Forum Post: Why hasnt OWS aligned themselves
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 9:39 a.m. EST by theflamechild
(27)
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why hasnt OWS aligned themselves with other movements or countries to gain support and aid. the PFLP and RAF did that adn the RAF was hardcore about trying to stop capitalism and imperialism. im suprised countries like iran or iraq havnt approached OWS.
Ally with too many radicalized foreign organizations or countries and you will soon be added to a terrorist watch list, which could end up sending many to offshore prisons with zero rights or representation, or open "leaders" up to assassination.
no threats
That was not a threat by me, that was an analysis based on very recent events.
right
I meant no threats by the US
i dont think theyd do that, america has enough problems with "real" terrorist organizations like al-qaeda and the taliban. if your average OWS is 9/10 a pissed off flower child in debt or some joe six pack who got laid off i seriously doubt that america would purse to shut them out that bad.
after all were in america, the land of the free. the movement has a pretty big following from your baby boomers to foreign nationals, behind one 99%er is 10 more crying out for corporate justice
You might be surprised how quickly you could be identified as an enemy of the US. Try to step in the way of commerce and see what happens.
oh i believe it but its just times are different now. in the cold war era things like that wouldve been more susceptible.
the movement needs a leader and more principles and demands that arnt so broad it needs to get more strategic and physical. the way the movement is going it could stay like this for months even years, if it keeps up like this people are going to lose hope eventually.
My generation has created a nation of people accustomed pretty much to "instant gratification," which of course contributed to the huge growth of consumerism and ultimate collapse. This Movement is young and it will take time to evolve. I highly recommend everyone in it read "The Power of Now" and "A New Earth" by Eckhardt Tolle. His is the best philosophical discussion I've heard about why we behave the way we do and how we can better manage our self. Imperfect individuals create imperfect institutions; but if we are better able to understand ourselves and our response to the world around us, transformation can occur in a heartbeat.
people dont listen though thats the thing. protesters on megaphones can yell orders to 30k in zucotti but thats 30k out of 300 million~ and out of 30k most will forget about it or wont take it seriously. i wish everyone would listen and take some sort of arms
Arms? Are you suggesting violence responding to violence? That would stop everything in its tracks. A boxer friend of mine told me once that nothing defeats a boxer more than a swing and a miss. Resistance of equal force creates more strength in the attacker. If the OWS ducks every time the opposition swings, they opposition will wear itself out. Plus, it isn't just the people in New York who are getting fired up. I do believe that those who do listen, learn and think will be enough to create the change we need. Others will fall by the wayside. But no one can deny we are awake after decades of snoozing.
yeah we need to get our message heard loud and clear, that is once we define it and can demand what we actually want. its going to take a long time for people to grow tired of babysitting someone who constantly needs their diapers changed. Bloomberg thinks he can ride it out but hopefully hes wrong
true, it is costing nyc large sums of money for the police patrols and law enforcement.
Don't the police work any other time? As someone else posted, at least they'll have better holidays with all that overtime! I don't understand your reference of "babysitting someone".
saying that with the overtime theyre getting paid theyre not going to mind watching us. they practically just stand there and do the least minimal effort. i would kill to have a job like that. the cops are going to get tired of that.
its just a waiting game. cops and everyone else are getting paid while the OWSers arnt
Are the donations still coming in? That's the way the people are trying to pay you guys.
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The Serbian revolutionaries are advising the OWS. In secret. They are responsible for the fist symbol seen in many other countries and here in America. They are directing the show.
what symbol? can you provide any evidence, this seems interesting
can't find the video on youtube at this moment. Here is the group that is doing it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor! They have admitted advised revolutionaries in 37 countries and 5 of them have been successful. They admit to advising the OWS in America. If i find it ill post the video.
Reading about them, this group sounds like they've mastered a lot of protest techniques and OWS can use their advice.
OWS is getting their advice. So did the Egyptians. The FIST symbol is what they have created, and used it over and over again. They are a business now, and any revolutionary in the world who wants to get advice goes to these people. Still didn't find the video but its out there.
I thought that "Fist" was the sign way back when of the Black Panthers. Maybe there were a lot of signs laying around... just kidding. I know this isn't a laughing matter at all, but there does seem to be a paucity of humor in the posts I read. I do hope someone is guiding us. We have been bought by ye olde "bread and circuses", and can use all the help we can get to inspire and assist.
