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Forum Post: ~~ Which One of You is.. Un-American !? ~~

Posted 1 year ago on Aug. 15, 2012, 1:11 p.m. EST by Marlow (1141)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Hmmmm..

Which one of you on this Forum wants to see the USA fall into oblivion? ...

My best guess would be, ..NONE of You. ...

But look at how well 'Played' we ( i include myself, i'm no Saint)...are.

The Corrupt Politicians.. ( the Good Ole Boys in power since the 70's - to now)...In the Pockets of Banks and Corporations... ...

... ALL Want us to be Divided. That way, when they toss in a 'pro-choice' , or a Tax Law, or a New Interest Percent here and there ..at us, .. We jump on it like a Troll on Shyt. ...

...We are 'PLAYED' to keep these notions going. Played to keep us at each others' throats. Played to keep us from turning our attentions, and slowly our minds.. to THEM! ...

.. We are played by BS on the Pulpit, while they dont mean a dam thing they say. It's only for Show.

..We are played when they get the Media to point out their Differences in Ideas, and approaches to problems.. when in actuality, they ALL are IN on the Same Dam Thing... ...

.. We Are Played at the Polls, at the Voting Booth. Everything is rigged to nudge us to Exactly Where they always intended.. and how?

... We kept IN FIGHTING, and no One was watching THEM! ... ...

It's the OLDEST TRICK in the BOOK.

Best Way to get on Track here Fellas... It to look for our Similarities, and Forgive Each, our differences. ....

And That will only work when we grow up a bit, and realize everyone has an Anti in this Game. That Everyone has needs not met.. That Everyone is trying the Best they can in the Circumstances we find ourselves in.

.. Do that, and then see how Far we Really are able to Reach. ... ..NOT Stoop to. .. Have a wonderful Day.. ..M.

45 Comments

45 Comments


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[-] 5 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Nice post Marlow.

Yep - we got to stop playing the party game and concentrate on the issues game.

Identify good issues and their supporters and bad issues and their supporters - BUT - Do Not Stop There - We ( the People ) need to push "our" issues and not take lip service as an answer.

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

"ALL Want us to be Divided. That way, when they toss in a 'pro-choice' , or a Tax Law, or a New Interest Percent here and there ..at us, .. We jump on it like a Troll on Shyt"

NAILED IT

It's sick how much the corporate media plays into that game.

Why talk about the wars and bank fraud when they can just change the subject to something that doesn't affect them?

"Dance puppets dance!" The elite says

[-] 3 points by DanielBarton (1345) 1 year ago

Finally a post about how this idea of politics can stop most people are in the middle on issues.

No person agrees with each other 100% and never will

[-] 2 points by Marlow (1141) 1 year ago

Fact:.. Note here to Forum, the equation is not 1% of the Population vs. 99%, but that only about 400 Billionaires Control 99% of the Money.... ...

That is scandalous. It's an Outrage.. and when you have that few with that much Power.. You have a form of Insanity Running the Show.

.. Greed Breeds Insanity.. ... Same as the NUTS Running the Asylum.

... .. If you want to Change this, all you have to do is become a part of the Occupy in your City and/ or Towns. Its what the whole movement is about... and is there for US.. ALL of us who are learning what has happened to this Country, while we slept.

Occupy is a way to network for the Ethics we ALL agree are just and progressive... for examply.. DKA gave us a LINK on how to bring back Jobs ..

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

.. The more we apply ourselves in a positive effort, the more our needs matter.. and the needs of the Many .. are Met.

.. THAT's good old Fashion Democracy!

[-] 2 points by NLake72 (510) 1 year ago

Agreed. We are all here because we are angry over the same stuff, more or less. The only thing we disagree about are the solutions, but we can debate and compromise. We can find unity amongst ourselves (and, that scares the crap out of the 1%, or they wouldn't spend all this money and effort trying to divide and misinform us.

[-] 1 points by Marlow (1141) 1 year ago

Lake, Well put. TY. We very well could agree on Solutions if, we all agreed on how it got to the levels we need to repair. .. First, just in case you are not aware.. the 1% comprises only about 400 'Players' in this Collusion toward a World Government. They Control 99% of the Money..

