Forum Post: Why Occupy Wall Street FAILED
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 15, 2011, 6:24 a.m. EST by jjpatrick
(195)
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What did you expect the banks to do? Pay off all debt and loans?
I was out there at the protests, but in my mind, they failed to target the only person who would have had to comply with the protesters and that was their old friend who promised he would stand up against the banks and enact 'change.'
Could' you have imagine the change that would occur if the same people who were among the thousands who showed up at his inauguration becomes the same people who protest against him. The amount of air time they would receive that would compel the President to comply or else face the ruin of the Democratic party who had become Wall Street's party and his legacy.
But instead...occupy will go down as a failure because they too compromised.
But it's not too late, but there's no way around it.
OWS has to decide. Will they finally cut ties to their old friend Obama who has been cheating with his corporate buddies. As the founder of Adbusters had said, he's become a gutless wonder. The protest needs to target the President because only he has power to make radical reform. I'm not even talking about the Bill Gate's Robin hood tax that leaders are thinking of adopting except Canada, but even more than that. I guarantee the banks are not going to give out a 1000 dollars to every customer any time soon...you need to direct the protest to the one who gave it to the banks.
Could you imagine thousands protesting against Obama who were supposed to be his base. The only ppl that have the most influence on him other than the weapons dealers and wall street whom he's received the most funds from, are the voters who got him there. The leader has too much charisma and charm for the people to break out of their matrix much like many of the leaders in the past-whether good or bad.
They haven't failed! They WOKE MILLIONS of People up. History will look back on the occupy movement fondly. There is a lot more to come out of this movement. You can't expect to win every battle. People will regroup, and more people will be woken up, and "We the People" will take back this country.
Being that you "won" just go home them.
I don't agree that the movement is "over" at all. Actually even this battle was won. Surely we all knew that sooner or later they were going to do just what they did. Millions have been shaken out of their slumber.
What slumber? People have been paying attention to this movement since week one. This has been a talking point throughout the country for two months, and all that has come out of this thing is a horrible smell. So the protesters will rebuild their little shantytown. Then what?
Lots more talk that leads to nothing.
Yes, I agree with you that OW has been a talking point for months now. Yes, it's changed the discourse. Smells? I'm not a war hero but I was drafted back in 1967. Ever smell a bunch of basic trainees on bivouac? What do you think soldiers on maneuvers smell like? What did George Wshington smell like at Valley Forge? "This is what struggle smells like." And so what?
Are you really comparing the Occupy protesters to soldiers in the revolutionary war? Most of them are there only because they are too ashamed to live in their parents house and work at Subway.
Maybe now that the party is over they will get organized, come up with some actual issues and present them in a meaningful way in Washington. Or just give up and go back to mom and dad's McMansion.
I am sorry you think living with your parents and working at a Subway is beneath you (or anyone else). It is a starting point to build a work ethic, build skills and find your next job. Everyone at Subway is looking for their next job. A promotion in their lives.
It's not beneath me. That is my point. It is beneath the people who would rather camp in a public park than to be considered a "laborer."
Yes, I am calling them heroes. Enough of our back and forth.
Let's use tax payer money to build a statue honoring these heroes.
Good idea. After the revolution there will be statues and people like you will be talking about how you were a supporter.
I'd be happy to support, if there was something TO support. Why do I have to support people banging on drums and eating free food? Because they have make believe meetings and talk about doing nothing? Because they're going to disrupt the subways and make it harder for me to get to WORK on Thursday?
You don't have to be with the protesters to be with the idea that things have to change.
The protesters are bound to make mistakes in the real world. I don't hold that against them. The problem is that the only way a grass roots anti established order movement gets evan heard is by audacious and disruptive tactics, and these will inevitably inconvenience people who are not at fault. Too bad but that's how omelets are made. Two steps forward, one step back.
Sounds like you're making excuses to keep the party going and to keep the free organic burritos coming out of the kitchen. Someone needs to put on a suit and lead a march on Washington and speak at the Lincoln Memorial. Then you can start making comparisons to the Revolutionary War, among others. Until then, it's just a party in the park.
