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Forum Post: Wisconsin? What are you waiting for?

Posted 2 years ago on March 3, 2012, 6:22 a.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Why have you not selected a RUNNER to beat walker? Seriously - why? This stall can't be a good move!

38 Comments

38 Comments


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[-] 1 points by incomeforall (64) 2 years ago

It isn't polling well for the unions, a loss is probable if they don't get it together. It's taken way too long, Walker has the bully pulpit and his programs are showing success and the voters have had a chance to really look at what the unions actually are asking for and it ain't pretty.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Kathleen Falk is running.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

This one looks good, know anybody up there?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73114.html

[-] -2 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

Don't worry, the unions will have a hand-picked stooge soon enough.

Government should benefit its people, not just its employees: A simple principle, but something lost on the unions.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Is that why the unions were willing to give up so much while koch stoo ge walker gave tax breaks to his rich buddies?


Don’t forget to collect your paycheck from your masters


http://occupywallst.org/forum/to-all-you-obama-slimers-/


[-] -2 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

Even FDR knew better than to unleash public sector unions. The irony is how liberal dumb-fucks like you support siphoning more and more tax money into retirement packages for government workers, even as it crowds out the programs you claim to love and even though those packages are wildly above what non-government workers enjoy. Smarten up.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

And whose falut is it that non-government workers are not paid better?

You guys want to kill all unions don't hide behide that "tax payer" crap, what you really hate is the non union workers seeing union workers having a middle class life.

[-] -1 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

It's no one's fault, but shoveling money at government employees makes it worse, not better. Here's a shocker: Government workers are PAID by non-government workers.

An example: The downturn and lack of investment returns have seriously eroded retirement security for non-government workers. But government workers insist on tax increases to keep their retirements utterly untouched (packages that already well exceeded the private sector). So, make non-government workers even worse off to keep them from having any impact. The unions are tone-deaf to the experience of the working families paying for it. And liberals support it 100%.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Like I said you fear people seeing that is possible to have a middle class life, by working a job, that's what you really fear, why are you not posting support for unions in the private sector, or for raising the minimum wage?

[-] -1 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

So, support government employees living better than non-government employees that pay for it, why again?

Unions require special circumstances to succeed. You need restraint in customer choice. Unions don't add value, they add cost. Customers won't pay for cost without added value. So, union products can't sell for anymore than non-union products. That means the company earns less and provides lower returns on capital. So, unions cause companies to have either a problem selling their products or a problem attracting capital. The only solution is to take away the customer's freedom and unions advocate that all the time.

That's what happens in government. Much of government is a monopoly. They have little problem passing on higher costs to "customers" via higher taxation and shittier and shittier service. The DMV can tell you to go fuck yourself and you take it because there's only one place to get a drivers license. Their power is backed up by owning both sides of the negotiating table and electioneering, witness Wisconsin.

Minimum wage laws are just a form of price fixing. Dopey liberals want an open border, but then cry about low wages for no-skill people. Supply and demand can't be repealed by pricing fixing minimum wage laws. Take an economics class and learn why. Want higher wages for no-skill people, have the brains to dry up the supply and Occupy the border.

Yeah, three cheers for government unions.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I didn't say that, you just hate unions. you hate anything that cost the king money, you think people should work for food...

[-] -1 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

Yes, just another "hater" that thinks government should operate for the benefit of its citizens, not just its employees. LOL.

At least try to use reason. Sure, I know you probably can't get there, but it's a good exercise nonetheless.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Why do you always try tearing down others instaed of buliding p;eople up?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/do-republicans-serve-a-purpose-in-american-politic/#comment-640773

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

So you support government working to help it's citizens form unions! Good for you now how can we do that? Card sign laws, have you supported that?

[-] -1 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

LOL. Not supporting government unions means I have to support private sector unions, especially by rigging the rules? I don't see it.

Freedom is good. Let people form unions, but then people not join or pay dues and let companies move if they see fit. Also, let the union collect its own dues. At least the market place imposes some discipline. If the unions get something screwy, the company breaks, prices rise, or a competitor emerges. We also can't have the union rigging the system to prohibit customer choice.

But in government it's broken. No union should control both sides of the table. That's what the Wisconsin recall is about. It's union outrage at a non-compliance boss. They want a new and to get things back to "normal".

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

thought you wanted to help people guess you don't

[-] -2 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

Yeah, you support government unions because you care. LOL. Wait, I got it: "It's for the children". LOL.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

why do you keep putting the word government in there in truth you hate all unions, just say so, be pround of who you are, you think there is no such thing as tax rates that are too low or labor costs that are too low

[-] -1 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

No, I don't hate all unions. They've crippled and corrupted our government as they hand pick the other side of the negotiating table and that's a real problem. But if a union gets into a private company and they can make it work, they don't impinge upon the freedom of other employees, the company, or customers, then it's fine. If they go too far, the market has a discipline for that.

