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Forum Post: Wisdom from Abraham Lincoln or William J. H. Boetcker, a Presbyterian minister

Posted 13 years ago on Dec. 1, 2011, 9:38 p.m. EST by kingscrossection (1203)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

These are words that were said by one man or the other. Both were incredibly intelligent and obviously Abraham Lincoln did incredible things.

Any Comments on these:

  1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

  2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong

  3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.

  4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

  5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.

  6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.

  7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

  8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.

  9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.

  10. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will
    not do for themselves.

87 Comments

87 Comments


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[-] 1 points by OWSisawaste (133) 13 years ago

these quotes are very true....amen to the person that posted them....

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Apparently Lincoln was an evil person. Any comment?

[-] 1 points by OWSisawaste (133) 13 years ago

Lincoln was a great man and rivaled Teddy Roosevelt as on of the best presidents we have ever had..

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

But apparently, "It's been done by all since the days of your hero, Lincoln. Do you know when the first bankruptcy took place? Do you know when the second one did and what amazingly evil concessions were made to the holders of that note? I didn't think so. The security or collateral on all the borrowed imaginary money only happens to be "we the people" AND all property in the country, real, intellectual and tangible."

[-] 1 points by OWSisawaste (133) 13 years ago

that makes no sense.....lincoln freed our nation....people are dumb

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Agreed. I don't feel like collateral do you?

[-] 1 points by OWSisawaste (133) 13 years ago

what do you mean?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 13 years ago

i believe this modal would eliminate the hostility our nation perceives.

http://www.citicommons.com/contributors/jesse-heffran/mybestideayet

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

What's it say my computer won't load the page.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

I read this somewhere else.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Could you please tell me in what way?

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

I don't know. It seems almost like you're reading too literally. I think it means economic security. If I remember my history correctly, during WW2 Britain borrowed money from us to buy supplies and weapons for physical security.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

You really don't know do you? It's been done by all since the days of your hero, Lincoln. Do you know when the first bankruptcy took place? Do you know when the second one did and what amazingly evil concessions were made to the holders of that note?

I didn't think so.

The security or collateral on all the borrowed imaginary money only happens to be "we the people" AND all property in the country, real, intellectual and tangible.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Where do you find that information?

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

On the internet and in my college history books from many many years ago. Back before the Federal government censored the truth while programming masses to be mindlessly submissive.

good luck

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

I think it means a stable economic environment (Command V): access to basic needs infrastructure pertaining to health, education, dwelling, information, and social protection, as well as work-related security

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Personally I don't think so. However, I do realize that college is expensive and sometimes there is just no other way to go to college.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Hard work yes. Time not quite. It not always better to plug a dam as to build a new one because the dam with holes will only create bigger holes as time wears on it. Create a new system with the old system's problems kept in mind.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

It sounded cliche when I wrote it.

[-] 1 points by technoviking (484) 13 years ago

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

The only way to bring about prosperity is to encourage risk taking - starting a business, finding new inventions, making scientific progress that will fail 90% of the time.

Encouraging thrift merely brings about thriftiness..

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Umm you are correct. That is what you said in a nutshell.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Actual quote from Lincoln, "With Malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds."

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

I'm sure Lincoln's quotes can be traced back to him?

So why are they intermingled?

Are you a repelican?

Are you nervous . . .

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 13 years ago

He throwing around a bunch of general slogans as if they may solve our particular problems. Any one of those statements when investigated in detail say essentially nothing. That's an inherent problem with generalizations, and a reason they are useless when it comes to the details.

And, on yeah, how about the one where Lincoln was for shipping all the slaves to Liberia before deciding later on emancipation during the Civil War. Doesn't fit into those nice little generalizations does it?

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

I had never heard of that.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 13 years ago

The one about the slaves and how Lincoln originally wanted to send them off to Liberia?

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

yeah - I've never heard that.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 13 years ago

Since the 1840s Lincoln had been an advocate of the American Colonization Society program of colonizing blacks in Liberia. In an October 16, 1854:a speech at Peoria, Illinois (transcribed after the fact by Lincoln himself):Lincoln points out the immense difficulties of such a task are an obstacle to finding an easy way to quickly end slavery.

*"My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia,—to their own native land. But a moment’s reflection would convince me that whatever of high hope (as I think there is) there may be in this, in the long run, its sudden execution is impossible."*January 1, 1863

It's actually still up to debate whether he really continued this belief of sending the slaves to liberia up until his untimely death. His justification usually was we could never mix the races, white people would never accept blacks as equal. Very Very interesting stuff. This slavery issue along with racism still are very much alive with us to this day.

Thanks for asking, your sharp!

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

There is no question he was constrained in his beliefs, his thinking, and his actions, by both culture and time in which he lived. Your quote simply hints at social problems that were envisioned as a result of emancipation.

Taken out of context of both culture and era is a mistake, I think, and leaves us prone to judgment based on realities that simply did not then exist.

