Forum Post: Why Aren't People Upset With Unions?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 2:30 p.m. EST by Coltsin10
(18)
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You wonder why jobs have moved overseas? Unions. Why are American made goods so expensive? Unions. They will be a big part of the downfall of our economy. Mo one seems to be saying much about them on this board.
ALSO note that per http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php UNIONS DOMINATE the top 20 contributors of CORRUPTING MONEY to Congress.
Does ANYONE think all this money from Realtors, laborers, electricians, carpenters, etc had NOTHING to do with Congress pushing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to raising the CONFORMING LOAN LIMIT at an UNPRECEDENTED rate and FUELING the bubble?
Most folks don't even seem to KNOW that the LARGEST BAIL-OUT was to Fannie/Freddie. We gave them $200 billion AND absorbed LIABILITY for $5 TRILLION in loan guarantees!
Unions who have demanded outrageous wages for unskilled workers have caused companies to out source because they can no longer afford to pay American workers and still turn a profit. The automotive industry is a prime example.
Yeah right! Corporations can't afford $15 per hour for a union worker so they send the jobs to China where labor costs 40 cents per hour.
Even if you pay an American garment worker $7.25/hour (the minimum wage), you can't compete with companies in China or Guatemala that pay $7.25/day.
The argument that unions artificially inflate labor costs and leads to outsourcing doesn't address the globalization of labor and the vast differences in wages.
Greedy unpatriotic companies who aren't happy with huge profits so they move operations overseas in order to rake in even more obscene profits are to blame you complete fucking moron.
I am i hate unions. They are as bad as corporations.
Most idiotic statement I've seen on these boards, and that's saying something.
Really. So here is what a union does. A union you CHARGES you to work a job in return you get better benefits and pay. So they are collecting money from you. THEN they collect money from the business too for being a union business. So they dip in both pockets.This right here should throw a red flag for anyone with any sense.
These unions then encourage people to do less work for more money. I know for a fact this is true because not only have i been in a union i have about a dozen friends and family that are or were in unions within the last few years.
This cost the business a lot of money for less productivity. Take a union' persons wage and triple it and that is about what it cost for the business to employ that person. This makes it hard to compete with other countries and non union. The business says screw this and moves to another country where it can make a decent profit again.
As for work ethics. My union breaks were about 30-45 minutes and my lunch was 60-90 minutes. I only worked about 5 hours out of an 8 hour day. My brother was wrote up twice when he first started for working to hard.
I also finished a roof, as non union, that was about the same size as a union roof down the street. We started on the same day. We finished our job 1 1/2 days before them. with 1/2 as many people and it cost the homeowner 1/2 as much money( i know what the union bids jobs at. I use to bid against them all the time).
So you got a entity that makes you pay to work while taking the same bribe for the business you work for( double dipping and that sounds like a banks business model) , encourages you not to be productive, Cost the business 3 times as much as non union for 1/2 -3/4 the production which usually results in the business folding at some point due to high labor cost or moving part of the business somewhere else like the automakers did to be competitive.
The unions hand out the same kool aid as the govt and corporations.
There was great and not-so in the union I belonged to. We worked and changed some of what we didn't like. It wasn't instant, or even fast. But we kept on.
Union leaders have to be elected. They can be un-elected. That is one of the differences.
Union leaders/reps = politicians.
Elected people are all bad? Are elections bad then?
Their are some honest elected people. But the corrupt ones outweigh the non corrupt by such a large margin that they are powerless to bring real change. They have to try to work within a corrupt system.
Current elections are virtually useless. All your doing is electing what corporations/interest group dictate policy. Union leaders are as corrupt as politicians and as greedy as CEOs. They are a hybrid of the two.
My personal experience indicates that you are too cynical. There are many dedicated people.
The creeps, though, are much more memorable.
Moron.
People that do not have any good arguments always resort to insults.
Just call 'em as I see 'em. What do you do for a living?
What do i owe to unions?
carpenter
You owe a lot to unions and all the sacrifices people made. Learn your history.
Public vs private unions Private unions were forced to change However public unions just give money to politicians who become their bosses/CEO And the politicians just give the unions what they want When have you heard a politician who wants to crush the unions?
private sector unions fix themselves. public sector unions don't.
Unions are just one part of a much larger problem. Unions throw money at our politicians as well as the big banks and Wall Street. The problem with the Unions, in my opinion, is that some of them grew to strong and powerful and started to oppress businesses.
This is just another example of why we need to get money, lobbyists and special interest groups out of Washington.
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
Unions are one of the main contributors to the increase in the standard of living in the US. You are just to young to remember sweat shops. 80 hr work weeks. Child labor etc. Do away with unions and before you know it we will be back to the early 1900's Unions are not the end all to a perfect country but they are required.