.. So, It's Not 1% of the Population vs. 99%. It's 400 Greedy Crooks controlling the Lives of More than 99% of the population.. and that Dear People is it in an OUTRAGEOUS Nut Shell.

.. ..M

[-] 2 points by Cocreator (306) 1 year ago

Citizens Arrest Committee..We have the evidence..

[-] 1 points by Marlow (1141) 1 year ago

Thank You, Elizabeth Warren.. for backing me up on this Topic... ..M.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Now if we could only get more people to contemplate sanity and then to act on it.

[-] 1 points by Marlow (1141) 1 year ago

Ok, I know i left my point Somewhere..!? .. Not sure where it went after that .."Oh Captain, my Captain " diddly..

[-] 1 points by gsw (2727) 1 year ago

Never Give Up:

Rocky Anderson is on ballot in many states, and he praised Ows as idealistic courageous and convergent with his positions (3RD LINK) His strategy is through social media, as the egyptian s did, wants a revo. Against duopoly. If we met up in public forums, parks, and championed his candidacy, that's freedom of speech. How could that be shut down. And everyone emailed, wrote everyone they know, everyone in the phone book, but keep it optimistic, have kids there, etc pro family and worker.

http://my.firedoglake.com/jest/2012/04/01/video-rocky-anderson-forcefully-dismantles-the-logic-of-2-party-system-apologists/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKRR5_NdnLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8q2lFSvhPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJCEoRUc4B0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBtiuAiAzvE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7DSLUPRunw

http://archive.org/details/scm-48382-rockyandersonstandingupforjust

It was cool to the public when you occupied. Real not staged. For those who know in their soul the system has deep problems, it was inspiring.

Can WE occupy central park(s) and spread the message there, even if it is daily. It was cool you were out in public standing up.

It's just whole country feels conservative, cause cons keep repeative Obama is communist.

OWS was so fast, and not well covered in main media, for most part. I think it was raising awareness, especially when the police got out of line, but now it is easy for public to ignore, and for many they may believe it has faded away:((

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 1 year ago

If you really want to understand the dynamic, you have to go beyond the issue of greed and understand the nature of evil. I'm talking the biblical kind.

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

You're starting to catch on; we are being manipulated with abortions women already have, a free contraception they don't care about... Gay rights that they already own... a nonexistent slavery... free fare for people who'd rather not ride. It's all nonsense; the new boss is the same as the old boss, and government marches on to a beat all its own.

[-] 4 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

You've been down in the bilge too long. Time to come up for some air.

[-] -2 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

Aye-aye, Captain; we've traveled far, ehh?

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Hard to say looking out the porthole . . .

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Bit of a fog out there Cap'n?

[-] -2 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

It's been said the world is flat, Captain. And yet it appears we always go full circle.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Yea, that's the question... why did Washington discharge those who committed sodomy? Why did he do it, and why has the American military reenforced it? What influenced George's decision?

Plato is an interesting military case study in that pederasty as institutionalized seems to have been peculiar to the Greeks....

That's just nasty.

I wasn't aware Washington had to confront the issue. Not surprised actually - it was likely common in both Britain and France - not sure.

Certainly times have changed - I don't think that in itself is justification to shred the Constitution - something that some are intent on doing. Perhaps from both sides of the current divide.

Clearly if adults want to engage in sodomy that is their business - Preacher! leave the kids alone . . . o wait - that isn't right . . . Teacher!

So I need to add historical tradition to my list, and acknowledge the legitimate need at the origin to the debate . . .

I always operate on the assumption that I don't possess the entire sum of pertinent data . . . after all -

  • nobody tells me everything

wait - I mean, anything

[-] 1 points by gsw (2727) 1 year ago

Hi ZenDog,

Have you ever gone to your states repelican facebook page and posted some information and questions for them?

It's too fun. I just sent them this message to WA repub facebook page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Historical_median_personal_income_by_education_attainment_in_the_US.png

The rich are getting the benefits from increased productivity, at the expense of the rest.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/02/

mind-blowing-charts-senates-income-inequity-hearing Mind-Blowing Charts From the Senate's Income Inequality Hearing

http://www.justicepartyusa.org/

Suppression of unions, and greed of the oligarchs, who are the moral equivalent of greedy pigs. They just don't know better. They're insulated from society. A lot of their wealth creation was in the financial sector, but did they really produce useful products, or lucky gamblers on Wall Street.

