Forum Post: What’s up with this? The White House refuses to put people in Gitmo?
Posted 11 years ago on March 9, 2013, 4:44 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8342)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
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The NYT is MSM -
by definition - it cannot have a great article
haven't you read anything here ?
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Some are very accustom to spinning around in cyberspace, the thought of moving large numbers of people eluded them completely, I for one am glad we have posters the read the Times.
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I don't subscribe either but learned, when Nate Silver moved there that if you know something of the story you're looking for doing a goole news search will often find it and when you click in through there the pay screen doesn't stop you from reaching the full article, anyway it's a way to read Times stories in full.
Gitmo theory this week.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/15749-alleged-terrorist-trial-ethics-breaches-called-possible-obama-plan-to-close-gitmo
Nobody calls Odrona "The President" except for mental patients and his paid propagandists. Word is you qualify both ways.
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No body will pay to have people tell the truth, the truth is the most powerful and useless thing on Earth.
Powerful, because like Neil Degrasse Tyson said about science, the truth don't care about your lies it just is.
Useless because the truth can't be massaged or controlled, it's just the truth, the minute you try to massage it, well it's not the truth anymore.
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The only thing you have exposed is your ass, oh and here's your badge:
(I GOT MY BUTTON PUSHED BY ZEN DOG)
No offense, friend, but you must be delusional. Ain't nuthin' going on here that merits Obama or anybody else using paid plants. Nowhere near enough people here, no real planning or threats to anybody or anything, no prospects of any such thing in the future, no reason at all to think anything of any importance at all will happen here. They have much, much more useful and important things to spend their money on.
maybe if we explain to the republiclans that that there is no profit in Gitmo
and convicting this guy may send him to one of their friend's private for profit prisons
The GOP are afraid that the Gitmo prisoners will all die before they can get more down there, I mean what if a Dem wins in 2016? it could be 12 years before Gitmo sees another prisoner, then what do they do to people that really threaten their power by talking about wealth inequality. I think they want Gitmo there for the really dangerous Americans.
I think all filibusters must be done in a Gitmo cell
I spent some time at Gitmo before it was a prison, it was the most beautiful base I ever saw.
Now scarred forever by what happens there.
International crime, I mean.
Please support our efforts to close Gitmo.
http://salsa3.salsalabs.com/o/50869/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=10100
We need your support.
I too was in Gitmo, for a year working a month on and off when the Haitian and Cuban refugees were there
That does not make our opposing points of view more or less valid though
~Odin~
Bush and Obama would love that. They would pitch that, then leave em there for the rest of their lives to rot away or commit suicide.
How many people did Bush imprison in Gitmo ? I believe - over 750
How many people did Obama imprison in Gitmo ? I believe 0
On January 22, 2009, President Barack Obama signed an order to suspend the proceedings of the Guantanamo military commission for 120 days and to shut down the detention facility within the year.
On January 29, 2009, a military judge at Guantanamo rejected the White House request in the case of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, creating an unexpected challenge for the administration as it reviewed how the United States brings Guantanamo detainees to trial. On May 20, 2009, the United States Senate passed an amendment to the Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009 (H.R. 2346) to block funds needed for the transfer or release of prisoners held at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.
President Obama issued a Presidential memorandum dated December 15, 2009, ordering Thomson Correctional Center, Thomson, Illinois to be prepared to accept transferred Guantanamo prisoners.
How many has he imprisoned in all the new secret prisons in Africa? No one knows. How many nations has he bombed since taking office? 8. How many nations has he sent troops into? 10.
Keep pretending this guy is any better. Your baseline for acceptable is so pathetically low that I guess "less murders" are ok. "Less people being tortured at Gitmo" is acceptable.
That was teh whole point of the Bush era. To desensitize the nation to war. It worked. What is going on now is 100% unacceptable.
Do you apply that logic to the rest of your life too?
change the subject & afraid to answer a simple question.
Obama imprisoned millions of people in Africa because
he is a Muslim Kenyan
shall we try truth next time? in stead of sillyness, try again -
How many people did Bush imprison in Gitmo ? How many people did Obama imprison in Gitmo ?
So you are ok with detaining people there indefinitely? Since one put them there, and the other doesnt let him go, its ok?
Thats a pathetic stance to take.
And why would you think Obama is a Muslim? The guy has bombed more muslim countries than any person in the history of the planet.
Anyone who backs Obama or Romney, or McCain or Obama, has sold their positions to the desire to win.
I'll answer your question - Will you answer mine?
Obama is a Muslim - because a lying idiot on faux told me the "secret" that he is a secret Muslim.
Your answers, please
How many people did Bush imprison in Gitmo ?
How many people did Obama imprison in Gitmo ?
Anyone who listens to FOX and either thinks its true, or gets upset about, needs to take about 100 steps back.
Here's your answer: Bush- tons. Obama-none in Gitmo.
If you would like to ignore the other very important parts of the gitmo equation, like PEOPLE ARE STILL BEING TORTURED THERE, then thats on you.
Obama ordered torture stopped.
I am against any torture any time by anyone.
What PROOF do you have that torture is still
happening at Gitmo?
war is torture.
it displaces people from their homes, rips families apart, destroys needed infrastructure, and leaves people often without any way of getting health care. After the surge, Afghanistan saw it's highest level of civilian death since the start of the war.
When fragmentation bombs are being deployed, all talks of human rights are a farce.
You are a product of nihilistic relativism. You make excuses for atrocity because the other guy committed atrocity too, in some cases which were worse.
"at least I'm not Dick Cheney"
Let's all take part in this effort to close gitmo.
http://salsa3.salsalabs.com/o/50869/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=10100
We need your support.
Are people still there?
people are there
prisoners are there
guards are there
food is there
water is there
sunlight is there
this proves torture is there ?!?!?!?!?!
wow....
very telling answer to my question -
where is proof of gitmo torture today
If we can all agree on this strategy, we might affect change.
http://salsa3.salsalabs.com/o/50869/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=10100
Join us. We need you. And we're stronger together.
