Forum Post: Why Health insurance IS a scam, and how you're being scammed
Posted 11 years ago on Nov. 28, 2011, 4:51 p.m. EST by Jackofhearts
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Does anyone see the logic in this?
It's only 46 seconds but powerful points.
I worked in the Medical field for years dealing with health insurance carriers and I remember when HMO's were just getting started. I could see what their intention was and that was to dictate how physicians treated you. The doctors at that time thought I was nuts and that it never would happen. Well guess what it did!
The media always want to place the blame on Healthcare costs which couldn't be farther from the truth. Health insurance never pays 100% of what is charged and to have a contract with them they provide a fee schedule of what they will pay for and how much.
Medicare traditionally approves less then half of the bill and other insurance companies pay basically the same as Medicare or alittle above it.
As the years go by the insurance keeps on raising premiums while reducing fee schedule amounts paid and approved. The providers which are the doctors, hospitals, etc write off all but the patients portion of the bill.
It is a scam and we don't require the middleman anymore especially now that it is mandatory to pay for health insurance. Since we have to accept this we should demand a single payor and also demand that restructuring of how medical services are provided to reduce cost.
in the "free market" healthcare system doctors, surgeons and pharmaceutical companies make money by selling you tests and treatments whether you need them or not. Insurance companies make money by taking your premiums and denying you care when you really do need it. There is no one in the free market system who is motivated by keeping you healthy. America spends twice as much as other developed nations on healthcare but politicians will tell you we can't afford national healthcare, How can we "not afford" to spend 1/2 as much on care as we do now?
Your right, the system is sick!
I treat patients with Medicaid/VA benefits, private insurance, and who are self-pay and without a doubt the government run programs are by far the most inefficient and wasteful AND controlling of the patient-doctor relationship. It is not even close. Granted I am a dentist but I would imagine things are even worse for physicians because a higher percentage of their revenue is from the government usually.
That's not what I've heard from medical doctors. You want to hear my list of hard working people who spent years paying into the medical insurance system who were dumped when they had cancer? Some of them even had the misfortune to live the face the bills.
What you say is basically correct, but I think you missed his point. No matter what people pay in, you can't get that much in services out. That's why Obama care has a mandate. You need healthy people paying in that don't get sick in order to pay for the few that do get seriously ill.
You're right too about the middle men, but unless everyone pays their own way they will always be there. Government care just gives them different titles.
They already have a high percentage of healthy people that have coverage through their employer that seldom ever go to the doctor.
The insurance companies used to have a capitated plan for providers and when I worked for a family practice we would get the list of people that chose our doctors as their primary care physician. The number of people that actually made an appointment with us compared to the numbers that didn't need to were far less.
The insurance company however, was collecting premiums every month from the large percentage that didn't need see us. Plus they gave incentives to the doctors that reduced the numbers they didn't send out for tests. The insurance company and the providers of service really don't care about your health unless they are making money off of you.
True, it's a business. They provide a service and as a percentage the profit is small. I worked on a committee that bought insurance for a group of about 900 people. One cancer case put our group in the loss column for the insurance company that year. They have the capitol though to weather major health disasters like that, our group wouldn't be able to self insure.
That is a problem right there in that they based it on 900 people contributed into the pool when it should be all the insured through the insurance company itself so a cancer case would not result in this story.
We actually were, it's just one of those rare times when I got to see actual numbers for what our group put in vs what the insurance company paid out that year. It also ended any talk of self insuring, knowing one event can bankrupt a small group.
That is unethical on the insurance company's part putting your company in a situation where they must pray that no employee gets cancer. This is not in your control or the employee and all businesses should not ever accept those conditions from an insurance company. For an insurance company to be in business they have to come up with 0ne million dollars or more now to open their doors for business. This is for catastrophic emergencies so they are able to pay on claims. What they have done in your case and probably every other business is they are making every business based on number of employees what they will or won't cover that doesn't interfere with how much profit they will make off of each business that obtains their coverage. Businesses should have been fighting this from the beginning and not allow them to dictate the guidelines.
I totally agree with all you say Barb. I choose not to have health insurance for many reasons but it occurred to me one day while considering it during open enrollment, that if my husband and I went on his company's policy that we would end up paying a lot more than others- relative to our family size and lifestyle- because we don't have children and we don't go to the doctor ( knock on wood) except maybe once every ten years or so. I'm not suggesting that they charge us more than other employees but I think it's unfair to charge us as much as folks who have children/larger families and who have a history of frequent visits. My husband and I also don't use pharma medications unless it's absolutely necessary- again very rare for us to do so. More and more folks are realizing that insurance promotes disease ( in a round about way) and are choosing lifestyle changes, exercise, and dietary means of being healthy. They are also using natural medicines which of course big pharma is attempting to discredit while all the while developing their own synthetic versions of natural medicines. BTW, it's those synthetic vitamins and minerals that ARE bad for your health- NOT the whole food nutrients. So everyone dump your daily Centrum and find a high quality whole food nutrient brand to supplement with. Barb, are you a member of ANH ( Alliance of natural health)? If not, check out their website and join their email list..they are a wonderful group of health freedom activists: http://www.anh-usa.org/
I don't trust pharm meds either except with antibiotics which I use if I absolutely have no other alternative. I am concerned over the excessive antibiotic use in our food animals and I am also concerned that our fruits and vegetables are not as good as they used to be when I was growing up.