Also, when so much is investment, not actually money earned from work, they can pay federal tax of 13.9 percent, like Romney.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I don't care for facebook.

But I have emailed several members of the Vermont State Legislature on one or two issues where . . . it seemed obvious they might benefit from my input . . .

ha haa haaa

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

It was likely common in Britain and France? That, of course, is in no way a prejudicial statement; no, definitely not. (What about the Italians?)

Yes, as institutionalized it was peculiar to the Greeks but it was not peculiar to mankind; if it had been Christianity and Islam would not have had to so adamantly set themselves against it; while it seems to have worked quite well for the aristocratic, male dominant, militaristic society, it was virtual anathema to the rising humanism of the clan or family oriented society.

What problems did it create for Washington as a commander, that's the question, and are those concerns still valid today? What influenced that decision, what were the parameters? Was it due to the prejudicial confines of family oriented society - is that prejudice the source of conflict? Or, did it actually create unrelated difficulties of command?

Male bonding... have you read Hamilton? If he hadn't discussed women so much we would get the distinct impression he was Gay, perhaps just Washington's boy. Males "bond" to create the foundation of coalition and they do this through two means: "feats" of strength and bravado and through the discussion of women. These two elements are still present in all hetero dominant military forces. So it would seem, we've imparted some minor difficulty, and difficulty weakens. It remains to be seen, just how forthright all will be relative to sexuality in the military; it remains to be seen if sexuality will find any place of habitation at all in the discipline of command.

I would like to add to this that these are not subject areas that we ordinarily openly discus, for fear of offending women. And while women have been influential to this debate, they have not been full party to the facts.

I did not celebrate the political demise of Bin Laden for fear of the martyr; he too is an enemy of command.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

response to here

not sure I know what you mean. I don't pay much attention to the glitter - I do find the messaging to be interesting, I haven't tracked back to determine who holds what views or any of that.

I have noticed an increase in sophistication regarding the advertising of the military for example - both on tv and film. Some of the shows on CBS clearly come from some basement that will never ever be tied to the Pentagon . . .

There has also been what I would call an increase in the number and sophistication of stories allegorically tied to the intense debate regarding intense debate . . . if you see what I mean . . .

From The Manchurian Candidate to The Game to Inception -

I'm sure the technology trend plotted on a graph precedes the trend found in our stories, how closely they mirror each other I can't say.

But you could be talking about something else altogether, and it may lie outside of my experience or knowledge.

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

I'm not big on conspiracy theory but I do notice content which I examine with some curiosity; Hollywood has been steering the conclusions of our social curiosities. There could be other explanations.

But that's not actually what I was talking about. What I've noticed relevant to our above discussion is that R rated movie now more often earns its rating as the result of male nudity rather than female nudity. I find it rather comical, but... in my mind, there has been some distinct change, and this too I interpret as social steering.

As for the military, despite the sophistication of advertizing, I think it's a foregone conclusion that Obama will gut it after the election; I don't fully support reductions - I want balance.

I'm not a social butterfly; I don't envision myself changing the world; I'm here only to examine and attempt to satisfy previously existing curiosities.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I'm not big on conspiracy theory

but wait, didn't you say:

?

That in my mind makes you the author - so it would be no surprise to find you aren't big on it. Although it may prove useful in providing cover . . . .

As far as spending cuts - it looks like everyone will be facing them. That is most especially true if taxation does not return to historic levels.

It might make things easier if we didn't have so much bullshit - like TrailBlazer, at a cost of 4 billion, which is nothing but an update of technology already in use - and I don't mean in the lab - Did that 4 billion go to anything useful? or did it just line the pockets of one more liar . . . .

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

yea I agree

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I've only gotten as far as some of the background behind the Federalist Papers, I haven't dug into them at length. The entire process of debate by proxy is . . . at once fascinating and yet disconcerting somehow.

I suspect that in today's military the whole question is over blown. People learn to work together, and through working together they learn respect for one another, and they learn to overcome their own prejudices and preconceptions. The presence of Injustice, especially that of institutionalized Injustice, I believe, must undermine authority.

