Forum Post: Why troll?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 10, 2011, 12:48 p.m. EST by buphiloman
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There are apparently more trolls on this forum than OWS friends and supporters. My question: Why are you all trolling? You are not going to change the minds of those who support the movement. And we are not going to change your minds. Why not set up an anti-OWS forum? Just curious.
Because they're paid to do it. Anyone who thinks that Multi-Billion dollar Corporations are going to stand by and silently allow people to regain their rights at the expense of their Psychopathic need to destroy us all are just fooling themselves.
Nobody comes to a forum that supports something only to slam that thing over and over again. Maybe a one off, maybe a cute link here and there, but the regularity they do it with, and the zealous effort they put into nit-picking and insulting tells me that this is their job.
Jono, I share your suspicion.
I have had some great posts and not received any payment. Paying for trolls does not exist, kind of like OWS transparency.
Hey, Koch bros, where's my check? LOL
They are trying to poison the well posting all those unfavorable stories. It is something like Google-bombing.
There isn't more trolls than supporters. There is just 50 trolls who constantly post on EVERYTHING because they feel they need to tell everyone to "go get a job." Which in all honesty, I have to say that they have too much free time and maybe the trolls should go get jobs. At least these people, 90% of which in my city have jobs, are trying to change America for the better by getting corruption out of our government and changing our bullshit debt based monetary system through nationalization of the federal reserve like the Constitution of the United States intended. All the trolls do is spread hate speech like a bunch of Nazis.
I think that many people that are grouped into the trolling category actually are not trolls. Just because someone disagrees with you on an issue does not make them a troll. I think that we need to welcome conversation and discourse including with those that do not agree with everything about the OWS. The organization is supposed to represent 99% of the population, and I think it is important to listen to that 99% as the OWS moves forward.
We need discourse not a pep rally.
there is no discourse. These "trolls" simply repeat whatever Faux Noos and Glenn Beck/ Ron lawl say over and over ad infinitum. They offer no argumentation/justification for their views, they simply make repeated libelous attacks on anyone who does not worship at the alter of the 1%.
As someone who has periodically been labeled as a troll, I don't think that everyone who some consider to be a troll fall into this category. I for instance am in full support of OWS, and have made that clear. My personal efforts are directed towards a more mainstream solution that I hope will bring in some participants that might not be willing to be involved in the OWS.
My site is www.lobbydemocracy.com and you can read about it at http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-have-spent-1000-hours-on-this-solution-please-ta/.
Several have accused me of being a troll because my approach to the problem is different than theirs. I respect their right to disagree with me, but I think that I am adding a valuable perspective to the conversation whether they think believe in it or not. Not being in full agreement does not make me a troll.
I have had many interesting discussions with both supporters and detractors with strong arguments.
Why not start a thread asking intellectual detractors to post their criticism of OWS in a clear way. You can tell all OWS supporters who read the forum to give points to the ones who provide good arguments, and take away points to the trolls that come and post.
link me to a thread with a strong anti-OWS argument, please.
I'm going to bed. BTW - I am an OSW supporter, and I believe you should do your own research and your own reading. It's not because we want people to learn how to work in a community that we should not do some work individually.
there are multiple reasons to troll...
boredom - nothing better to do right now
Entertainment - listening to the left wing liberals rant about how Bush is to blame for EVERYTHING.
curiosity - like watching a car wreck, you just cant take your sees off it
conflict and/or controversy - trying to be disruptive or start an argument
trying to understand the OWS movement or trying to understand the mentality of the liberal mindset.
trying to interject some other points of view. How entertaining would the forums be if everyone on here was agreeing with each other about everything? Sitting in a circle, holding hands telling each other how intelligent their last comment and thought was.
To support each other. letting the other like minded people know that they are not alone and that other people agree with their point of view.
education, and not just trying to educate the OWS, but the trolls as well.
Why can't you do these things just as well on your own anti-OWS forum?
again, it would simply people sitting around agreeing with each other. I also did not say that I am here for any or all of those reasons.
Surely if there was a dedicated anti-OWS forum, many supporters of OWS would show up there to engage in dialogue.
but a further point, if it would be boring for everyone to agree with you, then why do you seek to force others to agree with you/ridicule anyone who doesn't?
I cannot answer that question because I am not trying to force anyone, or ridiculing anyone, that disagrees with me. However, I have seen that behavior from both sides on these forums.
I think most people come to these forums out of curiosity or support. They stay for the entertainment. The ridiculing comes out when others disagree with them and fail to acknowledge their point of view.
Everybody knows OWS has problems but OWS is only the current brand. We are not OWS we are the people. We will not stop, we will not cave. Everyday a new project, new names, new brands. We will build our own industry out of this movement. We aren't going anywhere.
Why are you cutting and pasting this comment again and again?
i feel it's an appropriate response to trolls.
