beach, we have a particular problem with police attempting to prevent people from recording them.

So it is unbelievably embarrassing and discrediting to the Occupy movement that Carlos Miller is now talking about the Occupy Miami protesters who, rather than supporting Miller's right to photograph anybody in a public place, are joining the cops in trying to intimidate him.

Another one for my growing collection of embarrassing contradictions within the Occupy movement.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

the US oversea wars have been violent all along

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Yeah and they sucked on this continent too.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

I heard the writ of Habeas corpus ( accounting for prisoners taken)

is suspended for non-citizens

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

It's even worse. Under GWB's "patriot act" we are imprisoning, torturing and executing American citizens. Secret jails and secret tribunals, there is no more habeas. That's a thing of the past but maybe we can make it a thing of the future.

[-] 1 points by othmar (2) from New York, NY 3 years ago

Charming!

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Scope creep. Mission creep.

First the 1% was charactarized by the super wealthy, the elites that are our common enemy but now the 1% seems to include anybody who disagrees with you or in the case of independent journalists, all journalists.

You are already alienating allies. All of the links I supplied were gathered from one site, that of Carlos Miller of PINAC (photography is not a crime) and this crew totally supported you guys. Until they were violently attacked. Now they view you as opposition, in other words, people who suppress the rights of others to document in public spaces.

That's not good folks. Making enemies of friends? How can anybody call that a good thing?

And I'm sorry if it hurts but I'm not telling you this for my benefit, I benefit not at all but every time you alienate a sector of normal people just like you society, you loose a point. You are slipping one percentage point at a time. Now you are just the 98% or the 97 and next comes the 96% and ultimately you will represent nobody but yourselves. Which means you will have isolated yourself. Painted yourselves into a corner as it were and nobody is gonna want to reach over and help you.

Ask yourselves why I say this. To be popular? Nope. I say this because I want you to do well and communicate to America and I want you to make positive impact.

[-] 1 points by Fatdyke69er (1) 3 years ago

I like like mustard and cheese in my pussy

[-] -1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Utterly disgusting

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 3 years ago

Let's put it this way news crews. I don't necessarily represent the movement, but you're presenting a false (or at best "unfair") logic:

When one group is oppressed and fights back it is JUST. When another group, who are the benefactors of oppression "fight back" it is NOT just.

Do you see the difference? Freedom of the Press was given to uphold the principles of democracy, not to ensure the power of the oppressors. Get your fucking mind straight idiots.

And don't presume, like in your 1st point, that you know public opinion.

On that note, to the occupiers, it may be wise to use more cunning means to block camera crews who are against the principles of the movement.

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

how is it wise to block the rights of others? how is it wise to deprive others of the rights you assert for yourselves?

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 3 years ago

If I take all your land, make a system of law that says it is mine (like "right to property") and then (attempt to) obliterate any traces of the injustice, what mechanisms will be left but force?

Or how about this example: why doesn't your body's immune system use "non-violence" to resolve all differences?

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

1) Yeah, no, you can't do that--and we shouldn't do that. People from Fox or the Tea Party or the Koch Brothers themselves want to record, the 99% has to allow, if it's on public property. The point is that we have nothing to hide, but those people in the first video (haven't looked at the others yet) are abrogating the rights of the guy with the video camera). Here's the law on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law

Public property "It is generally legal to photograph or videotape anything and anyone on any public property, with some exceptions made for certain portions of military installations that have national security sensitivity.[38]

Photographing or videotaping a tourist attraction, whether publicly or privately owned, is generally considered legal, unless explicitly prohibited by posted signs."

2) This is a non-violent movement. Not everyone agrees that it should be, but they really don't represent the movement. This was clear from the OWS principles at the outset. Those people who attacked the camera people are allowed to be pissed off, but they're not within their rights to undertake violence--just like the rogue gang in Oakland that did so. This is not about breaking the law or violent reactions.

3) The poster's first point is valid--it does undermine the movement.

4) The poster fails to understand that not everyone who acts violently represents the movement--they don't. In fact, any and all violence should be publicly and roundly rejected by all 99% Occupy movements. This is true just like not everyone in the Tea Party conflated Obama with Hitler (although it's clear nothing was done to weed those people out or shout them down, so, not sure which is worse, in a way...).

I'm with the 99% movement, but this is a transparent democracy, and any and all light should be shed on the movement's actions--just as they are allowed and encouraged to do in Z. Park's General Assembly.

Peace.

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Well put but outsiders and anyone viewing the videos will attribute the actions of the few to all of you. And I can tell you as a part-breed native, just because you have been oppressed does not justify oppression of others. If it did, I would be fully justified in using violence against any white person on this continent. But it doesn't does it? If I hurt you with no provocation, that would be wrong of me. Well the same applies to you and everybody else.

Groobiecat2, thanks for recognizing this. Guys, I'm not worried about me, I'm like 800 miles away from you. I'm worried about you guys and as hard as it is to understand, I care about you and your movement.

[-] 1 points by groobiecat2 (746) from Brattleboro, VT 3 years ago

Well stated. Agreed on all fronts. One must practice what one preaches, and this movement is inherently non-violent. That said, it's incredibly difficult to ensure that all people adhere to the basic premise of the movement. Here's the declaration:

http://www.nycga.net/resources/declaration/

Peace is a core element. The people in those videos would do well to read up on it...

[-] 0 points by stevo (314) 3 years ago

NO NO NO...Just start punching any cameraman that gets close enough. Don't be wimp. Those people are probably rich and therefore evil. Go ahead...cold cock them. No apologies.

