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Forum Post: WOW... Thats a good message to send!

Posted 2 years ago on Oct. 24, 2011, 5:31 p.m. EST by REALamerican (241)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

So i get on the chat to discuss with a few people my disagreements with occupy wall street and I get booted for "trolling". Wow that must be "real" democracy at work. I am so glad I have the right to discuss my opinion too! Thanks guys!

146 Comments

146 Comments


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[-] 3 points by enlightened (177) 2 years ago

Oh no, not another victim

Ooooh poor you

Make a forum and cry and whine and "pretend"

Bless your little right wing heart

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

lol. did i whine? No. i simply stated my opinion of the movement. something that the movement is obviously fond of. why is it that you can riot freely, but i am not allowed to state my opinion in a forum that you are welcome to just ignore. and you know nothing of my political background, and frankly it doesnt matter. Would you like to understand my frustration? simply scroll down and read the comments that rantcasey is posting and you will see why i am unhappy.

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

You still whining whiner??

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

lol you just wont quit will you? do you know the difference between voicing your opinion and whining? because i dont think you do!

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Yes I do. I caught you in a lie and you don't like it.

[-] 2 points by Nicolas (258) from Québec, QC 2 years ago

I concur. In my professional opinion, that was whining. Granted, we can't measure your heart rate or the inflections in your voice, but it seems to be a pretty clear cut case.

Of course, I might be entirely wrong. It's possible you were not, in fact, being willfully disruptive, and were booted unfairly. Unfortunate. Statistically unlikely. Even more unlikely to happen again. Buck up.

Democracy is not meant to be a shield for childishness or an excuse for wasting people's time. There is no slight against democracy in deciding someone is not adding to the discussion on this forum. Reposting "just get a job", "you're all nazis, and communists too!", "car poop", "you're all wasting your time" is not upholding the fragile rose of dissent, it's just being an asshole.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

lol, your argument is just as ridiculous, but i will respect you for at least presenting evidence and forming large complete sentences with more complex words. My point is, if you have honestly never in your life wanted to complain, then i guess you have a right to judge me. I can honestly say i was booted for no reason. and your point is my point. it is statistically unlikely and i would like for the "real" followers of this movement to know what some do in its name. ya know?

[-] 1 points by realpeople (15) 2 years ago

REALamerican , I don't visit the chat sessions, but I am willing to bet that you were being judgemental and uninformed (call it a hunch, call it reading your "name"). That annoy's me, thats for sure. I am a rather right leaning person, and I have found common ground here. People want to have intellegent discussions. If you can't cut it, and have to whine on the forum, then maybe this is not the place for you?

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

jeez. does everyone in the OWS assume and make judgements on people without being informed? please go away. your not even arguing or making conversation your basically just trying to call me out as a liar and a whiner.

[-] 1 points by realpeople (15) 2 years ago

I am sorry if you feel that way. I was just trying to understand why you felt the need to make the statements that you have made. As a normal human being, I am going to speculate. I am sorry if I am wrong, but you have not given me anything to change my mind. I am willing to listen. But, again, you have to give me something other than complaints.

[-] 0 points by Frankie (733) 2 years ago

Why, YES, they do.

If you disagree with them and they're liberal, then you don't know WTF you're talking about and you're a Koch-sucking, Faux News-watching capitalist pig.

If you disagree with them and they're conservative, then you don't know WTF you're talking about and you're are a dirty, stinky hippie who needs to get off of their ass and get a job.

If you disagree with them and they're Ron Paul fans, then they don't really care one way or another but they'll take it as an opportunity to spam you with more Ron Paul crap.

Welcome to OWS!

lmao

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

hahaha. that is oddly accurate....

[-] 0 points by Frankie (733) 2 years ago

Yeah, now STFU you communist bastard.

lmao

[-] 1 points by Nicolas (258) from Québec, QC 2 years ago

The first paragraph was in jest. Maybe it wasn't clear enough. I don't know that I have a professional opinion on whining.