Your post itself is trollish. You make a false dichotomy between OWS friends/supporters and trolls. You're trying to spread the message that if one does not support OWS he is automatically a troll. This is a logical fallacy, and trollish behavior towards anti-OWS intellectuals.
Posters who raise good well formed arguments against OWS should be welcomed in the forum. Why do you want a place with only OWS supporters going around giving each other high fives and loving slaps on the butt? This would be unhealthy for your mind. Criticism from others, and auto-criticism are both very important. It helps you keep your bearings.
Let us take a moment of silence and remember the great René Descartes.
When he published his Meditations on First Philosophy, he asked intellectuals of his time to send him their criticism. In the second publication, he included their replies and his replies to those replies.
Let us now take another moment of silence and meditate on this significant idea.
Actually, it was the Meditations on First Philosophy, not the Discourse on Method, that he published with Objections and Replies (I have the Cottingham and Stoothoff edition of Descartes's complete works on my office shelf).
But more apropos, nothing I have said implies any such dichotomy. I was simply not talking about people capable of reasoned and polite/charitable philosophical discourse. I was talking about the unreasonable trolls.
Thank you for the correction. I own all of Descartes' books in French, but they are unfortunately in Canada where I left them with my brother five years ago. My memory played a little trick on me.
I believe this implies said dichotomy.
First, it means OWS friends and OWS supporters cannot be trolls by definition. I have seen some OWS friends and OWS supporters who are trolls. These people copy/paste links, etc..., just like any other troll would. They might also provide lame arguments like "We will win because we are strong!".
Second, because you have immunized OWS friends and OWS supporters from being considered trolls, we wonder why you haven't done so for OWS detractors who provide solid arguments for their position. Why should they not also be granted this immunity? Since they aren't given space in the sentence, the reader associates these intellectual OWS detractors with the trolls, the only group in the sentence left ambiguous enough to accept them.
Semantics games are fun!!
"There are apparently more trolls on this forum than OWS friends and supporters."
That's pretty obvious to most of us. The moderating policies in regards to trolling read :
"Trolling will be squashed whenever possible/reported/found out."
WHERE, I ask you, is the SQUASH???
Because we truly enjoy harassing you assholes,
what assholish qualities are salient to your categorization? Is anyone who disagrees with you an "asshole", is anyone who isn't rich an "asshole", is anyone critical of the Corporate State or it's political arms (the republicans, democrats, and the tea party) assholes? What makes one an asshole?
Well thank you, "stevo"! The last time a troll called me an "asshole", I responded in this way :
"Thank you for the apt metaphor... That oft-maligned part of the human anatomy is actually very good and noble in every respect, as it serves to expel from the body those poisons that would otherwise result in premature death.
If I can contribute, albeit in a small way, to free the "body politic" of America of its social, economic, political and religious poisons, then I will be a very honoured and happy asshole indeed."
Cheers.
Stay Classy MikeYD! You're a credit to whatever ideology you blindly cling to.
Do you consider "trolls" to be anyone who doesn't agree with this "movement"? What would be the purpose of not having debates on this issue? If all you want is a mutual admiration society then perhaps you'll have to create a site that disallows anything that shows disagreement with the OWS.
How does an adult human being get banned from a site twice and keep coming back to argue and cause chaos?
What is the motivation behind that?
If not getting paid...what then?
If I got banned from say, freerepublic.com, I'd shrug my shoulders and go on with my day. What is it that keeps you coming back here?
Don't you have other things to do?
why do I come back? Because this is a very serious issue to me. Let me ask you .... if someone organized a "protest" that did things in a way that may change this country into something you did want wouldn't you keep coming back? This movement isn't about just Zucotti Park or the myriad of camps around the US. If OWS achieves what I think they want it will have a direct effect on me. Why should I "shrug my shoulders and go on with my day"???
I am not against the premise OWS was founded on.... I do not like the idea of their wanting to change our system to direct democracy. I want to see Washington fixed, healed, not taken down and a new structure replace it.
If OWS claims of speaking out for the 99% then they have to accept that not 100% of that 99% will agree with them. If OWS wants their voices heard then they have to hear my voice as well.
And "paid"??? Really??? Look, in spite of what you believe NO ONE has to pay me to speak my mind. And it is absolutely naive to believe that the only dissension of this movement is paid dissension.
"Let me ask you .... if someone organized a "protest" that did things in a way that may change this country into something you did want wouldn't you keep coming back?"
Heh. happier...over the past 30 years the right wing has turned this country into something I don't want.
You seem to get irritated when people criticize Fox News, etc - Rupert Murdoch and Fox have been prime movers in creating propaganda to bring about this change.
But I know that going to post on Fox Nation isn't going to help that situation.
I don't like what Michelle Malkin does to spread hate & justify bigotry in this country. But I know posting on her blog or "confronting" her on Twitter isn't going to change her. And btw, she won't let me post on her blog, just for the record.
Likewise, you posting here isn't really going to accomplish what you claim to want to accomplish.