Why do you think they are building so many more secret bases? People think that Gitmo is the only place this has ever been going on at are nuts, naive, or just dumb.
This empire is out of control, is clinging to power and is willing to do whatever necessary to maintain it.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/10296-obamas-scramble-for-africa-secret-wars-secret-bases-and-the-pentagons-new-spice-route-in-africa
Did somebody say Gitmo?
Another effort by Pres Obama to undo the 'war on terror' enemy combatant logic of dealing with these criminals.
Another effort to use accepted American legal systems instead of secret military tribunals.
Another attempt to show we CAN try these criminals in a court of law with all the rights of the accused that entails.
All part of the effort to finally close gitmo.
next move:?? Neocon war mongers scream bloody murder!
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Spam!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI
"The White House refuses to put people in GITMO..[!!]"
Now they just hit them with drone attacks....
~Odin~
What kind of fucking "red baiting" is this?
Red baiting is a bullshitting tactic used by you in an attempt to discredit an opponent by using false or groundless deprecating accusations
You are a fellow traveler in the sense that like me, you are supportive of most of the principles of Occupy Wall Street, but unlike me, you do not want to join this group
Because to do so would mean having to renounce your pathetic attempt to turn this noble struggle into a wing of the Democratic party
You know factsy, 'red baiting' was made most popular by 'ol Joe in the '50s, and yet you so often use it on the good OWS people here, hmmmm?....my suspicions of you grows....lol
You are not trying to discredit the many good progressives on here by making them look stupid with your malicious antics, are you factsy?
Nah, you are not that clever, instead you are just losing your grip, and as your frustration becomes more pronounced,
You become more rancorous & mean....I understand that all this cannot be easy on you
~Odin~
Well "forvikleka" or whatever you do know that people can read don't you?
Old Joe as i recall was a master of the inferred wrong, like saying you were at a meeting with so and so and therefor....or saying you get your money from so and so therefor....without actually having anything real to say against you, like Nader did to Gore, damn shame about that climate change thing...
I wondered how long it would take you to get back to Nader and Gore
I know the ugly history of McCarthyism quite well, hence I also know that your tactics of denegrating people are very simular
There was a woman from Maine who was the first to speak out against Senator Joe's ugliness, and she is one of my favorite people in history for having the courage to do so
Her name, Senator Margaret Chase Smith R from Maine
On the Senate floor in what was to called the Declaration of Conscience speech, she said, "I do not want to see the Republican party ride to victory on the Four Horses of Calumny - Fear, Ignorance, Bigotry, and Smear"
Except possibly for bigotry, you have the other ones down pat
Senator Smith also went on to say in that speech. "The basic principles of Americanism are;
-The right to criticize
-The right to hold unpopular beliefs
-The right to protest
-The right of independent thought"
I could see your argument was getting weak factsy, so I wanted to give you some fodder
I mean..imagine that..one of Odin's - frovikleka's favorite people in history is a woman, a REPUBLICAN no less!
Certainly in your little mind, you should be able to increase your smear campaign against me in knowing that
~Odin~
BTW, I can see you & your multiple pseudonym buddies were busy last night down-voting me, yet another sign of your desparation...lololol
I've no doubt you've studied McCarthy you employ his tactics, not very well though, pretty transparent.
Your love of Republicans is know by all, no worries.
You're a funny little man factsy
Did you take your nap this afternoon
What happened to the thread you put up denigrating me
That was amusing
It's late and it's time for you to wake all your multiple pseudonym buddies up.......lolololol
~Odin~
It's up top now no worries...
What's "up top" here is indicative of
What's "up top" in your shallow vengeful little mind
~Odin~
Senator Smith also went on to say in that speech. "The basic principles of Americanism are;
-The right to criticize
-The right to hold unpopular beliefs
-The right to protest
-The right of independent thought"
I rarely see Americans encourage or make use of these rights. This website is indicative of this. Anything that is outside the main lines of thoughts is deemed trollish.
I agree.. with some exceptions, this web site unfortunately does not mirror the rest of Occupy
That is because there are people on here who have forgotten how we got to where we are today, and that encompasses both the good and the bad
~Odin~
Unfortunately, Americans are not known for their intellectualism. Most are unable to debate in proper fashion using strong logic and argumentation. They always want to be right, and want to one up their opponents. Shooz, and DKAtoday are good examples of such people. Either they agree in which case they throw high-fives and twinkles, or they disagree in which case they mock, insult, etc... They are unable to think critically. They act as the forum guardians and prosecutors, but, ironically, they don't even understand what Occupy is all about. They think it's a new political party of some sort. Politics, politics, politics...
When most people think of Americans, they see a huge blob-like person/fat monster sort of thing eating thawed hamburgers, drinking a bucket of Coca-Cola, and watching Jerry Springer reruns. They certainly don't imagine someone reading Lacan, or Thoreau.
I disagree with your negative assessment of the other posters here
We all do our best to try and convince other people to our point of view, as I do, and we should do so without initiating nastiness, and like I said earlier in another post, most of us have grown since coming here which is good
While having no formal education myself, i have bright, well educated kids whom my ex and i have always taught to follow their heart, to think critically, stand up for what they believe in, and to always aspire to be better people
Just in the 18 months that i have been here, i have learned to articulate myself so much better than when i first came here, and for whatever it's worth my eclectic likes in music range from the Waltz of The Sleeping Beauty (playing now)...The Blue Danube...to Amarillo By Morning...to Pearl Jam, and even to Hip Hop.