I also try to be more health conscious and I am now 50. I do not take any RX drugs so far and I have not had to see a doctor in a long time.
Thanks for the referral to ANH.
Barb, I'm 50 too. Isn't it great? hahahahha ANH is a wonderful group. I started with them when they were only based in the UK but then they created the USA site. Food is to us like gas is to an auto and so yes, we should be very concerned about food quality. Our food doesn't contain the nutrients that we need unless we can purchase locally grown organic foods. I really try to eat fresh, raw or minimally processed/cooked foods. I drink fresh organic veggie and fruit smoothies twice a day. Sometimes I feel like it's our age group that suffers the decline of this earth worse than others because we've seen it decline at a much much faster rate. I don't take any antibiotics unless I would have a life threatening infection and even then, I won't use any ' new and improved' nuclear powered variety. I use aged garlic ( Kyolic), oreganol, vit C and or red onions anytime I feel like I have an allergy or cold coming on. I remember many moons ago my microbiology prof said, ' antibiotics are some of the most dangerous drugs in the world and they will lead to human demise'. She was correct. I won't even be around anyone who is taking a course of antibiotics because they are often carriers of a mutant strain of resistant bacteria. Given that we consume enough antibiotics from our environment ( water for example), I truly believe that there is a much higher risk of developing a resistant strain while taking a course of antibiotics. Most people are unaware that antibiotics don't cure anyone from anything- all they do is prevent a more serious or secondary infection from occurring- at least that's what they were intended to do even though they are not nearly as effective anymore. With the overprescribed broad spectrums, we end up with a host of all sorts of additional side effects ranging from resistance to neurological damage to death.Times have changed and this isn't the same world it was 30 years ago. Keeping our immune system in tip top working order is the key to preventing and healing from any disease- even cancer. When you and I were young and our doctor suspected strep or other bacterial infection, they would perform a throat culture to identify the strain. However, today, they don't culture anything prior to prescribing. This is yet another reason I don't have insurance- insurance will probably NOT pay for a culture to be done in a Gen Pract. office. Oh and pap smears? Don't even get me started! Those factory mill laboratories should be abolished.
Gillian, I agree with you 100% and I research science on a daily basis to keep up with any new information about genetics and my favorite is microbiology. What I have learned is that science is playing with fire with the concept of using microbes for energy, food, etc. and to me this is dangerous. If they allow these microbes to expand their populations over what is normal environmental restraints we are asking for big trouble and catastrophic consequences will most likely occur when science begins this new technology all over the globe. They are opening Pandora's Box playing with microbes.
Yes it is dangerous - at least in my opinion and yours. I find it astonishing that anyone today could be ignorant about these and other issues given the ability to quickly research almost anything. My own brother asked me last year what organic meant and he has two children. He gives his children tons of aspartame, processed foods, etc.. and then wonders why they are sick all the time. Do you ever visit the Linus Pauling Institute website? They have tons of information on there.
I'm sorry I'm only mentioning bits of the story instead of going into it in full detail, we were considering self insuring and managed to get the actual numbers for a year. We realized those catastrophic emergencies could break us, we needed the bigger pool offered by the insurance company.
So by self insuring you thought you could reduce the company's cost. I'm curious of what those actual numbers that were given to you and if they actually reflected reality.
It was a long time ago, it was for us simply premiums paid vs money paid out. It would have been necessary also to hire at least one person just to do the paperwork had we done it ourself.
Wait until Obamacare kicks in then you are going to wish you had healthcare
The argument for or against having universal healthcare avoids the real issue - the QUALITY of healthcare in the US. Given that we are the most unhealthy country in the industrialized world, it's obvious that our system is geared toward profit, not health and well being. I could afford healthcare but choose NOT to have it for a few reasons - one of them being that I don't want to pay for something that doesn't benefit me and ironically, is bad for my health. Medicine should never be practiced with one size fits all philosophy and yet that's exactly how they practice. Insurance dictates how doctors practice, what medicines to use, how much treatment someone will receive, etc... I'm not opposed at all to universal healthcare mainly because the way I see it is that if I'm going to be forced to buy something that I don't approve of, then I'd rather pay 40 dollars a month into a universal healthcare system than 1,000.00 dollars a month for a system that is going to make me unhealthy and perhaps even kill me. For more info about the healthcare industry read Wendell Potter's book, " Deadly Spin".
