Forum Post: When are people going to realize that organized violence is a really bad idea?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 5, 2011, 9:26 a.m. EST by ARod1993
(2420)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Honestly, if there's enough blood in the streets that our movement could be considered a violent revolution then we're doing it really fucking wrong. Right now most of this country doesn't give a flying fuck what we do out here and we as protesters haven't really defined let alone begun to implement a game plan for actually attacking policies we disagree with at the electoral level.
The problem with engaging in actual organized violence at this point isn't just that the government will be all over us in two seconds flat, it's also that 80-90 percent of this country will be cheering them on as they crack down. If that doesn't sway you, then realize that the resulting domestic terrorism scare could be used to effectively close off debate of these issues for a good long while in the future and thus you'd be shooting yourself in the ass in the long run too.
Honestly, what we need to do is assemble a core platform of reforms that we as a movement will endorse and then essentially take a page out of Newt Gingrich's book and bill it as a Contract with America or something of that nature. Lay out concrete ideas for fixing things, and do so in language that will appeal to the largest percentage of the political spectrum possible. See how many elected officials will publicly sign it, and if none will then run your own people in local, state, and national primaries on that Contract.
who is advocating violence?
Those who staunchly advocate violence,
and who will not be tamed by either reason,
love of their own neighbor,
or caution on behalf of the Movement,
must be ostracized and disavowed.
This post was a follow-up to an argument I had with fwankie123 and a few others on here that have argued that the proper way to demonstrate commitment to the cause was by spilling our blood and the blood of the police. I told him in no uncertain terms that he was being a fool and yet he had a pretty hard time getting it. I put it out there because I feel it's as important to publicly avow nonviolence as it is to argue with the advocates of violence where they pop up.
just assume that he is being paid to discredit the movement - it may not be true, but it is entirely possible and perhaps even likely. It remains the fastest way to reassert our common strategy of non-violence.
Organised violence = NYPD?
See my response to TheUnchainedComic. I'd love to string people up for the crap I saw the NYPD pull when they emptied Zuccotti Park, but the fact of the matter is that one can put a stop to the crap and quite effectively drag the cops and city governments through the mud without laying a hand on anyone.
Tell that to the IRA....
The IRA got away with what they did for the same reason nobody can conquer Afghanistan and for the same reason we beat back the British in the Revolution; they were fighting a war of occupation against an entire population and in the case of the first two examples there were such clear ethnic divides between the occupiers and the occupied that there was no way that an us v. them mentality could not have prevailed. The problems the Occupy movement faces are different and should be addressed differently.
That's a great question to ask your mayor and police chiefs. Peace.
True, and that's why I'd advise a turn to the political sphere given that it's an election season. Fighting fire with fire doesn't work when one side has a lighter and the other side has a blowtorch, and that's the situation we face now. That said, if you can replace your opponent's boss with someone who will take away his blowtorch then that's what you should do. If we're as disgusted with police brutality as we say we are then the best tactic is to save all of our footage of beatings, pepper sprayings, etc, pick the worst and most blatant footage, and run it in an ad blitz against your current mayor asking people if they really want to elect a man who will quite literally beat dissenters into the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
I'm not sure what the point of the TZM thing is....
What the fuck are you babbling about?
Just see what I said to ZenDog below; the post is a public reply to several on here including fwankie123 who have been pushing us to turn to violence and openly attack the police rather than act through other means.