RAF used it during their campaign. i wish id see it more. the poster recently was a good idea but it could been better and the faux mask is cool but kinda childish besides who the f*k wears masks in public other than actual terrorists
I am definitely not on the side of the serbian revolutionaries whose basis is to destroy our government. I do not want to see anarchy in America. I don't want to have to kill people trying to hurt me or my family for food. That's what will happen if we collapse our government and our economy. And there will be an economic collapse if the government collapses. 47 million people on food stamps should be evidence enough that if you cut of 10s of millions of people from basic food, they are going to get violent.
if anything countries like serbia or "enemies" of the US are just trying to create some turmoil over some water under the bridge from years ago. i think it would be good for the movement though itd create some inspiration and give it a big push and then the so called 1% will listen or try to compromise. OWS would just need to be smart and not give in to what its supporters want - like you mentioned, the destruction of the US by a civil war almost
I agree that Serbians and others do not wish to destroy our government. Our government did that all by itself when it sold out to corporations. However, the core structure is still a good one and we can update it for the world of the 21st century without destroying anything that isn't doomed to failure already. As soon as we people can function as one body, we can do pretty much what is necessary.
greed and capitalism and imperialism run this country though. its been like that for centuries, i do believe the core structure is good, money and power has just gone to the heads of some people and those people need to be addressed properly instead of being bailed out or just unacknowledged
Greed is a human disease that infects all of its constructs. If individuals can realize that things are tools, not symbols of one's personal value as a human being, then perhaps we can stop craving more stuff and start caring more about each other. The greatest punishment we could levy against those who damaged the economy is to take the power back and return government to those who support the people's needs. Only people can vote. Only people can choose to not be influenced by slick, expensive ads that lie with sincerity. Let them spend their money trying to convince you, and then vote them out of power. Wherever you live, start looking around for good candidates to run in elections, local, state, federal, we can change the face of Congress in one year's time.
Why aren't they occupying K Street? its not very big with a couple 100k people you could completely surround them, and block them from the halls of Congress. Thats is where the problem lies.
thats another thing people keep blaming wall street but congress and the whitehouse are the ones that cut the cheese they have the overall say so. OWS are complaining to guys in suits who dont care about what they have to say its just about the money which i dont blame them but Wall Street casino isnt going to create laws plus i doubt that 30k supporters in nyc would move to protest at the state capitol. the movement in nyc should be just as strong at the state capitol
OWS is being lead by people with a different agenda from most Americans, which is why they remain 'leaderless' and more or less anonymous. They want to foment public discord. They want violence. read Rules for Radicals by Alinsky its pretty self explanatory. Why would anyone follow someone who desires for you to get pepper sprayed, or beat down by a cop, just so they can make a point while they hide in their bunker? People need to stop being sheep.
Do you mean to say that all of the talk of nonviolence is a smokescreen and they really want violence? I don't get that impression at all. I also haven't heard much radical talk. And I would change public "discord" to "awareness". Many of these folks have been keeping their heads down trying to achieve what they were told was possible by my generation (because it was possible for my generation). When they ran into a brick wall, it got their attention. Then they realized everything had been usurped by a very small percentage of the population because of skewed laws that stacked the deck against the people. They are awake now and seeking solutions. They know violence won't work. Protesting is a beginning, not an end.
Yes talk of non violence is a smokescreen. Why? because they know it is inevitable when you have lots of angry people, and nervous police in the same proximity. Does no one read any history? Protests and violence go hand in hand. I am saying that most of the OWS supporters are being fooled about who is running the show. If people weren't so totally brainwashed about OWS they would realize that their problem lies in Washington and not Wall Street. Who do you think gave the bankers permission to do everything? Washington. Who makes the laws? Washington. Who can make change? Washington. Do you really think that the bankers and brokers looking down at the OWS protesters in the streets, really gives a shit? Of course not. There aren't enough of them. And why? Because most of America recognizes the problem is in Washington, and trying to tear down our economy is not in anyone's best interest. I have been to several OWS protests now in my surrounding states. These people are generally ill informed, and misdirected. They don't even know what they want to achieve other than they want a job for themselves.
I agree that we would not be in this mess without legislation that permitted the raping of the economy. Can you explain why there is no politicking allowed on these websites? I would like to see a Democratic and Republican Forum here so people can present their candidates for challenging the upcoming incumbents. A third party, historically, damages the one that is closest to the third party's views, and is self-defeating. I do believe that violence can be averted if we stop living in the streets and start canvassing them.
Why continue to prop up the two parties who are totally corrupt. Let me tell you what happens to a freshman congressperson when they come in. Some may be independent and altruistic. Then the party leaders come to them and say this: "We want you to go along with what the party wants, otherwise, we will not let you speak on the floor, except to an empty house, we will not let you submit or sponsor any legislation and if you manage to, it will never get out of committee, we will not support you in the next election, and we will make you a pariah where nobody deals with you in Washington. So whats it going to be?"
That is the reality of the two parties. We need to break their backs instead of going along with them.
i think everyone can generally be upset about the economy, the high cost of living, gas prices, stuff like that. its reached a peak now where people are tired of and know theres some shady business going on that is being tolerated by our government.
people are allowing themselves to be pepper sprayed and beat. if you have people who truly believe 100% for the OWS cause then you wouldnt have this. theres just not enough people or a serious following
Do you know why our costs of living are so high? because our government requires 'growth' to stay in office. They will do anything to have growth, because slow growth does not win elections. Both parties game the system so they can get reelected. And what happens we have inflation and wage disparity, because the favoritism that goes on in Washington enriches the few. And that is just not the 1%ers.