Forum Post: Why are you so against the protesters? You have so much in common.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 3:59 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic
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All these people talking shit on the Occupy protesters are being ignorant. They agree with the protesters on so many issues but since they are blinded by the FUCKING STUPID IGNORANT FUCKS on Fox News and the stupid ignorant fucks that call themselves politicians, they can't understand what logic is.
We both agree the Government is the problem. We both want more State power and reduced Federal Government. We both want the government to stop wasting money. We both want our government to be empowered by the people and not corporate/lobbyist bribery. So why are you hating on the protesters? Get off the propaganda. Fox News and your Government is lying to you!
They are against the protesters because their leaders tell them they are. The corporate-state media exists primarily to ensure that the public picks extreme sides, demonizes those on the other "side," and NEVER, EVER unites against the real enemy of the people - the ruling elite parasites who quite literally plot against democracy and the best interests of the public. Remember when the banking crisis first happened and the truth was laid completely bare about these parasitical, dishonest, lying scum banks? You had people on ALL sides calling their representatives, screaming to let these banks collapse, almost completely united against the greed and corruption of the banking system. It took about 3 minutes for right-wing radio to swing into full effect, parroting crap about "socialism" night and day until they riled up the "tea party" contingent to such a degree that they began defending wall street - forgetting that a few months before, they were totally clear on the fact that wall street was the problem. The whole thing was really sad to watch and really mind-boggling for those of us who don't base our opinions much on the media's mind-control bullshit.
They are either paid, feel that its their patriotic duty to oppose any movement that threatens the status quo, or are right-wing zombies who are programmed (knowingly or not) to fight anything that their media demonizes. Remember, when right-wing, left-wing, middle-wing, or angry birds are distracted by fighting, the 1% wins.
Everyone should just watch this for the truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8t2RCVb9gg
You are right.
Some are probably paid, others just troll because they're angry nobody is paying them much attention.
True dat.
I am not sure that I care how big the government is. Government is supposed to be the people. Nothing should be bigger than the people. You're right about the rest. Fox News? We all know there is no news there.
Force Change, Boycott Capitalism
We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.
When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.
Our corruption dates back many years to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.
Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.
How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.
Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.
In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.
They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.
Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.
Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.
Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??
Occupy Washington and demand that government officials resign their posts.
We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.
Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.
Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change -- http://wesower.org
I agree with some of the issues brought up by some of the people there, their ability to present those ideas in a way that will change the hearts and minds of people there is on the other hand very very bad. In fact, it reminds me of how the hippies changed the world in the 1960's, and by changed the world, I mean got nothing done at all.
human civilization benefits from its history
lulz you conservatives love the word hippies. Someone get Nixon back in office.
"I am not a crook"
Conservative?
Liberal? Centrist? Left and then a right?
Trevor, I watch PBS every chance I have, I think that in itself should tell you what my opinion is.
You brushed people off so simply... you just had to say "hippies" and all of the sudden it's like people's ideas don't matter and they can't make a change. This has gone from one city on one side of the nation to other cities spreading to the other coast and even around the world. So to say it "won't make a difference" is kind of dumb. Instead of fighting against injustice yourself on your own level you just come here and call people hippies? What is that going to accomplish? At least these people are trying and they've gotten an important message out to the world by doing so. So I would have to say you are a little bit biased when you talk like that.
It's gone from one city to another, yet what is the dominant ideology at play other than "We hate rich people"? There is no dominant ideology, there is no leadership, and because of these two facts, this movement will end up going nowhere fast. I look at the Occupy movement in Canada and ask what in the hell they're doing in a country that has already existing tight regulations.
He says hippie ... because he is an old man. And this is about the Millennials ...
Hippies is a sufficient term. It 99% fits observation. Pun intended.
Wow you obviously have a lot of time on your hands. "You should get a job, Tommie."
And to HercalisCroco, I hate to admit it, but I can't lie about it. There are some people who are taking the point of the 99% the wrong way. It's not an us versus them. It's supposed to be used to point out the inequality difference that has grown too large. What happens if that small percent, more like the .00001% leave the nation and take their money somewhere else? That could be damaging. The actual problem makers are that .00001%
Mr. Doctor is not the problem. Mr. Guy who makes 1 hundred grand a year is not the problem.
Our government has been infiltrated and is being used as puppetry for profits at the expense of our way of life and our great nation. We should be better than all nations but we cannot when the people don't have the power. Not just OWS, but you and everyone. Congress has made bribery legal. Lobbyists, corporate contributions, some which don't even have to be documented. All legal. Why would they listen to us when someone's throwing money at them. That why the guy's with the money are always on tv. The patriot act? They're not on our side.
My job is to continue my education and defend my country's pillars.
I doubt it. What pillars are you defending by calling people hippies on the internet? "Go get a job."
Or go out on the street and rally with everyone in a "Our Government is perfect" parade.
I laughed so hard about this:
"Or go out on the street and rally with everyone in a "Our Government is perfect" parade."
Exactly.
Call 'em as I see 'em. Those who seek to destroy my country's foundation, have a blatant disregard for police, do not understand basic business, and lean towards favoring Socialism, Communism, etc., are hippies.
