Forum Post: Where do criminals get their guns?
Posted 11 years ago on Jan. 24, 2013, 7:34 p.m. EST by brightonsage
(4494)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, will report data from a 2004 survey of inmates in state prisons in a chapter in a book titled “Reducing Gun Violence in America,” to be published Jan. 28 by Johns Hopkins Press.
The offenders were incarcerated from crimes committed with handguns, and this is how they reported how they obtained the guns:
Licensed gun dealer: 11 percent
Friends or family: 39.5 percent
“The street:” 37.5 percent
Stolen gun: 9.9 percent
Gun show/Flea market: 1.7 percent
In other words, only a relatively small percentage was purchased from licensed dealers. Obama’s proposal on universal background checks, however, allows for “limited, common-sense exceptions for cases like certain transfers between family members and temporary transfers for hunting and sporting purposes.”
So the last three sources should be addressed and at least some of the "Friends or family" category.
Maybe this should have been, "How guns get their criminals?"
Matt Taibbi usually gets it right.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/conservatives-have-their-worst-week-ever-20130123
And he did it again.
Natch'
Obviously, we can add some categories together. So we agree.
Friends or family: 39.5 percent
“The street:” 37.5 percent
Stolen gun: 9.9 percent
Total From Illegal Sources = 86.9 Percent (2 standard Deviations) are from Illegal Sources.
You have to add family and friends in since they know the man/woman has already been in trouble or has been in a gang or in gang trouble.... I'm not a policeman, but buying stuff off the street is pretty clearly an illegal purchase if it is used in a crime. Private citizens can sell guns to each other, but if the seller has a criminal history, has sold guns to criminals, or dosen't care if the buyer is a criminal... sounds illegal to me. But you might want to throw out part of the "street Sales as Legal". Probably the end result is 60% of the guns used in Crimes we would all agree are illegal sales.
That is how I see it. The family transactions will take place and after a crime is committed and the gun is traced back the family can be together again, in jail.
As public awareness of this grows, family members won't be so ready to give that shiftless druggie Eddie that pistol.
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THOSE WHO CAN – DO
THOSE WHO CAN’T - RANT
YOU CAN DO:
1►
learn as much as you can about the numbers that prove what the solutions are
2►
demand a plan:
http://www.youtube.com/user/maigcoalition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za8SOVuGHs&list=UUu4Q7iE0z1Jw7yUjs56dvXA&index=1
alex jones – without his straight jacket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg&feature=endscreen&NR=1
multi-millionaire gun manufacturer wayne lapierre who works for koch brothers & gets paid over $1,000,000 / year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dar6K2STVVQ
3►
WRITE CONGRESS:
find your congresspeople
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Dear ............................:
[ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E ]
While some people may want to confiscate guns, I don’t.
Here is a much more feasible, practical, logical approach.
It will not solve all gun problems, but it will
reduce the number of guns
and will
reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns
and isn't THAT our real goal?
My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between
cars & guns.
Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America
with our 11,000+ gun disasters:
1►
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.
2►
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.
3►
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.
4►
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police
additionally -
============================================================
Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:
VERY IMPORTANT:
The 1994 gun "ban" did NOT ban assault weapons.
It banned the MANUFACTURE of assault weapons.
Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: England.…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: France….: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides Per 100,000
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/rft-annual-trend-and-demographic-tables-2011-12.xls
The above link is to England police statistics - see table D19
Is the nra & its trolls claiming that we will fail, where England & Australia succeeded in reducing gun deaths substantially by legislation?
Did England ban violence in movies?
Statistics clearly prove that the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.
More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.
When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.
In 2011, there were 11,000+ gun homicides in America
In 2011, there were 35 gun deaths in England
For 2011, the average Murder Rate in Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9
Scalia - yes that Scalia - has stated the AR15s are NOT “protected” by Article 2 and that government can regulate them
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said that there are "undoubtedly" limits to a person's right to bear arms under the Second Amendment, but that future court cases will have to decide where to draw the line. That link could be between you and an bushmaster.
During an appearance on "Fox News Sunday," Scalia was asked whether lawmakers have the right to ban high-capacity gun magazines without violating a person's constitutional right to bear arms. "We'll see," Scalia said, suggesting that future court cases will determine what limitations on modern-day weapons are permissible.
"Some limitations undoubtedly are permissible because there were some that were acknowledged at the time" the Constitution was written, Scalia said. He cited a practice from that era known as "frighting," where people "carried around a really horrible weapon just to scare people. That was, I believe, a misdemeanor."
"So yes, there are some limitations that can be imposed," Scalia said. "What they are will depend on what the society understood were reasonable limitations at the time."