Who is the better commander? Harold Moore? or any other commander who remains further aloof and demonstrably indifferent? What impact does this have on morale?

Command I am sure will have its preference, but in the end, where the metal meets the meat, it is the attitudes and behaviors of men like Moore who are more certain of victory - both on the battlefield and off, in garnering public support.

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

The Federalist Papers are basic to our understanding of the Constitution but we can actually learn much more through published works and the study of their personal papers. Hamilton was extremely intelligent and very articulate; he was also a bit of a character. He is the only one I might label a proxy though in that his words are supportive of his mentor.

The military doesn't often concern itself with injustice; the creation of a killing machine, that must ultimately be sent off to do or die, leaves little room for sentimentality. Is the issue overblown? Yes and no... any sexual relationship, hetero or otherwise, undermines command discipline - it has the potential to create internal conflict, incite schism, and even undermine authority if the result is an unmerited favored status. There is also the issue of male bonding, its effect on small-unit cohesiveness, which ultimately is vital to survival through success, and the command control of a testosterone and adrenaline fueled, vengeful, hate driven, unit of armed killers.

Colin Powell once said that men do not like to shower with men who like to shower with men (words to that effect) - in this environment, this is an understatement.

Is the better commander aloof and indifferent? Not generally; was this the command presence of Harold Moore? I don't know, he was before my time and I haven't read his book (which I just Googled) but I do now know that he successfully commanded lives.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Colin Powell once said that men do not like to shower with men who like to shower with men (words to that effect) - in this environment, this is an understatement.

How long had it been since the General had showered with other men when he made that statement? I have no doubt it is true - but only to an extent and only under specific circumstances. Once the question of survival becomes concrete, the issue of individual preference takes on a minor priority. Skill and courage are what matter.

Isn't that what boot camp is for? To determine who has skill? Who has courage? To forge that bond that knows no restraint on the basis of human differences of preference or color?

It sounds like command sees the issue, but not the solution. Harsh and unjust treatment by command toward one who is and has been proven to be capable will undermine command authority.

To my mind, Moore marks a divide, between the men and command - and between commanders. McNamara wanted Moore out of the battle at Ia Drang. I think the order came on the second day of battle. There was a very real possibility the American position would be over run, the loss of Moore would have been an embarrassment.

The order was refused. The order was not based on military necessity, but rather political consideration. His refusal of that order in all likelihood saved American lives, as well as the feared political embarrassment.

It may be this refusal to obey is why you have not heard of him until now - but that can be only part of the explanation since the book has been turned into a movie. Where were you in 2002 . . .

The book does provide a better examination of the political issues, both with respect to the call up of the Air Cav, and lessons learned at Ia Drang - but not by much. It reads like after action reports - no doubt much of the material is based on them - the book also touches briefly on some of the issues - difficulties - faced by the survivors of the "lost patrol" - a subject I don't recall the movie addresses at all. I think there may have only been two - one a medic, and he apparently didn't take it well.

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

I find it hard to believe I didn't see this movie but it's possible; I definitely haven't read the book.

Boot camp is just a preliminary; it's intent is to emotionally break them free of all the negativity acquired in the course of the soft life; in the process of living together, learning about each other, sharing adversity together, there is a bond that is developed. But this is not the bond of fighting units, this is only a preliminary staging. From there they go on to specialized training and eventually a specialized unit where they will be provided with a command structure and more training. In modern warfare, only those that train together, fight together, because the cohesive bond has been deemed vital to success. This is wholly different to the Vietnam experience.

I can't comment on Colin Powell's personal experience but I can tell you I've personally witnessed soldiers beat within moments of their lives in the showers. On that level, I can relate.

We here peer through vantage of wisdom, the nineteen year old does not - societal norms of civility do not apply, especially in infantry or attached divisions which, incidentally, are not particularly renowned in the all volunteer army for their intellectual capability. And it's nice to create this fanciful vision of working and learning and playing together but none of this occurs - they train together, they prepare together, they verbally interact in a communal environment, in many cases for the first time in their lives, and they develop a pecking order. How this precisely occurs is a matter worthy of our study and consideration. But rank structure, too, by its very nature is wholly opposed to visions of equality and social justice - there is only one way and it's the UCMJ.