I haven't even been at the park, let alone eaten their food. They cooked and ate at Valley Forge. Enough of this back and forth.
This movement is hardly over. So the Police tromped through the camp. So what? The Occupiers have been expecting that since they started. They'll be back within the week.
Occupy cannot yet be counted out as having failed.
The past two months have been the nascent moments of the birthing of a new paradigm.
Forcing these Americans off the streets and out of the encampments will simply migrate them to the best organizing tool in the history of politics, the Internet.
There have been successes. There will be more successes.
See my post: #Occupy American democracy http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-american-democracy/
I agree with your last statement. It is not too late. It's time for OWS to regroup and focus and finally let our voice be heard to those in Washington.
What is our one demand? It's time to finally tell Washington to cut off their ties with Wall Street and finally represent the people.
The MAIN reason why this is failing is real simple. NO CONCRETE AGENDA.
I predicted it would happen several weeks ago and outlined it in a post that got mixed criticism.
Maybe if people would go back and read my post you will realize and understand what has gone wrong with the movement.
Whether they had a concrete agenda or not, they still would have been removed from the park.
And the reason?? because OWS has done nothing but become a nuisance to the establishment.
I'm sorry, but like it or not, OWS has become more of a "hippy movement" to piss off the cities and towns across America.
Think about it, now the agenda is to clog up the subways... Come on, let's be serious here. This type of direction is just going to cause more police force to remove protesters. Does this fix anything?
Remember what OWS originally was set out to do, to make a change. What changes have been made?? No direction, no agenda, no voice in Washington, just a bunch of "radicals" pounding drums, holding signs with thousands of different ideas. This is what this has all turned out to be and in the government's eyes, OWS is just taking up space and forces resources like the police departments to work on removing protesters.
If this continues, OWS will eventually fizzle out, people will get hurt, more arrests and the end result, nothing will change.
I am all for OWS as long as it has one message and it stands by it no matter what it is. Cause A Change! but don't waste your time trying to beat the police or the local government because you will lose. Plain and simple.
This movement started a few months ago so how can you expect immediate results in such a short time, please be reasonable.
Come on Barb... Are you serious?? Again there are no "immediate results" because there is NO AGENDA! OWS is so wishy washy.
I don't know how many times I have to say "NO AGENDA, NO CHANGE"
OWS has no agenda, so what do you want to see as a result? OH OK, Let's go clog up the subway system.. Is that the agenda? Well the result from that is more police presence and arrests. What is this accomplishing. NOTHING except a news reel to be shown on TV. BIG F'ing DEAL!
Let me give you a quick story and the impact end result.
In Georgia there was a new B-B-Q restaurant where the owner was deemed a "racist" within 30 days after he opened. People protested and boycotted the restaurant. within 60days the restaurant folded and was forced to close its' doors.
There was a agenda set by the locals, to run the SOB out of business and they accomplished it very quickly.
When you have one voice and people united on accomplishing an agenda can be achieved rather quickly.
If you were to go back and read my original post a month ago, I gave OWS the agenda to act on and IF people took it seriously, there would be many companies feeling the impact of the movement.
I am an economics major with a MBA and now retired. Let me give you a small tidbit of information. If everyone in the U.S. decided not to buy gas for their cars for ONE day, it would force the gas companies to lower the price of gas by a minimum of 5 cents per gallon for at least 30 days because of supply, demand and reserve issues . That is the power of boycotting.
If you were to go back and look at my original post 28 days ago and people would have acted on it instead of throwing all kinds of B.S. in the mix about illegal bombings in other countries, and the Iran nuke programs etc. that had absolutely NOTHING to do with posting, OWS would have seen some changes or the impact of the agenda by now.
Look, even if OWS fails, the system is still failing and we the people need to do something about it. If you have any suggestions, please respond.