I already know I am being scammed. They have managed to turn seeking any form of treatment into a nightmare. They don't pay on time. They serve no purpose.
That sucks. I don't think I'll get one now really.
I'm not too familiar with insurances and can't say if they are scams or not, but most people I know who does have insurances seems fine and happy. It might also depend on what insurance you have. I found this and I think it might be helpful: http://www.cheapinsurance123.com/health/cheap-health-insurance-misconceptions.html
That's a good article but I don't think I'll go for insurances.
Unaired Fox News Interview with "Occupy Wall Street" Protestor
It is also very important to realize why the government is making it mandatory right now and that is because with so many jobs leaving this country or have already left there are many people who are not covered under an employer's healthplan any longer.
The burden falls to the State AHCCCS program and they do not want that liability. The bottom line is more jobs available means no mandatory healthcare coverage on the individuals.
This is the absolute truth and that is the healthcare insurance companies are ripping off the medical care providers and they are ripping off the businesses that pay for coverage for their employees.
The insurance companies are taking this money and are gambling with it and God knows what else. We have reached a point in time that a one payor system would not be any worst then the multiple payor system we have now.
By the time we do get a one payor system, I hope people will have learned a great deal from this system so the same corruption does occur again in a one payor system.
The system is certainly broken, but everyone needs insurance. Not for the small stuff, but for the catastrophic stuff. Very few people could ever save enough money to cover the costs for something like cancer, kidney failure or some rare illness.
The only healthcare that should be universal should be for catastrophic care, the big stuff. This would end the economic uncertainty that catastrophic illness brings.
The fact that the system doesn't focus on catastrophic care but on the little nitty gritty preventive care, office visits, etc. is where the insurance companies make the big money. That is the scam.
Health insurance is not really insurance. My car is better insured than I am.
My insurance cost $97 a month with a $5000 deductible.I also have a HSA which is up to 17k now.
What does the 97 dollars cover? Seems to me that you're better off putting that 97 dollars into a money market savings account. You already have a 5 thousand deductible so you're basically wasting your money. Seriously. Think about this.......let's say you need to see a doctor for the flu this month...at the most it will probably cost you 200 dollars for the visit and the meds. But how often do you get the flu in one year? If anything serious were to happen to you, you can go directly to the emergency room via an ambulance ( ambulance is the key) and you'll get admitted right in and THEN they will allow you to make payments. A friend of mine had breast cancer and she was uninsured and she was treated just the same as you or I and she makes 50 dollar payments per month for her treatments. That's less than you pay a month. She had varicose vein surgery last year and again, makes small monthly payments.
Maybe you should keep the HSA or put that money into some type of interest bearing account ( credit union or other) and drop the other insurance.
Car insurance doesn't cover oil changes, new tires, etc. WHAT A SCAM! Are you a moron or what? Insurance is insurance. You WILL pay all the costs one way or another. It's not buying dollars with dimes. If you didn't read the policy then it's your own damn fault for being stupid.
I think the guy in the video does have a point but at times I wanna be sure that I am safe and have a safety net. But after reading the other comments, I'm not too sure now.
World health Organization rates quality of US medical low compared to other industrialized nations, while being the most expensive. Retail cost of medicine is ridiculous, but the insurance companies only really have to pay a fraction of it. However, the cost of medical insurance is based on the retail price. Uninsured individual is billed retail, without mercy. system is exclusive, and many people are suffering and dying. A "crime against humanity", while medical insurance companies making fortune.
We pay less for meds without insurance than we did with it. How do we start a not for profit insurance company?
Most Insurance is complete theft backed the by the govt.
suppose back in the day, a bunch of shippers started an insurance pool because once in a while, pirates would steal the products from a ship, and the insurance pool would pay for it. Now suppose an insurance administrator was hired to take care of the money.
Suppose one year there were no pirated ships and then the insurance administrator ran off with the money claiming it was "earned premium"? What would happen? The insurance administrator would be in jail or be hung.
Insurance, by nature, MUST be a NON-profit industry.
The ceos and administrators can still earn good salaries, but they have no right to any of the extra money left over at the end of the year. If car accidents are low one year, the money should go back to the people.
Insurance, Car and Health, is probably the single BIGGEST scam the government supports. Imagine having $100/month for every car in the USA????
And if there not many claims, the insurance company gets to keep it? Insanity - complete and utter brainwashed insanity -
Socialized medicine works VERY well in France - I know - I have relatives there, and it works well.