It would be neat to be able to contact the moderators, whoever they are, about undeserved bans. But we have to be realistic. I doubt there are very many of them or that they have a lot of time to spend on it. And there are a lot of trolls. A balance must be found, between accepting mistakes and a dysfunctional forum (a balance currently tilting to dysfunction I might add). It's not like we're talking about jail time or the death penalty here. I'll take the edge off, but my advice really is to walk it off.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

lol im not upset by it. im not a believer in OWS. but i was offended that i came here to try and better understand it and i was like slapped in the face. that mod obviously has never worked as a sales guy, cause im definitely not buyin!

[-] 3 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Where are you being censored retard half the posts on here are troll posts which mean nothing. I just seen one about the antichrist Jews as vampires like this is a religous forum. You are harassing the site and will soon be sued by the nlg. Harassing people is not legal. Those who don't agree keep posting put those posting garbage will be tried in a civil court.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

I am not harassing anyone. lol you came here out of your own free will to read this post, I was simply voicing my complaint over being censored for no real reason. I dont appreciate the way you are speaking to me, and GOOD LUCK suing me. i havent said a single cuss or insulting word towards OWS, you however have slandered much more than I. :)

[-] 2 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

For being banned you sure are sending plenty of posts???

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

i got banned as a guest, then i created a real account. im sneaky ;)

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Everybody does it's not an attack on your civil rights. Oh yeah keep harassing the people here you will be sued.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

thanks but i have harassed no one. everyone is FREE to read this or ignore it, i have not used any slander or foul language. I would like to see them try to sue me.

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

You are filling the boards with spam and lies. You and others it is harrassing the movement and the lawsuits are coming. I promise who do you think you are allowed to do it. The group is gathering evidence. I would quit and post real topics not garbage. You aren't trying to have your voice heard you are trying to keep others voices down

[-] 0 points by occupierofwallstreet (0) 2 years ago

Lawsuits my ass. Little hypocrite talking about harassing people.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

seriously he harassed the crap out of me :/

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

What have I lied about? And what have i tried to sell you? NOTHING. That means this contains neither spam, nor lies. And you cannot sue me for voicing my opinion here, just as much as I cannot sue you. If you honestly think there is anything illegal that I am doing here than you know nothing of America and Her constitution. if you notice, I WAS THE ONE BLOCKED. for simply disagreeing. get your facts straight. look at what ive posted. i already said i have respect for peaceful protests, however YOUR words are violent and i do not appreciate. In fact, OWS probably doesnt appreciate you either, because you are making their movement look bad

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

You lied and said you were blocked from posting on this site but you are currently here posting right now.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Opinion noted, occupy-RantCasey Slogan: Do Not Care.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

No i said i was blocked from chat. i was on chat as a guest, got banned, and created a real account because i did not find it fair that i was blocked. I wanted people to know my rating of this movement, just like you would rate something you buy or a hotel or anything else that takes up your time. and i give you a low rating for being rather rude to me for no reason. not ONLY rude, but you were off-topic rude! rude just to be rude, not in defense. and i do not appreciate it.

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

So u weren't blocked guest was blocked;) you are a liar!! Liar

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

...? It was ME. and i was blocked from that chat room. even now i cannot get on it. Why are you so desperate to call me a liar? because i am calm and controlled and provide valid points without trying to shut you out? Because i can have a real american conversation for the sake of progress and all you wanna do is make yourself out to be a saint and I'm evil because i disagree? Thats very american of you :)

[-] 1 points by Bored (8) 2 years ago

don't listen to that guy RantCasey. He just got me on another post. He's just here to argue. I agree, I got booted too ( though I think I asked for it). but again, no one is saying anything in that chat room that you haven't already heard...

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

yeah. it goes WAYYY too fast anyway lol

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

If u don't like the movement say why don't make yourself to be a victim. You lie about that to make people think the movement is hypocritical it isnt. If you don't like something say what you dont like and give a solution. You apparently didn't like the movement to begin with start there don't fabricate lies.

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Ok guest you are blocked as guest . Because u pretend to be a victim to vilify a movement. Ok if they wanted you blocked why are they not blocking you here???

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Even if he did vilify a movement, how does that make you better? Even if he slanders the movement, how does that make you correct? Listen to his argument, formulate a clear and concise counter argument, prove to the people how he is wrong, and let the truth reign supreme.