You want to see a cause and affect.. Have everyone participating in the OWS movement sit home ONE day and keep calling Goldman Sachs's Main line number and jam their switchboards. See what happens.. That's a pretty simple experiment. Here's the number 212.902.1000 have fun!
Fuck yea! you're right! I once tried to convince my community to go for one day without buying gas for the reasons you stated, but even the most "revolutionary" people involved whined about how it wouldn't change anything! wtf is wrong with people?....why don't people listen to common sense and reason?
The problem here is simple. The OWS movement is primarily made up of young people who think they know how the system works but don;t have a clue. When they listen to the elders maybe they will learn.
I don't have time to sit here and write solutions all day long that fall on deaf ears. Seems like there are to many "know it alls" but they really don't know anything.
My message a month a go was plan and simple. BOYCOTT those companies who are showing enormous profits and not re-investing those profits into job growth. If these companies don't have jobs to offer internally, force them to re-invest in their local communities to create jobs.
Boycott banks who are NOT lending money. If they are not lending, pull your money out of those banks and move it to those banks or credit unions that are lending.
Boycott any company that is off-shoring more then 30% of their workforce.
These three SIMPLE things will cause a MAJOR impact.
ENOUGH SAID!
I once started a small business based around local goods and refused to stock outsourced goods, it was hard to compete with the Chinese made goods because of the low price, but I held on and people eventually figured out that the goods in my business were superior in quality, that little shop, had a very large impact on the local community, although my competitors after a few years were pissed.......
""What did you expect the banks to do? Pay off all debt and loans?""
The banks like any other industry , should break if they made bad bussines giving money to people that will never paid back. Is that so dificult to understand.
The FED or whatever should not save the banks that makes bad bussines. There must not be a "TOO BIG TO FAIL", just let them fail. It anyways a trouble if it does fails or not...
The banks should forgive loans on those fields that outsourced to other countries.
Not the banks, the bank must declare on bankrupt. The people or company that might be forgive loans, must be done by goberment, or by the FED, if the debt is under some "humanitary" or "strategy" consideration, tax might forgive some debts.
failure? are you kidding? you must be misguided.
"OWS" won and it will grow bigger. Leaving a park does not mean leaving the planet!
Banks will fail! There is no second bailout!
They did get a 2nd bailout and a 3rd by no other than Obama
Right I almost forgot. Banks are the modern cheating society - they steal you money without being productive!
Never ask a bank for any loans - if a Idea is good, then there are plenty of private investors that will join. But never make your self a slave of the banks.
I wish people would stop being so stupid. OWS ended because the cops were literally killing people, arresting the innocent, conducting chemical attacks, putting war veterans in the hospital and generally pushing people away from their freedom of assembly. OWS ended because the cops ended it. Stop being stupid. OWS only failed in that it never attacked the police back like the protesters in England, Greece and Sweden. That is why OWS ended. Lets not forget that the original NYC group was literally pushed out of their camp. Don't blame OWS, blame yourself for letting the cops step on people.
OWS has not failed but at the rate it is going it is headed that way! Something big needs to happen in this movement and fast. If the whole Day of Action happens I think it will be a big victory. Something like that will get a lot of media attention and this is something that this movement really needs at this point.
It is just the beginning there is a fundamental law of the universe at work here, "What you resit persist". Ask yourself the question who is the resister now. "The system" is. While OWS pacifically occupies with little resistance even when pushed against (which is good). So no matter what they do it will keep on growing because if they resist the change, every time something new will morph out that will FAVOR OWS and make the cost/pain of resisting higher and higher for the system.
Whether you or they see it or not, they have the sticks and whatever end they choose to use they are at the wrong end of it.
Look at Portland where the police had to back out because the crowd was just too big to handle peacefully.
As long as we remain in peace which could even mean the possibility of being wrongfully arrested the bigger the movement will grow.
Peace is paramount and the corner stone of this revolution
I guess putting the word failed in the headline is a good journalistic trick but one would have to have very little faith to even think this is over.
