Forum Post: Would a social - collective - economy have flourishing success
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 1, 2011, 4:38 p.m. EST by FriendlyObserverA
(610)
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Can we the people survive with out corporations / big business controlling everything. Can we selflead ?
You guys have a very tilted view of the world. The idea of a democratic economy is one of the dumbest things ever. You people's sense of entiltement is out of control.
Screw off troll.
Point taken. Oh wait, you didn't have a point, just an insult.
You didn't really have a point either. I wrote an entire paragraph and you came in and wrote some stupid comment as if you own the damn place. Fuck you.
And by the way, I'm pretty sure that almost no one here actually thinks that their ideas will become law and standard, but it is good to shoot out ideas and bulldoze the ignorance and shallow thinking of people like you so that we can move on to a better society. Oh, but you love suffering and societal problems that happen cause of economic dysfunction, right? Broken families, homelessness, drug use, etc? It's just a part of life and we all need to suck it up, huh? I don't want any entitlement. In fact, I love working hard and breaking a sweat, but it pisses me off to see such stupidity on such a massive scale in our country. Do you get it? That's why you need to shut up and start thinking about things to do, whatever that is.
Ok. You think that someone should buy property, build a house, and either give it to you or let you live there rent free? That's stupid. What do you think banks and coporations are comprised of? Evil robots? No, they consist of people like you and me who busted their ass to get where they are. Nobody is forcing people to go out an buy shit they can't afford. Grow up and take responsiblity for your own actions. Don't propose that we just vote not to pay our debts.
Ok, where I take issue with your post is that there are people that own way too much land. Take Bernie Madoff, for instance. When he knew his scam was going bust, the banks gave him a billion-dollar mortgage in Canada, from what I remember. Land is power, and when people own too much, there is nowhere for people to go who get unlucky, or God forbid, sick and can't pay for even a small amount of time and get the boot. It's a sick form of slavery. I'm not saying that we should just blow up the system, but it's really stupid, you have to admit. Oh, and when America goes bankrupt, or the bills come due, do you really think that Americans are going to sit around and make plans to pay for it? Absolutely not. You know why? Because the government is the entity that sold our future and the only debt I have is the ones that I reluctantly took, but that are well within my means to pay back. Not some bond I signed that's floating around in the ether of the rest of the world. Get it?
Bernie Madoff and the banks can basically do whatever they want. That's the thing with a free society. Just like you and I can blow the whistle on his ass and bust him. What you are saying is that you want to have control over what private citizens do. I believe whole heartedly in helping the less fortunate, I just don't think it should be a law or forced on people.
I agree, the government has totally screwed up our future. It can still be fixed though. Getting people to be less hands off with the political system is a good start.
I don't have the slighest idea what your financial situation is. Nor should I. It's your life and your choices to make. Get it?
Yes We Can!
Utilizing the principals of:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/approaching-a-metapolitical-discourse/
http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse
Looks complicated
Since when is participatory democracy simple?
What's the outcome ?
That will depend on the vote my friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_-ZN4RKQvg
We will inevitably as a society, assuming we do not destroy ourselves or allow ourselves to become extinct, come to a point where money or anything like it will not have any meaning.. Where knowledge and enrichment of ones life is the true wealth. I wonder if our present society, as a whole, is ready for this period of enlightenment or not. This is not about "entitlement", this is about society working as a whole to better the life of everyone. No piece of this earth or anything produced from it belongs to any one person above any other, after all everything we possess or knowledge we have is the product of all humanity, not any one person... Peace to you all...
It would be nice to see a world where everyone can reach their full potential. And be equally rewarded. To do away with actual money. We would have to work on a ration system. ???
Can we survive? Aren't there groups that have already been forced into it? And, finally, are you going to have any other choice but to?
You mean if we can survive without entities bent on destroying this country?
Yeah, I think so.
Btw you know which corporations I'm talking about.
We will not have a choice very soon. We absolutely must try to find an updated system for the modern age. Capitalism will fail if it can not grow endlessly and if you take a look around you can see we are reaching the boundaries of growth. Corporations are in many ways a good idea for distributing goods to people on a large scale. The problem is greed. If we could figure out how to have non-profit corporations or corporate modeled manufacturing and distribution systems it might work well.
If an auto maker was not focused on profits as the main function then they might not make products with built in obsolescence. Products might last longer reducing the need for more resources.
I don't know why communities don't seize the manufacturing plant of a corporation, closing down to move off shore somewhere, by using Eminent Domain. Find a way to use the skilled workers and the facility, keep it going producing something, and set it up as a non-profit as they sell it back to the employees or the community. If it were a non-profit and profits were made then those would go to ALL the employees and back to the community. Better option than just letting people and infrastructure sit idle.
I like your post. Very well thought out. One thing that causes me concern in regards to one thing you said is that even though we have superior products to other outdated ones, we still produce the older ones to make profit. Yes, that is a problem and one that is addressed by the Zeitgeist: Moving Forward video.
Interesting thought
The thing that absolutely must be emphasized is that it's not really about our own choices when you have the rent or mortgage to worry about. It's at that point that you don't have the proper head on your shoulders to conduct such a strategy as you suggest. It is my opinion that the coupling of corporations with the banks has created the monstrosity that we might call industrial slavery. That is the real issue here. We cannot function well as a society with that kind of sword hanging over our heads. I'm not saying it's the most moral thing in the world, but I would love to see a mortgage strike. Ethics aside, you have to realize the true source of oppression and misery and call it for what it is. Another thing that cripples our society and neighborhoods? Fences, DEFINITELY cars, and not very many good public spaces, such as you see in Europe. There are a variety of factors that play into our inability to function among ourselves in a functional way. The internet is leveling the field once again though and I'm truly happy about that. Soon, we'll be able to have a functioning democracy and, I hope, even democratically vote how our economy should run on a yearly basis or so. For instance, the very idea of funding and money is somewhat trivial these days if you think about it. With the ability for someone to instantly get rich through the use of technology, (provided everyone pays merely, say, a dollar), the economy becomes more about resources and the coordination of manpower to help projects get accomplished instead of physical money. For instance, I can be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and still pay money as if it were a positive amount in my bank account. So, the whole idea of money these days is not really even real. It's just digits on a screen. We need to catch up to this fact in our minds and adjust our society to the new century we live in. We should live in a digital economy to an extent if we can and change the rules. Stop sucking the corporate teat and let's get on to democratically organizing our economy.
Swedish model looks fine for me.
Occupy WallSt, tighten Antitrust rules,...
No !!!!
Why? It seems the factory will operate literally without the investor. Seems the employees are fully capable.
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