Instead you censor him for having a different opinion, that just shows you don't care for freedom.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

probably cause whoever blocked me doesnt speak for this movement, which is supposed to be about freedom. which apparently you do not want since you blindly and angrily follow this movement. Which is wrong i might add. this movement. is wrong. Not totally, but mostly. and im sure your gonna get all angry and try to "sue" me for saying that but i am not harassing you. i am not angry, and you are welcome to leave this. i am simply stating my totally legal opinion.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

zing

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Snoob I showed the evidence he said he was blocked and he wasn't Guest was blocked. He was trying to act like a victim. I was blocked as guest too. This site is very fair about people's opinions being heard.

[-] 1 points by Cancelcurrency (72) from Anchorage, AK 2 years ago

the only solution is WorldRevolution

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

"I am so glad I have the right to discuss my opinion too!"

Well, you do and you don't. Sure you can discuss your opinions, but bulletin boards/forums are privately owned. Your posts can be deleted, edited and your account can be deleted.

You do not have the right to post on bulletin boards/forums. You have permission granted by the owners who can take it away at any moment.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

sounds like that pretty much sums up the communist/ socialist movement of your OWS group. thanks for clearing it all up :)

[-] 1 points by Shalimar (167) from Martinsville, IN 2 years ago

Then you don't understand communism or socialism. Don't feel bad. Most people don't.

What I described was democracy (where people have the right to govern their own lives and property). You own something, you get to say what happens to it.

Example: If you went on a street corner and started talking about how you hated a politician you would be within your right. You walk into a Baptist church and go up to the pulpit and start talking about how dumb they are and that there is no god they can toss you out on your ear.

Difference is the street belongs to the public (aka you) and the pulpit and the building it sets in belongs to the church and they have the right to say what goes on at their own property.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

yes but alot in the OWS want to make the street like the church, and let others decide what we should and shouldnt do, and THAT is why i will run away screaming bloody murder.

[-] 1 points by thinkboutit (2) 2 years ago

Trolls?? I thought they were extinct....

[-] 1 points by thinkboutit (2) 2 years ago

Trolls?? I thought they were extinct....

[-] 1 points by StevenRoyal (490) from Dania Beach, FL 2 years ago

I would be happy to debate you; however, could you please help translate this for me. You sound like you might b able to understand it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6FUR_nhGX8&feature=youtu.be

[-] 1 points by annie (132) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

yes this happened to me too. wasn't "gawdoftruth" was it? I am sorry for that. Not all of us feel that way.

[-] 2 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Haha I love that guy, his "facts" are all based off of opinion, and his arguments (after looking into them), more often than not, turned out to be completely wrong.

Do your own research, formulate your own opinion, don't just take what ANYONE person says to be fact.

[-] 1 points by annie (132) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

yes, done and done! thanks for sharing!

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

no idr what the name was but i couldnt hardly get a word out before i was blocked. lol

[-] 1 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

all it did was convince me to lose what little respect i had for the movement

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

That is kind of sad, :( I wish I could apologize for everyone... but I can't.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

To be honest I wasn't rude at all, I came to the website to learn more about the movement, and when I decided I disagreed about a few points i was immediately banned for trolling.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Actually, I am in general agreement with many of the stated goals of ows. Rant, I think you're out of line. Let this person express him(her) self.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

Him. haha and thank you. your sort of attitude is what can lead to the greater good. what rant is doing would stop all progress, because he is not willing to communicate. and communication is the KEY.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

To be honest this isn't the best forum to debate the subject, there is a lot of naivety on these forums. People argue points none-stop but hardly ever back them up with any concrete details.

None-the-less I respect your opinion and would be happy to civilize debate any topic of which you would like to discuss. On top of that if you are looking for information this is a great place to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APHfS46ngag

It's a bit over the top, and long, but it is the truth and will help you understand one part of the main issues.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

Hey thanks. thats more of the attitude i expected since im just curious. I mean even thought i disagree, i believe in the constitution and your right to protest. but there seems to be a more... radical movement within the movement thats against things like capitalism and the constitution. thats what bothers me

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

Hey thanks. thats more of the attitude i expected since im just curious. I mean even thought i disagree, i believe in the constitution and your right to protest. but there seems to be a more... radical movement within the movement thats against things like capitalism and the constitution. thats what bothers me

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Just because I believe in Ron Paul I get shot down on these forums and don't even get the opportunity to make a case. That's how America is unfortunately, but not all of us.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

So far I have avoided getting into a discussion with any of the Paul supporters but I would like to ask you about at least two issues. First let me say I think Ron is a sincere man. His anti-war statements and explanation of why Arabs hate us are correct ,at least to an extent. But my questions are: Do you support "free trade", and why would the gold standard fix things when it was in place in 1929 when the stock market crashed.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

And yes I believe in free-trade, why wouldn't you?

