Forum Post: Why so violent?
Posted 11 years ago on Jan. 4, 2013, 11:28 p.m. EST by TheStarvingCrusader
(25)
from Killingly, CT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
We Americans love our 10 second sound bite answers, but are really digging deep enough on the nature of violence in America? Let me hit a short list: Its guns... Its not enough guns..... Its violent video games..... its violent movies...... its because we ended school prayer....... its because we allowed gays to marry...... !!!!!! The next time you hear something like this ask yourself a basic question? What happens in other nations that have the same approach? The are other industrialized nations that watch the same violent movies we do....are they committing violence against each other like America? Go down the list and the answer willl be NO!!! So what is it America, why so predatory toward each other? That folks is the million dollar question.....WHY SO PREDATORY! We see predators harming Americans on Wall Street, we see them in our institutions and corporations abusing rules and power and harming Americans, we see them shooting random strangers. Let me ask you might all this be connected? If a good deed can create a butterfly effect of mutiple good deeds. What effect does the waterfall of predatory action have on our society??????? Any takers? I have more but I want to see where everyone is on this take.
I think it's because we've become far too tolerant in an effort to appease the supporters of the mentally deficient and minority drug abusers; we should draw and quarter these people and we don't.
Maybe it's the dissapointment you experience when you realize your country was just a corporation all along.
I dont know - here is my guess on three items:
The mass murders like Columbine, did not exist or were very rare 50 years ago. Even when automatic machine guns were legal. At some point, a few decades ago, the nra switched form being pro-owners to pro-sellers. I think this is a big connection.
The gun "culture" is centered substantially in the "confederacy".
The "single" shootings are VERY related to illegal drugs.
If a day's supply of heroin cost $1, this will come close to ending.
If you think that's the reason then let me ask you - how many of those individuals who committed murders in all the schools were members of a gun club and participated in sporting events at these clubs? None.
But they all do have one thing in common - they were taking drugs to keep them sane.
lanza & his mother went to a shooting range regularly
which is totally irrelavant
Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:
Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned / 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned / 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned / 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned / 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned / 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned / 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned / 0.90 homicides
Clearly the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.
More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.
When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.
For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9
Here's a link to Australias gun ban - look at it and then tell me it works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyS3CEIbpJo
OK - I watched - guns were not banned - semi-automatics were banned
Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world. Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned / 2.97 homicides Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned / 0.14 homicides
The two quotes that stood out for me: "When they took away my guns, it broke my heart"
...................................... I think he was talking about his penis.
An old geezer complained, if you have a gun at home "you will defend yourself". Sad that he thinks an armed robber would NOT shoot him first. Note: he SURVIVED the home invasion.
Didn't solve the problem though did it? That's the problem with thinking banning certain firearms will solve the problem - it didn't.
First figure out how to solve the "violent person problem" and the firearms ownership problem will go away - otherwise it won't we will still have people killing other people.
people have been killing other people for 10,000+ years
the real answer - God should get a do over
Voluntary handovers. High prices paid.
What didn't work? I'll remind you that I was here in Australia when it happened.
So what do you think of the video - do you agree with it or not?
It's probably in our genes:
http://www.livescience.com/2231-humans-crave-violence-sex.html
I think that saying there is a core instinct for violence goes straight to or survival instict. What I see in modern America is more cultural than instinct driven. It is a movement of economic, institutional and violence seeking predators. I believe these preditors feed off each other, much the way kind acts can generate more kind acts. There is now a cultural cool to sticking it to a fellow American if you have the power to do so.
It does indeed have its roots in our survival instincts, which makes perfect sense to me. The PROBLEM is our culture, not gun ownership or the origins of our violent tendencies. Rather than portraying violence in a negative light, as it should be doing, our media glorifies it; portrays it as manly and cool. The media exploits our natural instincts for ulterior motives, be it violence, sex, whatever. One motive, of course, is money. Another, I believe, is manipulation.
http://www.livescience.com/5333-evolution-human-aggression.html
I think it's because the vast majority of the X,Y and part of the melinimum generation are on drugs and as a result causes them to become insecure, inferior and afraid. So, using a firearm in an act of violence gives them the feel of power and strength.
Why do you think the vast majority of this generation play violent games. When they win it makes them feel good especially when they talk about it with their buds.
[Deleted]
Yes, you. You failed history.
the Romans crucified some where around 3 millions Jews and Christians
Now, go bring the proof. First the amount and, secondly, that they were crucified for their religion.