Need help making a t-shirt. We need to draw a picture of Zooccotti Park with a cage around it. Here are some ideas: Draw a hippie climbing the cage like a monkey and throwing shit.
Draw a hippie rolling in mud and shit like a pig.
Draw a hippies fucking like dogs.
Draw a picture of a hippie eating peanuts like a big fucking elephant. Draw a hippie as a lazy fucking Ape doing nothing.
Cool you are a hateful person. Are you all about it?
U have a kind chin.
the got Nixon elected. the silent majority.
Hi TrevorM, Good post. Best Regards, Nevada
Thank you!
It's because they are scared. They don't know what's going on, and they cling to what's comfortable. Fundamentalists cling to the Infallible Truth of the Gospels, Consumers cling to their Purchases.
I've nothing in common with most of the protesters... I'm hard working and don't mind being hard working... I support the protests only because it goes against the government which is the problem
Sweet! That's a good way to feel about your differences. I work really hard too. A lot of people do. A lot of those people do to. They rotate like shifts based around their jobs. I do understand some people do it all of the time and do not have jobs. I can't really speak too much on behalf of OWS because we do things differently here in Omaha. And I haven't been to New York in about 3 years. But yeah the government has become corrupt. You should do your own thing to help fix that. You don't have to JOIN OWS. You can do your own thing. Sometimes your enemy's enemies can be your friends. We need to get corruption out of politics together... and then we can settle our differences afterward. Peacefully as can be too because together we have made a huge accomplishment.
I disagree with the Occupiers for the following three reasons:
hahaha you should go get a job. You just spend your time trolling a site with a childish name like "occupiersblow"??? Go get a job slacker.
trevor does not watch fox news otherwise he would know it is more liberal than Rachel Maddow.... a Saudi Prince has been buying up shares of Fox. Your kind of logic is based on inculcated worldviews denying reality to implement a marxist government. Why if this movement is for the people do you have a GA and facilitators? Why if you claim all are equal do you use the progressive stack for speakers? Cross your arms at the next speaker.... have a taste of what you seek for all.
Fox News said that liberals are upset that liberal blacks aren't as black as conservative blacks. Yeah... that's... that's Fox News. I actually watch about an hour or so of Fox News every week. Usually Bill O'Reilly. Everything else I usually see through news clips online. I hate to give O'Reilly the views but I have to know what the opposition is watching to stay posted.
I am against communism. I want to restore true capitalism. Not this system that has companies that care more about profits than the number of people their tainted goods will kill. Not this system where everything is in debt, our economy is shrinking, it's corrupting our government, and drastically devaluing our US dollar.
who really needs interpreters of reality??
do yr homework about the leaderless movement... u will find it isn't so leaderless.
is it the NWO?
People reject what they don't understand and it will never entirely make sense to the thinkers of the world.
Just accept that there are simpletons who just don't think about it. If they were standing in front of an oncoming train, they still wouldn't turn their brain on and then they'd get hit and another simpleton would be born somewhere else to replace them.
It's a fact of life.
Couldn't I just tell the guy that the train is going to hurt? Then he'll move
nope. it seems that way to us but just accept it. it's easier for you.
64 credit unions received bail out money.
their government methodology is copied from the 1936 spanish revolution...when all was complete, the people were more enslaved than before, using the classic marxist idiology of from each according to their ability to each according to their need. They created a cashless society using vouchers. The "spokes" method of OWS GA style government is the framework supplied by Alliance for Global Justice who also granted OWS their tax exempt status.. Van Jones and George Soros have a heavy hand in OWS.
Obama gave bailout money to unions the most money went to government owned Fannie and Freddie.
Obama is a fraud like George Bush, but on a different level. And I don't support communism. I support true capitalism... not this system that has some big corps considering paying for law suits over death in comparison to profits.
We have laws and regulation for a reason. They're abusing those by paying for congress to change the laws. And the government is taking away our rights too. The patriot act? Absolute bullshit.
and unions are not?? global marxist groups have also pumped money into elections.... CAIR is buying their way into schools, government and the legal system. You cannot have one reality.... both sides ....one road... to destruction they take us... no liberty, no freedom, no life but surfdom.
read about the 1936 spanish revolution..... visit the alliance for global justice website.... you are being led down a path of enslavement...
NWO theory?
New World Order... even Hitler spoke of it....
I was asking if you're suggesting the NWO. I believe in it on certain levels. Not in a lot of the ways some people do... like if you've seen the joke of a movie called the Quickening. But it obviously does exist. Politicians in our government and across the world have mentioned it. I believe in it in the sense of Globalization. I don't agree with it. I think globalization is a stupid theory and will only happen at the expense of massive war. Even then it won't work. People are not the same. Their theory on globalization reminds me of segregation.
I am a "5%'er" who came here to understand OWS. I have to say I have been amazed at the level of detail, logic, and reason I have been exposed to during respectful and civil dialog here. Really, it's amazing ! All I have to do is offer up some census data, perhaps a pointer to some history, and people say "That's interesting. I guess I can see how that might cause you to feel the way you do. Is it possible the data would be better explained by ...." There have been no cases where people called me an idiot, a shill, or a troll simply because I asked them to discuss some census data, law, or encyclopedia entry that conflicted with their positions ! It's just been a real showcase of rational and respectful discourse.
then why do they have their own government? why are individual thinkers coerced to agree with the mob?