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

I believe it is the major cause of the unemployment situation in the US. I cannot understand why this isn't obvious to all of us. The primary source of real wealth generation in the world today is manufacturing. Not derivatives, not mortgage backed securities etc. Since this country adopted, or I should say re-adopted the free trade philosophy, mostly starting with the Reagan administration, and continuing with Bush, Clinton, Bush 2,and now Obama, millions of manufacturing jobs have gone to China alone, as well as other slave wage nations. This link does a good job of explaining it and has statistics. http://economyincrisis.org/

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

I agree with you once again, but how does regulating resolve the issue? This forces these companies to live and work only within the United States, it punishes them and in time may drive them to other lands. If these people could go to china, and sell their products in china, opposed to the US, than this would just create an economical isolation that would hinder America, not progress it.

The truth is in a free market, the corporations should have the freedom to trade anywhere, to get their materials from everywhere, and in turn it is up to the people to dictate the success of the company, not the governments.

For example, Apple employs child labor out the ass in china, pays next to nothing for their manufacturing, and does everything in their power to keep it that way. So, why should the government have the right to say that they are wrong? they shouldn't, rather in a free market it is up to the people to make this decision on behalf of the community/society. It is we who should boycott them, it is we who should stop purchasing the products that they make through child labor.

The government should work for the people, and so should their corporations. And it is up to us to dictate our societal morals, not the governments. Personal responsibility and accountability has been passed on to the government. Americans are tired of it, we need both back.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

That is the responsibility of government. It has been from George Washingtons' time. Please refer to this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_in_United_States_history

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Another thing I would like to point out is that my father works for HP, and his division has been threatened to move to china now for over 5 years. The thing is, Chinas GDP and economy is getting closer to Americas every single day. His division has decided it is more expensive to move (just about anywhere) in the world, and so they have decided to stay in the United States.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Okay I'm going to assume you chose your words carefully and mean every last one of them, and I am going to be a dick and break it down.

Chinese wages for factory workers are in the range of $60 to $140 a month, typically 12 hr days, 7 days a week. --- Fact, well articulated, and mostly accurate for a majority.

With no protection from this we (((WE, we the people, not the governments, not the corporations, WE))) effectively put our workers in direct competition with these "wage slaves" This has the effect of undoing all the workers rights that were won over the history of the US. (((If we fought as hard for our own wages, why can't we fight that hard for our own morals?)))

We have not ended slavery, we just moved it out of sight. (((Yes, yes we have, perfectly articulated)))

So as you can see, in general WE agree on the same semantics, the only difference is that you believe the government should be held accountable (and thus should regulate) for these corporations actions. Where as I believe WE should be held accountable because WE are the ones that are guilty, and though the corporations make the decisions, WE allow them to get away with it by buying the very products that they manufacture.

So I say sir, continue blaming others, but really, it is WE who are giving the corporations the authority. Stop buying their products, stop shopping at wal-mart, STOP BUYING SHIT MADE BY 12 YEAR OLDS. Companies will get the message, they will be forced to stop or go bankrupt, but than again, we'll probably just pay to bail them out.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Chinese wages for factory workers are in the range of $60 to $140 a month, typically 12 hr days, 7 days a week. With no protection from this we effectively put our workers in direct competition with these "wage slaves" This has the effect of undoing all the workers rights that were won over the history of the US. We have not ended slavery, we just moved it out of sight.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

I am highly knowledgeable on tariffs, In-fact I know that tariff's brought in so much money that American didn't even have a clue what to do with it all. But also keep in mind, in Washington's time it was also okay to own slaves and treat them like property. Now should that exclude all knowledge that they have presented us with? absolutely not. It just means that there are certain things the Founding Fathers couldn't account for. Namely technology.