For profit medicine per procedure doesn't work very well either, it just creates more procedures than necessary, 10x or more.... maybe 100x. BTW - I hardly EVER take pills, hardly EVERY go to the Doctor. Maybe anti-biotics once every three or four years for something. So many old people visit the doctor every week like they need a psychiatrist, or maybe they are lonely.
Excellent points Joe. I'm like you, rarely see a doctor. I haven't been sick once in over 5 years but I don't have insurance. I choose NOT to have it and gave it up in 2001. Doctors will often tell their patients that they need insurance but it's only because doctors cannot make as much profit with non-insured patients...they can't inflate prices and they don't get the kickbacks and other perks for agreeing to work within the confines of the corporate controlled health industry. Socialized medicine works really well. I have family and friends in Australia and Wales and it works quite well and very efficient - not to mention that they get a better quality of care as well. Ok, so get this: When I cancelled my health insurance with cigna, I saved 570.00 a month for the last 10 years and put it into a money market savings account that now earns a pittance amount, but even so, I've managed to turn 68,400 dollars into more than 70,000 dollars and that's with paying for dental cleanings, 3 crowns. Ironically, after getting rid of my health insurance, I have not been sick. I think it's because my husband and I decided to take care ourselves by eating well and using only natural remedies. We have a board certified Integrative doctor but most of what he does for us is teach us how to be healthy- something that insurance won't pay for. When we had insurance, we felt inclined to visit the doctor every month for every petty thing that ailed us because we felt the need to ' get our money's worth' and as you stated, that just made us sick because the medicines they gave us were dangerous and caused side effects and other health problems. The problem with the US healthcare is that it's designed for profit with no concern for outcomes. I am livid that Obama expects me to purchase something that I don't want. I also think that it's very unfair to punish someone like me who actively tries to take care of myself by eating safer/organic foods, uses whole food vitamins and minerals, exercises, and doesn't eat out in restaurants. I pay more for my food and vitamins and more to my doctor for checkups once or twice a year but it's still thousands of dollars less than what I would pay for insurance. People like me are not running up the healthcare tab in this country by relying on my doctor to fix everything I screw up--- which leads to less quality and higher prices.
I am a dentist and I actually make less money treating patients with insurance because I have an agreed upon rate, always lower, with the insurance company. My self-pay patients pay the normal price.
That may be true depending on the insurance provider and how they are always attempting to increase their own profits ( and it's only going to get worse with or without Obamacare). However, you also receive a LOT of extravagant bonuses/perks from those corporate entities that more than makes up for those ' losses'. I'm well aware of the overhead that doctors incur as well as the cost of education, insurance, etc..But, the truth is the schools inflate the cost of medical education compared to other degrees and the suppliers inflate the cost of their goods too because they all have a cozy alliance with one another that is designed to control you. The short of it is that despite the overhead and other costs, they control you by providing avenues of additional income ( some of it ridiculously high) when you decide to join them and play by their rules. I've had different experiences with doctors. My dentist actually cuts me a LOT of slack because I'm uninsured. He made my TMJ mouthpiece for free ( I use it to play my violin) and allows me to make installments on other work or he'll barter with me. On the other hand, I've known doctors who will literally gouge their uninsured patients and they also frown upon the uninsured and don't provide the same level of care to them as they do their insured patients ( which isn't always the best care anyhoo). Maybe it's because they feel guilty for charging them and not being able to ' work' the system with all those unnecessary treatments, medications, referrals to specialists, etc.. In any event, the INDUSTRY wreaks of corruption and Medicine should have NEVER become an industry to begin with. I went to med school in 1983, had been working in Pathology for 3 years prior to that ( during college) and I dropped out my first year on the advice of my mentor who said, ' GET OUT NOW!! The system is becoming nothing more than a machine of red tape and greed that will crush your passion and you'll end up hating yourself and your work or you will get fired for being the doctor that I know you want to be". He told me to pursue engineering but after a long torturous spiritual battle, I decided to leave and chose environmental toxicology ( yet another corrupt science). For many years I felt that I had betrayed myself by by abandoning my passion and even today I wish that I were in Lambarene helping those who truly appreciate and need medical care. BUT, I am so glad that I am not a member of the AMA or a participant in the current system because truly, I know that I could not live with myself. One of my dear friends who is a veterinarian walked off her job a year ago and went back to school to become a CPA. She told me that she could not sleep at night due to the stress of being forced to comply with unethical medical practice being imposed on her by the gov't/corporations. IF I were a doctor today, I would definitely not be working in the USA and I would probably be a penniless doctor in any event. I never wanted to be wealthy, I just wanted to be a teacher and healer to my patients.
God , I wish more people had your attitude, the world would be a far better place then it is today. I can relate and have experienced similar circumstances and I don't honestly understand how so many people can be so heartless.