You missed my sarcasm, but don't take it as meaning I don't see SOME good here... see my post at http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-percenter-ready-to-join-if/ and my proposal at http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/
In reading your proposal, you ignore the fact that government education has been teaching a generation of minds that the constitution is irrelevent, a "living" document subject to change. The children of spell check and whole language have no care for intelligent discourse, only mindless chants and meaningless phrases. They have been taught self hate, Americans are evil and the cause of misery throughout history and the world. They have been taught to hate business...they have been taught humans are animals. Goals 2000 wove marxism into curriculum. School Boards consistantly lied bold face to their constituants and broke local laws when holding private meetings to implement it. Although you make good sense, the inculcated are blind to reality...to the point that a DC occupier used her children in a blockade and again to stop traffic. The demensia of the occupiers is jelled. They cannot see the wrong, when they think the wrong is right. God save the Republic!
Well, the Constitution IS a living document, and the incorporation of the Supreme Court proves that's how the Founders wanted it. On the other hand, people DO seem to have lost the ability to engage in reasoned and respectful debate, and too few fight as hard for the rights of others as fight for their own self interest. It's yet to be seen whether this Grand Experiment, born of the Enlightenment and based on Faith in the ability of man to reason his way to self government, will succeed or fail. At least with this OWS movement people are ENGAGING... now if we could only get them to do the darned hard work to RESEARCH the issues, form their own opinions based on fact, and engage their fellow citizens in reasoned and respectful debate.... I am an optimist, and I am hopeful we can yet live up to the Faith of our Forefathers that Government of the people, for the People, by the People can yet live.
I have done my homework on the movement... it is not as it portrays itself...
I did read your post.... I concur with you, but I fear too many cannot see the reality of those who control the "global revolution" I can only think that the sense of belonging is stronger then the need for truth. The people are being used. The more frightening thing is the dehumanization of the so called 1% and the inclusive nature of 99%... both numbers do not meet with reality... similar to the "Hope and Change" chant... no one has explained the goal....the utopia... other then to suggest the world would be more "Fair" without the 1%. this idiology dehumanizes the preceived enemy or cause of misery... and within lies the danger. The brainwashing techniques of "twinkle fingers" and "mic" destroys individual thought and replaces it with group think. They are the collective, they are legion. The reality they are given by the GA is filled with half truths and propaganda. The outcome will not be good.
I share your concerns, but on the other hand, it IS good to see people ENGAGED in their Democracy, and I am willing to listen. Right now all I hear is a broad statement, "This is not right, and it cannot stand." Perhaps this is sufficient? Consider Gandhi, Tienanmen Square, the Arab Spring, etc. At SOME point, however, people need to work to actual solutions, and they are likely to come from "thought-leaders." I try to help focus all this people power in a positive direction, but it's not at all clear whether that can be done. It will be harmful to our Nation for so many disillusioned to come away from this unsatisfied. I hope for positive outcomes.
Good Heavens... do you not know the uprisings in the Middle East were fostered through our government under 21st Century Statehood and that George Soros has his hand in it as well as OWS? The Alliance for Global Justice supplied the framework for the government they are establishing in their country within our country. The Alliance supplied OWS with their non-profit tax exempt status... In Egypt the supposed democracy of freedom has brought more death to Christians and the flag of Al Qaeda flies over Lybia where sharia is now the law.
Are you aware that executives in business accepted jobs only after lawyers on both sides agreed to a CEO's pay and benefits? Yet they are demonized by those who care not about facts or history.
You gaze upon this global revolution through rose colored glasses... when destruction is on the streets of the Republic, perhaps then you will recall my warnings. The disillusioned will walk away with blood on their hands or they may be eliminated as all useful ones are after revolutions succeed ... this is a communist revolution merged with Islam whose common goal is the destruction of the Republic... The Georgia Guidestones tell the future that is sought. A utopia of Death.... in the name of FAIR.
Oh, I believe there are all SORTS of hands in these things. You DO know the origin of the Anonymous system and the Thor network behind Assange, right ?
At the same time, however, none of these movements MOVE without people.You can prod them, you can give them technology to spread the word, you can feed them partial truths via the media, but it takes a LOT to move this many people.
In THIS case, "a LOT" is readily quantified. People have seen us bail out the banks, they see how much money CEOs are making, they see people losing their homes, they see huge costs of tuition and large debt burden at graduation with little hope of finding a job. 9% of us are unemployed. For the all these problems, they see nobody being held accountable.
It doesn't MATTER that many of them fail to see their own role in this mess or have been guided this way or that. They are UNHAPPY, and THAT'S what brings them to the streets. It's like art "I don;t know much about it, but I know it when I see it." People smell a rat. There not sure where it is, but its there somewhere.
The kind of popular discontent that has this many people out on the streets has to be addressed, and they DO have at least ONE point: the corruption of politics by money. Surely our Founding Fathers did not intend for so much money to be freely flowing through the hands of our elected representatives, and the harm it does is quite evident to all.
Work with these people and try to move them to good. PLEASE.
