Forum Post: Who can lead this country?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 30, 2011, 2:32 p.m. EST by moderate
(10)
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Who can lead this country? Does the Occupy Wall Street movement endorse any presidential candidate?
Only the good shepherds from now on.. thanks ;)
If you really like to change things, please click the following link and start a campaign to get millions to sign it......Thanks.
http://www.change.org/petitions/members-of-congress-and-senators-fix-the-economy-and-balance-the-budget-now?pe=d4e
Obama man can!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhhkF3dqXR0
Pick a group of First Graders in any school in the country. Clean brooms sweep clean; dirty ones - well you know the rest.
The PEOPLE can lead this country if they would only USE their power. See http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/
We need a real man who isn't going to take no crap from no one who can respect the laws of nature and of God, Some one that will enable me to have complete control over my life ...
Representative democracy has failed, it belongs to the highest bidder. Old models are no longer sustainable, OWS is the evolving model for a new social order.
Good luck with that.
Thank you.
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Please correct me if I'm wrong. And please forgive me for what i'm about to say. I'm not saying this to be rude, but I have to bring it up. So far all I see is a slough of filthy people who want to urinate and defecate on private property that is not their own, repeating in unison what someone else is saying. If you don't have good personal hygiene habits, you don't dispose of your urine and feces properly, and you repeat everything someone else prompts you to say, how can you lead? Barack Obama has already proven what happens to someone who cannot make a speech, much less lead a country. If I understand you correctly, you say that your group can lead. How can you lead other people when you can't even lead yourselves to the bathroom?
We're actuay making dung patties for fuel. It's sustainable and you kinda get uaed to the smell when it burns. It's important that we all eat a grassy diet or it's harder to light
please be careful with said dung patties because i heard on the news some of you accidently dropped them in a bank. please understand that most other people (other than you guys and.... gg allin) hold bodily wastes in high disregard,
Stop making sense.
we can.
Why would anyone want to vote for any of these idiots that the D's or R's offer up. All losers, all Corporatists!
But we need someone. Who's it gonna be? Does anyone have any idea?
I wish there was a good answer...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/socialize-pensions/
Simply sell your vote for this one issue. Currently the party system is setup to divide and conqueur and prevents us from having a direct say. Electing Obama should have changed that as he was as close to grassroots movement as a candidate could be but well once he appointed goldman to his advisory team it's pretty obvious he was another con.
Selling your vote for this issue would remove all the money that flows into wallstreet that doesn't have to be answered for directly. This would ultimately make Wall Street accountable again to shareholders who have the power to curb bad/corrupt management.
the best solution for leadership at this time would be an online vote by all americans on each individual issue, we don't need politicians anymore
This has links to former debates, you can watch any or all of them and get an idea where they are on the issues.
http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2012-debate-schedule/2011-2012-primary-debate-schedule/
I read in an earlier forum, they endorsed Roseanne Barr. They should come out and clarify this.
http://www.usparliament.org/platform.php
http://www.republicfortheunitedstates.org/
Probably the best thing for people to do, is watch the debates, take notes of how they stand on the issues, then when the parties elect their choice, you will know what the available options are when you do go to vote. If you like none of them, write in someone that you do like. The write in candidate will not win, but you will have preserved our right to vote, which is a freedom people died for you to be able to have.
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It isn't my choice, I was just taken aback when one of the OWS people said she would not be at the General Assembly because she had to go to Chino California for business with the Parliament, and someone else put info up about that Parliament. OWS has said they are leaderless, so I found that unsettling.
Don't mess with Lisa. Cause she's my woman and I love her!
Lisa, don't let that other person upset you.
How about working on a new bill of rights type of document, one that not only better expresses the freedoms and the role of the citizen but the expectation of the citizen has of society/govt. eg. education, healthcare, infrastructure etc. What would be really great is to have it work for everyone on the planet!
and who the hell is gonna pay for healthcare? if we get gov't healthcare i know i will have no choice at all. i'm a woman trapped in a man's body saving up money for sexual re-assignment surgery so i can become a woman. and i'm willing to pay for that. i don't want some government declaring the quality of such a surgery. even worse than that i don't want some government telling me they will not support such a procedure.
Global government... no thanks! We already have a Bill of Rights, it has just been trampled on. Again, no thanks on being the savior of the world. The USA has proven quite well it cannot take care of its own homeland.
here's mime, an old insider that's on our side:
Former Head of U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Professor Michael Greenberger, speaks to Congress on the high price of oil--and he's not happy about Energy Deregulations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related
He at least has to be on the financial reform committe; to help us rewrite the laws for speculators...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/brrr-1-rich-federal-reserve-cold-banks-solidarity-/
I don't think it is possible to identify a leader before identifying our goals first. Once we collectively articulate 1-4 major demands, then we can start searching who would fit the bill most. Then, we can even negotiate with best fitting leaders for them to endorse more demands from us.