Similar events occur in the para-military organization; today all law enforcement agencies are in effect modeled on concepts of the para-military organization.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

oo common. Admit it. You just don't like Mel Gibson. Or you don't like Hollywood. Or Hal Moore. It has to be . . . because the only other possibility is simply too disturbing to consider . . .

. . . Where were you in 2002 . . .

.



.

EDIT

of course, you might not like those kind of movies. That could explain it.

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

Mel Gibson was in this movie and I missed it? That can't be, that just can't be. I honestly (but honestly, I rarely ever, ever, tell a huge whopper - honestly, really) - I really don't recall, at all.

Where was I in 2002? I can't remember being ten years younger, it seems I've always been exactly as I am. Life is such a blur...

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Life is such a blur...

Yes it is.

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

By the way, I've noticed some recent changes in Hollywood relevant to our discussion here, perhaps you've noticed them, too..

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Really? Have we gone full circle?

All I know for sure is the porthole looks different.

The heaving sea kinda looks the same.

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

Aye, Cap'n, the porthole looks different - and look, thar she is - I guess we'll call her "Progress."

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

seems a funny word for it - but I guess it'll have to do

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

We've been calling the different "Progress" since time immemorial; in reality it is little more than a new porthole to the very same, heaving sea.

And this is why, we shall call you, "Cap'n."

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

just as long as you don't call me late for dinner

I just hate a cold dinner

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

They say mushrooms are the poor man's white meat, is that true?

Speaking of white, is Sauvignon ok?

I swear if I wasn't so straight, I'd be gay.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I don't know what to make of that. I don't like shrooms myself, though I've eaten more than a few . . . I admit I can be a bit of a savage, that is true - but I don't drink, and haven't for some time . . .

I did applaud the repeal of don't ask don't tell, though it really isn't my thing . . .

and I did applaud the end of bin Laden - o Heavens! - but it is true, I cheered . . .

.

perhaps it's just what it appears - the start of a poem? Could be.

Interesting beginning. Looks like a monologue. It may be interesting to see how futher lines embellish the white space that currently exists around these three spare lines . . .

[-] -1 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

Consider that there are two issues regarding our now Gay military; the first is hetero response, the second is the dynamic of sexuality itself.

There are historical questions that arise... why were they denied in the first place, and why so adamantly denied in the second?

Consider that history can't be examined accurately in hindsight; we must journey to the beginning and look forward into the future of our past.

Those lines of mine...

All prose is poetry... and all the world is metaphor; for?

To what effect or extent, if any, has the death of Bin Laden contributed to martyrdom? To what extent his influence in the absence of martyrdom? Where are the martyrs? Why has the media shut us so completely from events of the Middle East? Who do they really work for?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

And I have occasionally wondered where funding for certain broadcasts may originate - but it doesn't really matter, does it? If the funding came from Latvia, who is to say whether it came from Mitt or Mikhail, the result is the same.

I dunno. Who does anybody work for . . .

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20541) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago
  • why were they denied in the first place

umm - rigid thinking, ignorance, fear, and possibly some denial

  • why so adamantly denied in the second?

Same answer

  • Consider that history can't be examined accurately in hindsight; we must journey to the beginning and look forward into the future of our past.

common - I tried to get through Plato, but it didn't have pictures . . . can't I please use google maps?

.

.

all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts, His acts being seven ages. At first the infant, Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms. And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel And shining morning face, creeping like snail Unwillingly to school. And then the lover, Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier, Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard, Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel, Seeking the bubble reputation Even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice, In fair round belly with good capon lined, With eyes severe and beard of formal cut, Full of wise saws and modern instances; And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts Into the lean and slipper'd pantaloon, With spectacles on nose and pouch on side, His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice, Turning again toward childish treble, pipes And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all, That ends this strange eventful history, Is second childishness and mere oblivion, Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

.

[-] 0 points by funkytown (-374) 1 year ago

Yea, that's the question... why did Washington discharge those who committed sodomy? Why did he do it, and why has the American military reenforced it? What influenced George's decision?

Plato is an interesting military case study in that pederasty as institutionalized seems to have been peculiar to the Greeks....