Why then, do they not protest fannie mae and freddie mac and the government that owns them... why do they not protest the colleges to lower tuition... no one forced anyone to take out a loan to pay for education..I got a job to pay for mine...I worked as a dishwasher, a housekeeper and other jobs....and was told once I wasn't going to get the job because I was the wrong color... I guess I was considered privileged by OWS standards even though I was raised in a 3 bedroom house with 11 other siblings. We took no government handouts.. my father worked 2 jobs then my mother worked and I took her place and kept house and made dinner and lunches. All without complaint. We had a fire in our home we had no insurance, my 2 year old brother was burned and we had no healthcare nor insurance. Yet I will be judged by OWS to be privileged. I wear a better shoe than some. I will be judged by OWS even though I have helped so many others monitarily and not for tax write offs.
Yet in the minds of the occupiers, I am one of your rats. I am the one you smell. They do not even know me. Hate has no saturation point don't you know?
do not judge me by my shoes... until you have walked in them.
Do you think I have not seen unfairness? Do you think I have not seen suffering? I have never expected another to pay my path in life. I have never felt envy or greed it is not my nature. I do not judge the world through the lens of inequitiy and intolerance...those are mere mountians to climb...and doors to pass through.. One does not achieve by destroying others.
The rhetoric of OWS is becoming more defined with the use of words such as target and enemy....that dehumanized 1%....the unhappy ones ...led to destroy that which they deem has created their unhappiness.
Odd to think a black woman can be born in poverty and through her hard work becomes the first self made billionairess. This will not be possible in your world of iniquity and fair. All will be hunting the thing that the leaders point to... you in your own words reveal the intent... People smell a Rat... a rat that is somewhere... and so you await the call... the call to destroy the rat. It is evil that breeds such hate towards those you do not know. When the violence comes, and it will, all innocents will suffer, all in the name of iniquity.
You take my words as criticism, and they were not intended thus.
I apologize... it is the rhetoric of OWS that is becoming more focused that worries me... I do not see destruction as the way to help others. I read a book 18 years ago... sad I do not recall the title. It spoke of the year 2012... it said that Hillary Clinton would run for President, it said there would be a third party, and I saw blood on the streets of the Republic. I saw the hate and the violence the future held... I tried to tell others...they thought me crazy so I remained silent. I know what is to pass, I saw it. If I could stop it, I would. I can only pray the vision will not be realized... but in my heart I fear it will and so many will suffer the cruelty. There is no end to finding iniquities.....are you concerned where this could go?? This revolution? It is led by those who have no regard for life. Like the Imams who train others to blow themselves up while they remain alive to continue the deaths of others with promises of utopia. It is the same you know. It is no brave new world they seek...it is the control and the power over others. OWS dehumanizes officers who have families and lives they call them PIGS. They call those who work on wall street the enemy... can you not see where they take the people with honest greivences? It breaks my heart that anyone should suffer for those who seek control. We are people before we are cast into catagories.... we are life, not death and it is everyones life we should care for and have the freedom to do so ...not the mandate.
Your rhetoric has a certain manic tone. You need to calm down and detach a bit from worldly matters. Read the thread at http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-mordor-because-one-ring-should-not-rule-the/ and let yourself laugh a bit at the grand schemes we manufacture. It's important to keep perspective.
You are a divine soul created in the image of God experiencing the Gift of Life which is, at it's very core, a Gift of Imperfection from a Perfect God. Perfection is eternal and unchanging, and it is only through imperfection that we know positive and negative charges, matter and anti-matter, love and hate, success and failure, and despair and hope. So precious is the imperfection of Life that God himself, incarnate as Jesus, lamented His departure in the Garden of Gethsemane. So foreign is our imperfection to God that it is only through His experience among us as the flesh-and-blood Christ that he understands and forgives our weakness in the face of temptation. Accept and forgive your own imperfection and that of your fellow man, enjoy the Gift you have been given, and have faith in Eternal Life !
This all sounds a bit superstitious to you, I'm sure, but beyond the known remains the eternally unknown, so we are forced to CHOOSE what we believe. We can either CHOOSE to believe we are meaningless products of random chance and live in despair, or we can CHOOSE to believe we have Meaning and Purpose and live with Hope and Joy. I choose Hope and Joy, and I am baffled why so many choose otherwise. This is the very meaning of Faith; it's a CHOICE.
Have some fun, enjoy the company of your loved ones, and relish the Gift of Life you have been given with Faith there is Meaning and Hope beyond the confused and imperfect affairs of Man.
In other words, "chillax dude," the world will not end because of OWS !
I am so tired of every single time something isn't what the Republicans want, it is labeled "communism" or "socialism" and those are these scary concepts that no longer hold any weight or meaning. It is really annoying.
It's sort of like ,"get a job!". Y'all need some new material.
if you look at the origin of this revolution, it is based in marxism...
I sought no interpreter to gleen this information from, It is the words of those behind OWS who brazenly speak of the concepts. You are detached from history to believe you are somehow original in thought. Why does OWS seek a new monetary system? Why does OWS have their own declaration that is a rewrite of that which has been done before? Why is OWS promoting "group consensus" and Direct Democracy??? It is sad that you believe you have a "new" way of ruling the world.... who taught you? what did you read?? I do not recall myself suggesting you "get a job" ..when your revolution succeeds, you will be enslaved by those who rule you..each according to their ability...each according to their need... nothing new in that concept. Your utopia of "Fair" will be that all are enslaved by whoever wins the game. and you are a pawn. enjoy your freedom while you have it.
oops...I'm usually better at recognizing sarcasm....
