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Forum Post: Why I Rant

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 19, 2012, 6:12 p.m. EST by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I don't care if we end up with gun control or not. Gun Control is entirely beside the point. You think only crazy people commit mass murder? You may be right - but that does not change one simple fact: I could drive you batshit insane, all in three weeks or less. And what recourse would you have? None. All of your family, friends, and even employer would insist on mental health counseling - where you would find nothing but denial, and chemical restraint.

It makes me sick to watch the anti-gun lobby use this incident to reshape our society after their own image - and do so without one tear, not one, for the tens of thousands killed in the name of American Consumer Demand -

It makes me sick no one says shit about accidental engineering . . . .

  1. I'm ranting about this issue simply because the mentally ill generally don't go on crusade without some help.

  2. I'm ranting about this issue because if you look at the dsm iv you will see that there is not one single person on the planet who will escape labeling at their hands

  3. I'm ranting about this issue because no one is talking about analytical behaviorism and human engineering

  4. Because no one seems to give a shit about 50,000 to 100,000 human beings slain in Mexico since 2006, all in the name of american consumer demand - let alone the kids slain in the U.S. over sales territory

  5. I'm ranting about this because gun legislation will not stop instances of mass murder like this - for example - were I to contemplate mass murder without recourse to firearms all I need do is put the snow plow on, wait for the next marathon, identify a convenient bottleneck on the course, and have at it.

    • With a concerted effort I could probably top most previous mass murderers from among the U.S. civilian population with the exception of McV,. who used a bomb.

Committing mass murder isn't all that difficult to do, with or without a firearm.

Gun regs are nothing but a feel good measure. They don't address the problem.

The problem is that there are those in our society who find mass murder to be both utile and expedient - and they are both in possession of sufficient technology and in a position to employ that technology to make it happen.

.


.

In the shadow of silence cowardice breeds -

tears born of horror become a river of shame.

.

44 Comments

44 Comments


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[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

did I miss something? With all of the pro-gun advocates running around, not one of them has seem fit to pick up on any of the themes I've outlined?

Instead, they focus on such silly shit as Bloomberg?

and China?

What the Fuck

hypocrits and liars

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Every Rampage is progressively more lurid,more terrifying and-seemingly-more random.Every time,the victims are more vulneralble and innocent.It is like somebody is trying to probe the collective Mind of the American People to find that soft spot-what will it take? So now,Americans are in a total Panic and what kind of legislation can be crammed through will be crammed through.I don't think this time will be any different and the kind of legislation that will prepare the way for future Disarming of Civilians will not get done.So we need to brace ourselves for more of the same kind of attacks,because The Masters of the Universe appear to be in Panic Mode.I personally think they are behind the spectacular attacks and that the attacks are being accompanied by copycat attacks by independently crazy Troubled Loners.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21783) 1 year ago

Oh, you know.........it is more than just this incident. Much more. It's much more than the mass murders.

Assault weapons do not belong on the street. Guns should not be slipping out the back door of the manufacturers. The loopholes need to be closed all over the damn place.

See this shows that it is far more than mass murder. It's a circle. People throw a shit fit because the cops are militarized. They scream, they stomp and all kinds of shit. They do this because they aren't old enough or it didn't have any impact on them personally of the gang banging shit that went down in the 80s and 90s. If I wasn't so fuckin' disgusted than I would find it funny. You are old enough to remember this. It isn't about morality. Gun laws do not alter morality. That in and off itself is a mistake.

I am not happy with the mental health system in this country. I am not. If you think that anyone is going to put out a lot of money for a little mental health survey...........it ain't going to happen. They will McDonaldize that shit so quick it won't even be funny. Exactly like they do now. I got news for you though, there are a lot of people that are on the street because they can't function in society. They don't take their meds and nobody gives a damn until something goes wrong. Then they wind up in jail. Then they are found incompetent. Then they are back on the streets. So, it's about time someone started paying attention to this shit.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

A vast part of the reason cops are outgunned is the war on drugs, which provides the funding for criminals to join the arms race.