May be I'm too optimistic. But this is my wish.
I'm trying to look at both sides of things. So if I understand, Occupy Wall St protesting and crapping on public buildings and interrupting people's lives for no reason? Occupy Wall St has no leaders? And you want to talk about how Occupy Wall St will identify a leader after you identify goals "Once we collectively articulate 1-4 major demands"? You don't have a plan? You don't have any leaders? You don't even have goals? You don't even have your demands formulated yet? All Occupy Wall St is doing is creating problems for no apparent reason.
These Tea Party protests do not cause the problems that Occupy Wall St protests create. No Arrests. No rapes. No problems. And the Tea Party activists seem to have a plan. So right now this Occupy Wall St movement doesn't look so organized.
Currently the corruption is just too much and too big. If you're following #OWS you've already noticed long list of demands. The reason I said we need to articulate 1-4 major demands because I don't see how to correct all these issues at once.
If we start 1-4 real important ones then the remaining issues can be resolved successively with the momentum created by the initial movement.
I don't understand why do you compare #OWS to Tea Party? There has been some Tea Party movement activists on the blog when #OWS has started and they advised us how not to fail. They were very helpful. They shared same same pain that we all feel: the pain of corruption. Don't you feel it?
Please take a look at my previous post at: http://occupywallst.org/forum/do-you-support-the-us-constitution/#comment-272355 as to how I look at current corruption. And let me know if you disagree.
I see this movement in its infancy. It will grow and grow worldwide. Our mutual knowledge is our collective power. As we communicate and learn from each other, we will be more coherent, more powerful and more demanding. So far, I was feeling the pain but I was not even able to articulate my feelings. But I can now. I know the reasons and I know my priorities.
demands do not reflect goals. a serious movement has goals. a bunch of cry babies make demands. or they threaten to throw temper tantrums. i'm getting a mix of all different stories from all different kinds of people that want to get together and create anarchy. so i don't know who to listen to. but i do know that i see a lot of angry people who don't appear to want to participate in our captialist system by offering society something, hold down a job, and build something for themselves. all i see is lazy people with angry at the success of others trying to bring down our country and our way of life. our country is still a great place to live. and from what i have seen thus far i am starting to believe that occupy wall st is a large temper tantrum. from a bunch of babies crying for attention.
Have you read my post on the link above? I asked you if you'd disagree. (BTW, I respectively disagree with everything you said above.)
I read it but the last posting sent me off on a tangent that made me forget about what I was about to post. (That's what 560mg of Dialantin does to me.) I read it and I think we both agree that we need to build a better society. But what I see from OWS are individuals who want a government who will take care of everybody. But such a government will take away rights of individuals. Thomas Jefferson once said, "A government big enough to give you everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...." I hear people talk about re-distribution of wealth. That boils down to taking money away from people who have right to it. They earned that right by working for it and making wise decisions on how to invest it. Let me tell you this. I believe in redistribution of wealth, with a twist. Let's cut taxes. Initiate a flat tax. Let the ones who have the ability to earn money earn more money. And they will re-invest that money in money-making opportunities (creating more jobs). They can afford to hire servants (creating more jobs). They will pump more money back into the economy by purchasing goods and services from companies, creating more jobs for them. Redistribution of wealth, when it comes to cutting the taxes of the rich and upper middle class WORKS! So my question to you is simple. How will gun laws improve the job situation? How will abortion rights effect the current economy? If these are the demands of OWS, these will create a bigger more centrally powerful government. I read your demands. If the following are met, this is what will happen....
a) gun law -- more laws and less freedom for the law-abiding individual who chooses for himself the responsibility of firearm ownership.
b) abortion rights -- teaches people that's it is ok to go out and have promiscuous sex without taking responsibility of raising a child.
c) stem cell research -- a red herring. it has been proven that better research has come from umbilical cords of live children than stem cells of aborted babies.
g) increasing statutory laws -- more laws means less freedom.
Concerning the following.... h) outsourcing election system to private corporates I think we agree that the United States cannot oursource our electoral process. That needs to be done by the people, such as volunteers who help officiate elections. (And I express great displeasure in paperless balloting.)
When you respond to this, please further expound on the following. I don't know what you mean the following...
d) corporate personhood e) special tax exemptions f) voiding bank regulation laws
I look forward to hearing from you.