Well Barb, as heartless as the world may seem, there are a LOT of ' us' out here who want to make a sincere difference and who haven't lost their passion. I find other ways to contribute to humanity even though it's not a lucrative profession and that's how I continue to fuel my heart. The problem is greed but " greed" has many faces. I believe that most folks begin their lives and careers wanting to fulfill a meaningful purpose but then they end up doing bad things. It's just all too easy to end up becoming greedy because we are literally conditioned by our employers, corporate policies, the corporate environment, media, the American lifestyle, our government, schools and of course, our egos to be competitive, aggressive and big time consumers. For some bizarre reason, I was the only member of my nuclear family who was born a genetically-forced humanitarian, social justice activist and scientist. The other members of my family are bankers, real estate shysters, business owners and essentially, greedy narcissistic and pretentious. They call me a ' free spirited tree hugger'. hahahahha But, Barb, can you imagine me having to live with a family like that for 17 years? I truly have nothing in common with them..not a thang...nada. I remember once telling them that I was leaving town to do field work and my brother said, " I didn't know you had a tractor". hahahahha At one point in my career I worked as a Taxonomist and my family told everyone that I was a taxidermist ( stuffing dead animals). They shop at Walmart at least once a week, buy their small children every over-priced techie toy and choose to ignore the implications of their choices on anyone else or the world. I don't really have much to do with them anymore but I did offer them a burial discount at my Taxidermy lab. hahahahha
I can certainly empathize with your fear of dentists. I fear the doctors too- actually MORE than dentists. You just need to find a compassionate dentist who doesn't have a waiting room that resembles the lobby of the Waldorf astoria. Do you have a dental school near you? They actually do excellent work at a very discounted price. Depending on where you are in AZ, you might want to look into the AZ Center for Integrative Medicine and if they don't provide dentistry, I believe they can recommend someone. Another doctor that I recommend is Dr. Colleen Huber, NMD who I believe is in Tempeh.
I have the same problem in my family where I am more like you and my siblings are selfish and power motivated in their careers.
Thank you for your information on where to find a good dentist.
I agree with a lot of what you say but I have not really experienced a lot of it first hand. Dentists have been fortunate in that they have been able to maintain a lot of their autonomy compared to physicians. I think one of the main reasons is that the ADA holds a bit more power than the AMA because a much higher percentage of dentists are members of the ADA than physicians in the AMA. I can't spreak for the AMA obviously, but I feel like the ADA does a great job allowing us (and our patients) to maintain our autonomy, at least for now.
As a dentist, at least in my region (New England), insurance companies do not really dictate my treatment choices. My patient and I will develop a treatment plan that we feel is appropriate and then the front desk works with them and their insurance if they have it to figure out what will be covered and what is not. To be honest, when I see a patient I usually don't even know anything about their insurance or if they even have it. If they need to pay out of pocket we offer CareCredit which is basically free financing as long as they pay it off in 1 year, or we can come up with a new treatment plan. Or if they just pay in full I give a 5% discount. A lot of dentists I know do not accept any insurance payments whatsoever. Their patients pay the fees and then it is their responsibility to get reimbursed by the insurance company.
Like I said, I can't speak for physicians but I have no regrets about my career choice. At work I am happy, my patients are happy, my staff is happy, and I make a good living for myself. That being said, I would never want to be a physician, for many of the reasons you explain above.
I have had so many nightmares with Dentists here in Az that unfortunately I do not trust them and they charge so much for their services that you have to be wealthy to obtain services as you age.
It is interesting how dentists seem to have more freedom to practice isn't it? My dentist says the same thing and he's been such a god-send. He's one of the funniest most compassionate humans I know despite stats that say that dentists have a high suicide rate :D I do take issue though with some of what the dentists still do and believe. For example, my physician has told me many times to have my mercury fillings removed and my dentist groans when I mention this. I also asked him if my teeth are at further risk since I do not use a fluoride toothpaste and here's his answer, ' Well, you're not swallowing it are you?" So, am I to assume that it's safe to gargle with xylene as long as I don't swallow it? hahahahha I hate to clutter up this forum with my dental issues but I really would be interested in hearing your thoughts about some dental issues I'm having that may be related to a host of things including TMJ disorder, fiddle playing, hormones or lack of, and a maryland bridge installed. My bite is SO terribly off that I'm clanking my back molars together and I fear damaging them. Before I got my mouthpiece, I was wedging a baby carrot between my molars. I finally got some valium yesterday to try and calm the muscles but I hate hate hate relying on meds. I feel as though this bridge has truly screwed up my mouth. Anyhoo, if you're interested in sharing, please contact me via private message. If not, I understand. Oh, and my dentist is the ONLY doctor that I know who will NOT charge his patients for a re-do of anything that he does that fails. He did an apico on one of my roots and it failed and he gave me the option of bridge or another apico. In hindsight I should have tried the apico again but I opted for the bridge. Doctors on the other hand rarely if ever offer a refund for anything they do that harms anyone or fails. Are you using Cerec technology to create your crowns? Very cool! But I believe that the adhesive is causing a lot of folks to have some discomfort/sensitivity. Are you noticing this?
