Forum Post: Why trolls win.
Posted 12 years ago on April 15, 2012, 4 p.m. EST by gnomunny
(6819)
from St Louis, MO
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
It's human nature to defend oneself against a perceived attack, verbal or otherwise, nigh on impossible sometimes to pull a Gandhi moment and just turn the other cheek.
I was thinking about this last night as I watched our latest furry little friend (needs a) Delousing's post about executive compensation get continually bumped to the top of the heap. Actually, I was almost the first to bite, having typed a brief "no shit Sherlock" response within minutes of him posting. I caught myself just short of hitting REPLY, deleted, and moved on to the next post. Others, I knew, could and would do it better. Although half of me hoped he'd be ignored, admittedly, the other half was curious to see how others would respond.
And we did. 70 at last count. I'm not entirely innocent, though; I bumped it a couple times responding to some of our regulars. Yeah, . . . I did.
Of course, it does no good. These people aren't here to learn anything, or to be "converted." In no way will they allow logic, reason, facts to sway them from their preset agenda. We know this. But take the bait anyway.
So, next time you respond to an obvious troll only to realize, after the fact, the folly of your ways, take heart.
We're only human.
What these guys?
1sealyon
aburrunderyourblanket
aflockofdoofi2
BLOWCHUNKS
Boric
DanielBarton
Dell
engineer4
EricBlair
F350
Farmerbrown
HapteMikael
hchc
Ironboltbruce
JanitorInaDrum
jimmycrackerson
JuanFenito
MsStacy
po6059
Rebdem
slammersworldwillnotbecensored
slizzo
EricBlair
Wellhungjury
They’re punks, but what you say is true, I do see it all the time.
This is what I think abut this, all networks are living things, the power of the networks being created today can only be imagined in the minds of our very brightest. As people connect like neurons in the brain a new living creature of sorts emerges. Just as our weak and fragile individual human bodies need mechanisms that keep them safe from dissolving into ever “lower” forms of life, so it is with our networks. As we defend its principles (even as we discover what those are), we become a new living creature.
Will it be of the “higher” or “lower” form will depend on us and our willingness to care.
But this network will grow and like all living things it will find a way to protect itself, whether this site and its sister sites become a large or small voice will depend on the actions of each of us.
Very thoughtful, thanks.
there is serious work on this that is sixty years old, but hard as hell to read, Phenomenon of Man
Interesting view on the network as a living thing. I take it you've heard of mesh networking and the development of ways to go net-independent in the event of a total internet shutdown. It's a little off-topic but something I think we all should keep in the back of our minds, though obviously not something for intense discussion here.
All good things come from Star Trek, The Search for Spock, teaches us, "life will find a way."
I’m not computer techie, but have heard of mesh, (TEDtalks) I’ll have to look into it.
OWS has stirred up a huge pile of garbage aka wall street, and the trolls and rats are not happy about it. Can you hear the " squealing !
I dont think its been stirred up enough, to be honest with you. And more than a few think Im a troll, too :)
You say that, as though you're not.........:)
you guys are relentless haha
The history of your threads pretty well bears it out.
You hate liberals, much more than you hate (R)epelican'ts.
You have a huge soft spot for libe(R)tarians.
You don't like old people. either.
You love saying there's no difference between the parties, yet when I point out HUGE differences going on in the States, you brush them off as though they were nothing.
You have one of the most corrupt governors in the Union, and you pay scant lip service to his malfeasance.
That's troll crap.
Well, thats a mouthful.
Im as socially liberal as one can be. Let people be people.
I have a soft spot for the libertarian party- not sure where that came from. Im not voting for Gary Johnson, if thats what you are guessing.
I dont like old people....thats pretty rough.
I dont brush them off as nothing. Politicians are who they are, we only elect idiots.
Im not sure what the gov in Florida has to do with Occupy, but Ive already stated what I dont like about him.
Can you please tell me why you dont like him? Because I honestly dont think you can name more legislation than I did, because he is pretty new and honestly hasnt done a lot one way or another.
You've even started a thread sticking up for the 1%.
You've called for cuts to public benefits.
You can't fool me. In fact you're lucky they only go back 3 mos.
You're a (R)epelican't with strong libe(R)tarian leanings.
If that weren't true, you would know all about gov. Scott. You'd be telling me stuff .
You just don't like liberals.
You are a freakin idiot shooz. Please give me some links, because I have a feeling if stated, you are taking them out of context.
Im a registered D that has helped with a few D campaigns.
Im no longer D. And certainly not R. If you dont think that SOME of the libertarians views (like every fuckin party) are good, then you are simply fuckin stupid. And simply want to hate.
You still havent given me the legislation that Scott passed that you dont like. I gave you two.
Youre a fuckin fraud warmoonger boosting shill, and would be laughed off this forum is this was October.
You're a freakin' fraud hchc.
All you have to do is look. I did. There's 3 mos. of it still here.
Now your going to start with the name calling?
If you like Scott? You're freakijn' teabagge(R)/lib(R)tarian!
