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Forum Post: When One Party is Down Right Dispicable, What is Left Has no Need to be Courageous: "A plague-on-both-parties"

Posted 10 months ago on Nov. 1, 2013, 12:51 p.m. EST by JesseHeffran (3903)
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41 Comments

41 Comments


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[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20721) 10 months ago

"Everywhere too, the Left, what there still is of it, has made peace with the capitalist order. Whatever Left parties and unions may once have been, they are all Democrats now — or might as well be. Like Democrats, they aspire only to defend advances won long ago.

But history works in strange ways; unforeseeable circumstances sometimes arise as if out of nowhere.

This is happening now in the United States where both major parties are actively undermining what little popular support they still enjoy. Our duopoly system is not yet in a crisis phase, but a crisis does seem at hand."

There is hope.....

[-] 1 points by HCHC4 (-28) 10 months ago

Its going to take people like those of us that see the massive levels of corruption to be louder than the defenders of corruption.

Shake the people from their slumber!!

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20721) 10 months ago

I think defining corruption is important, too. So, therefore, things can be legal yet still corrupt in my mind. Morality should always supersede the law. Many defend what is "legal" yet it is still corrupt.

And, downvoted again, for what? Ridiculous!

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[-] 0 points by Narley (280) 10 months ago

I just don’t care anymore. Does anyone really think we can vote our way out of a corrupt government? I think it’s naive to think either party is will work for the people. I don’t believe change will come from our politicians. Real change will come from the people when conditions and circumstances force their hand and they have no alternative but to rise up.

Sorry, maybe I’m a cynic, but I don’t think it matters which party is in power. Nothing will change until the people change. OWS may very well be the start of people changing, but the changes we seek will probably take at least a generation or two. Old mindsets are almost impossible to change. It will take a new generation to change the way pwople think.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20721) 10 months ago

"Real change will come from the people when conditions and circumstances force their hand and they have no alternative but to rise up."

This is a very true statement, but so long as there is a debtor culture and people can survive by borrowing we likely won't see much action by the people, I agree. A very apathetic bunch, the American people, however, this debtor society cannot go on forever. People can only take on so much debt.

And, I do agree that OWS has just planted the seeds for what may take decades to get to fruition. Revolutions take a long time so be patient and try to have hope.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

No, Narley. It's time for you to get your diving gear on and go get your guns.

Heh.

[-] 1 points by Narley (280) 10 months ago

?? What are you talking about? As far as I know I don't have to support either party to post here.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Real change will come from the people when conditions and circumstances force their hand and they have no alternative but to rise up.


No, Narley. It's time for you to get your diving gear on and go get your guns.

Heh.

[-] 0 points by Narley (280) 10 months ago

OK, I think I got it now. You seem to think I'm saying people will take up arms against the government or powers0that be. That's not what I meant at all. I meant people will become more involved, that's all.

For the record I'm non-violent. Violence almost always just makes things worse.

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Yes, you're violent. Give it up, Narley.

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[-] -1 points by Narley (280) 10 months ago

No I'm not. The only time violence is acceptable is when defending yourself or others. Violence to further any social or political agenda is wrong and almost always fails.

Why would you think I'm violent?

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Why would you lie about where your guns were? Why would you lie about being a liberal when you are clearly not? Why? Why would you lie about anything, Narley? Why?

Why do you hate homeless people, Narley?

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[-] 0 points by Narley (280) 10 months ago

If I have to lie to the authorities to prevent my guns from being confiscated I will do it. Milli ions of Americans will do the same thing if they have to. I don't trust the government any more than you do.

I am liberal, but apparently not liberal enough for you.

Why would you accuse me of hating homeless people? You seem to make a lot of assumptions.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

You lie about a lot stuff already, so that's no surprise.

You're about as liberal as Perry.

[-] 0 points by Narley (280) 10 months ago

Sorry, I don't lie about many things. Just because you don't like my views doesn't mean it's not the truth. I am political liberal.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

And what is that exactly?

A libe(R)tarian.

Hedging on the truth, is the same as a lie.

Just like you lie about Detroit and unions.

Just like you ignore certain realities in Texas.

If you were anywhere near a liberal as you claim, you too would be up in arms about what's happened in Michigan.

But you're not.

You endorse it.

That's another hedging lie.

[-] 0 points by Narley (280) 10 months ago

I don't endorse what has happened to Detroit. I don't care what happens in Detroit. It's just another failed city. That's not a lie. It really is a failed city that will not recover. You deny the truth when it looks you square in the face. Detroit will never recover, Never!

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

See. That's what I mean.

You're a liar.

You've already stated that you have no qualms whatsoever about lying for hunks of metal.

So why should I believe you don't lie about everything else.

Give me one good reason.

You just don't give a fuck........

And really aren't very honest about that.

Now you want to talk about Rand's, Maddow induced meltdown?

I have yet to meet a libe(R)tarian that isn't liar. It seems to go with the territory.

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[-] 3 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 10 months ago

For anyone to think that our two party system is not a duopoly is beyond me.

Thanks Jesse, good post.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 10 months ago

I believe both parties serve monied interests, but at the same time I believe the two parties still compete with one another. To say they are cooperating, goes against what I see with my own eyes. It's just sad that when it comes to appeasing the rich and expanding the American empire they see eye to eye. It's the lust for power and control that the two parties compete with one another. After being totally disillusioned by Obama's administration, I almost want to see the Republicans retain the House. Not because they have my interests at heart, but because they do such a good job at keeping Obama in check, balancing his aspiration to reach a grand bargain. Any thoughts on that?