Union bosses are incredibly rich and corrupt. They are appalling in how they steel from the poor. They are part of the Democrat rich bunch and no better than the Repub rich bunch. All the same.
There are private sector unions and there are public sector unions - two VERY different things. In the private sector, they bargain with the people paying them. In public sector unions they do NOT bargain with those who pay them - the tax payer. For that reason they should be outlawed (not to mention the insane pay, benefits and pensions). As a long time member of the National Education Association (and my state affiliate), I know of what I speak. Public sector unions do not see themselves as in service to those who pay them. They see taxpayers as serving them.
Private sector employees have every right to negotiate with their employers, just as individuals who work on contract do. Private sector unions should NOT have the right to force anyone to join, or to stop individuals from negotiating their own contracts or working without a contract. Freedom is the operative word.
Unions are not responsible for jobs going overseas. Politicians are. Both Republicans and Democrats have worked to pass trade agreements, going all the way back to the GATT agreements. They both sold this country out, coming up with all sorts of (false) arguments as to why; we needed to be more "competitive" (i.e.., race to the bottom), "lift up" the third world by sending jobs abroad (i.e., send tax dollars elsewhere to build infrastructure to rape the same).
Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) is a case in point, unfortunately we cannot outsource that.
And you better watch your back, some unions are notorious for painful backhanders.
Wow, an eye opener!
Unions are a group of angels sent down to protect us from "The Man"
Union jobs haven't gone overseas. It's the $12 per hour non union jobs that have gone to China. Besides, we like unions because we like vacations, health care, pensions, safe work sites, and good working conditions.
Stop subsidizing oil. The whole reason they manufacture things overseas is because labor PLUS shipping costs are lower. The problem is that it really isn't. It just seems like it is because the US Government subsidizes oil. $41 BILLION per year.
Budget hawks: Does US need to give gas and oil companies $41 billion a year? - http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0309/Budget-hawks-Does-US-need-to-give-gas-and-oil-companies-41-billion-a-year/%28page%29/2
Stop paying their shipping costs with our tax dollars. Make it less expensive to make the thing where you're going to use it.
I must admit, it was only a few years ago that I was infuriated when I drove by a road construction site and there was one guy working and about 5 others just standing there drinking coffee. I think everyone has at least one brother in law that tells you how they double up on overtime and retire early with a hefty pension at 50 years old. Oh and how about that Workman's Compensation case that is out on disability, fighting some permanent injury and they are home mowing the lawn and playing baseball with their kids. Every neighborhood has one of those!
The Unions didn't sell the union members out. They protected them and their jobs. The non-union workers are completely defenseless. Union political actions were childsplay in comparison to what the big money interests are paying our politicians to do. At least the unions fought for the little guy. The governing Corporations don't give a damn about the middle or lower class. The US Corporations have no intention of reducing the unemployment rate here, but they certainly are reducing the unemployment rate in India. They will everything we have if we let them.
The Unions didn't sell the union members out. They protected them and their jobs. The non-union workers are completely defenseless. Union political actions were childsplay in comparison to what the big money interests are paying our politicians to do. At least the unions fought for the little guy. The governing Corporations don't give a damn about the middle or lower class. The US Corporations have no intention of reducing the unemployment rate here, but they certainly are reducing the unemployment rate in India. They will everything we have if we let them.
Let's not give in to xenophobia, as it only corrupts the legitimacy of the movement. Fact is that our nation is in deep trouble. By "nation" I mean, us, the people as a whole. We have been robbed by those who are supposed to represent the interests of all Americans. Our tax money was given to corporations, who turned around and shipped our jobs, kicked people out of their homes, and continue to squeeze us for every penny. Bank of America is the latest example with their $5 fee on debit cards users with low account balances, meaning the poor. As far as our President goes, he never got off the campaign trail. He, as are the members of Congress, mere tools of the corporations to achieve their wicked means. Let's not fight among each other. Liberals, conservatives, moderates, independents, remember that unity means strength. Dems and Reps politicians and bankers are all in it together. It is all a show very much like WWE, and we are the fans. These people pit us against each other in order to control us. It is the old "divide and conquer". That is how they can get away with things. I no longer see liberal, conservative, nor moderate. In this economic, global dictatorship all I see is oppressed versus oppressors. Us vs Them. Let's take back our country, let's reclaim our dreams.
There's one answer to both sides of these posts -- publicly funded elections. Remove the temptation of private, and now secret, money from politicians, and you'll start to see things change.