That's awesome, Rico. In all honesty hate is infectious. Right before I posted this I had same hate filled verbal attacks thrown at me and when I got home I had a bunch of people spending their free time to tell me to "get a job, hippie." I have several jobs, one of which is a business I'm starting up. So this hatred then spread to me. I usually have much better things to say than this post. This one still has a good message in the end.. but the part going ALL CAPS with the F word isn't all that productive.
This is what I usually post:
It's kind of odd that the former CEO of a company that stole money from people, Goldman Sachs, is responsible for the bail outs and the way our financial system works. Kind of odd that everything is failing. I smell a rat. His name is Henry Paulson.
Money has corrupted our government and most importantly our congress. It has used forms of oppression in pursuit of profits, like sweat shop labor, Nike style. This isn't how capitalism is supposed to operate. Capitalism isn't supposed to be in our government. Capitalism is our economy. Outsourcing industry? Sweat shop labor? Poor working conditions and low wages for other foreign outsourced industry? People dying from tainted products because pitching all the product was more expensive than the potential law suits? Hundreds of people dying every year in our country from pursuit of profits? This is not how capitalism is supposed to work. Some of you might call the bail outs socialism... Who was backing certain members of congress to vote on the bail outs? Who was using scare tactics to get what they wanted? They said "if you don't pass this you will see a collapse. You will see riots in the streets. You will see martial law." Well they passed it for them.
If capitalism works, then why is everything going bankrupt? Our country is in debt 680,000 dollars per person, which is trillions of dollars. Our banks needed bail outs. The dollar is decreasing in value. The economy is depleting. Major companies are going broke. Most state governments are broke. And most of the people are in debt. This is capitalism? No, it's been hijacked and turned into a massive pyramid scheme where the guys at the top have everything. We no longer live in a capitalist democratic/federal republic society. We live in a monetary dictatorship.
I support democracy and TRUE capitalism. I don't support this new system of corruption and fraud.
things are going bankrupt because the government interceded... the companies, "too big to fail" was a lie. It helped to create OWS... read about the spanish revolution of 1936... it happend due to a housing crash...in the end, people were under marxist socialist enslavement.
We agree regarding money in politics. See my post at http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-percenter-ready-to-join-if/ and my proposal at http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/
Unfortunately, I have to tell you my comment was sarcasm. I've given up on this crowd. People simply do not want to engage in civil discourse. It's the whole MSNBC vs. Fox thang, and it destroys our ability to self govern.
Unfortunately, the war of idiology is now quickly becomming a war with each other. I have seen evil rise from "power to the people" chants.... I have seen the dehumanizing of my fellow citizens, a pandora's box of death and destruction. Now they await a trigger to purpatrate their evil... this is not woodstock.
Yes and no. It is annoying to fight with each other when the government and the system is the problem. The system is being taken advantage of and it's devaluing our US dollar, it's shrinking our economy and increasing poverty.
soros made over a billion on the downgrading of the Republic..
there are a lot of assholes making profits at the expense of others. This is not capitalism. Capitalism is making profits from products and the best products and companies rise to the top. This great system has been hijacked and taken advantage of and turned into what I call a growing monetary dictatorship
How is it that people keep saying hippies accomplished nothing?
There was a MAJOR cultural revolution that happened in this country in the 60s and 70s.
Major.
Starting with the civil rights movement - okay, those weren't the hippies but that got the ball rolling as far as protest.
But then - clothing and other social customs were completely transformed. That is not a small thing.
The drug culture -- whether you think it is good bad or indifferent -- the hippie movement caused a major shift in people's attitudes about mind altering chemicals, it is just that our laws have not caught up.
How about the Vietnam war protests? The draft? Why is it we no longer have a draft?
How about women's rights & gay rights? Equal pay for equal work, accomodation for disabilities. Those all came out of social movements of the sixties.
I have seen the French Revolution referenced far more than the Civil Rights Movement and the Russian Revolution & more than the Stop the War Movement by people at OWS.
The Spanish Revolution of 1936 ..will tell you the story of equal pay for equal work... only who decides if the work is equal... some move slower than others ...some not as competent..will there be equal pay then?? Who will decide the "Fair"? The direct democracy???
Currently in this country, there are special rights for special people contradicting the constitution which states we are equal under the law. Now, some are more equal then others.... why are you not a GA member?? are you a privileged? or are you the marginalized? how is that FAIR or EQUAL?