I grew up with a Swedish Dad; worked and broke bread with people from all over the world; have traveled quite a bit; and was married to a woman from New Zealand for over twenty years so i haven't led the typical American life
Hence I know well the unfortunately partially accurate opinion that people from other countries have of us, but
What a good part of Occupy is also striving for, and what will be essential in our struggle is for people to reconnect, build COMMUNITY and in the process, change our ethos in getting away from being so hateful of one another, or different groups of people
I the same way that neoliberalism has promoted the latter in its aim to keep us divided, our struggle is propagating the former
And I am doing my part to bring that to fruition, but yes I obviously am flawed too
~Odin~
"When most people think of Americans, they see a huge blob-like person/fat monster sort of thing eating thawed hamburgers, drinking a bucket of Coca-Cola, and watching Jerry Springer reruns"
Priceless :)
Yeah...I wish it weren't so, but that is how much of the world views us, and while we can blame some of the truth to that on a dumbing down of us by the MSM and the corrupt elite
In the final analysis, we have to look in the mirror
We have also been indoctrinated to believe that there is something inheritantly wrong with the European countries and the people themselves who have a better history of putting people before profits
~Odin~
It's a correct assessment that some might interpret as being negative.
Not very eclectic. You should listen to great American composers like Steve Reich, George Antheil, John Cage, etc... Those are the real musicians of America. Unfortunately, most Americans don't even know them. The reason is because most Americans are unable to appreciate culture and arts. They need people from europe to point out to them that someone like George Antheil is important, respected, and an unforgettable part of music history. American's listen to Miles Davis's Kind of Blue, while the rest of the world listens to Bitches Brew.
Everyone's flawed. The goal is not to be perfect, but to aim to be better, and thus closer to the truth. We can do this by learning proper debating mechanisms, by acquiring more knowledge by knowing what we should read, etc...
The problem with shooz, DKAtoday, and the other members of the Twinkle Team is that they refuse to learn. They do not debate, they embrace what they like and insult what they don't. This is precisely why they do not understand what Occupy is all about even after a few years of being addicted to this site. They think Occupy is an anti-republican protest. They always discuss politics. DKAtoday sends letters to the President, thereby legitimizing his power over us. He does these anti-Occupy actions because he fails to understand that Occupy is not about playing into politics. It's about anarchy; the idea that we the people can create a better world by ourselves, for ourselves. We don't need representatives, so let's start by stopping to legitimize their power.
It's good to know your children are intelligent and interesting. They must stick out amongst all the Jerry Springer watchers in your country. They are the good exception. Unfortunately, Americans are generally poorly educated, uninteresting, show-offs, warmongers, unhealthy eaters, and generally disliked by the world's population.
There are a lot of intellects, and so-called experts that don't know what the fuck they are talking about and are short-sighted, self-serving asses
That and greed in large part is the reason why we are here
So for all the faults, or disagreements we have, most of us are here for good reasons Thr@ssy
~Odin~
I'm sure they are here with good intentions. I'm saying they don't have the ability for proper intellectual debates and that's why they fall in the trap of using logical fallacies to go against the ideas they don't agree with. This is unfortunate for them as it hinders their learning ability which is why they still don't understand Occupy even though all the information is out there.
They will continue to believe Occupy is a political party until the day they die. This limits their power of action. If DKAtoday participated in a group that believed in sending letters to the President, he would have more support form the group and the idea would have much more impact. He's ideas aren't bad, they just don't follow in the principles of Occupy. He would be better off working for a political party, or some other movement like moveon.
It's also a question of integrity. Why would someone support a movement if they don't support the basic principles of that movement? It makes little sense. Shooz and DKAtoday don't believe the system is broken. That's why they legitimize the system by asking their representatives to make changes. They mostly believe it's a problem stemming from republicans, and other right wing agendas. This is fine, but it has little to do with Occupy. They would achieve much more if they worked for a political party like the greens or the democrats where their ideas would be shared by the rest of those involved. Why support anarchy if you don't believe in it? Don't you find that strange?
I suppose this doesn't have anything to do with Occupy either.
http://www.occupy.com/article/tax-em-16th-amendment-revisited
I hope you realize that much of your statement is chock full 'o' those logical fallacies you hate so much.
Why do you spend your days on this forum if you are against Occupy projects? It's pretty sad when a long time member of this forum calls an Occupy Together initiative spam. Pretty sad indeed. http://www.i-govern.org/home/
If you don't support Occupy, why do you use this forum daily? That seems like a lack of integrity on your part. Strange indeed? Were you sent from moveon to corrupt Occupy into becoming help for the democrat party? WTF?
What's it to you, spam boy?
Why don't ever offer a cogent comment on actual Occupy issues?
Why don't you offer a little honesty?
Too painful for you to do that, so you offer spam and thinly veiled insults instead?
Don't waste your time playing the grumpy old man on this forum! Do something to change the world. Join this effort from Occupy Together! Help us create a Bridge to the Ground.
Just cut one hour of bingo from your weekend, and dedicate that time to Occupy. That alone will make a huge difference! Stop throwing words in the wind and really get involved.
http://www.i-govern.org/home/
Spam.
This has become spam.
I give you actual Occupy issues and you give me spam.
Spam=over processed meat byproducts.
So stop with the spam already.
Hey, by all means don't forget to kick out your little PMs that say how we are all on the same side.
It's time to stop wasting your time discussing political policies you have no control over. It's time to stop wasting your time doing lame petitions, writing letters to a president who doesn't read them, discussion democrat vs republican issues when both parties are corrupted. It's time to stop playing into politics, and start being a real occupier.
Join Occupy Together's effort to build a Bridge to the Ground. We need you. You can contribute in your area of expertise. We need all kinds of people.
http://www.i-govern.org/home/
Remember, we don't need politicians! We can govern ourselves. Occupy Together!
The website you posted has a section titled "how do we get there"
and under that is the statement: "We the people, shall organize and sign petitions to bring about popular referendum"
So why do you demean other peoples petition activism and then push your own petition?
Is it that only YOUR petition is valid. Kinda self centered, & arrogant no?
Maybe you aren't related to this website/effort at all and had no knowledge that they call for petitions. Is that it?
You found this good effort and decided to use it as a means to discourage valuable petition activism, and to squelch/silence important necessary political discourse.
You don't know anything about direct democracy do you?. You don't support i-govern.org and are only attempting to disrupt, divide, and discourage this forum, and any progress.
Again!
Does this mean you and ALL your teeny tiny puppets will be leaving us soon?
I can't wait.
Are you gone yet, or still recruiting?
PLEASE take you puppets away NOW!
