Forum Post: Why is it that the absurd threads get more activity than the reasonable ones.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 4:13 p.m. EST by LobbyDemocracy
(615)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I have been frustrated by the fact that the threads that are on the outskirts of the reasonable have so much activity and the threads that involve serious consideration of the issues facing us tend to go by unnoticed. I think if we are going to move forward and make something of this movement the exact opposite needs to happen. We need to find the central themes that we can unite around and move forward with.
My person concern has to do with the power of the lobbyists representing big business and special interests on Capitol Hill. How is it that even though laws have been passed governing the power of lobbyists in Washington, DC in the wake of the Jack Abermoff scandal, the amount of money spent on the process continues to increase? The money shifts around from one direction to another. They find ways to circumvent the restrictions and bring the desires of big business and special interests to our elected leaders. The Supreme Court has sided with big business spending whatever it wants to spend to influence the process, citing their right to free speech. What are we to do? How can we overcome the $3.5 billion dollars that was spent lobbying last year?
I am writing this because I would like to propose a solution to that quandary. Rather than continuing to attempt to muzzle the voices of the lobbyists, why don't we just empower the majority and bring their voice to the table. Although I am aware of the fact that there is something disturbing about the necessity of this process, something must be done to make our elected leaders attend to the people that they are supposed to be representing.
I am founding a lobbying organization dedicated to representing the interests of the majority. The organization is not conservative or liberal. It is not here to represent Democrats or Republicans. It is here to represent the interests of the American people, whatever those interests might be.
We will be polling our membership to determine what issues we will support. Any issue that reaches 65% support or opposition nationally we will take up and bring to the government. We will sift through the data district by district and find every district whose members are aligned with the national polling data. We will contact the elected representatives of all of these districts with the desires of their constituents.
In addition to the polling data guiding the direction of the organization, it will also give us strength in dealing with our elected leaders. We will have solid data supporting the fact that their constituents stand for the issue, and expect them to take action on it. The elected officials will have the opportunity to write back to their constituents via the website. We will open up the communication lines between the majority and their elected representatives and make sure that the representatives understand that if they do not heed the desires of their constituents they will be voted out of office.
If you are interested please check us out at www.lobbydemocracy.com. If you like what you see, or have questions please let us know here so that we can rise to the top of the list and be seen by others.
You see more activity on absurd threads for a simple psychological reason: it is more compelling to respond to something you disagree with than to respond to something that you already agree with.
Ha. First, I guess that means that people agree with me. Second, if that is true then the best thing I could do is make a compelling argument against what I think is right, and then allow others to respond with arguments that would disagree my listed argument, thereby supporting my implied post.
He he, reverse logic! I like how you think there. :)
In other words, engage in satire :)
On another note, if you're in the mood for discussion you could respond to one of my posts that has slipped into obscurity, I'd certainly appreciate it ;-)
http://occupywallst.org/forum/theory-community-not-communism/
"A Modest Proposal"...anyone?
Done. Please take a minute to check out my site when you get the opportunity.
Its funny that the people that say this is so dumb would take the time to troll on the forum. And sup rising how many too
this thread is getting a lot of activity........
Also, why is it that people respond to the title of a post and not the content of the post?
Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNi_wWLTy2Q
Go to 6:30 in the video. Ron Reagan, Jr, ironically nails it about why the Republicans are as bad as they are and why we must fight.
because your cause is fucking stupid and it won't succeed.
What exactly is the cause that you are dooming to failure?
whatever it is the occupants of Wall Street think they're going to change, because I feel like they don't even know exactly what it is they're trying to change anyway, when I watch the coverage, everyone wants something stupid. I forget what it is, but I saw signs with the most irrelevant shit on them. This cause is attracting bums, and people pissed off about stupid shit. Nothing going to change. All of the occupants will leave and return to their old lives.
If you didn't read my post I am trying to create a structure that will help support change. I am not supporting a particular platform. I am just trying to let the voice of the majority return to Capitol Hill.
You seem to be aware that the politicians are bought by corporations but think if they knew what the people wanted they would choose that instead of the money? I say they do know and don't care. They take that risk to side with money over the people. It's a gamble of sorts. Yes, they want to get re-elected but they want the money more.
If you are saying raise money for your cause to equal that of the corporations I say your crazy and I'm moving to Thailand.
I am not trying to match them with money. We will not give money to campaigns. The money in politics is there to buy votes. You can use votes as the currency. It is more powerful than the money. The only way you can do it though is to convince out elected leaders that the people are strongly behind an issue and if they do not support it they will be voted out of office.
They already know .
If that statement were true they would already be out of office.
Oh man....you know about the best of two evils rule right?