Amen
The way out is to amend the national constitution and set term limits for legislators. Accompanied by limits on campaign contributions similar to what AZ and Maine have instituted, we're home free- Amending the constitution, that will take some real work. RE: citizens united- this is the website: http://movetoamend.org/areas-focus/move-amend/amending-constitution
Term limits is something the Tea Party advocates, therefore, likely to have mass appeal if both the TP and OWS agree. The only way to amend the constitution would be to convene state conventions (since legislators won't cut their own pursestrings) in 2/3's of the states and agree on the amendment, then it can be proposed. If 3/4 of the states approve (again probably via state convention), it is ratified. (Article V of the Constitution of the USA) The only way to create that much exposure is by TV. National level, big $$$. That's where Bruce Springsteen, Warren Buffet, Bono, Oprah and the rest figure in. Ralph Nader himself wrote Only the Superrich Can Save Us. Here's their chance.
ralph nader is a disgusting person... going after ford motor company and not the greater wrong! ...I was parked outside Ford Motor Company headquarters when he was spouting off about the dangerous corvair ... and I witnessed a Volkswagon get rear ended and not at high speed.... It exploded into flames..the poor soul inside the vehicle had no chance to get out as the flames from the rear engulfed the interior in a flicker of a moment. Shortly thereafter, VW stopped exporting cars and subsequently, reinvented the beetle. Nader doesn't fight for what is right ...he fights for progressives....
This is the problem with people in the Repblic.... it was wrong to point his finger at a single problem rather then calling out all who were guilty of putting a death mobile on the market!
because if you listen to what MOST people are saying on here, OWS does not want smaller government. OWS does not want more state power.
Other than that, most seem to agree that there is a problem, and most agree with what the problem is. The difference is in the solution.
then instead of attacking people who are not in power... Why don't you people go after the corruption? Seems more productive than fighting people for no reason. If we are all wanting a change, then a solution will present itself.
"FUCKING STUPID IGNORANT FUCKS on Fox News"
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Fox and Friends is how Satan wakes up in the morning.
WOW! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Your need to use such vulgarity to express what you believe, is exempliary of many in the OWS movement and your lack of "higher intelligence". As if "fuck" makes what you say absolutely true or means everyone just has to agree with you. How are you going to sway the beliefs of people.... that is what you are trying to do, right?.... when you give people the impression that you don't know how to form an intelligent, meaningful reason to be believed with articulate words and ideas?
So if I say,"You fucking should befuckinlieve as I fuckin befuckinlieve just befuckincause I'm fuckin right", will you join my cause?
Fuck is an awesome way to present the assholes on Fox News. It's a fact.
Think about that. You say that they "brainwash the minds of so many idiots", and they are able to do that WITHOUT having to use a single Fword. You can't even express yourself in WRITTEN form without using it. What does that say about yourself? Think about it. If you can't, call Jon Stewart or Rachael Madow. One of them will give you something to say to ATTEMPT to sound intelligent.
yeah in all honesty it was after being told a million times to "get a job" even though I have 3. I was a little bitter. But the people on Fox and Friends are definitely stupid ignorant fucks on a lot of issues.
We agree the government is a problem. We don't agree that sitting in tents and chanting is going to change anything.
I don't sit in a tent. I have never camped out over night. Well not since I was a kid... but I was camping. I am not telling people to camp. They can if they want. 1st Amendment. But why do you care if people are camping in a tent.? Why don't you focus on the actual problem?
Because it's not a problem for me. I'm thriving in the current environment. I see no reason for change.
That's called being an apathetic asshole. Not only do you recognize the system is being taken advantage of, but because you are financially okay you don't care about other people or the problem. Your government is lying to you. But hey it's not a problem for you. It's not a problem for you that some corporations are responsible for the deaths of many because the potential law suits are cheaper than ditching a hazardous product. Since it's not a problem for YOU, why would it need to be changed? Damn... I should base the entire world around you.
Look you said focus on the problem. I don't see a problem. As long as I continue to educate myself and make good investments, I'll be fine. I do not see a problem.
You are foolish and naive. It's a growing problem. Eventually it will see a member of your family or even you. There are a ton of people who didn't see a problem and then their company laid them off because younger people will work for half the pay and no benefits. A lot of corporate trends are catching on in business around the country. Taking away workers rights and profiting at the expense of others. You are a fool if you support these methods.
Yeah, ok. I'm such a fool. I have no idea what I'm doing in this world. I don't own multiple roofs, investments, etc. I have no idea how to operate in this world and be a success at all. How about this idea? We only listen to people who are proven successes? Wow, rule by results. What a concept.
Money has corrupted our government and most importantly our congress. It has used forms of oppression in pursuit of profits, like sweat shop labor, Nike style. This isn't how capitalism is supposed to operate. Capitalism isn't supposed to be in our government. Capitalism is our economy. Outsourcing industry? Sweat shop labor? Poor working conditions and low wages for other foreign outsourced industry? People dying from tainted products because pitching all the product was more expensive than the potential law suits? Hundreds of people dying every year in our country from pursuit of profits? This is not how capitalism is supposed to work. Some of you might call the bail outs socialism... Who was backing certain members of congress to vote on the bail outs? Who was using scare tactics to get what they wanted? They said "if you don't pass this you will see a collapse. You will see riots in the streets. You will see martial law." It was just a tactic in their distorted view of capitalism. Which is make money against any cost that isn't their money. Well congress passed it for them. We have laws and regulation in place so our system can't be taken advantage of. They're getting rid of those laws one by one. And they're making new laws which make our system worse.
Not only are you okay with this, but you love this system? It's working so well for you so nothing else matters? That is naive.
So you have an issue with Congress, but you're at Wall St......
Look, I wanted to see those banks fail even more than you did.
I'm not at Wall Street. What are you talking about? Why would I quit my job and travel to another city when there is plenty to do about my own city?