Look into the corporation he was CEO of before he stuck the teagbag on his head.
Now I'm a warmoonger????? You are indeed a fraud.
Youre a fuckin idiot Shooz. Where the fuck is this Scott shit coming from. Fuck scott, what the fuck does he have to do with corrupt banking?
And he did benefit from the money in politics, like the fuckin rest of em. Fire them all.
Hacks like you are what fuck up everythign that people try to do for real change. All you lock and step D and R morons, just falling in line, election after election.
Go fuck yourself and your corrupted warmongering party, both of em.
The truths were in your own threads.
You can name call me all you want. I went back and checked them out.
You may have changed up your tactics, but you are what you posted.
You're really full of shit today ain't ya.............:)
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It's important to set the record straight. Then, they lose.
Yes, they do.
What do they win?
They win at distracting us. They get us to engage in their useless threads. It could be viewed as a win to them, but as you know, they aren't really winning anything except maybe some self-satisfaction. I doubt any of them have actually convinced any of us to give up on OWS.
I wouldn't even give them that much.
I view them like a bully that gets a perverse thrill out of inflicting pain on others. They're probably mentally ill. But then, so am I, but at least I don't enjoy hurting people. ;-)
A good portion of them seem to be juice heads. They cannot keep their arguments together for very long or ....at all. Some of them are white collar criminals or thieves in the making that may have a limited time in the future to steal from the public. I do think a few maybe mentally ill as well.
Then again GF, some of them are not juice heads, but rather sophisticated intelligent people who I term '2nd generation trolls.' Unlike the 1st generation who for example tried amongst other things to convince us that the 2008 melt-down was part of a normal up and down business cycle...the new trolls concede certain issues that resemble Common Cause's platform to gain credibility, then they keep trying to steer this revolution to a more placid, controllable form of dissent, and they also adamantly oppose other viewpoints and fancy themselves as the voice of reason. All this is the perfect prescription for creating division, and rendering this movement impotent. The problem is it is difficult to discern them from people who legitimately hold somewhat different beliefs than the overwhelming majority of people here in OWS.
Are you so sure that they are second generation? What if they merely reinvented themselves because their behavior became socially unacceptable? Doesn't matter much as long as they aren't jerks.
The first generation trolls (they may well have reinvented themselves too) were easy to pick out. They tried to convince us the 2008 melt-down was just part of an up and down business cycle, and most big bankers are regular folks....and perhaps we were personally lacking in some way. Now trolls are a little more insidious I think...will concede certain points because they can see the writing on the wall and know the lobbyist will be able to bring things back to (ab)normal in time, They try to dampen the fires of this movement in its wanting a real sea change to the way our political and financial systems operate. Maybe I am just paranoid GF, eh?
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get you.
Either way, it would be ok if we just gave 'em a verbal beat down.
You are a much better Troll Slayer than me. So glad I am not a troll. I always get a kick out of your rising anger in your back and forths with them as I know what's coming...something like "hey buddy why don't you go buy a blow-up doll for yourself?" lol
Nope not paranoid - the most successful trolls out there right now are the ones who try to hide in plain sight as a supporter and from that position spew subtle poisons in their posts and comments.
yep...you put that very succinctly DK.
Thanks these plain sight false flag assholes are the absolute worst.
JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR - Trial Before Pilate / Superstar
Good link, Matt. Excuse me a minute while I watch.
Sometimes our arguments are sharpened by their troll threads into more coherent & concise ideas.
Indeed. In fact, I've learned a number of things from the comments from some of our smarter participants.
I do my best to avoid the threads that are put up by trolls, but I do feel the necessity to answer their comments using facts and reason. I also, throughout a good part of my life have answered some very vitriolic letters in the letters to the editor section of several newspapers.
Me too. At the most, I may respond once, but that's it. My biggest problem is responding to some of our regulars, bumping the thread. I actually did that once yesterday after posting this thread. Didn't realize it until after the fact. When I got a response (not from the troll), I PM'ed him instead of answering on the thread.
I'll bet you've got some thick skin after that newspaper gig. I've heard it can get pretty ugly, death threats, etc. How's your blood pressure? ;-)
Still not too sure of all the blogging terminology as this OWS site is the first and only one I have ever been on. Bumping means liking? PMed..what the hell does that mean? I have vitual world figured out pretty well, but not the cyber world so much. ;-)
As far as the newspapers, you get to know what is acceptable. Some are very strict, others not so much. Word count maximums are usually 250, but some are almost unlimited which came in handy once when some ass said that Joe McCarthy was his hero. Anyway I needed a lot of words to give him a welll researched history lesson on what an evil demagogue he was. I never get down in the gutter with these guys though as I feel my message will resonate better if I don't. Instead I use facts, reason, and some sarcasm if the guy I am replying to is a total ass. For instance, I suggested that this guy find a new hero. I was very disappointed when the newspaper edited out my suggestions of Mickey Mantle or Jerry Garcia! Luckily I was able to get a few digs in earler in my letter though. lol Heat...my shoulders are bigger than my belly. :-)
When you respond to a thread or comment, that thread gets "bumped" to the top of the list. That's why it's generally good to respond to important threads and ignore the worthless ones. Threads fall down the list pretty rapidly, especially during busy times and good ones can get lost pretty quick. If you've ever seen a comment that says merely 'bump' it's because the responder didn't have anything to add, but felt the post needed to stay near the top longer. PM is short for 'private message.' If you want to talk to someone directly (or personally) but don't want to bump the thread, or perhaps talk about something off-topic, just click on their username and it takes you to that person's profile page (the page where you log in) and you can talk to them there. Only you and they can read it, not the whole forum.
