Forum Post: When does occupy movement wake the fook up?
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 12:51 a.m. EST by gawdoftruth
(3698)
from Santa Barbara, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
"Nearly everybody, especially folks over 40, is convinced that if OWS doesn't follow its advice it will sooner or later be doomed. Fair enough. The important thing is in the meantime. Hope on and enjoy the ride. Feel free to give advice, but keep an open mind and listen to others and don't be too disappointed when people choose not to follow your advice.
As for the intellectual development of OWS, it is the most intellectual social movement I've seen in my lifetime, going back to 1964. The student movement of the 1960s was in many respects anti-intellectual. Not OWS. Every occupation I've seen has a superb library. And the initiators of the movement are extremely articulate and are considerably influenced by the intellectual traditions of anarchism."
er. there is nothing intellectual about anarchism. there is nothing intellectual about assorted forums which exist in essence for the express purpose of dumbing down the conversation. The difference between me and anybody over 40 is that first, i'm only 39, and second, I have tons of actual hard science knowledge by the busload, So I know what i am talking about and most of them don't. I'm not concerned about ows being doomed, i am concerned about it failing to bring about real change inside of a realistic time scale. Civilization is running down, we could have a revolution in two months if everyone gets their head out of their ass... or we could have protests in the streets as civilization collapses and then civilization collapses.
its not ows thats doomed. its this civilization. The only option is to change and have a civilized civilization, which we don't have.
ows is an alternative to human extinction. Under such conditions, its hardly meaningful to imagine ows being doomed- its just one human institution and EVERY human institution is doomed unless a REAL revolution happens.
I was born in 1971, So i can't speak to previous and mostly failed social movements.
I can speak to the current situation, given a lens of understanding from game theory, systems theory, sociology, political science, Civil Engineering, formal conversational logic, and etc.
Again, simply put, either get on the wiki and start being part of the solution, or stay here and continue to be part of the problem.
I have answered your question, 3 or 5 times, and apparently its not good enough for you- i think mostly because you just didn't actually READ the link.
Well, as soon as you stop gaming and playing and telling me you have read stuff you haven't, and as soon as you read and grok that bit, things can change- at least for you. If you had some hope of a million person effort to evolve ows... I'm sorry. Its up to the lucid and awake people to create those doors and set it all into motion. Your not helping, you are one of the best examples i can think of for why it stalls out. while your busy waxing philosophic on the one hand and lying to me that you have bothered to read materials you haven't on the other, everything is moving along according to evolutionary and entropic forces which can't be stopped. Your question is the wrong question. Its not important how to change ows, its important how to change civilization, and if ows is a way to change civilization then it is useful and if it is not a way to change civilization then it is part of the problem.
Right now!
The Revolution has a theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
Occupations are just one aspect - the most visible one - of a broad and ever growing national movement.
Every violent action against us adds to our numbers and reinforces our message of truth.
Every day the disconnect between reality and the corporate media projection is broadcast around the world for all to see.
Every day the politicans are finding themsleves boxed into ever smaller corners.
We are two months into a war against a system that is centuries old. The first battle has been resoundingly won.
We have changed the dialogue from deficits to corporate control of government. We have had electoral vicitories across the country, from Maine to Arizona. The enemy knows we are here, they know we are not going away, and they are scared to death that we are going to be successful. And we will!
Look past this moment, into the future, and create the change you want to see.
all of that is fine and dandy, but from the pov of a systems theorist, which i am, the WORK of a revolution has yet to start. I AM being the change i want to see thats WHY i am posting links which apparently you did not look at before hitting the reply button.
All of those milestones are dandy ones, and i am proud of what has been done and thankful. But i am also lucidly aware of the work that must be done to have a real revolution, and painfully aware that so far as i can see, only myself an a small handfull of people realize that or are doing such work.
We have millions of participants, in thousands of cities, but only maybe 50 people tops with the sanity to actually do the intellectual work. We have a patently disorganized movement, on a patently diseased trollhatten, without any kind of organization, and still lacking sub forums or an on site wiki all this time later despite those things being asked for since in essence day one.
WTF?
What is so hard for people like you to understand. YAY for all the great things that have been done. Now. When does the ADULT game START?
Why are there only 20 people even signed on to the wiki?
seriously?
you can march and protest till civilization ends, and you will not effect an actual revolution.
Glad to see you are still posting, gawdoftruth.
thank you, keep on keeping on, and please, come over to the wiki.
:)
I'm in! It'll be a bit of a learning curve but i like learning ; ) Had trouble with email confirmation. Is it possible to contact each other on occupythiswiki?
