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Forum Post: What's Liberal About Unions Crowding Out Our Services?

Posted 2 years ago on June 12, 2012, 7:55 p.m. EST by Growup5 (-84)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The left lines up behind public unions as reflexively as Pavlov's dogs salivate. They see unions and the history of labor fighting for working families and some balance against the powerful. But that's not what happened when unions invaded public jobs.

Unions in public work have upended what unions were supposed to do. Instead of fighting the powerful for a fair deal, they exploit their neighbors by electing the own bosses who then stop representing the neighbors and start just representing them. They hold our government hostage and have crippled the ability of our government to respond to the people.

The country is now paying the price. Unions are relentless advocates for tax increases to protect their benefits and job security at the expense of their neighbors that don't work for government. The mission of government to serve the people is steadily being ratcheted in as the money increasingly gets diverted from programs and into benefits.

This article provides some good examples of what's going on. There's nothing liberal about it and it's time for liberals to know it.

Occupy the unions: Demand reform and your government back.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-11/why-the-public-sector-isn-t-doing-fine-.html

103 Comments

103 Comments


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[-] 5 points by GREGORYABUTLER (7) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I'm really surprised to see this kind of anti union nonsense here.

Bottom line, opposing unions serves the interest of the 1% and hurts the 99%.

Also, the simplistic "analysis" in this post has absolutely no relationship to the real world. Public sector unions don't dominate the political process, the billionaires and their lobbyists do.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Unions and public unions are different things. One looks to balance power with management, the other looks to corrupt our government and hand pick its own beholden bosses at the ballot box. Smarten up.

[-] 4 points by Chimptastic (67) 2 years ago

I think I understand your opposition to public sector unions, but the fix must be elsewhere. I couldn't, in good conscience, revoke the right of workers to organize into a union simply because of who their boss is.

Also, setting aside the virtue of workers electing their boss, wouldn't even non union public workers be electing their own boss too, or should they not be allowed to vote either?

If you want to correct undue political influence, let's find a solution that doesn't violated the right of workers to organize. After all, the last thing we want in a constitutionally limited Republic is for one group to vote away the rights of another.

As to public sector benefits, the goal should be trying to elevate private sector benefits up to that level. Private sector workers should organize and fight for better compensation, assuming they aren't already unionized, or demand more of their labor represenatives, assuming they are.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

But public sector workers do exactly that. They vote away the rights of others. They vote for their own bosses who in turn are beholden to them and sell out everyone else. Their benefits are gradually sucking the oxygen out of the room and the rest of government is dying. Liiberals should care about this.

But draining via taxes the people you're trying to elevate to the level of their employees gets people no where. Paying their own workers better than they're paid as a mean of being better paid themselves is a line worthy of a televangelist.

Here's yet another town in trouble over the corrupt dynamic between unions and the politicians they help place.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Some-employees-pensions-exceed-salaries-city-3629017.php

[-] 4 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Really, so all those shiny new drones, giant homeland security bureaucracy, the grab bag of goodies for military contractors, the militarization of police departments (with all those shiny new and expensive toys used for vital missions like suppressing free speech), give away's to oil companies, insurance companies, banks, etc. etc. etc. Nahhhh ... that couldn't have anything to do with it (that would destroy the mythology that fills the space between my ears & vomits out of my pie hole). Duh!

But no worries, the democrats have pretty much abandoned unions anyway. Bending over and being the semen depository of the 1% is apparently much more lucrative.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

I know, liberals simply think there's more hiding someplace if they can just get their hands on it.

[-] 4 points by myows (133) 2 years ago

If we're going to have an honest discussion, there are a hundred reasons this country is in a financial hole. Some get the left wing rightfully angry (corporations that outsource American jobs and pay no taxes.) Some get the right wing foaming at the mouth (too generous pension/benefit packages of some public employees) If we're going to fix the problem it should all be on the table. I'm interested in preserving the country for our kids. The problem I see with knocking down the public unions is the following

First, "Public sector union's are bankrupting the country, we must get rid of them!" Next, "Private sector union members are "thugs" ( Rush told me so), we must get rid of them!" The end result, Billionaire business man to all potential employees---"Why should my company pay you anything more than minimum wage or give you a pension/healthcare/sick time/vacation time etc...? HA! nobody offers that anymore!"