They're starting to smell really, really bad.
As much as I appreciate the anarchists for having woken us up, and for that being the ideal in having a more participatory system
And as radical as some people here might view me for not wanting to get involved in the rotten political system
But rather encouraging people to RESIST including getting out in the streets. That being the only way that we will achieve systemic change
I do not view myself as an anarchist, just for the simple fact that i don't believe it could work in a country of 300 + million people
There are people in Occupy exploring a better system, perhaps a modified version of anarchy that would serve us better in the sustainable world most of us want, and that is really good
The truth is that radicals and reformers have a long history of working well together, and at no time was that more evident than in the early 20th century labor struggles
To a big degree, we can thank the commies and the socialists for the New Deal, and as I pointed out in another thread, 'that is why they had to be made the bogeyman
~Odin~
The time is ripe for you to join the Bridge to the Ground. We need your contributions! Join this Occupy Together initiative to create real democracy for the people, by the people.
http://www.i-govern.org/home/
We don't discuss politics, cause direct democracy is how we roll! It's time to Occupy!
Still spending your time attacking users on the forum? Lol. Man, how have you been!
formely - NewEnglandPatriot
No, no attacks by me, just rebuttals, and no multiple pseudonyms, but who might your daddy be.....Mr 1 pt, joined today.......factsy, Thrassy?
~Odin~
NewEnglandPatriot. I was here more than a year ago. You don't remember?
Some of my past postings:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=user%3ANewEnglandPatriot
I knew you as Odin, not frovikleka.
No I don't remember or care who you are
Anyone who supports one of the smallest, most vile minds on this forum, i have little respect for
~Odin~
Who did I say I supported? I am my own man. We had a lot of good discussions in the past. Anyways, hope all is good with you and your family.
"Still spending your time atacking users...." That by implication is support..... Thrassy
You been on your time off lately?
~Odin~
factsrfun stands against everything I stand for. He's the last person I would support here. I'm NewEnglandPatriot. I was making a joke because last time we were discussing issues here you were in strong fights against DKAtoday. I can't believe you don't remember me. We use to talk all the time.
So I oppose wealth inequality that must mean you support wealth inequality, I support public funding for elections you must oppose public funding for elections, I support stronger bank regulation you must oppose strong bank regulation.
I guess you are very at home with the TEA Party but Why are you here?
Nope, sorry i don't remember you, hence I do not know the reason you are here
And no i did not aprreciate your joke
Put your comments up on different issues and i will respond to them if i feel like it, and vice versa. That's all
~Odin~
Alright old friend. I'm not sure why you're in a bad mood, but I hope you cheer up soon. I'm here for the same reasons you are, for discussing ways to create a better world for all of us. Take care.
He's pissed off Obama won't put more people in Gitmo. See how many comments he's made here and not one word about how this is a good thing that we're not putting more people there, classic Obama hater.
Did you copy trevor or do the two of you work from the same talking points?
I didn't think you gave a shit about Gitmo, or anything but hating Obama.
No need for me to copy anyone. I do respect Trevor though
Yes...I know how your mind works, factsy
If you are not a dem supporter, you are a repub....Right?
Do you still not know what Occupy is about after all this time?
Don't you know that 'red baiting' went out of style in the '50s
You're not still wearing corduroys, are you?
This must be so frustrating for you, eh?
Will you be setting your multiple pseudonyms on me sometime soon?
~Odin~
So you just chimed in to dump on Obama because he refuses to use Gitmo even if the GOP has blocked him from closing it? Like i said I'm not surprised, I'm sure like me most on here know that you are just an Obama Hater that don't give a shit about OWS.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/odin-shows-his-true-partisan-self/
No, I did not just "chime in to dump on Obama"
I "chimed in to" to remind you that he too is one of the reasons why most of us are here
You have always been the biggest 'red baiting,' most vindictive LITTLE man on this forum as your above link points out
I invite you to put that thread/link up everyday as it proves my point
BTW, will you be at M23, or May Day & will you be the one wearing the styrofoam red, white, & blue Obama hat?...lol... Let me know, OK?
~Odin~
You mean the thread that supposedly got you "banned" but more like you ran away from the forum for months because all here became aware that you don't give a shit about OWS your sole purpose here is to dump on Obama and protect the GOP from defeat and to prevent the American people form obtaining equality.
You commented here on this thread because you fear people learning that unlike the crap you and your fellow trolls post Obama has been doing all he can to close Gitmo and the GOP are pissed about that.
If you gave a shit about Gitmo, you would be pointing out the pain the GOP is feeling as the number of people held there dwindles.
But you are just a hater nothing more nothing less.
I see I am down a few points since early this morning. Certainly you can do better than that ;-) as most of us know what a vindictive little man you are
Where's the thread that you put up for the sole purpose of denigrating me? Aren't you going to put that up again today. You should make an up-dated version
I never ran away from the forum, not even in the 2 x times I was in AK
The problem for you now is the forum is getting away from partisan politics more and more, as the moderators have improved. This must be so frustrating for you
One more time factsy, will you be joining this rev anytime soon?
Seriously factsy, you are the total antithesis of what OWS is about
You are simply CLUELESS, but you are kinda of amusing...lol
~Odin~
"That has been one of the nicest compliments that I have ever gotten on here..lol."
You're far too humble, my friend.
I hear you even have a knack for poetry, heheh.
Yeah, I usually reserve my poetry skills for Sunday mornings to build COMMUNITY
Anyway what factsy says about me rolls right off, and his constant attempts to denigrate me, makes me smile as i realize how futile he is feeling
~Odin~
Sunday morning poetry. I'll have to tune in, it sounds downright religious.
Yeah, frf would be better devoting his energy toward the common cause instead of directing it at you. I vaguely remember him putting up some good things. But wasn't he absent from the forum for quite a while? Didn't he just return fairly recently?
Or maybe I just wasn't paying attention.