[-] 0 points by Fatdyke69er (1) 3 years ago

I have pimples around my brown eye! Who want to play puss popping around the brown eye?

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

disgusting

[-] 0 points by Fatdyke69er (1) 3 years ago

Chaz Bono gives great head. Went from a dyke to a homo. What a transition!

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

very base

[-] 0 points by TheKing (93) 3 years ago

That first one from San Diego is typical of OWS. Violence will increase. Notice the profanity outbursts. OWSers have collective Tourette's syndrome.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

punctuate with references to fornication

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

I understand that this is generally an exception to the rule but what I see is OWS has attracted so many young people with no training in non-violence. Some of your young people are using the tools at their disposal and for many of these it's street-teaching. I don't blame them for their environment but you should recognize how this is playing in the news and on the net. Bildo and the Hannitizer are eager to find these tubes and make them national news.

OWS needs all the friends it can get even if you are the mighty 99%. And by the way, you guys have "scope creep". The definition of 1% is not based on economics anymore, it's anybody who disagrees with you and guess what that makes you?

Less than 99%. Every time you exclude somebody you loose another percentage point.

Don't paint yourselves into a corner.

[-] 0 points by pissedoffconstructionworker (602) 3 years ago

This OP perfectly sums up the belligerent mindset of the modern victim-conservative. Poor victim-conservative, his rights infringed by angry hippies!

It just captures the "vibe" of the Zeitgeist with unintended eloquence.

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Poor victim? Lolz! You are incapable of victimizing me. And you aren't a hippy, don't slander that term with your hate and violence. Hippies were people of peace.

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[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Indeed. There is much anti-OWS propaganda and guess where they are getting it? From the very same tubes i linked. So. Do you want to attack the person who comes to warn you as a friend or will you be attacked by those who wish to tear you down?

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 3 years ago

Yes lets all listen to the Indian Marxist, because it worked so well in India. Having been to India, a country with twice as many people living in poverty than AMerica has in total. A country with little or no clean water, and filth in the streets, people drinking sewer contaminated water, and little access to real healthcare, India does not stand as a model of civilized society. Clean up your own mess before you decide to tell us whats best in America.

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Besides, your disdain for continental indians is interesting as the Mahatma Ghandi who started non violent civil disobedience is from continental India. So you just slandered your spiritual and intellectual forebears. Guess how much chance of success you have in the Ghandian tradition with your attitude?

ZERO.

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 3 years ago

I love Indians. I have been there several times. They are the nicest people in the world, however they are also misdirected and their beliefs prevent them from being realistic. Kind of like naive children for the most part. So they have so much poverty and pollution and can't change it. Why i said they need to focus on their own country before jumping on the bandwagon to try to fix ours.

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Very good but you have the wrong continent. My blood is native american and this is my land.

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 3 years ago

globalfreedom is from India, I happen to be 1/8th native American as well.

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

yat-eh! This is some new medicine: we don't want you to think of yourself as 1/8th. You aren't a part, you are a whole. To me the percentage doesn't matter, you are blood.

Ishinkin Neeonerat, Wiligishk'u

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 3 years ago

I am white as the snow, and all through high school they kept bringing me in to give me a Native American scholarship to school. I kept rejecting it because i felt it deserved to go to a full blooded Native American raised on a reservation who would certainly benefit from it more than I. I certainly have a great appreciation of Native Americans, and have always lobbied in favor of breaking the bonds that the government continues to oppress them with. Mattaponi

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Wow. You are well traveled. You know both kinds of indians. OK so you are really lucky you didn't go the the "schools" they were places of torment. But something in you responds to this. You might just have some "blood" in you. Your advocacy is appreciated. Now what does Mattaponi mean and what people's language is that?

Wiligishk'u. That basically means "greetings, take off your moccasins and stay for a while".

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 3 years ago

Mattaponi is the tribe my ancestors came from in Virginia, a part of the Algonquins that met the settlers at Jamestown. I wasn't speaking the language. I don't know it. Family geneology goes back in America into the early 1600s. My full blooded Native American ancestor was back in the 1900s. My grandmothers father. I don't claim to be native american only because i am too white to be afforded such honor. I have no way to relate the subject of being imprisoned on some land by another race like the native Americans. The greatest shame of America is what we did to the natives. In my local area i am friends with the Porch Creeks, i know both the chiefs and several members of the tribal councils. Great people and funny as hell.

[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

Virginia? Wait a sec, that doesn't put you in Algonquinn land, that puts you right in the Delaware Confederacy to which my people were aligned. You and I might not be as distant as we might think.

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 3 years ago

Mattaponi were one of the 6 Algonquin tribes taken over by Chief Powhatan. The other major native American branch close by were the Iroquois who included the Mohawk and the Onondago among others. Technically if you look at any old maps of the land the Alqonquins maintained most of the coastline including Delaware and the Iroquois tribes maintained vast portions of the inland area. My grandmother told me early on that her father was a Mohawk descendent, but he died very early when she was young, and my mother did the geneology and found out he was actually Mattaponi, which puts him as Algonquin based rather than Iroquois. It is very difficult to verify all of this certainly, and i have spent a long time trying to get to the bottom of it. I don't really think there was much distinction between the two, as that is ancient history and both major cultures blended together through wars and conquest.

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[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 3 years ago

Wow. "Disputed"? Like that matters at ALL to the real 99%.

[-] 0 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

It's being disputed in chat but the videos speak for themselves

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[-] 1 points by tumbleweed (36) from Bayonne, NJ 3 years ago

lacks substance

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