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Forum Post: If you disagree with current policy, then the best way to express this disagreement is by shutting up and NOT attempting to change it, right?

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 15, 2011, 1:27 p.m. EST by ARod1993 (2420)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

This is directed mostly at the "Don't vote!" crowd. Honestly, I disagree completely with them; we want as many of us (and our friends, family, affiliates, etc.) at the polls as possible. Incidentally, there is empirical proof that not voting not only fails to help but can actually hurt. Between a third and half of the country already does this, be it out of apathy or an impulse to boycott, every presidential election cycle and the numbers are even more miserable on midterm years. Look where it got us. When people fail to vote it's almost always the poor and the working class who don't vote, and that tends to have nasty consequences for our social safety net, corporate regulations, etc. I've actually written a paper on it; if you want more information just go here: http://ge.tt/8j7Yuz9

On top of that, I would argue that we need to do better than just voting; we need to co-opt the 2012 elections on the level of individual races. Remember Charlie Rangel? Despite voicing public support for OWS, Rangel turned around and voted for a free trade agreement which is most likely going to ship even more jobs overseas and runs contrary to the founding principles of the movement. This is despicable, and a fair number of people on here ought to be pretty pissed. Here's my question to those of you who don't want to see this sort of behavior continue: When's the next round of Democratic primaries, then? And which OWS organizers are in Harlem and willing to locate and get behind a challenger for Rangel's seat? This is why we need our own slate of people running for office. If we want to get real change then we're going to need to offer real people willing to run for office and able to win; we can't trust people like Rangel to vote with their constituents and the general election offers us a choice between lip service and outright hostility. If, however, we unseat Rangel in the primaries, then we can probably put our man through the general election with little opposition and we'll have our very first OWS'er in DC.

The thing is, if we try this for Rangel and succeed (which we should) then it sends a message to the rest of DC that they have to start taking us into account if they want to keep their jobs. The Tea Party did it, the Populists did it, the Green Party does it on occasion, and generally speaking it works. Citizens United allows us to build and fund an OWS superPAC, essentially a war chest that we can spend on our candidates across the country. Now, we'd obviously not start soliciting corporate funding for it because that goes against everything we stand for, but imagine the power that an independently aligned national coalition of small donors would have to influence this country during elections season. We could throw our people (actual OWS'ers with community organization/activism/legal backgrounds or OWS sympathizers in that category) into Democratic and Republican primaries across the country, and even if we only take one or two seats most legislators will think of the Tea Party and be less willing to ignore our interests.

28 Comments

28 Comments


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[-] 2 points by Fight4futurefreedom4ever (6) from Peachtree City, GA 12 years ago

Very well stated, Arod. I thought, in the beginning, that not voting was the right way to go. I was talking to my husband about it when he looked at me like I had eight heads. I asked him if he didn't like that idea... he said "Hell no! Because the ONE idiot that does vote will pick the winning politician and thats like playing Russian roulette!"

LoL-- fair enough, fair enough. We can make a true democratic system work. Just as we have made millions of people around the world open their eyes. Just as we have shown those who don't support this movement that we will not sit back and shut up. We can reform everything. I don't understand why people have such a difficult concept to grasp. We can accept truths about our country, truths about our history, we all can have a voice, and we can all change the way the country is run. That is fact.

But, we must stop with the name calling. And, there will be those who continue this behavior. They will push the buttons to try to ignite the rage within us. They will verbally abuse us, phyically beat us, and test our patience. We must unite. We must remain calm. We must not be disheartened. No war has ever been won in a day or a week. We must use the resources we have and that includes law and politics. That doesn't mean we allow those who hold office to "represent us" because if they were going to do that, it would have already been done! That means those natural born leaders, stand up, listen to the 99%, and lead!

Just do it in a way we aren't used to.... let's figured out a functional, organized method to relay the voices of many to the Representative(s). I believe in this movement, I believe in the people of my country to stand up, and I believe the cannot take something from us unless we give it to them. Stand strong Occupiers!!

[-] 1 points by Daennera (765) from Griffith, IN 12 years ago

If you want to change something, voting is useless, get elected instead.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

Which is why I devoted the last two thirds of my post trying to explain the value behind getting our people elected the way the Tea Party did. Voting isn't useless, but by itself it's not necessarily enough to fix everything. Rather, assembling OWS or OWS sympathizers as candidates on the national scale would be perfect for us.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 12 years ago

An individual's vote has value. This is something we tend to forget, we look upon voting as an obligation.

We vote whether or not we agree with either or any of the candidates, we choose what we consider the lesser of two evils.

Don't vote?

Not so long ago, Japan held an election and nobody came.

Why?

Because the people of Japan value their vote and they felt that the candidates should be worthy of them.

When the people of Japan 'said their piece', a new round of campaigns began, with different candidates, candidates that the people felt worthy of voting for.