No not religious, spiritual at times...maybe, But mostly kinda quirky and light
I kinda look at it as my day off from the forum, while still being here
You're right, we should all be devoting ourselves to the "common cause" of improving our lives, and hence the lives of our progeny
When factsy was gone for a while. I think my blood pressure was getting too low then
Now that he is back, it is normal again ;-)
Getting back to the good stuff. I had a really cool day today working alongside university kids who gave up their spring break to come here to NJ to help home-oners who were devastated by superstorm Sandy
They are in a program called Community Collaborations International. They were great kids, and I congratulated them for not being airheads.
I now have a new fondness for the Ohio State Buckeyes, and the Cornell College Iowans, the schools they attended
I did have the chance during the day to radicalize them up a bit too..;-)
~Odin~
Blood pressure back to normal. That's funny as hell. So he is doing some good after all, heheheh.
It's a good sign that a lot of these young people are actually getting aware and engaged. And doing a lot of good it seems. There wasn't a whole lot of that going on in my youth around here. It's true that a lot of our generation dropped the ball, but it's seldom too late to make up for lost time. This movement gives some of us a chance to make amends of sorts. It's powerful. And I can feel the change in my bones. Things are changing, I can feel it.
It's never too late gnomunny, and making "amends for our generation having "dropped the ball" is exactly how I see my participation in Occupy
It was so nice to see these kids here today, and at the end, 4-5 of them gave me their cameras/phones to take group pictures of them with their Buckeye shirts on, and posing crazily
And I don't know if i told you, but i had two conversations recently with my doctor and a person at the credit union i belong to, and both were amazingly keen as to what has and still is going on in this country
That was a surprise to me. It really was.
~Odin~
I do believe that people are starting to get the picture. My nephew said he heard someone on the bus (or doctor's office) the other day talking about the gun confiscation issue. Not that there's going to be an actual confiscation, mind you, but at least this person was aware of the issue.
And one of my neighbor's came over about a week ago and was talking to us as we worked on the other neighbor's van and he was fully aware of the banking shenanigans. Knew all the big names, Dimon, Blankfein, Geithner. I was surprised and impressed. And he was not too happy.
So, yeah, the word is spreading.
It's really important i believe to do outreach in our everyday lives
Although I do not understand the mathematical concept of 'exponential growth', I do understand the basics
And that is how this movement can grow big time
~Odin~
http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=User%3Aodin
http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=User%3Afrovikleka
Who could tell?
I got the bravery award....cool, Thanks factsy...lol
~Odin~
Wow, you were awarded the 'Thrasymaque Award for Bravery.' Bravo!
Did it come with a plaque?
Unfortunately no "plaque," but what a big surprise the news coming from factsy
Do you think he is begining to see the light, or is it 'cause it came from Thrassy?
~Odin~
"when Romney takes the retirement funds to put in his second car elevator at least you will have your transcendent shit."
This is exactly what Obama is already doing, with no COLA in his first 3 years and now they are fucking with SS and forcing people's retirement into the stock market because they have destroyed the bond market with ZIRP.
I doubt Fats has ever been to OP or for that matter, his local Dem campaign office.
Gee OTP, i gotta get up to speed on all this, WTF's ZIRP?
Not being partisan,...... And knowing that both parties are rotten to the core.....And also knowing the arguments in DC are rarely framed in an honest way, but rather in a lobbysist-like/corporation-like way....... has its downside as you do not follow all the shit goes on in DC, admittedly though, I should follow it closer as the consequences are real Sorry for the long run-on sentence
I have been deep in thought.. (well as 'deep' as I am capable of..lol).. in approaching our struggle from different angles
Just imagine though if they had been successful in privatizing SS "into the stock market" before 2008
I guess, either way we are getting screwed while Dimond and Blankfein rake in huge compensation packages
~Odin~
Here's a man with a plan. You will get a kick outta this one: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-16/excavator-parks-outside-cyprus-bank-full-video
Zero interest rate policy. Artificially manipulating the interest rates, LIBOR stuff.
I love how they wanted to privatize it, yet make it mandated. Sounds familiar, eh?
"You WILL give your money to wall st." ...or.... "You WILL give your money to the insurance cartel"... unreal the level of hypocrisy of these two monsters.
OK thanks for that. I did know about LIBOR, but not that acronym 'ZIRP"
Either way, no matter what, we the 99% get screwed
I guess that's why we are here
~Odin~
I'm having a tough time figuring frf out, but it doesn't seem like he's 'seeing the light' at all. I thought the forum was moving away from the 'all hail Obama' types, then frf comes back strong. Anyone who can't see Obama's true colors by now is very blind indeed.
And so is anyone that would mistake you for, 1. not giving a shit about OWS, and 2. being a Republican booster.
I guess this forum will never be fully rid of little men with little minds. Thank God they're the exception, not the rule.
Or is it this kind of OWS stuff?
Anybody that can't see the GOP for the danger that it is is an idiot or a GOP supporter it doesn't matter which the result is the same more GOP policies. Maybe someday OWS will understand that the 60 million Americans that understand this already aren't all evil Two headed monsters.
The problem, facts, is that you, and a lot of others, seem to think that Obama bashing is the same as supporting the GOP. That's an extremely narrow-minded, simplistic viewpoint. And I've followed Odin's comments for months now and know for a fact, he's no GOP shill and definitely IS a strong supporter of all thing Occupy. Which leads me to believe your problem with him is personal, because it sure isn't based on any "facts."
So is this the kind of OWS stuff you wanted to talk about?
Odin has thrown logic and truth under the buss in order to attack Obama here is one example:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/odin-shows-his-true-partisan-self/
From here to see the whole thread you welcome to make up your own mind of course, that IS what OWS is all about after all, that's another thing odin seems to object to he is consistinly telling me what does and does not fit into OWS rather than simply presenting his own views, I suppose that's why he doesn't contribute to the forum he doesn't really want to share his own views so much as regulate other people's not exactly a OWS sort of thing I would think.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/climate-change-deniers-and-third-party-supporters-/#comment-798531
the comment was removed from it's original thread.
Go campaign for the Dems then and shut up.
Were you elected Sargent at Arms? I missed the meeting.