My uncle, a dentist, once asked me: "Do you know what kind of people take pills?" I said, "No, what kind of people?" He said: "Sick people take pills. If you don't want to be sick, don't take pills."
I thought it was hilarious. But it's true!
Obama's plan is illegal - it will never hold up. You can't make people spend their money. It's ridiculous. Even the unscrupulous courts won't back this one.
Emergency medicine is one thing.... but for common diseases and ailments, there is nothing better than love, nutrition, and exercise. And maybe a joint or a glass of wine if you really need to relax. That's all anyone needs. Everything we need is already here in nature.
So true, so true..hahahah Joe, I don't believe that Obama care would be considered too radical and oppressive in comparison to so much of what goes on in our society today. The Patriot Act instituted and unleashed all sorts of corp abuse, including abusive medical care. Obamacare is really just insurance reform designed to ensure big profits for big biomedical and insurance corps. He did give them 3 or 4 years to skillfully craft their plan to protect their big profit margins until then and they've already begun increasing rates, reducing coverage, etc.. Obamacare is just another oppression to deal with. I'm forced every day to pay for things that I don't want to...cable tv for example. I hate it, don't want it. I just wanted to be able to watch basic tv for weather and news since I live in hurricane country. But, now I'm forced to pay 20 dollars a month for minimal cable. My credit card companies have forced me to use my cards once a month or they will close the accounts. If I pay off the balance each month, they close the accounts. I've lost 2 cards just this year for that reason. Every day I feel the weight of more and more oppression and I truly hate it. It really ticks me off when TV financial gurus tell us to get out of debt because the truth is that they want us to be in debt. It's our debt that keeps the economy doing as well as it does. I try to do the right thing, the responsible thing every single durn day and I still get shafted by some crony corp.
I own no car, I own NO credit card, just a debit card, I pay no insurance.... and we have had NO TV for 10 years, since the Internet started getting big. I do have a bicycle though. But obama's plan is un-enforceable, people will just not pay. But I agree, we all pay things we don't want to. i do drive, but I borrow others cars, so I do pay for gas, when I am not in NYC.
We are all in the same boat.... argh!!!!
You're probably much younger than I am ( I'm almost 51) but I was thinking the other day how when I was a young girl my family would get so excited over purchasing something new like a car or a TV or stereo or even small things like a toaster. We lived a simple life but were happy because we knew that our hard earned money was going toward a quality item/investment that would last and provide pleasure, joy and perhaps ease of life. But, today I hate purchasing anything whether it's food, cars, toasters, light bulbs because I know that anything factory made that I purchase is junk. I have one light in my kitchen that has been burning bright since 1988...I'm not kidding! But, when that goes..I'll be buying one every six months or more often. Until 3 years ago, I was using my GE washing machine from 1984. It worked great, no problems. But, I had some extra cash and decided to upgrade to a larger size. Since then, I have purchased 3 washers!!! All of them JUNK. I would give anything to have my old washer back. I drive a 2000 model Honda and will continue to drive it until the roof caves in because I figure it's better than anything new that I could buy today. I try to purchase things that are built by real folks...pottery, recycled glass etc...and I prefer that the money I spend gives back in some way. I bought my drinking glasses from a homeless shelter that makes them. :D
As far as obama care.....hmmm I believe that a penalty WILL be enforced for those who don't pay. My husband works for a large tree corporation and they told him yesterday that he would have to sign a note stating that he declined their insurance benefits. This is the FIRST step in rounding up the non conformists and preparing to enforce those penalties. My husband is dodging the admin as best he can to avoid signing that release. But, you can bet that his company is being paid some type of kickback for monitoring the uninsured. Americans have been gladly paying income taxes even though those taxes are unconstitutional. Ever seen the documentary http://freedomtofascism.com/ ? If not, you can view it in full on this website via youtube. Some friends of mine are in that doc..they own a deli. Check out what happened to them one Easter morning a few years ago.
I remember in HS how my government teacher was fired for teaching us about communism and how the word, ' propaganda' was used in almost every sentence. The very thing that I was brainwashed to believe only existed in other countries IS America. Freedom is just another democratic term for consumerism. We've got all the freedom we could ever want or need to buy just about anything don't we? But, that's about all the freedom we have anymore. How truly sad to know how easily I was betrayed.
i am actually only a year younger. but thanks, it's always nice to get carded at our ages! HAHAHA!