The world has shrunk and the economy is global. What affects our neighbors, affects us now more so than ever. If we are to put up an economical barrier around America, that will just, in time, shut us off to the rest of the world, as the world catches up to America.

One thing that is important to note is, America is catching up to the rest of the world economically. Our standard of living is slowly coming down to the rising standard of living with the rest of the world. And in time that standard of living will plateau globally. We are currently experiences growing pains of a global economy, and because we are the big boy, those pains are generally more negative (for now) towards us.

So as the global economy grows, those tariffs early on may help us, will later on destroy us. It is a policy that is slowly becoming irrelevant in today's global economy.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Well I can't respond directly either,but I would put forth, a global economy is a choice. It is a choice as to how far we wish to carry the idea. It is not an inevitability. I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that the US would be worse off with tariffs. But on your statement about spending, (by the way that" blonde trophy wife in a shoe store"-funny). you may have a point but in economic terms, money spent in the US on goods produced in the US creates jobs in the US. Far more so than just retailing imported goods. The credit card thing is another issue, and yes it's crazy. I've seen people buy lottery tickets with credit cards.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Can't seem to reply to yours so I'll post it here in regards to your "well, here we have a difference in view."

First of all Abe Lincoln didn't exactly have a computer, or a global economy. You're right, in his time trading outside of the country was all fine and dandy, and tariffs were the way to go. And because of this the country made a lot of money.

Move along to 2011, we have a $189 billion deficit not because of the lack of money coming in, but because of the LARGE SUMS of money going out. We spend like a blonde trophy wife in a shoe store, impractically, and without regards to the consequences on the credit card.

With regards to your stimulus, they are a joke, and create bubbles that in the end hurt a great deal more. I would rather take a hit, than shoot myself in the foot.

As for Germany, their success is due in large part not because of their tariffs, but because in the recent past the corporations and the government got together. What did they discussed was keeping jobs in Germany, hell they didn't even regulate it, they just talked like civilized human beings, and convinced the German Loyalists to keep manufacturing jobs in Germany, wouldn't that be nice in America? So yes, they have the STRONGEST economy in all of Europe, and some argue the world. Because their people work for it.

As for Free Trade, it is a theory, a policy, a tactic. And, though they believed they had the freedom to own slaves, the declaration of independence says: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. You can't own that which is already free. Really you're just playing with words, it's semantics and somewhat a dirty trick.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Well, here we have a difference in view.I would like though to also point out that Abe Lincoln, the founder of the Republican party campaigned on a protectionist promise, which he kept. Also that the US continued to use tariffs for about 200 years. I would also like to point out that we now, since adopting free trade, have a trade deficit of $189 billion for this year up until just August, and just with China. That effectively cancels out any effect of stimulus,imo. Also would point out that Germany, is doing better than we are, and has not ever removed tariffs. I would also like to address the term "free" as in free trade. The confederate plantation owners felt that they should be "free" to own slaves.That it violated their "Individual Rights" to restrict slave ownership. My view is that free trade is "unregulated trade" and that it is undermining our nation.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

All be-it in time of war I believe tariffs are necessary.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

I actually used to be a huge advocater for tariffs, then I delved more into international economy, how we are all connected, and did some future analysis of how it would affect America, didn't look pretty.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

I guess what I'm trying to say is, free trade does work, but that's only if the people are willing to work for it. If you really want to be free, if you really want liberty, than the best thing you can do is ask yourself, who really is to blame? Does the government make you buy Ipods/touchs etc? No, that is your choice your freedom, and in doing so, it is also your choice not to buy it because the company itself over steps our societies moral bounds. They are around because people buy their products, their manufacturing facilities are in china because WE LET THEM. It's really time to stop finding blame in others and to start blaming ourselves, and if we never do, than this country is destined for a 1984 themed future.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

It is my belief that people choose to blame these corporatism and the government because it's easier than accepting the truth. It's easier to blame them than to do what is right. It's easier to blame the system, because people secretly don't care that the IPOD was made by the bloody hands of a 12 year old, because it doesn't directly affect them.

It's easier to be ignorant than to care.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

The gold standard truly began in American (legally at-least) in 1900 with the passing of the Gold Standard Act. It effectively ended in 1933 with Franklin D Roosevelt.