Obummer is no saint - that is the truth. Fortunately - He ain't no Mitten either.
I can't argue with that. Apparently 'Mittens' is pretty depressed about not making it into the White House.
he's still got money
Yep - and is quite busy on the corpoRAT talk circuit - idiots employing a major failure.
Like In real life, your character shows here too
It's factsy's 'red baiting' ( a repub tactic mostly....hmmm!) that I find most despicable
Then there is the multiple pseudonym buddies, and his vindictiveness
If you give someone enough line, he will usually 'hang himself'
Ya just gotta guide them a little bit....;-)
~Odin~
You haven't changed ids again already? odd? remember when you suggested I do that? What a bullshit thing to do.
Even frauds like you have their usefulness, though the tool may not understands it's use, as long as the craftsman does the work should come out fine.
WOW factsy, you are beginning to sound profound, or at least YOU think so anyway
Yes, i remember well when i told you to do that becuase the trolls were pounding away on you mercilessly, and at the time i still had respect for you
That was before you became such an obnoxious, vindictive little man, and i felt bad for you despite our differences
It's called loyalty factsy, but you would not know that
Unlike yourself there is no need for me to have multiple pseudonyms as I am not on a crusade to turn Occupy Wall Street into a wing of the democratic party
You are losing your credibility factsy, but you are gaining our empathy in the futility your exhibit in your 'red baiting' people here.... day in and day out
BE careful, that can get you banned, you know!!....lolololol
~Odin~
No reply button below.
Give it a rest, man. I could care less about your personal problem with Odin. Quit bothering me with it. If you want to talk about OWS-related shit, I'm game.
lying sack of shit
Now, now factsy, be a good little man today
Why not take the day off from your obvious frustration, and do some research on what OWS is about. It's better late than never
And then try real hard to get on a higher level of communication on here
YOU can do it factsy
BTW will you be in the May Day parade this year? And will you be wearing your red, white, and blue 'corduroys' & your Obama styrofoam fedora?
~Odin~
Well put. I really don't know where his Odin-bashing is coming from, tho. The links he gave below show nothing of substance. Well, the second one does but not what he inferred. Equating climate change deniers with voting third party? Huh?
I remember when odin tried to get me to stop talking about wealth inequality I think that's when I realized he was a troll, you haven't had your aha moment yet I see.
If he weren't so obnoxious, I would have more understanding for him
Quite a while ago now, he bitched to another poster here that i was a "well spoken" troll
That has been one of the nicest compliments that I have ever gotten on here..lol
~Odin~
Too busy taking them out with drones. Should they put the body parts in GTMO?
-your own article even mentions the killing with drones.
Democrats and republicans are hypocrites... what else is new?
I never really thought you gave a shit about Gitmo, it's really just all about hating Obama for you isn't it tervor?
Keep that h- word to yourself you have not the right to speak it for others and you never will a fun fact to keep in mind. That is not going to ruin the word FUN no matter how you try. Fun is a safe word and shall not be tainted by the likes of you it is a yet to be defined ideal... WEEEEEEEEE...
So seeing Gitmo losing business is not a #FunFact or #ff? I think it is.
and trevor does a fine job of speaking his hate for Obama just fine all by himself, in the interest of the facts, seeing how I started the thread and all I just thought people should know that trevor is about hating Obama not addressing wealth inequality which he seems to have no issue with
Most occupiers hate all politicians, especially the Democrats and Republicans that broke up occupy. With all the Republican bashing, the last thing we need are the few here that actually helped to be bashing them too.
It would turn it something that people could find anywhere else in politics- hoards of people all blaming the other one, and giving theirs a free pass.
Thats the last thing this country needs. That doesn lead to change. A broad based group attacking the banks and bought out politicians is not what "they" want. Thats why they broke it all up.
TM is like many others in occupy, in that it was that moron Bush who got him involved politically- myself as well, with the wars, the money and the corruption-, And like many other young people, went with Obama.
And like many other occupiers, now realize this entire system is fucked. Realize that your peace prize winner is actually a war criminal. Realize that no decent person would sign shit that he has been signing.
Its time you get on board with change or go over to DailyKos instead.
no you're just all about propagating for people funded by Goldman Sachs that voted to give billions to Goldman Sachs.
I'd be impressed with not putting people in GTMO if they weren't drone striking them in place of GTMO.
What are your thoughts on Obama joining Henry Paulson and George Bush on giving billions to Goldman Sachs?
Sure, Goldman pays me tons to post stuff like this:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/recent-tax-cuts-have-saved-the-top-1-more-in-taxes/
and this
http://occupywallst.org/forum/everyone-with-a-share-of-stock-or-a-dollar-in-a-mu/
and this
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-christmas-wish-for-the-koch-brothers/
and this
http://occupywallst.org/forum/higher-labor-cost-now/
and this
http://occupywallst.org/forum/bush-tax-cut-deficit/
and this
http://occupywallst.org/forum/healthcare-government-does-it-cheaper/
and this
http://occupywallst.org/forum/if-we-give-them-a-lower-tax-rate-dont-we-have-a-ri/
and this
http://occupywallst.org/forum/when-some-say-were-out-of-money-its-like-mommy-and/
and this
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-america-revolution-was-the-largest-act-of-weal/
and oh what the fuck you already know you're a fucking lair
You didn't answer my question. I said you propagate for people funded by Goldman Sachs. I did not say you propagate for Goldman Sachs. Well technically you do when you support people giving billions of dollars to Goldman Sachs.
Here's a new question -Do you consider those who vote to give billions of dollars to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
I think the country was in a hell of a fix after eight years of Repubilcan Rule, if you have forgotten here's the details, tell me what exactly you think Obama did wrong here? I have some thoughts but I don't expect the President to merely be MY PUPPET
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/money-power-wall-street/
Good to see you don't deign the lair charge, I mean why bother when you've been so clearly exposed.
Willingness to lie comes easy to political hacks like you.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions of dollars to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
You picked the game I get to go first so you answer the first question which is which of my posts do you think Goldman would like the most?