[-] 1 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 10 months ago

I agree with you that "both parties serve [big] monied interests..," but that they do "compete" with each other on legitimate differences (to them) on social issues. But mostly it's for the sake of political theatre with the objective for the most part being to make us believe that we have a well-functioning democracy....when we don't. Edit; This dynamic also serves the purpose of keeping us busy while the plutocrats plunder us in a multitude of ways.

I cannot say that I would "want to see the Republicans retain the House." While there has been much ballyhooing about Obama being a left-winger or even a socialist, he is hardly either of those things, nor are the overwhelming number of Democrats in Congress. Instead they are quite far to the right of the vast number of Democrats a couple generations ago, and they are even to the right of many Republicans of that time too. So no I do not think it should be our goal to keep Obama or the Democrats "in check" by seeing the Republicans retain control of the House. It's him and the rest of 'em breaking out of that corrupt, corporate and banking "check" is what most of us want. And so far with all the initiatives that have been inspired by Occupy working and pressuring from outside the political sewer, it's working out nicely although not near as quickly as most of us want.

It took a Democratic President who promised so much and who delivered so little to open so many people's eyes, and for the birth of Occupy to happen. It was a major awakening for many of us, including me. So perhaps, although I would much rather like to see the emergence of a third party, nothing would cause a cataclysmic, epiphany-like rousing of the people than to have both Houses and the executive office being all controlled by the Democrats, while they continue to pursue their neoliberal agenda... There would no believable excuses then. If that would not do the trick, nothing probably would.

[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 10 months ago

That's an interesting thought. Having the Democrats control all levers of power and seeing them still stick it to the majority of the population, will be the jolt needed to wake people up. Maybe then, even Shooz will see the light, lol. After witnessing the Democrats continue their rightward march, maybe moderate Conservatives will realize they have a party to defect to, hastening the demise of the Republicans. Awh, one can dream. It would be nice to see the Democrats no longer able to blame Republican obstructionism for their inability to help the majority of Americans.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

the democrats had both house when Obama came into office

the "power" was squandered then

[-] 1 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 10 months ago

In contrast, during the W years, the Republicans had a slim majority in the House for 7 of the 8 years of his Presidency.

And the Senate was evenly divided, 50-50 and then 49-49-2.

And look at how "the power.... [wasn't] squandered" then....well not if you were a big banker or corporate exec...anyway.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 months ago

they all for war

[-] 2 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 10 months ago

Yes many of our politicians from both parties are war mongers.

[-] 0 points by HCHC4 (-28) 10 months ago

Not allowing either to blame the other would be the end of duopoly.

Until then, this is what we look like to outside countries:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpHbwGRhf4A

[-] -1 points by prospector22 (185) from Brooklyn, NY 10 months ago

You reworded my thoughts, and added to them very well. Having a Democratic President while this nefarious agenda carried on is what provided the "jolt" that changed the course of thinking and hopefully our history in this country. I do not think that the majority of the Democrat propagators on here would "see the light" though. Thanks for the good discussion.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

There is no duopoly. So I guess I'm way beyond you.

I live in a State that disproves it at every turn.

Which one do you live in?

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[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Come on, Shooz. The name of the game is for all of these Koch whores to come out and say the same shit.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

They did all show up all of a sudden like, didn't they?

I wonder if they signed the petition?

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/11/02/bernie-sanders-blows-ted-cruz-500000-sign-social-security-petition-days.html

Duopoly my ass.

It's been all teagge(R)ing (R)epelican'ts in Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Texas, Florida and all the rest.

They just fail to notice, even managing to find articles that also so fail to notice. Even so far as failing to notice ALEC, the Koch's, FLAKESnews and all the rest.

It's amazing the convolutions and levels of reality that have to be ignored to pretend it's real.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Yes, they did. Of course they didn't. It's all a bunch of pseudo intellectual shit that says nothing and goes nowhere.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Could it be the precursor to their "put down the vote" drive?

It cracks me up, how in one post a "user" will be bitching about how few people vote and in the next, they're bitching about who they vote for.

Confusion is either their weapon of "choice", or the state of their mind.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Well, if they run around and claim that this is all in the name of the Green Party then they can make the Green Party look like jackoffs. Of course, libertopians at heart this fucker is determined that if you aren't going right wing then you shouldn't go.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 months ago

Or it's meant as a mask for all the issues being found with the current GOP/teabagge(R) anti voting drive, where even "powerful" people are having trouble registering.............

What's that really mean for the little guy or gal?

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Levine is a blowhard. Really.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 10 months ago

I can't say I'm familiar with any of his other writings, but I thought the article I posted was good analysis. What do find offensive about the author?

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

He doesn't say anything.

Twenty years ago I was a die hard fan of Counter Punch. They don't have shit anymore.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 10 months ago

Really? I've been reading a lot of Counterpunch's articles lately and been pleasantly pleased with what I've been reading. The fact that most of the articles are sourced make them a little more authoritative than your average opinion pieces, IMO. What sites would you suggest for better analysis?

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Or you just wanted anyone to put something in print that said your magic little words? Ya? Somebody said duopoly and you just fell out.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 10 months ago

Actually, you should probably dig into their sources...........heavily. I think you are going to be in for a surprise.

Secondly, why are you so desperate to find someone's analysis?
Can't do it on your own?