The Fed came into power in 1913, and had this glorious idea of LOANS. And so the people and government alike started taking out loans in by the troughs. In time those loans created an artificial balloon. Everything in the 20's was fantastic (Roaring 20's), but when the bubble burst in 1929, American's FREAKED OUT, and demanded that they get their money out of the banks. Only the banks had no money because they took out loans from the fed, and the fed had no money because they took out money from the foreign powers/governments. In reality, we had more debt than we had cash. Which is what really lead to the Great Depression.

Sound familiar?

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Yes, it's very familiar.But the point I was making was that the gold standard was not able to prevent the crash. It did nothing to prevent the bubble(s),or the crash.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Neither policy is really to blame for the crashes, we are to blame. The only thing is the gold standard policy is more stable, where as the FIAT policy (currently employed today) is controlled by people, and as you well know, people are corruptible.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Economy policies are not 100% of the economy, lets take today for example.

(I'm still looking into this so I don't have the exact facts), but legislation past a law requiring banks to give out mortgages that were in-point-of-fact, implausible.

So someone who made 50,000 a year could "afford" to get a house that was 250,000 because this legislation required that these banks issue mortgages with low down payments, and controlled interest rates. Meaning that the average American could buy a house well above their means and pay month to month. This essentially created a housing bubble, inflating the value and price of American real-estate.

When this artificial bubble busted, over night the value of property dropped in some instances to a quarter of what it was originally worth. This means that the balance sheet in these banks went from balanced, to broke over night.

The inflation caused by the FIAT policy also rose the prices of necessary goods shortly there after, making it so people could no longer afford to pay for these mortgages, also making it so banks lost out on a great deal of money. As the economy worsened, inflation continued to rise. People made less, worked harder for that, and millions upon millions of Americans got foreclosed on.

Now even a gold standard couldn't have saved that economy, and that is were the second part comes in REGULATIONS.

In a truly free economy there would have been no regulations, banks could have said "no" to people trying to buy houses that were well above their means, and the accountability would have been the banks alone. Really both depressions are due in part to the people, and the regulations.

In reality it's easy to blame the current system, when the truth of the matter is it was really US that caused the problem. Now that problem was due both to complacency and ignorance. People should have known better than to spend more than they could afford to, but the American dream was manipulated to say "you can live in a better means than you can afford" and it's that in which we are paying the price of today.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

I agree largely with the" it was us" part. I don't agree with the no regulation part. As far as the legislation I'm a little vague on the facts on that myself, but was under the impression the banks were encouraged and enabled more than forced. I don't think the banks were required to approve "liar loans" but if you have info. on that I'm not closed to it. The same deregulation and housing bubble preceded the Depression as well.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Yes I've only heard it and haven't read the facts on it myself, I'm still looking for it to confirm if it was real.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Yes but neither would any other policy for that matter. And to protect against it we went to a FIAT policy which look how that is doing for us today.

People say that the bailouts saved the economy, when in point of fact it just created another bubble. The worst is still yet to come, any economist will show that.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Sorry I never really answered your question.

The thing is the Gold Standard controls inflation, and inflation (in part) controls the standard of living. With a FIAT monetary policy the governments pump money out in order to spark the economy. However when that happens in time as that money saturates, instead of paying 1$ for a gallon of gas, you are paying 3$ for a gallon of gas.

With the gold standard, statistically you can always KNOW what the inflation rate is (proven to be approximately 3% the entire time we used it). Where as with the FIAT system we use now, the %'s are so high I'm scared to even look them up.

With that said there is 1 statistical analysis that is a little bit worrisome with the Gold standard. And really the only negative was that there is a higher % of unemployment. It was 6.8% in the years of the Gold Standard, opposed to 5.6% in the years of FIAT policy.