The fact that he was willing to tackle the issue of emancipation despite these other issues, is I think, a measure of the man himself.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 13 years ago

It was a calculated risk. But also emancipation would strengthen the Union Forces since it gave blacks the reason to fight and the Union a higher reason for winning. It was Black Union Soldiers who first took Richmond towards the final days of the War. The Buffalo Soldiers fought very hard and ferious. The fact that they fought so hard for the Union is a big reason they weren't shipped off and essentially drew empathy from Americans.

It helps to know the real history of how it goes down.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

It helps to know the real history of how it goes down.

Absolutely.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 13 years ago

O would that I could but whisper about real history. Believe you me, the real history of the past eleven decades is far different from that which you will learn in a university or from the MSM.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

I'm sure it is.

We need facts. Documentation.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 13 years ago

People go to prison for that. People are savagely beaten for that. People have their careers and lives destroyed for that. Sad but demonstrably true.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

bahh -

funnel the facts to wiki-leaks.

he can take the heat.

[-] 0 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 13 years ago

Wikileaks is an intelligence operation for the git-go.

https://www.google.com/search?q=german+thought+criminals

I suspect my time here is short.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by TIOUAISE (2526) 13 years ago

You made a post with a jumble of brief quotations WITHOUT CONTEXT OR SOURCE, some purporting to be from Lincoln, others from some obscure Presbyterian minister???

"LIncoln said several things similar to this but a book was published in 1942 I believe that was titled Lincoln on Limitations. Which had Lincoln quotes but also quotes from the 10 cannots published by William J. H. Boetcker in 1916."

In other words, a CONFUSED MISH-MASH of unverified quotes..... SURELY YOU JEST in speaking of "wisdom", kingscrossection!!!

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Speaking directly to me wouldn't hurt either.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Please its been verified. I could change it for you if you wanted, However, I don't normally give into whiny people. At the very least, you could at least read them and evaluate them yourself.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

I swear - the scumbag repelicans are getting a bit more subtle . . .

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Like I said. I'm undeclared. And the hippies just keep smelling worse to me.

[-] 0 points by TIOUAISE (2526) 13 years ago

... but no less obscure in their feeble attempts at "wisdom"!

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Ah look at you guys ganging up. Its so cute I might cry. However, I would appreciate it if you could speak privately instead of on my post wasting my space.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

Ah well.

Sorry about that. Honestly I don't think it's my fault - I mean, you know . . .

it's just that I've heard all those repelican behavioral curbing linguistic devices so many times already I could just puke -- ya know?

I mean, take number ten - could it not be restated to say:

hoist yourself up by your own boot straps -

or eat them

And basically isn't that the essence and the spirit that is intended? It's such a pointless point of talking too, with so many out of work - thank you repelicans

Not that I mean that you are repelican of course, I mean, perhaps you are not - I don't know.

And isn't it a bit unrealistic to suggest someone 65 is going to hoist themselves anywhere? I mean, not that it is totally out of the question, but you do see what I mean.

The whole thing is ridiculous.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

No I agree with you on the last part. I believe the idea is that people work and then they hit an age where they cannot work or the work becomes unpleasant and then they can retire.

[-] 2 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

That is my point. Just because our longevity is increasing is no excuse to automatically raise the retirement age and instill punishments to ensure people keep working.

I think at that age, continuing to work may provide health benefits - but it's just wrong to penalize someone when that option isn't viable.

They just don't want the program to remain viable, or take the time to make it viable. the Bastards.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

I was personally never suggesting that. Where did you read that? I do believe number 10 is referring to things like welfare where people get on them and stays on them

[-] 2 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

I realize that - and it's a talking point of the repelican party - one that pits American against American on the basis of stereotype, where views of race and class both play a role in supporting a dead end of distrust and division.

The solution to things like welfare are socio-economic restructuring - which the banking system doesn't like.

People need jobs and decent neighborhoods to live in - not crime infested concrete jungles.

Banks don't like investing in underserved communities . . . .

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

I would like to repeat for the third time that I am UNDECLARED.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

That's alright. I don't mind. I'm independent myself, one who is so convinced that there is not, and has not been, any excuse to vote for anyone from the repelican party for over 15 years now

that the whole thing is not so much a conviction anymore as it is a commitment.

I put this up on my blog back around the time of the budget debate. There is a bit of humor to it.

here

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

What exactly does the independent party believe?

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

I don't believe that it has a stated agenda.

Look at Sens. Sanders and whasis name from Connecticut. Lieberman, that's it.

Two totally different characters.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

eyah- somethin

[-] 0 points by blazefire (947) 13 years ago

You reply with a post, with a jumble of random sentences, FULL OF VENOM, some purporting to be from a person or some other obscure sock puppet???

You said several things that have been said by other several things heard in these forums, every stinkin day, that really don't help much at all.

In other words, a CONFUSED MISH-MASH of un-required rubbish..... SURELY YOU JEST in speaking, tiouaise!!!!

.....either you like the words, and believe them to be relevant... or, you don't. Pulling them down, or pulling someone down for inputing, is simply ignorant. If ONE other person likes these words it gives them instant relevance, and I do, so it does, so give him a break!

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

There could have been a purpose to it you know. Maybe you should do some research on it instead of just assuming. People are morons and I didn't really think to lump you in with them but my opinion's changed.