Thomas Jefferson was even against the idea of single federal government; he was against any centralization. Regarding corruption and control that comes with centralization, please watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV9A2IGShuk, jump to 12:04 min. and watch at least 6 minutes (I actually suggest he whole video if you have time). David is trying to warn us against any centralization move around the world (aligned with Thomas Jefferson). And I fully agree with both.
Re: cutting taxes or making them flat: It is a whole new debate and I don't want to start. Let's refocus to our initial discussion.
Re: my examples (a .. h): The conversation was about supporting our constitution or not. And I was trying to emphasize what constitution based government is, and why it is important for us to protect our constitution. Referring to protecting our constitution, I was trying to show-by-examples how majority opinion can be disregarded over time, turning our system against us. This was the basis of our discussion as you pointed out: "I read it and I think we both agree that we need to build a better society." And it's linked to my statement: "They (some Tea Party activist that advised #OWS in the beginning of the movement) shared the same pain that we all feel: the pain of CORRUPTION. Don't you feel it?" And this conversation is all about how to prevent government and financial CORRUPTION. Preventing corruption is tightly linked to "protecting our laws and constitution" that my prior blog was referring to.
In that blog, the examples I gave (a .. h) are not ideologies of #OWS; they were just my examples for that blog.
Examples (a, b, c) are legitimate examples: we are 50-50 divided; these are our problems, they concern all of us.
But in examples (d .. h) I tried to show how corruption can modify our laws that turn our system against us. These laws are passed by the influence of special interest groups to create loopholes and to gain self privileges:
(d) Corporate personhood: "As a matter of interpretation of the word 'person' in the Fourteenth Amendment, U.S. courts have extended certain constitutional protections to corporations. … Some have argued in court that corporations should be allowed to refuse to hand over incriminating documents under the Fifth Amendment." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood). By definition corporations are for-profit tyrannical structures (top-down hierarchy, absolute ruling) and they are given 14th and 5th amendment rights! It outraged many and there are that many discussions on YouTube.
(e) Special tax exemptions: What makes our tax law so difficult is that there are many hidden exemptions (or loopholes) that benefitting only few (such off-shore tax havens). Many corporations (especially financial) are using these loopholes to unfairly dodge taxes, while small businesses and individuals are brutally forced to pay their taxes (sometimes putting them to bankruptcy under economic stresses that we have this decade).
(f) Voiding bank regulation laws: The whole financial collapse was caused by such deregulations (example: Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999). Please watch these two YouTube videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvnO_SH-4WU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veAOoQEy0PI. Congressman was trying to warn us in 1999 about the possible financial collapse, while trying to block this law. This is just one example.
(g) Increasing statutory laws: These laws are created to give our tax dollars to corporations (such as oil companies) for no good reason.
(h) Outsourcing election system: This is the nightmare case as you also acknowledged. If this law is passes, the will of the People will no longer determine our elections.
As you see the pattern, laws and constitution is either modified or mal-interpreted to alter our way of lives.
Returning back to your statement: ".. we need to build a better society." I cannot agree more. Corruption is hijacking our Republic and we must act together to stop it. As you see, I'm not discussing any ideological differences among us (we are all different and feel different). Those set aside, our problem is the same: Stop government and financial corruption.
The best example to understand how our system is gradually CORRUPTED is Edward Griffin's video. Please watch it and distribute to your friends.
"The Collectivist Conspiracy": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdu0N1-tvU
OWS move is against this corruption, so were Tea Party moves. We must join together to protect our laws and constitution, our freedoms and our ways of lives. In the end, we are the 99%.
Nobody can lead in a non-functional broken system. We are here to fix it. Can we organize ourselves to bring change? Who has a natural ability to organize people, we are looking for you. Contact me for a disscussion.
I feel honored that you are looking for me and you believe I something to say in this forum. Concerning the organization of ourselves to bring change, paragraph two of the Declaration of Independence states, "...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..." That axiomatic document affirms the legitimacy of altering or abolishing government. Said document goes on to say, "...Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes..." So my question to you is simple. What is your definition of "...to fix it."? To work with the current system of government toward change for the better? Or to abolish the current system of government and set up a new regime? All I hear from OWS is people trying to throw wall street under the bus. But what happens from there? And what will be the role of OWS in the next Presidential election?