We have had decades to resolve the war on drugs - one must at this point conclude that we either lack the will, the resources, or it simply is not possible. Take your pick. No one seems to give a shit about the death toll in Mexico - let alone that much smaller number on Chicago streets.

Let something like this hit an upscale, yuppy middle class neighborhood and suddenly everyone seems to be paying attention. Yet socio-economics doesn't enter the discussion, let alone the negative potential posed by analytical behaviorism, and so no real solutions are presented.

Banning guns will only have a modest impact at best on the overall murder rate in this country.

.

and referring to the location of this latest incident as a yuppy neighborhood isn't meant . . . I mean . . . I'd give anything to see those kids and their six teachers returned home, happy and whole . . . just like I would for those kids from Oklahoma . . .

But you cannot, I cannot, it is history now. Soon to yellow and grow dusty. And all of us will most likely be reliving this horror yet again before the ink is even dry on whatever goddamned bill Congress chooses in it's infinite wisdom to pass, all in the spirit of bi-partisanship of course.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 1 year ago

The vast part of the reason cops are outgunned is because..........the other motherfuckers have them. You can get a gun for about 50 bucks. Easy.

That's right everybody is paying attention to the yuppy middleclass neighborhood. That is exactly what the NRA fucknuts want people to pay attention to. That way they can stand around and do nothing except continue to underfund local police departments and ATF and all of the social programs that are out there.

Point is-you and I both know about the death toll in Chicago and other areas. You and I both know the socioeconomic issues. It would seem beneficial if we stuck a big foot up everyone's ass to remind them. That modest impact that people like to talk about, they are underestimating. Those numbers were actually humans at one time.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I've never heard of a fully automatic weapon selling for $50 - but I don't have direct connections to the black market these days.

It is said: whoever saves a life saves the whole world

and so you are correct, if a gun ban will save a life, we have an obligation. Yet it remains utterly delusional to think this will prevent the next instance of mass madness and yet, as soon as a bill is passed, everyone will return home, content, as if they had done all that may be required - when the reality is we will have barely scratched the surface, done so in the name of these latest victims, some of whom gave their own lives in an effort to preserve life - to them we will leave a legacy that is little more than an utter disgrace.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21783) 1 year ago

It is fifty bucks more than what you had if you got it for "free" to begin with.

I don't think it will alter the next instance of mass madness unless you can factor in the amount of time it takes to kill x amount of people versus the capacity for police to respond as with James Holmes. You will definitely see that for all of the smaller dramas that are played every day across the nation that nobody wants to pay attention to or are so many that they are almost mind numbing. It might even more fuel to the fight to get more shit done.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Controlled chaos, with controlled solutions, with a controlled media.

How can they possibly lose?!

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Which provides no end of research grant resources to the fields of both complex systems and analytical behaviorists, not to mention the demand for processing power these fields of research require from IT.

20 kids and 6 teachers seem to be the clearest, if only the most recent, losers in this equation - and to a much lesser degree, each and every one of the rest of us.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

Snowplow?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Never seen one? I happen to have three. With the right angle and velocity it will open the average car on the U.S. highway with all of the ease of a can opener cutting into your favorite can of soup.

NBC just had a commentator on who acknowledged that over the last thirty years, mass murder rates remain relatively constant - and that with or without gun control; and that gun control will have a negligible effect at best, on the rate of mass murder in this country.

[-] 2 points by FawkesNews (1290) 1 year ago

I have seen a snowplow. Formidable to say the least.

More than 60 years since the inception of MK Ultra and a study of the last 30 years...?

Guns were once for kids....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtyZMRJbLq8

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

stop the presses the mainstream media has spoken!!! kneel before zod!

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

If you think gun control will reduce instances of mass murder in this nation you are insane.

[-] 4 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

don't make me laugh. of course a nationwide gun control program that criminalizes the possession of semiautomatic weapons will drive down the rate of mass murders. it did in australia, it did in england. and it did in our nation when we did the same for machine guns and short barrel rifles and shotguns.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

it did in australia

Really - so, tell me, bright boy, if gun legislation drove down the rate of mass murder in Australia, what, precisely, was the measure of mass murder in Australia prior to the ban?