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 13 years ago

I doubt it... it was pure insult...personal....with no substance. Yes there may have been a purpose, but if there was, that is what they should be writing about, not venom fill rhetoric. They're point is that ur dumb. And that these words don't exist. And they claim some sort of intellect, in their condescending tone. Don't know why I responded to this one... I guess it just struck a nerve...and... I was sticking up for you man! (Not saying you needed it, but when I looked there were a few people having a go...)

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Oh see I thought you were talking to me.

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

No LIncoln said several things similar to this but a book was published in 1942 I believe that was titled Lincoln on Limitations. Which had Lincoln quotes but also quotes from the 10 cannots published by William J. H. Boetcker in 1916.

In other news I'm actually undeclared. Both sides have sound ideas and Its hard to choose one over the other.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 13 years ago

I don't like 6 and 7. When coal miners unionized, they did so because they had to, management would not listen to their needs and they were dying under ground.

It became a violent, bloody struggle. I do not advocate violence. But I will not close my eyes. There will be those who refuse to accept what is true, and right before their eyes.

If they remain in the way, they will be trampled.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

6 repeats several of the other ones and there are always extenuating circumstances to situations.

[-] 0 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fregObNcHC8&ob=av2e

Who do you think this David Bowie song, by Nirvana, is about?

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

You could maybe talk to me instead of just giving me a video

[-] 0 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

Lincoln was one of the most evil men to ever walk the face of this planet.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Really? DId your demy mommy teach you that? Or your KKK friends?

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

Who taught you that a man, who insisted on a war this nation has never, to date, been able to pay for, and of which resulted in more lives lost than all wars since combined, was not evil? Your outcome based and no child left behind nimbot programmed education?

The cost of the civil war debt, to all surviving Americans, was 330 million each in actual real 1850 money.

I bet you did not know the US has never been out of debt since and has filed TWO bankruptcies as a result of never having recovered.

His actions set the stage, very well, for exactly where we are today.

Only a dolt would play the race card and ignore what are factual and obvious truths.

GTH

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Maybe but this is one of the few instances I can actually do that and not sound like and idiot. Are you suggesting that we still own slaves today? I mean I don't know about you but I would love someone to do my laundry. Oh, Oh I've got it. We could have just killed them all and saved ourselves the trouble

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

If you only knew the actual magnitude of which you, your ancestors and descendants have been, and actually are enslaved, you'd feel foolish.

You Sir, are collateral on the foreclosure as well as all the imaginary money borrowed from the corrupt Federal Reserve and Communist Chinese Government.

Don't think so, check the value at which your Birth Certificate Trades on the NYSE.

You Sir, are owned property via implied consent given in various contracts with the State and not knowing the codes of this land, as well as never objecting to such consent.

Mine? 688 Billion dollars.

http://www.libertyforlife.com/eye-openers/lincoln-enslaved-world.html

Racist you think?

FWIW... the KKK originally started out as a moral group which actually policed their own who did not take care of and provide for theirs. How it turned racist and against blacks was both political and seemingly, back then, a natural progression fueled by despicable hatred.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

And why haven't you mentioned this before?

I don't think it matters how the KKK started but how the ended up. If they were really focused on policing themselves then they would have done so and not descended into what you read about.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

Mentioned what?

That YOU are a slave?

I couldn't give two shits about the KKK, you, in your simplistic, highly preditable and unthinking knee-jerk attempted that paint job.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/interesting-read-about-the-constitution-and-corpor/#comment-404410

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Well thank you for that very emotional and pointless post. If frogs had wing they wouldn't bump their ass but you seem to do it repeatedly

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

Choke on your own vomit and suffocate, child mind.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

I'd rather burn in the hell I don't believe in than live in your America mindless follower

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

I love me too, gimme a kiss, sweetie.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Honey I'm home.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

Gosh, we're fantastic together! I'm sorry I talked ugly to you, snookums.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Aww get me a beer and get over here.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

I'm doing Jager Bombs today, Johnny Walker Blue tomorrow. Bottoms up!

[-] 1 points by BraddDavis (10) 13 years ago

And a very merry Christmas to you.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

Indeed and thank you, Sir! I hope yours goes well.

[-] 0 points by BraddDavis (10) 13 years ago

Wonderful. Somewhere this simple wisdom has been lost on the 99%

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Thank you. That is why I'm posting it on this forum hoping more people will see it.

[-] -1 points by 99thpercentile (94) 13 years ago

Sorry. If it's longer than three words it's probably not going to get through to the majority of Americans.

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Should I space the numbers out?

[-] 1 points by 99thpercentile (94) 13 years ago

I'm just kidding. I like those quotes. I wish Lincoln had actually lived by a lot of the things that he said. Reagan too.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 13 years ago

No doubt, the evil bastard was quite the hypocrite and truly sold the world, to evil nearly as great as his own, as a result of insisting on having his bloody, and damned expensive, war.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 13 years ago

Agreed. Either way one of the men said it and they have a ring of truth. Well at least to my untrained ears. Is that better? A little easier to read.