Forum Post: What’s the big deal about burning some Korans? Nobody gets upset about flags.
Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 28, 2012, 5:52 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8310)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Anybody notice that many of the same people who are saying that Obama went overboard in his apologies, (after all it was just some paper) are the first to propose laws to jail people for burning some cloth. The reason I bring this up is in regards to the “Golden Rule” can these people not understand that if you have things that you care about maybe somebody else does too.
I'm all for people being able to burn whatever the hell the want as long as it isn't my house... but it probably has less to do with the Koran and more to do with a 10 year occupation. People are a bit testy when they've had a foreign power blowing up their relatives for 10 years.
Plus its more than paper to them, things have sentimental value silly as it is. Wedding rings or religious texts or flags... some people are pretty infatuated with certain material things.
This got more attention than I thought it would so I want you to know my position:
My preference would be to live in a world where people did not feel the need to burn either one. I think there is a difference in a citizen making a political statement, and an agent of the government under the color of authority performing an act. I feel in all cases that political speech should be protected and official actions should be respectful of cultural beliefs. I didn’t really mean to get serious with this post, but people seem to want to talk about it, thank you now stopping by.
can't imagine Americans being upset about something like that, those people must be hotheads.....
I'm all for free speech too, but when violence occurs, things must stop. Burning bibles is okay for now as long as the Christians don't shoot anyone over it. People get attached to intangible stuff also, like their labor. We need compulsory volunteering, prefferably centrally located in work camps for convenience.
well that's the problem isn't it - a big component of freedom is tolerance isn't it? The people that get crazed about burning Korans will never make it in America.
It's not a justified war. America is not constitutional and has been deceived and manipulated into thinking that what its doing over there is okay. It's not.
Some here think that burning Gold Fringed Flags" is okay. I have to agree. That is the flag the infiltrating traitors to the constitution have been flying in their military campaign of fear imposed upon Americans.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/burning-gold-fringed-flags-is-a-good-thing-just-ma/
I admire your passion. Thank you for stopping by, please understand I am not in favor of burning either. I just like to point out hypocrisy when I see it.
I'm hoping that us, realizing that the acts of the gold fringed, illegal, imoral, unethical anti evolutionary usurpers, and reinstating our constitution, ending the fraud, will help the world realize that we are not to be hated because we didn't know the true hypocrisy that controls the nation. The flags and books are symbols for what is going on psychologically with the unconscious subcollectives. Both sides are unconscious perpetuating their agenda unconsciously through generation after generation of hypnotized children to the levels of somnambulism.
Our unconscious has become completly invisible to Americans as a society. The Muslims see it, other Pagans see it, we cannot. We see the symbols only and base war upon them.
ya who cares if anyone burns a quran, a bible, or a flag. Man wasnt made for the bible, the bible was made for man.
Interesting....does anyone get upset about burning crosses? Just wondering... Or Bibles?
I don't understand why it was o.k. for the people in the prison to be using the Korans to exchange messages. Isn't that altering the unalterable word of god? Isn't that blasphemy? And what do you do with a Koran when this happens? Burning it seems logical. I'm not Muslim so I don't know the answer. As for flags, we burn them when they get old as a sign of respect. What do you do with a Koran?
From what I can tell, you don't burn it.
Then what do you do with a blasphemous Koran? Stone it? Throw it in a garbage pit? Give it a sea burial? Think about it a bit.
BTW, what I think was the misstep here was not consulting local religious leaders about what to do about the books and making a unilateral decision to just burn them. Duh, duh, duh. Very ugly American of our military. The whole problem could have been avoided that way.
The causes of the protests in Afghanistan, by Glenn Greenwald: http://www.salon.com/2012/02/26/the_causes_of_the_protests_in_afghanistan/singleton/
A good read serious treatment. I do think that much of what is happening is using this event as an excuse, they want us gone and they are rallying around this. The whole thing could have been done cleaner from the beginning, I mean the war from the get go, I wish I had a good answer, I wish anybody did really.
anyone can order a free quran from www.cair.org i got one, its a well made book worth about a hundred dollars if bought at a book store. i find it mildly interesting like the bible. It has some good points and some outright incorrect things, like the bible.