On an annual or decadal basis, or per capita, take your pick. Who were the perpetrators, and how many died.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Well lets see. Milperra massacre - Two biker gangs, the Comanchero and the Bandidos, engaged in a shoot-out in a hotel car park, killing 7 people in 1984, including a bystander. Only one defendant was acquitted on the murder charges. Joseph Schwab - 1987, Schwab shot dead 5 people in and around the Kimberley region in Western Australia before being shot dead by police. [3] Hoddle Street massacre - Armed with two rifles and a shotgun, Julian Knight shot 7 people dead and wounded another 19 in 1987 before surrendering to authorities. Queen Street massacre - Armed with a sawn-off rifle, Frank Vitkovic roamed the Australia Post building killing 8 and wounding 5, also in 1987. When the weapon was finally wrestled from him, he committed suicide by jumping out of a nearby window. Surry Hills massacre - Paul Anthony Evers killed 5 people with a 12-gauge shotgun at a public housing precinct in Surry Hills in 1990 before surrendering to police. Strathfield massacre - In 1991 Wade Frankum killed 7 people and wounded 6 others with a large knife and an SKS before turning the gun on himself when he realised he could not escape. Central Coast Massacre - Malcolm Baker killed 6 people and injured another with a shotgun in 1992 before being arrested by police. Port Arthur massacre - In 1996, armed with two semi-automatic rifles, Martin Bryant killed 35 people around Port Arthur and wounded 21 before being caught by police the next day following an overnight siege.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

A complete list appears on Wiki here going all the way back to Feb. 10, 1828, includes the firebombing of the Whiskey Au Go Go on March 8, 1973 which killed 15, and ends with the Monash University shooting in 2002.

All of which suggests, despite the Australian study and the Reuters report, that in all probability there are several other factors at play beyond the mere prevalence of guns in society that help account for a decade without mass murder in Australia.

Cultural differences alone suggest that a simple ban on firearms will do little to reduce either mass or serial murder here in the U.S.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

well lets see no assault rifle attacks since 96 no handgun attacks since new legislation in 02. what don't you understand? so you think australia has less of an outlaw/gun toting history than the us?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I think it has a smaller, and more homogenous population, less competition among organized criminals than you see in the U.S. and quite possibly better control over behavioral researchers ensconced in their universities, just to name four likely significant differences.

I hate to point out the obvious, but the fact remains the Gatling Gun hadn't even been invented when several mass murders took place in Australia.

Go ahead. Ban all weapons. We'll still be having this conversation in two years, and the weapons ban will no longer be a factor.

  • McV

  • Ted K

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

bet those guys are your heros. 2 patriots right?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

wtf

they are now no more than graphiti on the wall, which either you cannot see or will not interpret.

EDIT

Perhaps I should have mentioned Jim J or Herb A. but then naturally you would have insisted they represented my spiritual idols and chief source of moral guidance and education

pfft

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

well who are your spiritual idols and what is your chief source of moral guidance and education?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

well aren't you nosy . . .

certainly no one with a fondness for Kool-aid or white sneakers and plastic bags . . . .

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Well lets see. Milperra massacre - Two biker gangs, the Comanchero and the Bandidos, engaged in a shoot-out in a hotel car park, killing 7 people in 1984, including a bystander. Joseph Schwab - 1987, Schwab shot dead 5 people in and around the Kimberley region in Western Australia before being shot dead by police. Hoddle Street massacre - Armed with two rifles and a shotgun, Julian Knight shot 7 people dead and wounded another 19 in 1987 before surrendering to authorities. Queen Street massacre - Armed with a sawn-off rifle, Frank Vitkovic roamed the Australia Post building killing 8 and wounding 5, also in 1987. When the weapon was finally wrestled from him, he committed suicide by jumping out of a nearby window. Surry Hills massacre - Paul Anthony Evers killed 5 people with a 12-gauge shotgun at a public housing precinct in Surry Hills in 1990 before surrendering to police. Strathfield massacre - In 1991 Wade Frankum killed 7 people and wounded 6 others with an SKS before turning the gun on himself when he realised he could not escape. Central Coast Massacre - Malcolm Baker killed 6 people and injured another with a shotgun in 1992 before being arrested by police. Port Arthur massacre - In 1996, armed with two semi-automatic rifles, Martin Bryant killed 35 people around Port Arthur and wounded 21 before being caught by police the next day following an overnight siege. Do any of those qualify as mass murder for you?