However, economists are not 100% sure if that is a direct correlation to the policies, or if it was just a coincidence, the inflation on the other hand, is 100% proven.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Yes that is a weakness of the so called "science" of economics.The can't prove much of anything. I see you've done some homework. If we look particularly at the 50s, employment was very high. Maximum unemployment in that decade was about 6% and was as low as 3% at one point. Real wages increased steadily through this period. All with fiat currency. I'm not saying because of it,but the facts are there.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Often times economists use the facts but ignore the psychology behind it. and the "science" of economics isn't just money. There are a plethora of other factors to take into account.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

You're absolutely right, but what caused that? World War 2 ended and a majority of the people in the country banded together to create a better world. They saw the evil's of tyranny and did what every they could to make the country a better place. People worked, spent money within their means, and things worked because the people worked. People with power generally cared for the people at the time, and so regardless of any system, in that kind of atmosphere it's bound to work.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Never the less the gold standard creates a more stable economic system because it is controlled by mother nature, and the amount of gold this planet provides. Opposed to the FIAT system which is controlled by both people, and governments (now a days just people though, the FED is privately owned and controls our money supply), which you probably well know is highly corruptible.

So the question is, do you want your money supply to be dictated by people, or dictated by a constant that mother nature dictates?

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

weird, to me alot of ron pauls ideas should make these OWS people pretty happy.... guess not

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

I agree, and I think a majority of OWS do agree with his plans, hence he's winning the GOP despite what the media says.

Really all I can assume is this forum attracted a majority of sit at home, live in the basement, far left idealistic individuals. Oddly enough I'm a registered Democrat and up until I learned more about Ron Paul, put some effort into his position, gave him the opportunity to explain his thoughts, and happened to agree with him. Really I'm a middle of the road kind of guy, but up until now I never thought I'd ever be willing to vote for a Conservative.

He really helped me to show the dangers in socialism, and as I read his books I have learned more from his wisdom than 500 Obamas/Bush's/Clinton's, etc...

It's unfortunate people are so quick to judge.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

do you see this rant guy commenting on this? hes absolutely ridiculous. haha

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Haha yeah, he's a turd, just ignore him.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

I cannot. I am too prideful. Besides, Im totally owning him. haha

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Haha I agree on the issues of when people have a valid argument, he's clearly just trying to censor you and not even giving you the opportunity to explain your position.

Aka he's a troll and by talking to him you just fill his ego with the attention he so desperately craves.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

Then i have helped someone today. if he needs attention, i can give him that

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

welcome to THE FORUM

maybe ye were booted because one wastes their breath in less permanent press

[-] 0 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Another question. When you were kicked out you said it kicked you out for trolling??? It didnt say that?? You are such a liar. Lol

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

i swear to GOD that it said i was booted for trolling. i found it rather humorous

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Were u actually trolling ??? I was on there once and the thing moves so fast you can't read it. So I thought it was a lost cause to try to get myself back on it.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

no are you paying attention? I clearly explained what happened. your too busy trying to bash me to notice...

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Yeah that chatroom sucks you aren't some victim because your opinions are different if that were true you would be booted now. Just get over it.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

YOU get over it. you are welcome to leave MY post yet you keep coming back to try and bash me. well guess what, nobody here has bought it! so please either be logical or leave

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

I am done bashing you

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

thank you!

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

these posts are confusing. they need to organize them better. with like borders and stuff at least....

[-] 0 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 2 years ago

This forum doesn't represent OWS. The chat room doesn't represent OWS. DUH? Go to Wall St. if you want to talk to people in the movement.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

lol oh ive heard plenty of them speak as well.... im not impressed in their knowledge of america, capitalism, the constitution, and what OWS really is. not impressed AT ALL

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 2 years ago

OWS is about direct democracy and consensus. If more conservatives showed up, you'd have more of a voice... but I guess you're happy with your corrupt government : /

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

lol. you do know that america is NOT a democracy right? that democracy is a horrible form of government that is run by the mob like... oh wait JUST like OWS! of course OWS wants total democracy cause they think they will have the power. lol. take your blinders off fool.