The conservative justice notably authored the Supreme Court's 2008 opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, which ruled that the Second Amendment protects a person's right to bear arms. The court ruled that "the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited."
Scalia pointed out that that the Second Amendment "obviously" doesn't apply to weapons that can't be hand-carried, and modern-day weapons like "hand-held rocket launchers that can bring down airplanes" weren't factored in at the time of the writing of the Constitution.
"My starting point and probably my ending point will be what limitations are within the understood limitations that the society had at the time," he said. "They had some limitations on the nature of arms that could be borne. So we'll see what those limitations are as applied to modern weapons."
I don't know how much extra credit I am allowed to give you, but the meter is pegged.
On another post I suggested the need for a "fear index meter." Then ask two questions: "Do you fear a person with a gun/' And, "Do you fear a person without a gun?" Which number is higher? Do you fear men in white coats? Here the come.
Many criminals in DC get their guns from states with weak gun laws - like VA
The state with the most gun crime has the weakest gun laws LA
Any surprise these are confederate states?
Blood is red. The South will writhe again.
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Oh yeah, the guys selling guns in paper bags are surely gonna comply with background checks.
Extending background checks is in effect registration since it can safely be assumed the FBI has been ignoring the law on not retaining bg check info for the last 20 years. They have refused to answer Senators that have asked and various FOIA requests,
Registration is a necessary first step to confiscation.
And registration is quite Constitutional. Good idea. Thanks.
Not really interested in confiscation but if you insist.....
Remember how we eliminated much of the mob (mafia) rule in this country? Tax evasion. Law breakers go to jail. This way, after the cops shoot the perp with the gun they go to the person the gun came from. You get rid of a perp and an idiot. It's a two fer.
You believe it's alright to suspend the Constitutional rights of all Americans to supposedly catch a few "law breakers".
You must live in a vacuum of your own ignorance.
No, I think a lot of progress can be made, in spite of the misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the Constitution by Scalia et al. Even they left reasonable regulation intact. No suspension required. There is plenty of fresh air out here. Fewer echos than in that stuffy Faux chamber. Come on out.
"progress" is just Leftist propaganda for destroying the Founder's America and that old stale,wrinkly outdated piece of paper called the Constitution (which is living and breathing of course,..right?).
You're just a tool of tyranny and despotism.
I understand history, my family wrote it. They were the founders fathers and grand fathers. The Constitution as had a few amendments, as I recall. Even the Magna Carts was changed. and some of our current SC justices testified under oath about their commitment to "Stare Decisis", what is called settled law and as soon as they were in office, they violated that testimony and changed the settled law by SC over ride. Must be living and breathing, right? I guess we are both tools then.
Actually no. I believe in the right to keep and bear arms. You however want to take that right away.
See,you're a Tool,just not the sharpest one in the Leftist propaganda shed.
Once the right to keep and bear arms are put asunder by your pals the Democrats and Leftist's in Washington every other Constitutional right will fall and tyranny will rule.
You may LOL and dismiss this,but this IS how free people become subjugated by tyranny.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."
Ronald Reagan.
Wake up.
I particularly liked, "Bedtime for Bonzo." BTW he urged the passage of the Brady Bill. He said a lot oif interesting things the right wing would like to forget.
I would expect nothing less from a low information voter.
It's "nothing more"
We can trace vehicles used in a crime, hit and run, robberies, mass murders, why shouldn't we trace guns? If the founders were so omniscient and if their intention in the 2nd amendment was so that there would be a successful "next revolution," why wouldn't they have included "vehicles," they being so essential to successful revolutionaries? Then we wouldn't have license plates or registration?
"Registration is a necessary first step to confiscation."
I'm glad there's another sane voice on this site for a change.
"A gun is a necessary first step to gun violence." Got any more of these original haikus?
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Are you really that dumb or are you just pretending?
If you're trying to be clever,better give it up cause you're a low information Djobama Unchained voter and intelligent consideration isn't your forte.
What is said in my little haiku is true. And it came from my own head. What is said in the one you borrowed is not. Who is dumb? What is that in parrot IQ?
I don't "borrow" haiku's,...wtf??? Wtf are you talking about???
Is this where you start disintegrating into Leftist babble and become unintelligible??
Conservatrol used in in the first post you responded to. I am sure he didn't originate it either, since something similar was used in Congressional testimony by Morgan in 1975.
Read your script.
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And the disintegration begins.
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Gun control isnt about guns, it's about control. An unarmed society cannot fight a totalitarian govt.
I belive you are 100% correct.
Your are worrying about the wrong threat. This won't be a totalitarian government until the Tea Party takes control. Ain't gonna happen.