Romans did persecute many peoples. Rome stands as a great example of the decline of a nation in the age of aquisition. I would highlight Rome in order to understand how quickly wheels come off in that age. America is in the age of aqusition but culturally it would be best expressed as the age of the preditor. Gainning wealth at any cost takes a back seat to doing it at the expence of your fellow American, and further the are other classes of predator that have no real interest in the money, its about harming those in the society around them. So are institutional predators, some are pure predators seeking the violence rush. It is my contention that these predators feed off the acts of their fellow predators irreguardless of what class they are in.
Romans did persecute many peoples.
Which ones?
I was surprised to read in an article that the UK has the most violent crime in the EU. Even more shocked to see that the US wouldn't even make it into the top ten (It was reported in a 2007 article in the Mail). It leads me to believe we are simply violent in nature. Because we are diverse in our desires and motivations so I don't see violence as a characteristic that would have just one cause.
As for the predatory nature, again it may have different causes for different individuals too. If it's done to you you feel justified in doing to to others, a sort of reverse golden rule. Is the predatory effect actually growing or are we just looking at it and talking about it more?
note that UK violent crime is NOT gun crime
Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:
Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned / 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned / 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned / 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned / 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned / 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned / 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned / 0.90 homicides
Clearly the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.
More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.
When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.
For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9
Yes I'm aware of that, but the initial post was about violence not just gun related homicide. My comment simply was that human beings are to some extent violent by nature. When I came across the article from a UK paper I was surprised that their rate of violent crime is more then twice that of the US. Adding guns to that just increases the severity of the violent act, but violence isn't strictly an American affliction.
Finally to say we have a lower violence rate than the UK takes a lot of creative shifting of numbers.
It was violent crime, but I'm not sure what criteria was used. I googled it for some reason and came across several different articles from UK newspapers. The US has a greater raw number of violent crimes, but the rate per hundred thousand people is about half that of the UK and has been for several years at least.
So it's a mindset? A group-think issue?
I've been interested in this for a while.
I'd appreciate some links, if you don't mind.
My comments on violence are largely my opinion, The mention of the UK articles is made only to indicate this isn't just a problem for the US. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html from 2009, and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html from 2013)
The original post asked for an opinion, violent behavior is world wide. I believe violent feelings are part of our nature. The exact trigger that makes a specific individual act out violently likely varies from person to person. Certainly if a social group accepts or expects violence then members will respond in that direction. I also believe if a society acts indifferently toward violence then the behavior will become more common.
Thankyou.
I've traversed the various climbs of life, and come to the conclusion that we are apes that can talk.
The tenuous tether that connects us with a sense of civility is transitory at best. We feed off our fear of remonstration, more than we feed off our expectation of approval.
In short, we don't act to achieve recognition; we act to avoid punishment.
It's a tighwire we walk. What say you?
I agree. I remember reading about research that says behavior is best modified and shaped by infrequent, random reward. Whenever we get away with bad behavior that can be a reward of sorts and encourage more of it.
I'm not sure it's just to avoid punishment, although that works for most people. Punishment can certainly modify our attitude and behavior, but it needs to be administered every time. Thinking of criminals, the threat of jail doesn't modify their behavior, probably getting away with things occasionally gives them the random reward. It may also make them believe they won't ever be caught.
There are people that make an effort to be moral, but few that do so toward everyone outside a small circle of friends and family. Even here, where the majority seem to want to build a better world, you will see flashes of violent feeling unleashed toward anyone with a different opinion. It seems natural and easy for us to act out against strangers.
You ended with a reference to the butterfly effect. If doing good can create a chain of positive events, then acting openly preditory should have the same effect. I the violence in America is based on a preditory mindset started at the top of American society and is now bleeding down into the mainstreet ranks. I believe this trend is an era of a preditory mindset. Using power to harm a fellow American is now almost a sport. Violence is just one layer of this. People do it economically, politically, institutionally. I have intentionally not gone into my deeper view on this and intend to get folks talking and asking the question why. 2 things must happen to ferry us from this era 1.There must be a recognition of personal debt to this nation and those who came before us. That others sacrificed and we owe that sacrifice to build a stronger nation and not just take for ourselves. 2. The butterfly effect....those that are not predatory need to create our own ripple, and stand against the predatory class when they act to harm those around them.
[Deleted]
Do they torture their people?
Do they send prisoners to countries where it is legal to torture people?
Do they hold people under water, and drown them and revive them?
[Deleted]
We are only responsible for what our military forces are doing in other nations.