The time HAS come. If they resist change, it will grow faster, if they do nothing it will grow naturally. Every time they expose how absurd the system is and more and more "enforcers" will start questioning their own repressive actions because on a soul level it hurts to hurt people.
Remember everybody is playing their part in this shift to a higher level of functioning for our commune reality. No one is to blame because WE the 99% have allowed it to grow this far, until we couldn't take it anymore.
Everybody was asleep at the wheel, we were all oblivious and compliant toward the authority above us and those above us are oblivious and compliant to their authority all the way up. The awakening is a grass root movement starting where we are now.
The dice are already stacked in our favor because because the ONLY tools they have
Folks it is very simple. All the cops, judges, gov. agent ALL have sworn an oath to server and protect...the PEOPLE...not the corporations. They have lost their ways like we have lost ours. It is our job to enlighten them and remind/show them they are serving the wrong master. They too bought the illusion. Welcome them with compassion and forgiveness and they will too see the truth of what they are doing and how wrong it is.
If they resist it will persit, that's, a law
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It hasn't failed. This is like the trillionth thread on how Occupy has failed.
Unless this is a call to get behind whichever candidate you have deemed the best. Is it?
The title is deceiving. It means OWS needs to go after the enablers who are in Washington and the only ppl who can actually do something. Will banks all of a sudden say to all of their customer.. here's all a thousand dollars? No, it means you finally have to give up your pride and say to your old friend Obama, enough is enough. these are the changes we want in.
Ah, pride is it? I wasn't aware that it was an either or situation.
If you want to live up to see the revolution that you envision.. it is either or. If you compromise, then it's over and we have more of the same.
Could you imagine thousands protesting against Obama who were supposed to be his base. The only ppl that have the most influence other than the weapons dealers and wall street, are the voters who got him there.
http://occupywallst.org/article/occupy-highway-99-march-washington/
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The main reason i think it failed was it had no leader. You see many people yell at other people on the site because they "said something that the OWS doesn't stand for" but without a leader anything is what the OWS stands for. As long as one protestors believes it then it is one demand.
agreed
It's not leaderless it's decentralized leadership, it's a grass root movement and this is exactly what makes it stronger than an ideological/political battle. it is visceral and is born from a deep long brewing fundamental truth that people will keep "yelling" for until it is answered. The other side all they have is their pay check with their boss telling them what to do.
if its not leaderless then name the leader.
I don't think it failed. It got publicity for not having an agenda. But I would like to see an agenda, and goals. Then work toward accomplishing the goals. Here are three we should strive for: 1) Less governemnt regulation and allow more free enterprise so all these young people can create companies and provide quality services. Once they do that, big companies will have to compete with the quality of service provided by the young generation. 2) Hold our elected officials to working together as one representative body. Neither Dems or Repubs are right all the time. Lets work together to find good solutions. 3) I use to think the media was American's own worst enemy. Now I read some of these posts and see that many Americans are sheep being led to the slaughter house. Wake up and read what you wrote (I read this twice). Solutions are serious work, don't throw crap out there and expect it to earn respect.
Obama’s $3.7 Trillion Budget Calls for Military Spending Increases and Deep Cuts to Social Service Programs
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/15/obamas_37_trillion_budget _calls_for
excerpt JOHN NICHOLS: Well, it’s just horrifying, Amy. You know, one of the most frustrating things is how our media covers budgets. And it is, frankly, a repetition of spin. And so, so much of the media reported yesterday that the White House was proposing $70 to $80 billion worth of cuts in Pentagon spending. What that really is is Secretary Gates saying, "Here are some things that we don’t think we need." At the end of the day, however, there are not cuts in military spending. This is an expansion of Pentagon spending at a dramatic level, three to five percent, depending on how you measure it.