Tell that to Japanese Americans in 1940. Or have they taken that little episode out of the history books since it was done by that leftist idol FDR? It not only CAN happen, it HAS happened and it most certainly will not be wrought by a grassroots group of people that are tired of wasteful govt spending. And no, I am NOT talking about welfare. I would sure like to see a detailed accounting of every federal agency;s spending. Expense accts and office furniture, etc, not to mention extremely generous benefit pkgs, the likes not seen by the working man, but paid for by him.
BitterClinger? Wow, Must be a Neo-con!!!
And if you would have had your AR, you would have kept the government from putting the Nisei in the camps? Suuuure. And your tinfoil helmet.
Typical Alinsky tactic. Atrempt to ridicule an opposing point of view when you really cannot defend your own. After 4 years of Obama leaning on that tactic, not to mention it's overuse one this forum, I am getting tired of it. Speaking of that, what has become of VQag?
Were, or were not the internment camps created for Japanese Americans an example of unconstitutional govt oppression, or not?
And I see you cannot back up your dispargement of the Tea Party.
Yes and committing torture was an un Constitutional government act. And listening to your every phone call, email and text message, without a warrant ism as well, I don't agree with those either. And you haven't quite stopped those have you? The Tea Party has been documented as Koch mercenaries. No further comment necessary
BitterClinger,...wished I thought of that.
" what has become of VQag?"
Good question but,...does anybody really care??
LOL!!
if the ows people do not talk about fdr ( the idol of the dems) arresting americans of japanese and german descent and putting them in internment camps in the usa, it didnt happen.
You already voted for your "totalitarian" government. And now you've got it.
Despot's confiscate guns,that's just what your Djobama Unchained is in the process of doing. Or haven't you been paying attention? Put down the bong will ya?
The "TEA Party" will be the savior of this country.
You're clueless.
Go back to work on your secession plans. Don't forget the other red states.
If we could get rid of the Koch party, it would be a better world.
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Good thing you low information voters have your head in the sand and can maintain a long term condition of denial. You're going to need it.
And I forgot my tin foil hat. It will ruin my coiffure. Paranoia is a treatable condition, BTW.
"Paranoia is a treatable condition, BTW."
You should consider that,...based upon your ranting about the TEA Party.
It is pure astroturf plus what the Koch's mentor (and I knew him) called "dupes." Dupes are those who join a cause that benefits someone else who is actually exploiting them.
Well based on your description,....I guess you didn't know this, ...but you're an Obama Dupe.
How does it feel??
You're an Obama Dupe,Tool,Shill and loyal Drone.... this must be your real talent after all.
Why don't you try defending your "Precious",that might prove even more entertaining.
Defending that which needs no defense? Good Sir, "at the length the truth will out."
From Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice, 1596:
Shake-a-spear was a Leftist Brit..who gives a shit,....4+yrs later and Obama's truth IS out and defending him will wear thin on even the most caustic Liberal out there.
But low information voters like you are continually fooled by the propaganda that spews from your MSN,DailyKos,Media Matters,Huffington,Democracy Now and whatever anti-freedom/pro-Government mouthpiece you kneel to.
You seem to see everything through a left-right lens, so you can flip to the response dictated by the intellectuals at Faux snooze Sure saves on thinking..
Shakespeare a leftest? (Hadn't been invented.) But he killed people left and right. You must have loved those parts?
Left and right has always existed. Certainly not called left or right. but the notion that we should help each other (left) has existed since we lived in caves just as the concept that "I got mine, if you don't tough on you" (right) as well. I think during Shakespears time the left ideology was not in practice anywhere of note. But since the early 20th century we have seen the rise of the left. Occupy represents a rebirth in America of that ideology. Let's hope we succeed.
I agree. My point was that nobody was self identifying as left or right. If I am not mistaken it may have been the French. Blame it on them anyway.
And the disintegration continues. Very predictable.
Long live disintegration.
Rejoice in your ignorance and revel in your darkness.
The TEA party believes in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. Obama administration does not.They ( obama & co.) are the totalitarians.
Ofter they cherry pick it, and misinterpret it. Check the polls for the "Consent of the governed." There was an election. Define "totalitarian"".
centralized control by an autocratic leader ( obama is doing his best to achieve that) There was an " election" in the sense that an election was held, but the outcome was nevr in doubt by the obama machine. scytl.
There was this guy called Bush....
he isnt the president. obama is
That comment was regarding autocracy. And that you lost more rights then than you have since. Some were lost through Patriot Act etc., but many more through the unprecedented use of signing statements (the equivalent of decrees not legislation.) In March 2009, the New York Times cited a different metric, the number of sections within bills that were challenged in signing statements:
LMAO,if we're to actually take you serious and believe you we would have to suspend all reality and believe that the last four years was all Bush's fault.