[-] 0 points by billybelch (10) 1 year ago

I can't believe I agree with you. Last time I talked to you about it you said you wanted the Clinton gun ban to come back.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Last time I spoke with you you must have been using a different alias. I haven't been online since you signed up - November 30, 2012. I've been busy, and haven't been online, until December 14, when I posted this.

I don't care if the Clinton era gun legislation is renewed. It won't stop mass murder.

[-] 1 points by RJHobbs (-58) 1 year ago

I'm gonna give you a "10" on this one, big dog.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I would say thanks - but I'm guessing you are a member of the pro-gun lobby - and when the fools showed up at protests with their guns this was my response

If I am correct, if in fact you are indeed a member of the pro-gun camp, then let me say thanks but

  • no thanks
[-] 0 points by billybelch (10) 1 year ago

You are pro-gun. You own a bunch, you told me so. Perhaps you are trying to get rid of them and it's taking you months.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

If I wanted to get rid of my glock it would be easy to do, they are fairly popular, and in the current climate there is more than sufficient demand. I don't oppose owning firearms - in fact, I'd like to own a whole case of them - M-16s and 10 gauge riot guns - I don't oppose owning fire arms. Not at all.

I just oppose your owning firearms - because most likely you are either too stupid or too lazy to keep yours under lock and key when you aren't around to make use of them.

I oppose hysterical NRA FREAKS like John Bolton who seem to depend upon the angry ol' white man syndrome to foster support for whatever nonsense they care to endorse. I oppose fools who go to protests with their firearms, as I clearly indicated here because it makes no sense, and is likely to have an entirely predictable outcome -

mass slaughter in the name of rage and hysteria.

I think your coffee is done. In fact, I think it's stuck to the inside of the pot -

  • billy belch.
[-] -1 points by RJHobbs (-58) 1 year ago

Sorry Dog, not a member.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

my mistake.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1278) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Ever wonder why politicians don't simply ask people in law enforcement and the military what they recommend in regards to civilian gun-ownership? The answer is simple. Politicians are too stoopid to simply ask.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20556) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago
[-] -2 points by town (-374) 1 year ago

military people were not allowed to carry guns on a military base( ft hood), if they were armed they could have stopped hassan. the US govt refers to this massacre as " workplace violence"

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1278) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

It was workplace violence. I think people who come up with legislation should ask the recommendation of people that are expected to enforce it. What special insight do politicians and civilians have on the issue of what should be legal as far as guns? I don't know anything about guns, do you?

[-] -1 points by town (-374) 1 year ago

nidal hasan is a terrorist. his business card had SOA ( soldiers of allah ) on it. He shouted allahu akbar before murdering 13 people . i know enough about guns to know that when seconds count the police are just minutes away.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1278) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Go argue with the dem-bots here. I'm not going to waste my time talking to you.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1278) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

He's crazy. What difference does it make what he shouted?

[-] 0 points by town (-374) 1 year ago

im not a doctor so i couldnt say if he ws crazy or not. shouting the muslim cry of allahu akbar before opening fire does make him a muslim terroritst. the reason the govt called this " workplace violence" was obscure the terrorist charge.

[-] 0 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 1 year ago

The only one's who should have weapons are those that are in charge.They know what is best for us.

[-] -1 points by town (-374) 1 year ago

you really cant believe that, it must be sarcasm.