Why do we have a 40 hour work week? Unions. Why do we have weekends? Unions. Why did we used to have a middle class? Unions. You fucking imbecile, the OWS movement is based on the same principles as unions--the people have the power, and united we can rein in the greedy, money-hoarding rich. What I'd like to know is--what do you do for a living?
"Would please leave the unions along? They are the communist parties of long ago, and besides they are doing a good job taking care of our pension plans."
Why aren't you angry at this? Why aren't you angry at that? Why don't you also denounce world hunger, syphilis, bad table manners, intellectual arrogance, devaluation of intellectuals, terrible rap music, retrograde musicologists, serial killers, death penalty, obesity...
The real answer : cause we don't agree on those and they aren't the reason people took the streets. We don't need to point fingers at who is corrupting who to know that corruption needs to stop. If unions support this movement and are really the biggest corruptors, well, I guess they are tired of all that corrupting, cause serious campaign finance reforms, along the lines of a set federal budget for each party, or transparent limited personal contributions, are probably the most agreed upon measures.
And anyway, I doubt the idea that what's wrong with the USA is that, with all it's silly rules that try to make sure people don't live in abject poverty, it isn't like China enough.
learn some leadership skills from the unions
Because wealthy union bosses and their wealthy sponsors stand in support of the proletariat. That is why their political campaign contributions should never be limited, and their voices should never be silenced! Only the evil capitalist Koch brothers should have their money taken from them and their voices silenced!
What are you talking about?
Because if it wasn't for unions there would still be slave labor in the united states
If it wasn't for the unions, corporations would have run amok decades ago. Maybe you want american workers to complete and work under the same conditional as third-world workers, but I believe that we should advocate living wages, safe work conditions and environmentally conscious industry around the world instead.
As far as I"M CONCERNED, NOBODY should be handing money over to my elected officials. If a SPECIAL INTEREST has a case to make, then they can make it to WE THE PEOPLE rather than in backroom deals with MONEY changing hands.
WE WANT OUR GOVERNMENT BACK !
I offer a proposal to TAKE it back from the SPECIAL INTERESTS at http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/
Hear hear! Speaking of unions, in very recent news, did you see where Obama declared the rail workers strike illegal right before they were going to strike????
Actually, lots of Libertarians are scapegoating with unions to further their own agenda. Unions expanded the Middle-Class and are not responsible for the financial collapse.
Unions didn't force outsourcing. Outsourcing is a business decision to increase profit margins for share holders and to reap a lucrative CEO salary. No rocket science in outsourcing.
Shareholders are middle class too.
Unions...oh you mean the guys who brought us the 40 hour work week, over time, safety in the work place, anti child labor laws...those guys?
Thank you!
Welcome!
uh no, the guys who expect (now demand) full health care
The essence of what labor unions do—give workers a stronger voice so that they can get a fair share of the economic growth they help create—is and has always been important to making the economy work for all Americans. And unions only become more important as the economy worsens.
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2009/02/efca_factsheets.html
here is a graph that shows how tax breaks for the wealthy have turned into recessions and depressions. FACTS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chart_1.png
Unions represent workers. Because I do not oppose American workers, I obviously do not oppose unions.
Keep sucking on the union dick and they might give you a load.
Why would I oppose Americans who work for a living? I am one. So are you, presumably. Can you articulate why you oppose Americans who work for a living?
I have an issue with closed shops. Unions will, and often do, deny someones "right " to work if they do not join the union. You tell me how that is standing up for the American worker.
The right to freeload is the the real result of open shops.
If the laws said that only union members got the benefit of union services, including negotiating higher wages and protecting benefits, then it would be fair. Let the ones who don't want to join just get the boss's original offer.
Again, you actively deny a person a job because of what they believe. You have no leg to stand on when you complain about no jobs being available.
You didn't read what I said. Let them have the job and the choice of whether to join a union or not. Just don't force the union to give them services or the benefits from negotiations, which succeed on the hard work union members put into their union.
You fail to understand that the employer pays the wages and benefits, not the union. The employer should have the right to pay a non union employee union benefits if they desire. If the non union employee is better qualified for a job, then the union should respect that.
Unions would be much effective trying to represent the people as the Customers who pay all the bills, and only secondarily as Employees who are the bills.
As such, many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
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Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
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Unions are more for the people than the 1% is, heck the Unions are part of the 99% and deserve to be here. Every group has issues, but I agree with the Unions more than I do with the Corporate Oligarchs!!!
Jobs are moving overseas because free trade agreements allow for exploitation of 3rd word laborers and exploitation of said laborers environments.
Watch This And Be Enlightened (I know Goldsmith is right because I work in the Aerospace industry and I've lived through what he says):
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5064665078176641728
We are.
First do a little history on what unions have done for America - then get back to me - Union are the 99% best friends.