Saw some interviews with Joseph Campbell where he told parables from several sources I was surprised how many stories I thought were only in the bible, were in other places as well just a little different. That was a long time ago, I’ve studied a number of people since then.
In some countries you are put to death if you say anything against the Muslim religion. This is clear evidence that a philosophy can not hold up to critical evaluation, and an example of the worst type of political repression. The shocking thing is that whole populations AGREE with this repression of freedom because they are not allowed to consider any alternative views. That is a serious problem which brings a lot of violence into the world and may prevent any hope of world peace.
If it were the last Quran or American flag in existence maybe that would be worth fighting to protect, but since there are millions of both around, the right to burn a flag in this country is what keeps us free.
This got more attention than I thought it would so I want you to know my position:
My preference would be to live in a world where people did not feel the need to burn either one. I think there is a difference in a citizen making a political statement, and an agent of the government under the color of authority performing an act. I feel in all cases that political speech should be protected and official actions should be respectful of cultural beliefs. I didn’t really mean to get serious with this post, but people seem to want to talk about it, thank you now stopping by.
Hey don't come in here spelling stuff right and making sense, OK?
No really thanks for adding to the thread, I meant to respond to your dreamer.org site but lost it in the traffic. I think killing people over religious insult is about as far from anything I would call spiritual as one can get. So mostly I wish it had not happened and I think anybody who cares about the troops would be doing and saying things that support the President in doing and saying those things he needs to in order to clam the waters. In spite of what a lot of people say, Bush 1 and 2 did it, Reagan did it and so on, people screw up and the President has to apologize.
You said, essentially: "Killing people over religious insult is as far from being spiritual as one can get."
That is an astute observation, and I wish everyone would make a point of repeating it to every religious person who has political power. I will certainly be repeating that sentiment whenever I can, so thank you, sincerely, for the observation.
You really made my day.
This is my reason for not only being here, but truly it is "my calling".
All I ever want to do, is help people express their own truth more effectively.
An interesting parallel that seems solid in one way
people who worship symbols are simple minded lemmings
but not so solid in other ways today, the people who worship a cloth or a bible won't kill to defend one
today, the people who worship a quran will kill to defend one
That's true, the abortion clinic bombings are down, and many are acting out now out of opportunity to disrupt as much as true belief, I suspect. I just believe that if you get upset about your symbols being abused you shouldn't try to make it more difficult for the President in his attempt to diffuse an unfortunate situation.
Specifically - I support BHO - but I think his appology is as sensible as trying to compromise with the rabid dogs who call him a foreigner & a muslim. I think the US commanding general in Afganistan should have performed this futile act.
The Afgan lemmings who worship a book, believe fatwas, crush women's rights are deaf to anyone or anything that proves they are wrong. They want their 72 virgins.
Remember - we had a law making teaching evolution ILLEGAL.
And American troglodites are trying to put it back.
Elsewhere I posted that you just turn the general over for their justice and be done with it, but that was half satire. I got a feeling that we are alike in at least one way; it's good we're not President. On 09/12/2001 I would have been arming missiles and launching the ships telling anybody that got in our way to expect a surprise in their capital, but in the end that's a good reason I'm not President.
I confess, the only time I was impressed by shrub was his initial restraint to wait to find the answers. It probably took him at least a week to read Condie's PDB from the previous month about osama.
The people in "their capital" did not do this. At no time was the world more with America - and then shrub tried to out shine his father and ruined everything. Why the hell didn't Gore fight harder in the courts???
He would have read the PDB and would NOT have attacked Iraq.
You’re right about the capital thing, I just mean I wouldn’t have been asking Pakistan to let us pass, like I said, better I wasn’t in charge.
I feel like we gave up on democracy in 2000, about half the country said we care more about wining and the other half was afraid of being called “sore loserman”. I mean really, is it just too hard to count all the votes?
If they die with there wives does she go to where the 72 virgins are too?
This got more attention than I thought it would so I want you to know my position:
My preference would be to live in a world where people did not feel the need to burn either one. I think there is a difference in a citizen making a political statement, and an agent of the government under the color of authority performing an act. I feel in all cases that political speech should be protected and official actions should be respectful of cultural beliefs. I didn’t really mean to get serious with this post, but people seem to want to talk about it, thank you now stopping by.