Over three million deaths in Iraq, The death toll in Cambodia was bad enough, and then it was Korea, and Vietnam and we don't know how many dead in south America because it was all clandestine shit funded by the CIA. You do know that crack cocaine was introduced by your own govt under Reagan?
You say that there's no reason why we are to blame for what is going on in other nations, but you simply aren't looking at the big picture. Iran's democratically elected leader, Dr. Mossedegh was oustered by an orchestrated coup run by the MI6 and CIA in 1953 to 54.
Do you believe that if an Iranian coup organised a political takeover of the US of A would you all be forgetting that it happened?
[Deleted]
It probably is a waste of time talking to me if you hold that attitude.
One day you might realise that your govt has been stringing you along for their own monetary benefit.
[Deleted]
If you're assuming that you can simply invade and impose your lifestyle, then I'm sorry. It doesn't happen that way. Never has.
[Deleted]
There were no brutalities and sufferings in Libya. You are a victim of the corporate press machine. The western brutalities are far more atrocious than those you assume to be happening before US invasion.
I know, right? Theft of a nation. And I ask.......when do we call these actions genocide?
"no brutalities and sufferings in Libya" ? You don't know what you're talkin about. Khadaffy was a maniac brutal dictator.
You defend his brutality, I'll stand with the innocent moderate civilians trying to create a democracy.
Then you can place your head between your knees, and ask for jesus to help you find your arsehole.
Oh, and watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THlaMUq6MKU
Russian Television? Oh so you work for the Russians. Libya did have deals with Russians didn't they?. And you are an illuminati believer?
LOL. You're a tin hat wearing conspiracy wacko!!!
Figures only the stupid could buy all that nonsense.
The muslims you speak of here are the trailor park rednecks of the Islamic world and they fall into 2 classes 1. the uneducated and 2. the radical. The people you reference represent far less than 1% of the Islamic population. They are the rough equivelent of the Christian identity movement here in America. If you ask christian who? You just made my point. We as Americans are far more violent in general society than most Islamic nations. Exceptions would be where the kooks and the redneck muslim rule (taliban/afghanistan).
pat condell trouble with islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhN6CG1zCRc
cut off girls nose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h_RaXdvlTY
MALALA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F5yeW6XFZk
christians burned by muslims http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQpj2bFM7s0
islam freedom of speech – Christian sentenced to death http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J_cqtdH26c
Pat Condell is a rabid phukking lunatic.
If you take his attitude to like on board, don't bother with a language, because you won't need to communicate with anyone for more than the time it takes to blow something up.
Biblical Battered Wife Syndrome: Christian Women and Domestic Violence
Missouri Religious Group Investigated in Slaying of Bethany Deaton
Fresno woman is set on fire by her husband, police say
Husband found guilty of setting wife on fire
Fla. woman Megan Kimbrough, allegedly set on fire by husband, dies of infection
Mixed-Martial Artist Who Ripped Heart, Tongue Out of Friend Pleads Guilty
Man accused in hanging death of Forest Grove woman pleads guilty to murder charge
Report: Man Who Was 'Tortured' by the Prospect of Obama's Re-Election Kills Family, Self
Dad accused of killing 3 daughters called mom and said, ‘You can come home now because I killed the kids,’ she says
Skokie 911 Call: "I Killed Them" Man confesses to killing daughter, granddaughter
Husband kills his estranged wife, self Before shootings, he told his mother that reconciliation was his desire
Cleveland Hopkins: Man kills wife, shoots himself at off-site airport employee parking lot
Father wounds son, kills daughter, self
Dad charged in daughter’s murder held on $2M bail
Love that sanity.
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/6/the_crusade_for_a_christian_military
http://www.wayoflife.org/database/protestantpersecutions.html
http://www.exmormon.org/violence.htm
http://www.examiner.com/article/anti-abortion-violence-christian-fundamentalist-terrorism
http://paradise7.hubpages.com/hub/Domestic-Violence-and-Fundamentalist-Christianity
they are backward barbarians. they want to impose their way of existence on the rest of the world and dont mind killing themselves in the effort to do so.
You are a backwoods barbarian if you approve of your government's foreign policy. Your gov wants to impose their way of existence on the rest of the world, and don't mind killing millions of people to do it.
Are you up with that, homie?
you really have no understanding or either islam or american values.
American values have nothing to do with foreign policy.
Islam has nothing to do with extemist Mujahedin who were trained by the CIA during the Cold war.
the goal is islam is to have everyone under sharia law,..........whether they want it or not.
And the goal of the oligarchs is to have everyone under usurous debt for life. Whether they want it or not.
Sounds like every other government since the beginning of time