Obama had nothing to do with sustaining over 7-8+% unemployment rates,prolonging recession/high gas/energy prices and increasing the debt to over $16 trillion in less then 3 yrs. while delivering by force the single largest,most unpopular Government welfare and control system program ever in the disguise of an "Affordable Care Act".
It must be Bush's fault that Obama and the Democrats now are going to subvert the Constitution and disembowel the 2nd Amendment by force while attempting a national gun confiscation also,...right??
You are a low information voter and you must be mentally ill as well.
You forgot your cousins who control govnt by theft--The repub congress hacks.
The people should of kicked their butts long ago. Now the people are waking up.
We're givin a choice of 2 least offensive corporate goons-- not the best system available
Obama was the best the "opposition" put up under the system. Most should be impeached.
That's a pendulum swing of the electorate ..and it's going to the left.
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The point is that you lost more rights under Bush than you have since. Google Bush executive orders and signing statements
In March 2009, the New York Times cited a different metric, the number of sections within bills that were challenged in signing statements:
"Mr. Bush ... broke all records, using signing statements to challenge about 1,200 sections of bills over his eight years in office, about twice the number challenged by all previous presidents combined, according to data compiled by Christopher Kelley, a political science professor at Miami University in Ohio.
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Do you need other people to define words for you now as well??
What you are referring to is so far back I can't determine what you are referring to?
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No they don't.
Teabagge(R)s raised my taxes and instituted tyranny here in Michigan.
They are liars of a most insidious sort.
Please be specific, which ( who) TEA party people raised your taxes? Please explain " instituted tyranny".
Please do your own research.
It's really not that hard.
Just type Michigan into the search box here on the forum.
you made the statement, you back it up.
Usurping duly elected officials is tyranny.
You just refuse to notice.
there was an " election" to keep the vast majority of people quiet , but there never really was an election. all for show. scytl.
So the country should be run by self appointed teabagge(R)s?
Making sense isn't your strong point is it?
koch loves the tea-party.
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And an armed society is a polite society.
More name calling on this site in support of guns than anything else except antiabortion. Isn't polite like civil?
Got to hand it to you, brightonsage, I would have torched these Zombies way back there. But is debunking BS of "this caliber" of any use? They are completely hopeless [dittoheads] and anyone in agreement is too.
I'd just present the facts in question regarding all these people getting shot by all these God Damn guns we have here (50% of the worlds guns for only 5% of the world's population ~ DUH, What could possibly go wrong?):
Gun Violence - U.S. vs The World
How bad is America's gun violence problem? Worse than many other nations - combined. [Wake the fucking hell UP!!]
One of the more disgusting myths the no-regulation, [No Government, Frightened, Misguided, Hillbilly Taliban, Teabagistanner] pro-gun extremists keep lamely attempting to use as a defense of their indefensible position is that gun violence in America isn't THAT bad, when compared to other countries.
Thankfully, Richard Florida and the team at The Atlantic magazine decided to debunk that extremist blather, and post the results on the map below:
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2013/01/gun-violence-us-cities-compared-deadliest-nations-world/4412/
Bottom Line: We The People's right to life TRUMPS their gun fetish. PERIOD!!
Well said. But don't you know that the good guys aren't allowed to speak passionately? Sheriffs are ready to make the law before anything is introduced.
I should, if you're talking about "Hall Monitors."
But then there is this:
The Latest Mass Shooting Occurred While the Senate Was Debating What To Do About Guns
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/01/30/arizona_shooting_five_wounded_during_office_shooting_spree_at_same_time.html
La Pierre claimed to be representing 4.5 million NRA members, However, 80% of them support universal background checks. So who was he really representing? Gun manufacturers, of course.
Yet the gun nuts believe he is defending their god given rights.
As always with the Reich Wing/GOP just follow the money.
also:
The gun is the physical manifestation of diseased and insidious RW "individualist," anti-government imprinting. The poison pill -- the inanimate Manchurian Candidate -- of and for divide and conquer.
Maybe we should require all gun nuts to wear special clothing. Yellow vests perhaps? That way they would know whom to shoot first? What is the color of cowardice?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/insane-america-meets-sane-america-over-gun-control/
[-] 1 points by KevinPotts (223) 20 hours ago
"I've got one that can see!"
( 5:37 - 7:04 )
Greatest Scenes In Film: THEY LIVE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inZUDMGJsKo
OR In Other Words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5nQIeU1iG4
More like the pot calling the kettle black.
Feinsteins gun control bill exempts govt " officials. "
Never a truer statement has been made,thanks.