Do everyone a favor, @bensdad, & try one of these little experiments dressed as a Muslim:
wrench a flag out of the hands of a Marine or Rangers standard-bearer & set fire to it in front of their parade;
or barge into a Jewish seminary, or even a synagogue, in Israel & set fire to a Torah or Talmud;
...& see how long you survive
(btw, make sure someone videos it, so we can all have a good laugh).
I never laugh at violence
and I do not believe in either of these actions
and people who worship symbols can be very dangerous
ask a crusader who worships the "chalice"
I' m sure violence would occur
but not murder
specifically, "western" religions do not issue fatwas to kill people "western" bibles to not advocate killing infadels the quran does the insanity today, if you look thru a slightly different perspective, is nothing less than insane.
In America, some Torahs and Synagogues have been burned in the last decade - mostly by nazi/skinhead types.
How many Jewish riots in America have attacked nazi/skinhead groups and murdered in retaliation for those specific crimes?
In America, some flags have been burned in the last decade - mostly by radicals of some type.
How many soldier riots have attacked radicals in America and murdered in retaliation for those specific crimes?
In America, some buildings have been blown up - mostly by Saudi moslem radicals.
How many American riots have attacked Saudi moslems in America and murdered in retaliation for those specific crimes?
In retaliation, Zionist-controlled America bombarded & invaded two countries that played no part in 9/11 & posed no threat to the USA, slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent people & displacing hundreds of thousands of others.
Don't treat people like idiots! It's almost universally known that Bibles & Torahs (& priests & rabbis) encourage massacres, slaughter & genocide - that's why Judaeo-Christian countries have been doing exactly those things for centuries, all over the world!
I've seen a few of your posts I'm not looking for a fight, but I kept thinking I do want to speak up for the 9 year old child who thought her voice could matter and she was killed for it. After an election in which respected people had crosshairs on their websites, now truth is truth even if it hurts some people’s feelings.
no fight!
please elaborate 9 year old ???
The Tucson shooting, mostly people talk about Gabby Giffords, mostly I think about the 9 year old girl that died her name was Christina-Taylor Green. the Wikie link is here, of course I know you have heard about this but it is a detailed read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting
The Tucson disaster is a stain on America put there by a single maniac. I never said Americans are non violent - of course we are
We have to keep feeding the military industrial complex But how does this fit in here?
You mentioned that those who get upset about flags don't kill people while those who are upset about the Koran are. I was pointing out that we have deaths here, just not caused by mobs, while I concede that is a big difference, violence is violence.
I understand the idea that this was the act of one deranged person is valid, however I also feel that those who place violent images such as the crosshairs on their website, then are shocked that out of the millions who admire them a few are maniacs, I believe this is one thing that separates sensible leadership from unreasonable rhetoric. I do feel that these people got a pass on what they actually did to promote violence during the campaign given what happened
totally agree !
I knew we had a lot of common ground, I admit, a headline is a headline, so I do want to start discussion.
I think when people don’t have truth or reason on their side they reach for hatred or demons and that doesn’t help make things better, but it can work for a while, then you end up where the GOP seem to be now trying to figure out how to deal with some of the things Santorum is saying.
I've got two copies... I've struggled to read them because it is written so simplistically. And it's so repetitive in its simple minded, do-or-die-as-the-cleric-says, rhetoric. I plan to burn them both.
On the other hand, a behavioral do or die philosophy, is very effective. In fact, I have come to believe that Sharia Law has a place in America. And apparently, so have the Muslims; is there any wonder why?
So, should it be illegal to burn either one?
You know my preference would be to live in a world where people did not feel the need to burn either one. I think there is a difference in a citizen making a political statement, and an agent of the government under the color of authority performing an act. I feel in all cases that political speech should be protected and official actions should be respectful of cultural beliefs. I didn’t really mean to get serious with this post, but people seem to want to talk about it, thank you for stopping by.
No - Tolerance is freedom. Obviously you have no idea what Sharia is or you are crazy.