Government services are being crowded out to pay excessive retirement packages of the employees. One day, this will start to sink into liberal skulls. Working government employees provide services, retired ones don't. The unions are relentless advocates for higher taxes and bigger government. Not for any use as citizens, but merely because they work there. It's broken.

[-] -3 points by nytefury (-57) 2 years ago

If there was a winner and a loser for debate's on this forum.....You got you're ass handed to ya.

Facts aren't so fun,now? Are they?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

there is a score it's right after your name -45,

you know how to tell when you've won......

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[-] -2 points by nytefury (-57) 2 years ago

Excellent post,you explained this very well and factsrfun can't debate it. How could he?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

He did explain very well that he hates anyone to be in a union or to paid a decent wage, that's all I ever wanted , he honestly supports the 1% I don't.

[-] -1 points by nytefury (-57) 2 years ago

You just can't admit when you are wrong. You're talking shit now instead of countering with any facts. Get over it,let it go,Libs don't know how to turn the lights out when their party is over.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6867) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

That would be lying and it's your job to tell the lies, I don't want to put you out of work the way Rush did those auto workers, dud.

[-] -2 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

They can't, that's why they resort to emotion and frustration.

Liberals have yet to smarten up, but it's coming. They have this misplaced union reflex that's causing problems. They line up behind this minority that happens to work for government, not thinking through how they've sunk their tap line so deep now into government money that they're crowding out the other things government does. The programs liberals claim to love are being sucked dry by the retirement packages of the unions they unquestioningly support. I like teachers, they like retired teachers. See which one is better for kids.

[-] -2 points by nytefury (-57) 2 years ago

It's so great to read post's by someone who knows there shit and can explain it so understandably.

factsrfun resorted to emotion and would eventually start name calling had he not stopped.

Thanks for some great posts.

[-] -2 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

I try. Liberals just don't use that side of their brains. I've been reading some pieces from "progressives" that are starting to see the danger of the crowding out that's happening and why. But they remain rare and, as usual, they'll kinda get, but only after it gets a lot worse.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Don’t forget to collect your paycheck from your masters

http://occupywallst.org/forum/to-all-you-obama-slimers-/

you are an Rs

[-] -1 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

Unions have corrupted our system. Wisconsin is just the latest and most brazen example of them hand picking their own boss. Negotiations are funner when you own both sides of the table. Sure, ordinary people lose, but ordinary liberals favor government workers over the non-government workers that pay for it and favor retirement packages for government workers over government programs. Smarten up.

Government should benefit its people, not just its employees.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

That is a good argument and is a demon i wrestle with. The way i see it: once the gov't unions are gone, you can kiss the private ones good bye, too.

[-] 0 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

No, once the government unions are gone, we've removed a smothering special interest group and then government can respond to its people, not just its employees. We can also stop the siphoning off of program money into excessive retirement payments for people that no-longer even work there.

[-] 1 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 2 years ago

For the life of me, how did public employee unions become such a liberal sacred cow? Its one group of workers entirely aligned against the tax payer.

[-] 0 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

It's bizarre. It's just an old reflex; another thing liberals do on pure emotion without critical thought. Government employee retirement packages are probably the biggest financial scandal in the nation's history. It's bigger than Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and FHA. The lies imbedded in pension assumptions are the biggest misrepresentation in our history. It's all been done with the encouragement of the unions that don't want the taxpayer to see how much has been given away.

It's broken and ultimately crowds out the genuine services we all pay taxes to have provided. Liberals can't yet get this last point. But they will, but like everything else, they're slow learners. They need to have a few 10s of thousand more teachers fired because the money went into pensions before they'll begin to get it.

[-] 1 points by aflockofdoofi (-18) 2 years ago

California has an unfunded pension liability of $500 billion AND the highest state income tax in the US. California IS " soaking the rich" but to fund the growing labilty, every single private worker will have to give $2000 every year to the statevworker fund.

California Lifeguards retire at 50 and average $108000 in pension income.

[-] 0 points by Unwashed (-141) 2 years ago

The truly scary part is that they're lying about the assumptions too. They use discount rates to arrive at a present value of what they owe. But 2/3rd of the public plans in the U.S. use at least an 8% rate. That's wildly highly and dramatically low-balls what they claim we own. It's a massive scandal of the size only government could give us.

Making it worse is union control of government. Our officials are supposed to negotiate with labor, and all vendors, for the best deal for taxpayers. But it's all been subverted as the unions sought to control both sides of the table for their own interests.

That's exactly what's happening in Wisconsin. The unions are outraged by their new uppity boss, Scott Walker. So, they'll simply replace him with one of their own and business will get back to usual, with the ordinary people again losing out.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

ya, most of the people are either unemployed or employees...

On of the main problems with the eroding middle class is the slow erosion of unions over the last 40 years or so. It was thanks to the efforts of the labor movement at the turn of the last century, we've been enjoying quite a nice lifestyle. They fought hard for the right to have days off on the weekend not to mention decent wages (which are critical to consumer spending and GDP growth regardless of what any idiot economist says).