How can you support the flaws in our system? Not just government but the way some people have hijacked capitalism and turned it into something it's not supposed to be.
If you don't support the bullshit why don't YOU do something about it instead of hassling people online? Sounds like you should "Go Get a Job."
Go get a job, Daennera. I have a job. Sometimes as many as 3 at any given time.
This is what it comes down to. Do you want to live in a world where you have the opportunity for both wild unheard of success but also complete and total destitution? Or do you want a world that limits both your potential and your failure?
My money is on there are more like me in the former camp, than there are you in the latter. And we will profit of this little game being played. We will profit well.
Profit from death! Yeah that's cool! Sweat shop labor and outsourcing industry! Yay!!!! These acts are not capitalism. We need to restore true capitalism and democracy.
You have no soul.
"Discrimination in the workplace? Not allowed according to the constitution. Many workers rights are backed by the constitution. You're just trying to dance around what I've previously mentioned, at least it seems that way to me based on your reply."
Ok, so you have not discriminating based on race, religion, ethnicity, yadda yadda. Although that applies to more than just employment. But there isn't anything I can recall about the guarantee of a wage, much less of any job, in the Constitution.
Wow you have a lot of time on your hands and you keep making assumptions about me that have nothing to do with anything I've mentioned. Like I've said... you seem to think injustice and limitations on freedoms are acceptable. So therefore we have nothing more to talk about because you are incapable of reason. I am in a great financial situation myself. I make a good living too... but I'm not naive enough to think we live in a flawless system. I would rather spend my time trying to get corruption out of politics, because they make our laws, all the while you just hassle people online.
Go get a job, Daennera.
I'm done trying to talk with you.
"I'm not demanding socialism or wealth redistribution. I'm demanding workers rights like the constitution allows us to have."
The Constitution says nothing about workers rights. It says we have freedom of speed, that we can all vote, that we can bear arms, that slavery is illegal. But it does not in any way govern the labor market.
Discrimination in the workplace? Not allowed according to the constitution. Many workers rights are backed by the constitution. You're just trying to dance around what I've previously mentioned, at least it seems that way to me based on your reply.
"Like I asked before, just because you are okay means none of the problems matter? Why not live an awesome life while also making things better? Why not keep making all of that money that you make and try and restore true capitalism, uphold the constitution, and build true democracy?"
I am. But I'm not going to do it by demanding socialism or wealth distribution. I'll do it by rebuilding the worst city in Indiana with my own two hands. I will do so by keeping the strictest standards for tenants I can. I will do it by making it affordable to run a business in my neighborhood. But I will do not need the government to hold my hand or anyone else's to do it.
I'm not demanding socialism or wealth redistribution. I'm demanding workers rights like the constitution allows us to have. I'm demanding our government top stop doing what their financiers pay them to do and work for the people. I demand they stop taking away our rights with bullshit like the patriot act.
It's kind of odd that the former CEO of a company that stole money from people, Goldman Sachs, is responsible for the bail outs and the way our financial system works. Kind of odd that everything is failing. Our economy is shrinking. Industry is leaving the nation. And our US dollar is losing value every single year. I smell a rat. His name is Henry Paulson. Wanting this bullshit system to be accountable for it's actions is not socialism. It's true capitalism.
Probably because I'm one of those people who can survive and thrive no matter how adverse the conditions. We are neither the 1% nor the 99%. We just exist and do our thing and always have a plan and goal.
Like I asked before, just because you are okay means none of the problems matter? Why not live an awesome life while also making things better? Why not keep making all of that money that you make and try and restore true capitalism, uphold the constitution, and build true democracy?
Wait - we want more state power and reduced federal government? I thought it was the other way around. How are then going to implement the living wage and forgive student loans and mortgages n'stuff?
Wait, I don't give this group enough credibility to follow them in depth. Don't tell me they believe everyone should be entitled to make a "fair, livable wage" no matter what employment they attain?
I thought so, but then I saw someone else wants to eliminate the monetary system, so now I'm not sure.
Why are you on this site then? If you don't give anyone credibility... are you just here to troll people?
Yes.
A lot of people like myself come here because we are sick and tired of the corruption between Wall Street and Washington and want it to change, but we see a percentage of OWSers who are proposing to bring down our government completely, destroy the Republic, replace it with ridiculous democracy, and end the capitalist way of life most people rely on to feed their families. We do not want to live a communal life of bartering and singing kumbaya with no laws via an anarcho-syndaclist viewpoint. It is never going to happen. When the OWS has people like Angela Davis, a long time communist as a speaker and everyone at the protest is supporting her, then these people are agenda driven against 98% of Americans.
We don't live in a capitalist society anymore. I would love to have capitalism back. it's been hijacked and turned into a monetary dictatorship. It's turning into a caste system, like in India. Just look at how a lot of people who "are doing well in life" look down on poor people like they're scum. What the fuck is that? Are we in India or something? And how the fuck are you against democracy? You think a select few should be able to control everything? That's a dictatorship.
Can you explain this further - monetary dictatorship?
Money is the power. It has corrupted our government and most importantly our congress. It has used forms of oppression in pursuit of profits, like sweat shop labor, Nike style.