I guess I am just more optimistic about the possibility of change than you are. Although I think that it has slid a long way from its original purpose, the AARP is a strong representation of what can be achieved with a strong voting block. They do not give money to candidates, but have an enormous amount of power because of the voting block they represent.
My friend, getting a person into office isn't the problem as you may have witnessed in the past elections. It's getting them to stay good on their word when big money comes calling. Big money doesn't care who the puppet in office is....just that they cave to the money. Get it?
It isn't a problem of understanding your criticism. My organization is designed to express the power of the majority between elections and attempt to solve the problem that you are espousing.
The Obama visiting NYC troll is a perfect example. How is it that almost 100 people have commented on that.
when will common sense rule?....when the world as we know it does not exist....when we are in deep- s#it so then the finger pointing begins...blame a stranger, blame a friend....we where full of B.s to the end.
I am not blaming anyone. I am simply trying to pull the majority together so that we can make out perspectives known.
Pablum my friend, pablum. The masses were force fed it at first, grew to like then embrace it, and now have forgotten the taste of whole grain. Political Pablum, Cultural Pablum, Ethical Pablum.
Lets get a new diet.
Amen. Whole grain, high fiber, more flavorful
Yeah, it is a shame.
I'm basically a cheerleader here. Sorry that I can't participate in the near protest due to college work.
You can still participate in the process. Check out my site when you get a minute. Hopefully we can all find time in our busy schedules to help our country grow stronger.
trolls keep baiting people to come back and continue debating/arguing/flaming. That keeps their threads active.
Comments people agree with don't invite further debate/discussion. It's, "yeah. okay. nuff said".
trolls can use sock accounts to keep their threads at the top where more people can see them and respond.
about 3 hrs ago, I posted what i thought was a great article for discussion - a new article relevant to OWS and asking for comments. it's not showing up. Maybe it didn't make it past the moderators?
It posts without moderation. Don't know why it wouldn't be showing up.
don't worry, i found it a few minutes ago. my fault.
I like your sentiment and action, I'll check it out. There's a similar idea called 'Deliberative Democracy' that I think is quite promising too. Keep up the good work. I will say though that your frustration highlights one risk of direct democracy, simple majority rule could get pretty bad...heck, barely a decade ago the populace was banning gay marriage by vast majorities and no politicians or courts had the spine to speak up against it. As such, I agree with Yon about the importance of protecting minorities, the Constitution, and human rights. My gut feeling is that when all is said and done OWS really is about expanding the innate rights of people, however that manifests. People should come first, and as long as you lobby with that intention I support you fully.
It is not a direct democracy that I am supporting. What I am attempting to do is represent the interests of the majority to an indirect democracy. The direct democracy is not actually making the decision. It would be nice to have a seat at the table for a change though.
I think the trick is to get people more engaged in political discourse and to improve the civility of that discourse. If you can do that, then more common initiatives with popular support will emerge. The problem is we spend too much time shouting past each other. If there's one brilliant thing about the tea party it's how they got people to meet, to discuss, and to exchange ideas on a regular basis. I'm not sure that has been sustained, and it probably didn't include enough inter-dialogue, just a lot of reinforcing of personal views. If we can fix those problems, though, then we can really work toward a better political climate, on that could be a good engine and foundation for the kind of thing you are suggesting.
I think that increases in technology are providing a landscape where that is more possible than ever. People all over the country can meet online and discuss ideas. I am hoping that Lobby Democracy will not only help give people a voice, but also keep them informed of the issues, and give them the opportunity for a productive dialogue.
Yes, but the reasonable threads have higher QUALITY activity! Quality over quantity, after all.
Unfortunately, the nature of the beast though is that if you do not have quantity, you slide down the list to never be seen. You need the quantity for the quality discussion to continue,
Well, considering that the fluff threads are mostly either community troll hunts or things of little political significance like this thread... I don't think we have that much to worry about.
Remember, Kids: A mod stick or a ban hammer are the only effective weapons with which to abate an angry troll!
What are mod sticks and ban hammers?
They're metaphors for forum moderators' abilities to moderate threads and ban users, respectively.
Let us all come together on a local level. From region to region. It's time for the change. Our community based organization will serve as a map for our future economic structure.
Although I believe in the power of community based organizations, I think it is important that we remember what we are up against. We are up a machine of opposition. The businesses and special interests that are currently running the show on Capitol Hill are very well organized and are not going to take kindly to being usurped. We need to all pull together to gain the leverage to succeed.
Lobbyists, bahhh! Do not believe the DATA of the media polls. Yes, let us conduct our own polls. Keep in mind that media polls are part of the machine and they will feed any sort of data they need to beat us down. Turn off your televisions! Do not believe the media polls ever, they have manipulated us for far too long. They are not accurate and only serve the few. Let us find ways to generate our own polls independently!