We do not work with the current corrupted system, nor do we abolish it. We, as the 99ers in 39 other nations provide New Guards for our future security. They do not even alter the system, they just fix it. And yes we are looking for intelligent debaters and being smart is nothing to be honored for. From our debates with others you may be the one responsible for a breakthrough that leads to a more equtible system. This is when you are to be honored. Dictionary defines a Patron as chosen, named and honored special guardian protector. OWS is Patrons occupying. Patronage is what gives Patrons their political power to commission these New Guards. You have to meet or exceed all the definitions of a Patron before one can appoint. This is a political advantage as the 1% cannot employ these guards. But they do commission their men to look after their interests. Presently we have no one looking after ours. This is our queen game piece who sits on top of all administrations including SCOTUS. Two of our states have already adopted this system. There is nothing to it. The one thing it needs is unanomous consent and there are no detractors not one to this Jason Bourne nemesis system, now a global phenomena. Your thoughts
Uhhh.... I don't understand. You say, "We do not work with the current corrupted system, nor do we abolish it." What do you do?
People have been preaching to me Wall St and career politicians run America. Are you advocating for someone who is not a career politician and not someone who has not worked on Wall St. If the answer is yes, that would Eliminate, Mitt Romney, Newt Gengrich, Rick Perry, Barack Obama, and most other politicians. So who's it gonna be?
We simply do the duty given us and provide new Guards for our future security. What do they do? They fix a good system without abolishing or altering. I am not advocating, our founding Patrons advocated this. We simply commission this New Guard to carry out our mandates. A council of Patrons supervises these Jason Bourne plenipotentiaries. Your thoughts ?
Endorse me for Dictator...I've already made my own currency:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=192541177449826&set=a.186593984711212.35348.185652504805360&type=3&theater
Vote for Nick Howdy..Your only chance for a future!
I'll think about it, as long as you don't make me address you as Your Majesty.
Funny!
and you can forget about "Brotherly Leader and Guide of the Revolution"
Do I get any points for being cute?
We don't need leaders.
Then what do we need?
If we don't need leaders then what is the answer? Does anyone have the answer?
We lead ourselves. The people run it.
yep... we use a combination of tests based on psychological profiling and intelligence tests to determine, say, the best 250 people to govern the world. we include fail-safe tests which indicate corruption.
the technology isnt there yet, tho. thats the only problem...
And based upon said testing we can choose these people to live in a bunker to survive the nuclear holocaust to create a master race after everyone else is annihilated? Ever seen Dr. Strangelove?
cant hang, huh hon? i understand : )
see ya round
dr strangelove stole my idea?
from the sound of things he fucked it all up
either that or exterminate 95% of the global population, completely at random. that would also probably improve things... except no killing hot girls between the ages of 15 and 23.
(regardless of race or creed, of course)
I saw a movie about that...
General "Buck" Turgidson: Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned? Dr. Strangelove: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious... service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.
well i am not sayin i would bang a 15 year old but i am saying that women over 23 are no longer attractive from an objective standpoint : )
but i wouldnt want to have sex with more than a baker's dozen per day...
(in case you were wondering how i came up with 13, according to recent tests that is the count)
The Occupy Wall Street movement is a subsidiary of the Obama reelection campaign.
The plan is to keep the "movement" going until next October.
Mere weeks before the presidential election of 2012.
Then why did they just ban pro-Obama posts (and all other pro-candidate posts) from the forum?
They don't want it to be openly known that this movement is a ruse to help Obama. One of the main objectives of this movement is to hide that agenda.
However, the agenda is clear. The timeline is clear. All of the organizations and many of the organizers involved in the movement were also instrumental in Obama's 2008 election campaign.
Herman Cain can Lead!
All aboard the Herman Cain train!
Help elect the first African-Amrerican President in History!
What? Doesn't Bill Clinton count?
Occupy Wall St has not officially endorsed any candidate and I don't really think Occupy Wall St will. But from what I gather I think it's safe to say that Occupy Wall St wants a president who is not a career politician. So that would eliminate Mitt Romney, Newt Gengrich, Rick Perry, and Barack Obama. Occupy Wall St also wants a president who wants no ties with Wall St. So sorry, Mitt. That's two strikes against you. So the real choice comes down to either Herman Cain or Ron Lawl. If you look at Ron Lawl, he has beautiful, flowery libertarian ideas about choices and how the US Government is too powerful. But Paul doesn't seem to have a real plan in place. In addition, Paul is a kook. Paul goes on Morton Downey Jr Show years ago and advocates legalization of all illegal drugs. (See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHB2I83_N_k .) That's gonna cause some real problems in the process, so I don't think Paul would make a good president. Paul has no real plan. So that brings us to our last real choice. Herman Cain. He didn't make his money on Wall St. He made it "on main st." He has turned around businesses and made them profitable. He is not a career politician. And he has a plan. Among them are the 9-9-9 plan. With my limited knowledge on his stance, Cain is my choice. And it will be in the best interest of Occupy Wall St to elect Herman Cain as the next President of the United States.