I don't know what the heck you mean about sharia, as it does not pertain to this discussion. I do in fact know what sharia is.
I was responding to betuadollar above.
[Removed]
I would have bet a million dollars that even after he apologized,,, they would still want to kill us. Yet during the run up to the election 4 years ago obama said he would sit down,, across the table,, and explain everything so those that hated us,,, would love us,,,, AGAIN. RIGHT,,,,,,,,,,,, pal.
This makes no sense at all, says nothing about the post and yet is better and more on point than you usually are. Guess it’s all relative. Next time you see somebody burning a flag, just imagine it’s a Koran and you will so much better I’m sure.
I am ALWAYS on point. That is why everyone MUST respond. I'm more on point than you give me credit. I piss everyone off,,,, Im so on point. That is the real issue.
ahh meanless jibberish, that the freedis i remember wb, eat any babies this morning?
How about some apologies by Sudan for bombing Christian churches set up by an organization run by Rev Graham.
I wonder how many bibles have been burned? Or American flags for that matter?
I have absolutely no sympathy for Muslims hurt in these Koran riots.
Burning a Koran is apparently a good way to get rid of some meddlesome Muslims, if recent history is any indication for their behavior.
In a way you make a good point. But.. Muslims murder. Defenders of the flag don't.
Well there was that thing in Oklahoma City a few years back and then that thing in Tucson more recently, wasn't just the flag, but birds of a feather and all that.
America's "Defenders of the flag" (i.e. her armed forces) have murdered countless tens of thousands of innocent civilians (mostly Muslims) in wars of aggression, just in the last decade (& millions in the last couple of centuries)!
Millions? What millions of Muslims?perhaps you would feel better if you spit on the next military person you see.
No, dummy:
about 1 to 1.5 million Filipinos (including Moros), in the US conquest of the Philippines (1899-1913);
& about 2 million North Vietnamese, Cambodian & Laotian civilians during the Vietnam War (1965-75).
...and that's just 2 of many US Wars of Aggression in the last couple of hundred years.
If you learned a bit of History instead of just US Govt. propaganda, you'd know about these things.
I'd be willing to bet I am more educated in history than you are. And you said "millions of Muslims" . How many Muslims lived in Vietnam?
I never said (or, indeed, wrote) "millions of Muslims" - you wrote that. I wrote countless tens of thousands of innocent civilians (mostly Muslims).
Clearly, your grasp of English is as shaky as your grasp of History.
" and millions in the last couple of centuries". And you did say mostly Muslims.
English 101:
The "millions in the last couple of centuries" clause refers back to, & builds on, the "countless tens of thousands of innocent civilians" clause, earlier in the sentence.
The "mostly Muslims" clause is in parentheses, which indicates that it only qualifies the immediately preceding clause (i.e. the "countless tens of thousands of innocent civilians" clause).
That's English syntax & grammar, both of which are as key to clear communication as vocabulary - you Americans should try learning some of all three!
Sigh...you aren't nearly as intelligent as you think you are. Obvious.
You, on the other hand, are so dumb that, instead of presenting anything resembling an intelligent argument to support your original assertion, you can only resort to ad hominem & xenophobic attacks. Obviously.
[Removed]
99% of OWS are sociopath's. Who could have guessed?
[Removed]
Van Jones, ... let's see the king of the SEIU, ..
The main-man in the Public Prison Union racket the 500LB gorilla of the politics in the USA.
It's funnier than hell, OWS get's idiots on the street and FEMA/DHS photographs them and 'detains' them, and the prisons grow and SEIU grows. If these people weren't idiots they would see that they were lambs for the slaughter, ... but they're idiots and they will be slaughtered.
[Removed]
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-bitter-sweet-victory/
Pull all troops out, drop a nuke and be done with that wasteland. Nothing comes out of Afghanistan but opium, terrorists and fallen empires.
And what will you do with the 1,000,000,000 muslims who will retaliate?
simple solutions for simple minds
must be an Rs
[Removed]
As I said everybody cares about something.
[Removed]
Clearly you are neither a fan of the golden rule nor turn the other cheek, if you don't mind me asking do you think Jesus got anything right?