That is exactly what I am talking about doing. The polling structure will be up in under 3 weeks. We have established a secure database to handle the polling data, and a member login structure to prevent repeat votes.
I've been to this undergroundish meeting about how we should stop Canadian oilsands from being developed, cause of environmental and other concerns. Greenpeace people were there, and others. About half-a-dozen presenters, about two dozen in the audience.
I left at first opportunity. These people don't realize that 1.3 million barrels extraction means a gross hundred million dollars a day. We can't stop it.
I think that we have become accustomed to losing to big business, but it is not actually a necessity. Our country has gone through many great changes over its history. It will take a serious effort to take the power away from the corporations that have become so accustomed to having it, but it is a goal that is achievable. If you look at many of the protests in the world they are facing much more difficult challenges than we are. They are fighting against leaders and structures that are officially designed to repress them. Out system has simply become bastardized.
"protests in the world they are facing much more difficult challenges than we are"
Maybe, because we don't really challenge anyone? Following up on my example - oilsands are like a militarized zone with armed guards. They won't give any chances to challenge them.
Btw, "Our country has gone through many great changes over its history." Independence & abolition. That's pretty much it, and it was long time ago.
The chance to challenge them is guaranteed by the constitution. The ability to win means taking the power away from the oil companies and putting it back into the hands of the people. This is our country and we the people are the ones who run it. We have left the process on autopilot for quite some time, and it is time we take the wheel again.
Constitution-shmostitution or $100,000,000/day (from just one big underdeveloped oil project)? Who wins?
They have the same rights in the same constitution, and they have Expensive Lawyers. They won't let the wheel go. They don't have problems with changing regimes abroad, when they feel threatened. What makes you think US is different?
They are the Borg. They assimilate peoples, societites, countries. They will retaliate if you touch them, but in any case, resistance is futile.
I am sorry you are so pessimistic about the situation. I do not underestimate the power of big business, but, I think you may underestimate the power of the American people. We have not expressed it. We have not made ourselves heard, and there is no one to blame on that one but ourselves.
If we stand up for our rights we have the power to restructure the system in a more equitable fashion.
Women's suffrage, civil rights movement, two world wars, surviving the cold war, the extension of voting rights to those who do not own land, the establishment of social security....
Excellent point, lobbying should be eliminated or limited, these are all issues that im sure could be addressed if this gets organized and localized, there are a lot of people who are less than satisfied with washington but who are not interested in crazy. There is a hsppy medium to be found here where power csn return to the public.
When you get a moment you should check out my site to see a little more about my solution. I think that it really has the possibility of overpowering the current lobbying structure in DC.
I will, thank you
Thank you Kulafarmer. I just wish that this site and the movement in general would start to coalesce around achievable goals.
I totally agree, especially since there are many people who dont fit into the upper 1% but who have a good understanding of our government and how it works and who dont do crazy! Have a good one
You as well.
It's a known fact in web developer land that controversial sites bring traffic.
Paypalsucks.com gets more traffic than Iheartpaypal.com would.
It's human nature.
I understand that, but it is a nature we should be fighting against. I understand that if this site were for entertainment value only the best threads would be the ones that started with "Lets burn down Washington" or "You stupid dirty hippies!" This site, however, should be for much more than just entertainment value. We have the opportunity to change the way the system works. I would think there would be some people on here that would be trying to pull together and get it done.
I agree, it needs a moderator, the site owner doesn't seem willing or able to do it except sporadically.
Although I understand the benefits of a moderator, I am not sure that would solve the problem. I am less concerned with the presence of outrageous threads than I am with peoples tendency to flock to them.
Known Trolls include: PlasmaStorm, FreeMarkets, trumpster, Vox559, libtard, marsdeflAnCe, MikeyD, oceanweed, ssst, ItsOnlyMe, Nobody33, monahan, sawata, ArrestAllCEOS, Freedumb.
Besides being inflammatory, trolls like to misrepresent themselves as participants in this movement, post false links to websites, and generally spread misinformation.
The Voxes - I saw like 5 of them with different numbers.
You mean one with five different numbers so he can bump his own garbage.
Yeah, but nothing can be done.
They're other forums with more productive conversations happening. www.themultitude.org, and www.occupyr.com. Its kinda a shame that this is the only one first contact-ers are able to find though.
The more forums - the more we split up. Do I post stuff at all of them (and my own http://ows.superunion.org)?
I think we should rather use one (though mis-managed) forum - this.
I hope that you will. I will attempt to continue here until it wastes too much of my time in unproductive conversation.
I am going to propose something. I'll make a new thread.