This isn't how capitalism is supposed to operate. Capitalism isn't supposed to be in our government. Capitalism is our economy. Outsourcing industry? Sweat shop labor? Poor working conditions and low wages for other foreign industry? People dying from tainted profits because pitching all the product was more expensive than the potential law suits? Hundreds of people dying every year in our country from pursuit of profits? This is not capitalism.
Ah contrare. A Republic is a representative form of government. A Democracy is a lynch mob where 51% can take away the rights of 49%. We don't want that. And i agree our free market hasn't been free for decades and the rich and the government are in league. We have moved from a Republic to an Oligarchy and moving to a democracy to try to get away from it is a very bad idea. As for the make up of communists in your area, i can imagine that not alot of them in Nebraska. The northeasterns and westerners where the protest is strongest is where the communists mainly reside. We are on the same page and i apologize for offending you.
It already is a lynch mob. Because 5% can take away the rights of 95%. Like the mother fucking patriot act. At least 51% is a better number than 5%.
You ever hear about the patriot act?
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We do agree on so many of those issues but where we part ways is the pretend-we're-making-a-difference blue tarp drum circle exercise in futility, the raised on MTV, everyone gets a trophy generation is doing playing 1968.
I don't have any trophies and I don't watch mtv. If we agree why are you telling me that you and I disagree? I have a job. I pay taxes. Corruption has over taken our government.
Not all parents agreed with nor raised thier children on MTV or the idiocy of everybody wins. We did not buy cell phones for our 3 year old children nor computers for our 12 year olds. We don't buy cars, new or old, for our children we expect them to buy thier own. Entertainment while driving in a car was looking at this beautiful country and not watching the latest movie on a DVD player. Please do not judge a whole generation by your views of it. My children were raised much better than that. They never even watched the horrors of the news until they were forced to by a public school on 911. That is what my children remember about 911, being forced to watch the news for the first time in thier young lives, 8 and 10.
Another charming visitor from Fuckland, I presume??? Sorry, I don't speak fuck.
You're actually doing it pretty well because what you're saying is stupid.
Aaaaaaah!!! You just made a full, 12-word sentence without once using the F word. So I guess I've made my point.... :)
Yeah I only use it against Fox News and elitists. Next time I'll say "earmuffs" as an advanced warning.
:o)
Think you are misguided. The people who started this movement, and the ones who are leading it are anarchists. They want to bring down capitalism and our Republic form of government. They are not interested in bringing an end to lobbying and corruption like so many Americans, and certainly don't want states rights. That is where the OWS will fail. They have consensus among their small group of radicals but not with the rest of America.
I have been promoting that the Tea Party and the rational people who support OWS, march on Washington and demand and end to lobbying, immediately campaign finance reform, and alternatively to remove all 537 elected officials in enough time to have a full election by next November with all new people.
You are misguided. I actually am a member of Occupy in my city, I've talked with countless people and in our meetings we've all come to agree on what we stand for. I can't argue that there aren't a few people who are pro-communism, because it's true. But for our group of 1 thousand, it's 4 people who are pro-communism. And we even have about 20 tea party guys because they realize we have a lot in common. The only place we stand differently is healthcare and education. I say we need to reform campaign finance and get the voice of the people back in power. Then we can settle our difference through the power of voting. But other than that, we agree on just about everything.
Sorry i am open minded, non partisan, and i have a very good handle of politics and economics. I also am aware of who is running the show in OWS and the make up of the protestors. Face it there are not more than 50,000 protestors nationwide, and they would be lucky to have 5x that number of active supporters. That is only 300,000 people in a country of 300,000,000. That is 1% buddy. Only 20% of Americans even identify themselves as liberals. And not all liberals are in support of this movement, i know bunches who are not. However a large majority of people are anti-Washington corruption. Sorry you are so closed minded.
Yes we are definitely against corruption. It's what Occupy Omaha is about the most. Because we actually have a great city economy. One of the best in the nation actually. We want money out of politics. Congress has passed laws making bribery legal. It's bullshit. So if we agree on that, why are you wasting your breath attacking me?
I wasn't attacking you i was trying to get you to understand reality, because the people who are organizing much of the OWS are communists and anarchists. If you love our country and simply want an end to the corruption, and a return to true representation of the people, then you need to call out these radicals in OWS who are going to fail, and give the movement a bad name.
I don't live in new york and I have no intention of going there any time soon. I'm too busy with work and organizing events here in my city. But I've talked with the radicals that range from the few "communist people" to some violent sounding "tea party extremists..." The tea party guy told me "If we want to make a difference we have to go after the government with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other." I talked with that guy for about 20 minutes about how crazy that sounded. I also told the other guy that communism doesn't work. So yeah when I meet people who have weird thoughts, I talk with them about it and try and reason with them. But I don't think they're giving anyone a bad name unless you watch Fox News. Because most people have a great view on what's happening to our country right now. We don't live in a democracy in a capitalist society. We live in a monetary dictatorship.
There are still many people who are not informed of OWS. I am trying to get out information in my small town in Florida. I'm quite sure there are many more protestors than 50,000 nationwide. The same people are not there everyday as many are students or have job. When they leave others take thier places. Also, with the brutality shown by the police more attention and more supporters have been won over.
Logical fallacy: Ad hominem.