You claim to be afraid of what this movement is trying to accomplish. How is re-posting conspiracy theories and negative OWS stories, making snarky comments about Cuba, calling protestors stupid, and continuously telling us how "we" aren't going to accomplish anything going to change that?
If you want to keep tabs on what this organization is doing, you don't need to post here, you can just read.
But you are part of an agenda to disrupt this forum. That's why you keep getting banned.
Who said anything about Fox, Rupert Murdoch or Michelle Malkin (I don't even know who she is) I have never defended them or held them up as the pinnacle of MSM. I watch some of their programming just as I do MSNBC and CNN as well as national and local news. I also read The Nation and go to Media Matters' website, as well as reading some 'right" wing publications. I make my judgments on things from a lot of different points of view and from a lot of different sources. So let's just put that left wing mantra to rest right now. I
And fyi I never claimed to want to accomplish anything. I posted an article that made some claims..... and I asked members of OWS to comment..... I wanted to know what their thought were. should I have just read it and believed it??? And Cuba? Yes, I have seen defense of that country on this forum, the same ridiculous support of that country I saw in the 70's, I spoke up then and I'll speak up now. And I have a right to voice my opinion when this movement takes the charge of speaking for a group I am apart of.
My "agenda" is to have my voice heard..... just as you and OWS are doing with you occupations..... how is my voice any less than yours? How is my posts giving my opinions any different than you all marching or occupying to voice yours. I also could almost guarantee I've directed more people to the General Assembly website so the can actually see what the structure is and read the minutes.... how many people have you sent there? Do you even read the minutes to know what the GA is doing "for you"?
And it's a shame you are as rabid as you are. I have had some very could debates with some OWS people on these boards. Some actually understand my concerns and react with respect instead of unfounded accusations.... with some I have become actually friendly, we have agreed to disagree.
One more thing..... do you take notes on everyone that doesn't agree with the movement? Do you report them? I seem to remember a time in history when that was done...... it didn't turn out too well.
Liberals tend to cluster with other liberals and being exposed to opposing viewpoints causes them great discomfort. There is a lot of fallacious reasoning on the left and they don't like to delve too deeply into the reality of some of their positions because liberalism is their worldview. When that worldview is analyzed and found wanting liberals internalize the criticisms and feel personally attacked and call those critics...
trolls.
who is a 'a liberal'?
Do you consider "trolls" to be anyone who doesn't agree with you? What is the use of having a forum that does nothing but
no I consider trolls to be people who disagree with the Movement, and who are not interested in genuine dialog and reasoned argumentation about their disagreements. They simply repeat whatever Faux Noos or Glen Beck says about OWS over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and...
You know I hear the "Faux Noos" and Glenn Beck argument so much that it has almost become standard operating procedure for anyone on the left.
But got some news for you. Not everyone who disagrees with this movement is a parrot of either of those nor anyone or anything else you would care to add to that list. Contrary to your beliefs some of us actually have the ability to think for ourselves. Some of actually form our own opinions based of a wide variety of information from both sides of an/the issue.
There are a lot of us that agree with the premise that OWS was formed over but do not agree with what they are doing in this movement. And that has nothing to do with the political views of any pundit or news agency.
So what do you disagree with Faux Noos and Glenn Beck about when it comes to OWS? and pray tell, what Left leaning sources of information are you basing your opinions on? And how would you fix what is clearly deeply wrong with this country?
Quite frankly I don't listen to Glenn Beck, and although I do watch some programming on Fox I also watch MSNBC, CNN and local and national nightly news. I read the Nation as well as Media Matters, I also go to BigGovernment.com and a couple of other right wing sites. I subscribed to the NY Times as well as the Wall St. Journal and read the Washington Post on occasion. You see as a registered Independent I want to see both sides of an issue before I make a decision on what I will support.
What would I do to "fix" this countries problems? In regards to this movement I would focus my attention on Washington, as they are the people that managed to create the monster " Wall St " has become. Building that "community" that OWS is doing is an exercise in futility, and is not what most American's see as the answer to our ills.
Claiming that our beef should be with "Washington" is incorrect. Suppose we impeach Obama, Elect a Tea Party President, eliminate the Fed. What's to keep the Corporations from buying whatever Gov't we build then? They've already bought one, why not another? Until we dissolve the Corporate State...nothing will change. Washington is Pinnochio, and we need to kill Gapeto.
Did I say anything about impeaching our President? You realize that our President ins't a dictator, right? Politicians are very territorial when it comes to keeping their jobs. If they get the idea that public sentiment will turn against them they are real quick to change their course of action. Which would give time to find candidates that actually will work for the good of this country instead of themselves.
Well, all I can say is with out Washington "Gapeto" has nothing to work with. ... does he?
Trolls are trolls. Go read up on what internet trolling is.
There's plenty of it here and it isn't just the people who "disagree".
People post all kinds of filth on here non-stop and hardly any of you "loyal opposition" ever say anything about it.