Your posts where you propagate for the candidates they're funding. Those are the posts Goldman Sachs likes.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions of dollars to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
That's not an answer.
Pick one and link to it, or do you just expect others to answer your questions but you have no plans to do the same.
The obvious answer to my question - All of those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs are corrupt.
You can't answer my question because you are a shill who will not accept that some of your own preachers funded by Goldman Sachs share guilt in this corruption. Prove me wrong and answer my question correctly.
Goldman Sachs is a criminal organization that commits massive fraud that creates price inflation which extorts money from the poor and the working class. They destabilize the economy and contribute to massive job insecurity.
I'll get back to you when I see the link.
TROLL
Tell me which of the above posts do you think Goldman would like the most?
Let's see if you are in a question answering mood.
I mean if you pick the game it's only fair I go first, so you answer honestly and so will I.
Goldman likes your posts where you propagate for the candidates they're funding campaigns for.
Answer this question: Do you consider those who vote to give billions of dollars to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
or will your blind party allegiance not let you answer the question?
Go ahead and pick one from the list, if I POST for GOLDMAN as you say should be easy go ahead hell pick three.
You support Goldman Sachs by voting for and supporting the people they funded campaigns for, the same people who then vote to give billions of dollars to them.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
Shills can't answer this question because they know the truth and refuse to admit it.
I will say it. All of those who voted to give billions to Goldman Sachs are corrupt. This is the obvious answer.
Still waiting for you to link to even one of my posts that supports your position that I POST for GOLDMAN
Oh you do know that "vague accusations" is another tried and true GOP tactic, even though it was a filthy lie when accused me of calling you a "plant" you do keep trying to convince me.
If you shop at Wal-Mart, you're supporting Wal-Mart.
You support Goldman Sachs by voting for and supporting the people they funded campaigns for, the same people who then vote to give billions of dollars to them.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
Shills can't answer this question because they know the truth and refuse to admit it.
I will say it. All of those who voted to give billions to Goldman Sachs are corrupt. This is the obvious answer.
Like I said up top never did think you gave a shit about Gitmo, you are just about hating Obama, why don't you educate yourself a little before shooting your mouth off, yeah I would like to see some bankers jailed but not so much that I would help elect Republicans, as you claim too (though there is little evidence in your posts that you do anything other than just hate Obama) but doing nothing while a second depression hit would have been as stupid as voting for a Green.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/money-power-wall-street/
proudly disapprove and speak against Obama. Just like I proudly disapproved and spoke against Bush.
Warmongers funded by Goldman Sachs = Bush and Obama
The 2 party system works for Wall Street.
Goldman Sachs is in clear violation of anti-trust laws and anyone who gives them billions is corrupt.
Betraying justice is stupid. But go ahead and blame all the problems on the green party, a party that doesn't have a single person in congress and doesn't hold the presidency and never has. This shows your ignorance.
[Removed]
You got the GOP talking point down tervor that's another thing they are upset about, it seems the GOP plan is to keep Gitmo as a place to put people they don't like but Obama is doing what he can to stop them.
Yet you find fault even in his refusal to put more people in Gitmo, why am I NOT SURPRISED?
it's pathetic if you think being against war is a GOP talking point. All in the name of your party allegiance and refusal to acknowledge war crimes.
Lindsey Graham supports drones and killing people based on allegations. He is the loudest voice of support of that provision. He himself coined the term "the world is a battlefield" and here you are trying to act like speaking against this bullshit like NDAA laws is a GOP talking point. The GOP is pro-war.
Your article points out hypocrisy of party politics. The war crimes are ongoing.
I will never celebrate a war criminal for anything. Killing people and starting wars is where I draw the line.
Your only purpose here is to attack Obama and PROTECT the GOP others may be fooled but you waste you're time trying to convince me that you give a shit about war or anything else that OWS supports Obama ends the Iraq War and you don't miss a beat, you complain abut Gitmo and Obama does all within his power to shut it down but you still attack him. You like Odin are just Obama haters who post here in the hope of saving the GOP from the total destruction the GOP which would surly bring the change we need.
LOL fuck Obama and fuck the GOP regime.
Obama and Bush both funded by Goldman Sachs joined together in passing TARP
Clinton joined Bush and Reagan in choosing the Ayn Rand follower Greenspan who contributed to fucking up our economy and ultimate Wall Street fraud.
Go propagate for your warmongers funded by Goldman Sachs. Don't you have indefinite detention laws and assassination laws to make excuses for?
You type words but who can know which are lies and which are truth?
You are so fast and loose no one can know.
You're willingness to lie to achieve your goal, tells all, all we need to know.
You're reaching. And there's nothing to grab. Where have I lied?
Do you consider those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
-1 points by TrevorMnemonic (6483) 23 hours ago in all honesty i just got called a republican plant by factsrfun, and here you are calling me a democrat plant. How are you any better? You say such a thing when I bring up their guilt too. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
Dude if I had a dollar for all the times you've called me a republican or said I share republican views or like earlier "you've really got those republican talking points down." Same fucking thing.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
Link to one time where I called you a "Republican Plant" that's what you accused me of where is it?
If you can';t do that then you are a lair!
Do you consider supporting raising the minimum wage to be the same as opposing raising it?
If you want to play question/answer I have been waiting for you to answer that one for a year.
You've called me a republican many times on this forum.
Minimum wage increase / living wage standard = I 100% support this.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
So did you say that the Democrats who overwhelming support the minimum wage increase have a significantly different and superior position than the Republicans that overwhelmingly oppose it?
Is that what you are saying?
I am saying anyone who sells us out to Goldman Sachs, big oil, insurance companies, etc.... are not heroes and saviors. They are corrupt.
Even Mitt Romney donates millions to charity and he's still a piece of shit.
One good deed does not make up for years on end worth of corruption. This tactic is actually a key in manufacturing consent for all the bullshit. May I suggest reading a book by Noam Chomsky.
In regards to minimum wage yah the Democrats have a better viewpoint. In regards to giving billions to corrupt companies destroying the economy, the 2 party system is a fucking scam.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
You can't answer my question because you're a shill. A phony.