BTW - i am a stout rebel when it comes to HAHAHAHA vs "LOL". I never use LOL, and always use HAHAHAHA -
The only freedom we don't have is transport. In cities like NYC you can get around without paying "the corporations" every single time you go out. that hurst a lot of people.
In suburbia EVERY SINGLE time you go see a friend, go shopping, work out, WHATEVER - usually you are driving - and that means paying some money to GW Bush and the energy people EVERY TIME YOU MOVE AROUND. and if you are broke for the week -guess what? you staying home! it ain't like that in NYC, but it is in most other places around the US.
I just figured you were a cool young buck! :D You're right about the transport in NYC. I have friends who sold their cars when they moved there but mainly because it would cost them a bundle to park it. Interesting....last night on my local news they announced that the buses were going to change their routes. Of course they stated that this was to increase efficiency and service the busier areas but that is a bunch of malarkey. One would think that the greedy transport company would have already worked ' serving the highest demand areas' into their original business plan????? Public transport is very very limited here so this is going to be a super blow to many folks who rely on it. Most of those folks are lower class ethnic folks and now the bus will serve the more elite. Interesting, eh? And they thought we wouldn't notice. Shame on them.
I thought LOL meant Lots of Love until a few years ago when I was chatting with a male friend who kept putting LOL after some of my comments and I thought he was becoming obsessively in love with me....hahahahha I never use it. I don't know all the techie slang that youngins use today and frankly, don't want to since the King's English has been abbreviated quite enough.
We don't have as many freedoms as people want to believe. Everything we "own" basically belongs to our government or any other authority that wants to take it from us. Land? Houses? Cars? Water pipe running to our property? It's not ours, it's theirs but we just pay for their property and maintain it for them too. If you are not using cash to make purchases, then every single thing you are purchasing is being documented, stored in a data base and the info sold to corps. However, the cash that you received ALSO left a trail as well. We are not free to roam, free to eat, free to do anything.....freedom is an illusion that has been masterfully orchestrated by our government only to generate revenue and one of the ways they do this is by keeping us so damn busy with life that we don't notice, have time to question anything or do anything about the injustices we are forced to live with. Most folks are too busy today to even notice if one of their children are missing. I may sound like some paranoid cave dweller but I am not...I'm just aware and am always choosing the least intrusive method of consumerism, etc.. which includes NOT visiting the conventional doctor who works for some health management corp. LOL , friends 4 ever :D
I am a cool young buck! most people think I am in my late thirties or forties. In shape, still play hoops, soccer, bike, rollerblade, snowboard, scuba dive, dance, etc. And thanks for the thoughts - you are right, I always tell the young - either rent or purchase your house - mortgages are the worst of both. Pay cash or wait and save the money. You are right! But it's so hard to tell the young what we have learned over the years. It's hard for them to trust our experience and knowledge - friends forever - I like that!
You hula hoop too? hahahahha Don't you remember when folks signed our yearbooks with Friends 4 ever? Everyone thought it was just too cool to use that number in there..:D It's my friends in Australia- my brilliant friends who are Econ savvy that warned me way back in 01 not to buy a home, not to trust GWB and his Peter Pan promises. They warned me about every single thing that has occurred and I listened to them THANK GOD! But, IF they could see that GWB was driving us over a cliff, then why couldn't the people in this country? Did you know that after 9-11, GWB ( who owed a lot to Lily and Pfeizer) mandated that he wanted at least 250,000 americans prescribed SSRI/antidepressants by the end of December that year? Then he medicated our military into complacency so that they would tolerate many tours- the Marines being the guinea pigs for ecstasy study. One of the ' jobs' of homeland security is to medicate all persons who have been exposed to any sort of trauma- natural disasters, school shootings, friends of kids who died in schools, etc... The one way to control a population is to drug them and it worked until the OWSers decided to do something for us. I'm really impressed with how much these youngsters /OWSers are aware of what's wrong in this country. I thought they would be conditioned to accept the status quo more than we would but hey, it's just THAT bad that even those who have lived the majority of their lives under fascist rule know better. Cheers for the awakened!
So true about the antidepressants - I worked in Medical care and I swear everyone that filled out their past medical histories stated that they were on antidepressants.
i didnt know about that drug-military stuff... wow....
It's about time that simple truth was realized. Nothing is free. Insurance was a method of sharing risk, you're paying into it in the event that something serious happens. That's why the rates have to go up when government steps in and says take everyone or cover more conditions.
The poor boy on the video looks a little puzzled by the way the world operates. Fear of expensive treatments, cancer and major trauma, is what has always driven people to buy it. It doesn't matter who pays, private insurance, or the government, all pay for the few, most don't get their money back. In fact the administration of the whole mess simply adds to the cost and doesn't treat any illness at all.