And the important thing is, here you have President Obama saying that they’ve gotten down to the lowest level of domestic spending, domestic discretionary spending, since the Eisenhower era. That certainly sounds good as a sound bite, but understand what that means. It means that now Pentagon spending, defense spending, is a dramatically higher level of what our budget goes to. And I wish President Obama would remember what Dwight Eisenhower said about defense spending versus domestic spending. Dwight Eisenhower said, every time you buy a bomb, every time you pay for a bullet, that’s money that comes out of building a school or putting a roof on a house. I just think the President is making a lot of wrong choices here.
PLEASE READ Glenn Greenwalds 'With Liberty and Justice for Some' on the Two Tier Justice system and the Obama administration drenched in banking lobbyists and campaign contributions. ' We have been conned ladies and gentlement.
Time to wake up from the ' American Dream'
Are you referring to spineless Obama?
It failed because they are all effing morons. All I can say is it's about time. Bloomberg is a nitwit. Always was and always will be.
What amazes me is that when to "Robin Hood" tax comes up, it is only people like Bill Gates. What about the devil incarnate George Soros? Or what about uber-rich celebrities and sports figures? You know why? Because most of the forementioned millionaires\billionaires are liberals and must be protected. The point jjpatrick makes is right on target. Where is the occupy Washington? The banks have congress in their back pocket, and the banks got Obama elected! (20 million from Goldman-Sachs for Obama's campaign).
Argentina, I really can't take your financial theories seriously when you don't even know how to spell the word "business".
It's also a failure (or failing) because it not only didn't promote any changes in Washington, but also it ended up distracting Americans to the unjust wars overseas and the bombing of innocent civilians in Libya for example.
Now that the real occupation of the Middle East is under American control, expect Obama to spew out his lies again.
OWS couldn't even support the Robin Hood tax that people like Bill Gates and politicians like Cameron and even Obama had once promoted.
Move your Money was successful. Actions people can take from home and get behind will have support. People can't decide if they are for OWS if OWS doesn't even state its position. That should be something America can get behind. Take the money out of politics, reform taxes, get rid of riders, remove the legislation passed for corporations, undo the bad policies that are killing this country and setting the scene for a great depression. Tell the people what you want already!!! This isn't a hard sell, lots of people want to support OWS but they don't all see the need to camp out. Has it failed, no. Has it even really started yet???
Okay but apparently "we" got booted... so now what? Are "we" coming back? The occupation of public space is important symbolically. The Occupy Paris movement is a small camp in the middle of Paris's version of corporate America. Good conversations are taking place as mainstream folks pass by and have a look. OWS needs to engage the real 99%... the general public. Including Tea Party types etc.
Yes, they do need to try to serve more of the 99%. The feeling I am getting is that the OWS movement is in the business of selling a method that is impractical more than providing an avenue for people to address the problems created by bought and paid for politicians.
is it the camping/ occupying and disobeying police that is the "impractical method" for you? certainly an imperfect method, and one that requires a great deal of wisdom and discipline of the Dr. King type (which is a high bar indeed). but it is also a "method" that America understands culturally and is at least theoretically enshrined in the 1st Amendment. Thanks for replying! Stay engaged.
I don't favor Camping, I don't favor GA's people they all have to be physically present in one place to have a say or input. You can take votes online from the people at home too. You can involve more people. You can use boycotts. You can have marches. You can write legislation. You can sign petitions. You can have a person empowered to negotiate. You can be affective or ineffective. OWS looks purposely ineffective to me.
Have you been to one of the Occupy sites, camps, or GA's?
Nope. Right now I don't even have a car. I'd like to support it but I have kids. I can't go camp out. A lot of people can't. I feel OWS as a movement has put its methods over the message.
I want to go but I've been in Paris since early September. Still I considered and am considering going to NYC. But in the meantime, OWS came to me, here in Paris! Smaller, and with some cultural differences... but the spirit is very positive. The GA's are not super "effective" in terms of results... but as a process, it feels good. People are engaging. see my blog posts about it if you are interested: http://beamerbikeclub.blogspot.com/ If not... take care. See you in the streets!?
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They failed b/c they were nothing more than a disorganized roving clusterfuck.