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 2 years ago

Eh? Direct democracy, not democracy. Democracy is horrible, but direct democracy represents everyone. I'm done talking to you, since you've resorted to ad-homonem attacks.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

hold on. please explain to me what your idea of "direct democracy" is exactly. you think that america should not be a republic? because we arent a democracy if thats what you thought

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 2 years ago

Okay, in my opinion, direct democracy is at the heart of the OWS movement. You won't find very much about it here on the forums, but these people don't really represent those on the ground in NYC. Direct democracy is where everyone has a voice, a direct influence on decision-making and proposals. We do have a republic, but it acts like a democracy in that the majority of the country is in opposition to the minority. Direct democracy gives everyone a voice and wants to INCLUDE minority voices. OWSNY operates by consensus, that means they try VERY hard to please everyone who shows up. I respect that and I want the marginalized people in my country to be heard and to take their power back from their corrupt government.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

lol we are a republic to protect the minority. in a democracy the minority can never win, and please dont say they can. the logical reasoning is that the majority wins every time with democracy. which they should in a republic too, but not at the expense of the minority. you think things would get better with a direct democracy? no my friend, they would get far worse... and oh boy talk about corruption!!

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 2 years ago

Direct democracy is actually heavily anti-corruption, because it is leaderless. It has never been enacted because people haven't thought it was possible, but with most people having internet nowadays, it might be.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

haha oh yeah? so you think 300 hundred years ago some of the smartest people in the world who just fought and beat the most powerful country in existence at the time, and you think they didn't choose direct democracy because they were scared and didn't think it was possible. and on TOP of that, you people think you know better than them?! be honest with me: how much study have you done in political science?

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 2 years ago

Dude, direct democracy is where people vote directly on proposals. It was literally not possible 300 years ago, when people relied on horses to get around.

[-] 0 points by SavetheWorld (14) from Jersey City, NJ 2 years ago

Well what you gonna do, the movement is starting to look like they're just stroking each other's ego like dicks. Of course someone will be pissed if you dont support the movement 100% even its faults.

[-] 0 points by Bored (8) 2 years ago

REALamerican: I went on that forum too. got to read people talking about how cocaine is made. you're not missing anything...

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

hahahaha. fascinating

[-] 0 points by tactracker (2) 2 years ago

Dear Realamerican, I to have been banned. But please open your mind a bit and then hope that the ones who are so afraid that control this movement at the moment will see the light. This movement has the ability to do what you know needs to be done. Everyone knows what wallst has done to use and the fact that it is going to just get worst for all of us. This movement needs you and your opinion. You maybe far right or just in the middle and are looking at the path owsnyc had fallen on to the recent pass and now see just a bunch of wako's. Please keep trying and soon you and they will see that this movement is ours and not the ones who are doing the controlling.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

so what do you think should happen? we take the money from the rich forcefully? Im just confused at why yall are angry at ALL the rich, when it is really just the "politically" rich that are too blame for our troubles. Most 'regular' rich people arent THAT bad and they hire alot of people. give alot of people jobs.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

the anger is at those who use the system to control and manipulate,. to keep themselves rich by keeping others from the collective wealth of this planet we all share,. no one has claim to more than any other,. There is room for infinite freedom on a world where the game is not rigged,. like ours. the entire banking system,. the way we create money, out of debt,. is a death trap of a system. (it will always filter money from the many to the few) we don't want to kill the rich and take their stuff,. just change the system that keeps some rich, at the great and painful expense of so many others. that is the revolution you'll find here,. .

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

wealth of this planet we all share? no. im sorry but wealth should be earned, not shared. not forcibly shared.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

oh so how does one get to own wealth here on our planet? how can one come to own land? from who is the title passed? how was it earned?

ownership is theft.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

and dont tell me some are less fortunate. while that may be true, with america it is possible for ANYONE to make a decent living.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

you WORK for it. that is capitalism. or are you against capitalism? because if you are i definitely have some things for you to read.

[-] 1 points by Snoob (62) 2 years ago

Haha, should post them anyway, people still believe we live in a capitalistic society....

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

haha. hardly...

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6587) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

It's not all the rich that are the problem. It's the super-rich, the plutocrats. Their utter contempt for the "lower classes" is appalling. Check out the page "OWS Now is the time do not falter" posted by JQcitizen and check on some of those links. Quite educational. And the goal isn't to forcefully take the money from the rich, it's to get the influence of big money out of politics and a more balanced distribution of the wealth and resources of this country, and by extension, the world. And maybe, as a bonus, enlighten people to the fact that greed, unchecked, is in fact not good. It's actually the opposite.

[-] -1 points by YuckFouHippies (189) 2 years ago

If your opinion differs from the over the top OWS views, you get censored. End of story, you "various radical" you!