Nothing is free. Right, but I would rather pay 40 dollars a month into a universal healthcare system than several hundred dollars a month into a corrupt, over inflated, wasteful, for profit medical system that is based on flawed industry-funded science and has absolutely no concern for my health, safety or well-being. I refuse to pay into the current system and in 2014 if they expect me to, well, hasta la vista baby, Wales, here I come.
The premium you quoted, $40 a month, could only be a token payment. The last year for which I could find figures is 2009, between $2.3 and 2.5 trillion was spent on health care in the US. A mere $40 a month isn't going to cover it. It's more like $650 a month, and that is per person. Even if you could get me to believe that half of it is waste, your still looking at over $300 a month per person, just over $14000 a year for a family of four.
It's the uninsured that pay the highest amounts for care, Medicare dictates how much can be charged, which is why doctors often are forced to restrict the number of Medicare patients they serve. They also have to often hire someone just to deal with filing claims.
Like you I'll continue to go uninsured after 2014, the fines are less then the coverage, if they are able to collect them at all.
Hey Stacy, I don't know if you saw this Dr. Weil interview but if not, check this out- it's very good! http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2009/09/11/lkl.dr.weil.long.cnn
You may be right that univ healthcare in the USA would be that expensive. But, I was quoting based on what citizens pay in other countries like Australia and the UK. Our current system is excessively inflated due to the fact that the system encourages waste and abuse. The whole paradigm needs a super major overhaul.
It's always tricky to talk averages in a country with such diversity, but in the US we pay about 24% of our income back to the government in some form of taxes. European countries it's more like 34%. So they can afford more, Of course they are not having such good economic times either, but the basics are covered.
So true. Stats can be manipulated and are manipulated all the time. I pay about 25 percent in income tax and I don't have anything to show for it like they do in the UK though. European countries are really struggling economically due to many factors including the impact that our market has on the global economy and no country has a perfect health system but there is so much less administrative waste in other countries. In the UK a patient doesn't need to jump through hoops to receive excellent medical care. For example, a friend of mine had a child who was born with a type of microcephaly and almost died but he spent a year in London with a top specialist/neurologist at absolutely no charge. There was no limit to the amount of time he could stay at the hospital or the amount of care he would receive. The boy has lived to be 22 years old now, disabled of course but fairly functional. The parents didn't have to pay for room and board at the hospital and they have a daily nurse that assists in the care of the boy at home since he was born. All this at no charge and no calls are made for approval, no paperwork filled out for approval. It's just widely accepted that if someone needs medical care, they get it..no questions asked. The doctor's offices aka surgeries are local for each geographic area- typically neighborhood and there is rarely any waiting for an appointment unless it's for something unrelated to disease ( a vasectomy for example is not an emergency). Nannies are provided to ALL fathers and mothers when they have a baby at no charge. Parents do not work long hours each day and they don't work as many days per week and they get more paid holidays. They also take tea time which may last 1 or 2 hours each day...even the construction crews! I guess my point is that in the long run, they make more money than we do by working less hours. We give up A LOT in order to earn a decent income. I remember when I was managing a small company, the owner was working the heck out of his employees- 50 or more hours a week and these young folks were not able to survive on their wage unless they did so. SO, I told them that they should be paid overtime BUT, the owner had a nifty way of avoiding that by owning TWO companies and splitting the employees time between them. When I explained to the employees that their goal should be to work a reasonable 40 hour work week with a fair, higher wage ( work less with more money) AND THEN get overtime in addition to that, they simply didn't get it. They were under the illusion that to earn more, they needed more hours. This is typical of the American work ethic and why so many employers like the 1% get away with it. I'm not suggesting that we become lazy free-loaders. But, we humanoids are not meant to work our lives away at the expense of family values and personal relationships, good health and happiness. There's a give and take in all systems and I guess we Americans need to evaluate our priorities and decide what really matters in life. I personally would rather live a simple life with more meaningful relationships than to have a big house with lots of fluff and stuff in it. I would not mind paying 35 percent income tax if it meant that I could receive the benefits that they do in the UK but I guess not everyone would be happy with less fluff and stuff. BTW, it's so ironic that as an uninsured person, I can get faster emergency care than an insured person. In 02 my husband had pneumonia and he went to one of those small quick care dr's offices and they called him an ambulance and he was taken right into a room at the hospital while others who had more serious problems were left waiting and forced to make all sorts of calls to their insurance providers. One woman was having a miscarriage and she was lying in the hall outside of our room, crying, bleeding. It was horrible. I insisted that they give her our room but they refused. It took 3 hours for them to get approval from their insurance to admit her into a room. We paid the hospital in monthly installments for one year for my husband's care.