I knew none of this when I joined last October. This is the first forum I've ever commented on also.
We're learning together and from each other. I knew the concepts of both of those things you explained, and have sent and recived PMs. It's just the lingo. Botting up is liking, and botting down is disliking, right?
Not sure about the botting up and down. Hmmm, let me know if someone clarifies that. Haven't heard that yet.
I like it that the arguments are right there in black and white for more reasonable people to read. A troll's job is to state lies loud enough and long that people believe them. That's it. Facts are irrelevant. They may wish to run off people whose ideas they find scary. Particularly people who can deliver a reply with a little style or worse a helpful link to actual information.
How true. That particular thread is a good case-in-point. I know practically nothing about economics (but learning), and even I could see the logic pointed out that exec. compensation packages affects the final cost of a particular product or service, at least in most businesses (maybe not finance). It does no good to argue with them, but it sure does feel good sometimes. ;-)
Just gotta be smooth with the come backs (life is a schoolyard sometimes) :)
But don't, under any circumstances, use logic or reason to sway them from their appointed agenda.
It's like foreplay, you have to smooth them into logic, by warming them up with a few well placed derision's.
Foreplay with trolls? Ah well, I've had worse. ;-)
I think.
They are merely noise with human traits.
You do not walk down a gravel path and stop for every crunching footstep that abrades your senses as you travel to another point.
Why stop for them?
well said
Great analogy.
with your post, you let them win
That makes no sense. Reminding everyone not to respond to trolls, that's a troll win?
They have it all.They didn't really earn it all,nor do they deserve all their wealth.Therefore they are SCARED SHITLESS and completely prevented from doing anything to delay the inevitable.In other countries,these rich leeches can rely on governments to brutally repress dissent by unleashing death squads when they run out of dodges.This is their last ditch technique but they may think they can't use it in the US-and maybe they can't-DTFD-trash
DHS buys three-quarters of a billion hollow points. Could those death squads be far behind?
Keep in mind that discussion with those that dont agree SHOULD be a way of expanding thoughts.
But it usually turns into a name calling contest. We are all guilty from time to time.
Google Bughouse Square in Chicago. That place must have been magical.
It should be, and usually is. You can usually tell early on, though, by their close-mindedness that it isn't going to go very far.
"Bughouse Square" around the turn of the last century would've been an amazing place indeed (I just Googled it).
It looks like it would be incredible. I think every city needs their own Bughouse Square!
True. Zuccotti, but without the riot gear.
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Come on. If the message lacks merit it will be ignored.
I still don't understand. Is a "troll" a person who doesn't agree with you? Do you only enjoy discussing issues with people who share your beliefs? That's just plain boring, and you don't learn anything.
I'm not one of those, Mike. I don't comment all that much, and, so far, haven't engaged in any long-running wars of differences of opinion. I welcome others' opinions. I'm non-confrontational and open-minded. But trolls, and threads that are nothing but distractions, do exist here.
One man's distraction is another man's pot of gold.
I know you aren't one of those. You ask questions and admit to not being an economics expert. Everyone else has a PhD in economics. My background is in finance, so I take particular umbrage to the crazy Marxist schemes. My wife was born in Russia, and I've spent quite a bit of time in Russia, so I have a pretty good understanding of central planning. It simply doesn't work, so why bother arguing about it.
I've never seen a single "troll" post., but I can assure you that I have been called a troll well over 100 times.
It is a word bandied about all too often. I titled this thread the way I did because it's concise, and I knew it would probably get some responses. It was more a reminder to stay on topic and try to avoid the threads that are obviously meant to distract.
ForumSpeak: The True Meanings of "Spam", "Troll" and "Karma":
spam : Any forum posting that (a) conflicts with either the forum moderators' agenda or groupthink consensus; or (b) any other forum member disagrees with, doesn't like, fears or otherwise does not wish to see posted.
troll : Any forum member who posts "spam" as defined above.
karma : A numerical measure of forum groupthink contribution, conformity and compliance that says nothing about the virtues of the poster or the veracity of their postings.
I'm a troll! Please teach me, oh wise one.
Okay, I'll bite, but only because I've read all the threads and am getting bored. I've seen your comments on other threads. No one can teach you shit, Mike, you already know everything.
But feel free to act superior. And call me a hypocrite since I responded to a troll on an anti-troll thread of my own making.
See ya on the forum, Mikey.