Go read a book by Chris Hedges. May I suggest Death of the Liberal Class. The book is pretty much about you and your compromise with power over liberal ideals.
I do not support the republican party. I will fully answer your question when you answer mine.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
Oh no if you want to play the game you have to go first, I won't be fooled again, I have been waiting far longer to see you address this.
You don't think people who give billions to Goldman Sachs are corrupt because the people you praise have participated in that corruption. You are a classic example of someone who constantly compromises morals in the name of party allegiance.
Remember that Factsrfun and several others are paid by the Obama regime to post here. Their posts are not representative of the Global Revolution or Occupy Movement. This post is:
http://occupynewhampshire.org/2013/03/09/repeal-aumf/
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............................................Troll solution ►
.............................................IGNORE ANY POSTS FROM THE TROLL
"bensdad" is another one of the paid propagandists I am referring to. Once again the bit dog hollers.
Oh and extra points for a classic use of that old GOP standby if you can't attack the message, attack the messenger.
Shouldn't you be blaming Nader and liberal organizations outside the 2 party system by now?
shouldn't you be making up more lies TROLL
dude you spread more propaganda about Nader than the GOP during OSHA.
How exactly is this "propaganda"?
Maybe because it's an An Inconvenient Truth that Bush would never have been President without help from Nader?
Nader the traitor has crawled under a rock,
It’s the only place safe from the things that he wrot.
As millennia approached us, we had one last shot,
To keep the planet we’re on from getting, too damn hot.
But Nader thought better his name should be heard.
And Gore was left standing with only his word.
Ten times ten thousand thought Gore couldn’t lose
And a statement was needed to make the world choose
Are we to be puppets and dance on a string?
Or will we be spirits and let our hearts sing?
December reality came crashing in
The court has decided that Bush got the win.
Where was the outrage where were the cries?
Believers were muted they had bought all the lies
How could they scream, how could they roar?
When even their ballots weren’t marked for Al Gore?
The Court destroyed democracy that day
So it would be safe for the Royals to play.
Cutting taxes is sweet
And we love all the meat
But Bush had a fear
What if folks start to hear?
Then an appointment or two
And I give you C-U.
Everything about Nader was better than Gore.
You are the death of the liberal class.
Riddle me this... Do you consider those who vote to give billions of dollars to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
I am waiting for you to answer the first question just to make sure you really want to do question/answer since you seem to feel any question asks requires answer some me how' it's done and tell me about my posts of which you think Goldman would approve, since you have actually accused me of supporting them prove it.
I answered your question. They like your posts where you root for the people they funded campaigns for. The posts where you propagate for people... people who have voted to give billions to Goldman Sachs. They love those posts.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
you're not going to answer this question because you're a shill. Prove me wrong and answer the question.
When you support and vote for people who then vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs, you are supporting Goldman Sachs. It's like supporting Wal-Mart by shopping at Wal-Mart.
Do you consider those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs to be corrupt?
I'm sorry i missed the link where is it?
You are a hopeless shill. Prove me wrong by providing the correct answer to my question.
All of those who vote to give billions to Goldman Sachs are corrupt.
This thread is about gitmo. Are you confused.?
Why don't you identify, denounce,and work towards retirement of "those who vote to give millions to Goldman Sachs?"
Why JUST Goldman Sachs?
What billions are you referring to.?
Which votes are you talkin about?
A great slogan, but if you mean it as more than just a slogan you need to flesh it out some.
If you mean it, perhaps you can clarify these questions.
Hi VQ! Feel free to ask questions with your other accounts and have conversations with yourself.
Don't play dumb about Goldman Sachs.
This is an ongoing convo between me and the other user.
You keep changing the conversation away from the thread topic.
Why can't you discuss the gitmo issue.? Are you under orders by your RW lobby group paymaster to avoid the subject of closing gitmo?.
I never talk to myself. Why are you afraid to answer my questions? Why do you distract with dishonest personal attacks against me.?
Why JUST Goldman Sachs?
What billions are you referring to.?
Which votes are you talkin about?
You are indeed a fast riser already the Official OWS Spokesperson well good for you.
I don't debate with paid hacks like you. Plenty of fools will, but I won't.
You clearly don't debate at all, punk
Oh and extra points for a classic use of that old GOP standby if you can't attack the message, attack the messenger.
Did you decide this during your whole day here?
Oh and I guess your ID has no agenda attached? How stupid do you think people are?
Hey, thanks for posting this.
That was a shameless bump.
You don't know they are paid. You malign them with that lie because you don't like their politics.
Mostly, we accept all political persuasions for the sake of debate (even pro deocrats).
Many of us hope in the end that we can 'turn' those who disagree with us.
Some, seek to silence opposing views. Frequently this is because their arguments are too weak to compete in 'the marketplace of ideas'.
Are your substantive arguments too weak to compete with the pro democrats so you have to spread unfounded lies, and personal attacks.?
Says the freak with about 20 handles
Fuck you. Deal with the handle you are faced with. And try to focus on the thread topic.
You're insistence on deflecting from topical substance to discuss personal username issues is indicative of vacant position.
Says the freak with 20 handles.
Stop harassing me. Vacant Troll.
haha. Easy vkag. You are right. People using multiple ids is a very honest way to operate.
Stop harassing me! Troll. I am not nor have I ever been vkag.
Stick to honest, respectful, substantive debate on the thread topic. In this case the Presidents continued efforts to close gitmo by not adding new inmates, and sneaking through a terror case in nyc over the objection ofthe war mongering republicans.
He issues executive order to attack African nations. He could issue one for this. He wont.
And everyone know you are Vkag. What a weirdo.
Exec orders? LOL. Attacking Africa.?
WE can force our govt to change military policy. Ending Iraq war, ending Afghan war, reducing drone strikes, are all successes that have come from the peoples protests.
We just have to grow our movements. If Occupy ain't doing enough then:
Code pink, Justforeignpolicy. Ufpj, Rootsaction, aclu, amnesty.
Join up, get active, Our actions are making a difference.