OWS beats the drum of the 1st Amendment right to peaceably assemble yet apparently refuses to beat the drum of their 1st Amendment right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Why?
two main reasons. not enough time to generate a detailed list, and not enough faith that the powers that be will listen and thus, not a lot offocus on that process. It takes a long time for consensus process to get its gears rolling. there is a detailed list of grievances... I think it will require removing the oligarchs from power to actually get anything done, they aren't likely to take grievances seriously... The oligarchs declared war on the rest of us.. mere lists of grievances aren't likely to sway them.
I don't answer everyone who posts on the wiki as i'm not sure always what to say but i do note the recent changes and its quite easy to use name spaces in which to communicate.
Agreed, they will likely ignore The List of grievances as they have sipped champagne and laughed off the occupations. But this is the way the game is played at this time, these are the tools we have. It's that 'going through the proper channels' thing. If you read the Declaration https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ through to the end, you'll see there is a clearly stated resolve of exactly what action will follow the ignoring of The List, namely forming an independent third party and removing the oligarchs.
As for the list itself it currently has 21 group suggested items. theghostofthomasjefferson said:
[-] theghostofthomasjefferson 3 points 1 week ago No, I wrote the Declaration of Desperation. I believe the 99% Declaration is an ineffective document. The Occupy Movement will fail if it is adopted. For it will alienate the American People. This is not a question of politics, of right or wrong. This is a question of intelligence. We must be smart. We enjoy popular support, for now. But to preserve America's good will, we must keep our demands narrow: end the corrupting influence of money in politics. That is something a majority of Americans can get behind. That is something a social movement can achieve. And then, and only then, can the other issues be successfully pursued.
I take his words to heart. Therefore I think it's important to get the delegates together and reform GAs for each congressional district so that they can come prepared for the NGA. What The List looks like after the NGA will be interesting. The length and details of the list don't need to be total for it would be a living document. It's the fact that there is a list at all because then we'll know whether TPTB/oligarchs are going to come to the table or not. By then the structure is in place and The 99 can govern themselves, accordingly.
This is the transition to direct democracy. This is what re-tooling looks like. Occupythiswiki
"I'm a farmer. I know a good machine from a crappy one (read Egypt). But a good machine in the hands of a lousy operator leads to damaged equipment and loss of crop leading to debts and hunger. We're coming out with better machines all the time but keeping the machine I have running productively means I can acquire a state-of-the-art machine sooner. So let's fix the machine we have (the ballot box is your tool box) while we discuss the new machine." AFarewellToKings
simply put, hes dead wrong. each issue is an issue which can rope in another percen tof the population, and how we achieve a coalition which is a numeric majority is going after EVERY issue and giving each issue a treatment which is evolutionary. I think people fail to imagine what evolutionary new solutions will look like or how that will defeat both "left" and "right" inside the box thinking. Marketing 101 demands of us that we get VERY detailed, but use state of the art diplomacy and consensus tools in order to iron out the REAL issues that the 99 percent have, rather than allow the oligarchs to keep divide and conquering us. What everyone argues for in essence is that the 99 percent is too stupid to actually create a detailed evolutionary political platform. I find that insulting, and see it as a serious failure of imagination.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
Protesting; the most extravigant form of procrastination , EVER.
i have 5 citations out of occupy SB, so i am entitled to make this point. As much as i appreciate the occupy "movement" its not moving. its a log jam. its going nowhere fast and the actual work of a real revolution hasn't even started yet, except by solitary folks like me.
When will the movement wake up? until it does, its just more of the same and part of the problem, not part of the solution.
U wake up fool http://spiritofjubilee.com/debt/recipe-for-armageddon-fdic-to-back-75-trillion-of-bank-of-as-derivatives-trades
This isnt gonna stop.
yeah, but when is it going to come to focus as an agent for positive change? if ever? When is the work going to get done? Continuing on forever is still not making change. It had best stop in a few months after we have a revolution, ? obviously? Whats the game plan? 20 years of protesting and occupying? I have news for you- unless we change civilization, everyone dies in 7 years when the mass distribution network fails. For instance. So we had best wake up to the change, to the evolutionary work, to the actual problem solving process, and direct open source direct democracy.. because protesting isn't doing the work.
2 months dude
The american revolution didnt happen and solve independece in 2 months
http://www.freepatriotism.com
another forum site is not useful compared to a wiki. We already have all kinds of forum sites. Get back to me when you have 1001 sub forums organized.