Don't vote? We could never get the people of the USA together to make the lack of attendance at the voting booths to make a statement for us.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

That's the thing; I honestly don't believe that abstinence from the polls would work in this country. Writing in candidates (even if you write in a farm animal because you're pissed and disillusioned) is better than not voting to make a point, but I don't think it's enough. Once again, I'd prefer we concentrate our efforts on finding candidates we'd be willing and ready to vote for and then vote for them instead of simply walking away.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 12 years ago

'I honestly don't believe that abstinence from the polls would work in this country.' That is basically what I ended my reply with.

The point was each vote should and does have value and that we should be presented with candidates that understand that value and strive to be worthy of it. Haven't seen much of that lately.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you said; I've had a bit of a long day and I didn't pay close attention to everything you said.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 12 years ago

It's ok, I think we all get tired and there is a massive amount of information being exchanged on this forum, not to mention the noninformational postings titled as such.

The Japanese were wise enough to understand what the people were saying when confronted by the refusal to vote...it would be interesting to see what our American politicians would do.

As it is, wee are unlikely to ever see such an event, interesting or not.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

That wouldn't be very patriotic or knowledgeable, and like I always say one without the other is evil, or better let life going backwords (sic).

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

Just out of curiosity, what are you referring to?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

I got ninety nine problems but lack of love ant one. If you got social anxiety, I feel bad for you son.

If the poor would respect the middle, they would want to help. If the rich were not loosing their standard of living, they would not eat the middle's lunch. if the taxes were progressively fair, then the poor would have money to buy the middle lunch, and the rich would not be tempted to reduce the value of the currency. Social engineering is not rocket science it is respect. so i guess i would say: is that until we compromise, the spectacle must continue.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

That's interesting, but what I'm curious about is how those ideas would translate into policies.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 12 years ago

So why do i feel alone in pointing folks to Philadelphia? What's soooo troublesome about holding a National General Assembly? It's legal. https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

The only real problem I could see with that has to do with logistics. A national GA in which OWS sits down to hammer out a national platform, develop a basic set of policies and strategies, and make a real attempt at addressing problems within the camp such as sexual assault and black bloc crap would be a great thing. The only issue I see is getting 5-10 people into Philly from each delegation, even if that delegation is as far off as Portland. Flights cost money, and I think if that were resolved it would get significantly easier.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 12 years ago

Until you've read the Declaration it will hard for you to frame your comments. No problem. The NGA isn't about the camps it's about what happens on the next level up, it's about occupying the congress if push comes to shove. As in 1774, logistics are a perennial problem yet they managed to overcome. wiki 'Suffolk Resolves'

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

I don't doubt that it can be done and I want to see the national GA happen; I'm just always nervous about implementation and logistics when it comes to these things because even small details can have outsize effects on how this is going to go off...

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 12 years ago

"we've got nothing to fear but fear itself, not Fate, not Failure, not Fatal Tragedy, not the broken contacts in emotional chemistry, not the faulty units in this mad machinery..."

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

I do agree with that; what happened was bad, and what happen cannot be allowed to happen again. However, the worst of what happened was brought on by our own paralysis and confusion after the fact.

[-] 1 points by deweybueno (25) from Grass Valley, CA 12 years ago

Thank you please do not let the enemy provoke this movement to be a pawn in their game. It is time for a voice in the movement. Simple goals achieved. Why does no one one to help turn the money = speech around?

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

I think everyone wants to overturn Citizens United; the reason I mentioned it here is that if the law helps us in our fight to overturn it then that's just one of the great ironies of life. One of the first things I'd want to see done was a reversal of Citizens United, massive lobbying reform, and the return of Glass-Steagall. All of these things are necessary for a functioning society. None of them are particularly appealing to most of the current occupants of Washington DC. If we get politically involved we can make the consequences of continued obstinacy on these matters even less appealing to our government than the loss of their ability to be corrupt.

[-] 1 points by laffingrass (362) from Normal, IL 12 years ago

If we don't vote, nobody will get elected!

[-] 1 points by me2 (534) 12 years ago

lol... I swear there are people who believe this!

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

...and that's the problem. People don't seem to understand that voting is an important right and that deciding you don't feel like exercising it is sheer idiocy.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

I checked into it; my Yahoo account is choking a bit for some reason so I can't really see anything yet, but it sounds like a good idea. When would the convention be and what would the minimum qualifications to attend be? If it's during the summer or in January I might be able to make it, but a) I've been keyboard-only so far because of the coursework I'm dealing with so I've only had a little contact with the occupation near where I go to school, and b) if it's during term and not during a break or a weekend I really can't guarantee anything.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 12 years ago

"WHEREAS THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION PROVIDES THAT:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

BE IT RESOLVED THAT:

WE, THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in order to form a more perfect Union, by, for and of the PEOPLE, shall elect and convene a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia."

msg me if you can't access the site

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

I'll try again later in the week; I have an early final and a crapton of HW due Thursday and Friday. Thanks!

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

The way our system works, if 99.9% of the country doesn't vote, the election is left in the hands of the 0.1% who do. The fewer people get out and vote the fewer people actually have a say in what's going on, and the more likely things are to keep deteriorating. If you don't like the current slate, get people together and propose your own slate. Simply not voting when you're still subject to American law is like going to work every day and then not collecting your salary in order to "punish" your boss.... and it will have the same impact.