There will be rich people and minimum wage workers, nothing in between.

[-] 4 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

Don't forget we need to lower minimum wage, as per Herman Cain, to $3 an hour, so we can be "competitive",

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

a reassessment of resources and goals

There will be rich people and minimum wage workers, nothing in between.

the unemployed are on the outside

[-] 1 points by DoubleVoice (115) 2 years ago

If the conservatives have their way, unemployment will be a death sentence, since welfare and any sort of social safety net would also be eliminated.

[-] 3 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

Nice of you to drop by growup.Another Scab attacking working people and our unions.Always the attacks are behind the screen of computers or a line of police.Just another coward with no balls.

[-] -3 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Nope, just shedding some light of day on the government unions that act like termites on our municipal finances. They'd have loved to keep at it in private, but the downturn is bringing it all to light all across the country.

The cowards are the ones with government jobs, slugger.

Here's another city waking up to what's been given away.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Some-employees-pensions-exceed-salaries-city-3629017.php

[-] 3 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

This country has a very long history of scabs.People have always rose up against them.Check your rear view we are waking up.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Yes, government union members are waking up. When the dues isn't mandatory, they resign in droves.

[-] 2 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

Keep hiding behind your computer Scab Boy.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Keep hiding behind your government job. Getting nervous that taxpayers are starting to uncover the scams? The recession peeled back the roof and now the light of day is doing some long overdue disinfecting. It's only the beginning of the upheaval heading your way.

[-] 3 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

Nobodys hiding Scab.I don't have a govertment job.Any job is good unless the position is filled with a scab.Union people stick together.Scabs on the other hand are only loyal to there pockets.they are the Benidict Arnolds of working people.The lowest form of labor to be spat upon.No morer than a human ass wipe.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Union people stick together. But they should use their brains once in a while too. Government union people stick together to stick it to you. It's working people paying taxes to support the working people that work for government. Smarten up.

[-] 3 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

Nobody sticks it to you.Except for your tax dodging, Criminal, war making,Socialised losses.Private profit,enviorment destroying.Scab loving corporations.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

But I still don't think my town needs three guys on a simple truck to change a street light. Government unions have become utter parasites. The towns they continue to dominate will simply die like Detroit. Then, they'll be all that's left wondering what happened. When you wrap up your GED, you might be able to figure this out for yourself one day.

[-] 3 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

Again a scab who attacks from behind a computer screen.A true american coward.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Cowards are the ones that need government to get them a job.

The people want their government back. They're tired of the corruption, they're tired of the budget problems, they're tired of the tantrums, and they're tired of their employees living better than they do. And even the union members themselves are tired of it. When given back their own freedom, they drop their memberships like flies. Unions operate by force. Freedom is their worst enemy.

[-] 3 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

NO son it has all been said before.Yours is the outlook of a true Scab..After the industrial base of this country was destroyd and its jobs shiped .You Have only the goverment unions to attack.You are envious of there pay and benifits.Not that there pay is anything to brag about .You prefer a country of Walmart workers.LOW LOW pay and no benifits.You yourself will do well because you are a scab.I can see that you do not care for your fellow man and most likley would do very well in 1930 's Germany.You talk about freedom but what that means to you is Greed.You have lots of little facts to back up your false assertions.But the old adage figures lie and lyers figure does apply to you.So you see in the end you are just a scab and a coward and all working people know that.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

No, I prefer a country where government operates for the benefit of the people, not just the people that happen to work there.

The entire system of government unions needs a good hosing down. Reform is heading your way. You're going to have to stand on your merits, not behind the skirt of your government union.

[-] 3 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

You oppose all unions.You are only concerned with yourself.The problem is not goverment unions .You oppose all unions.You applaude the offshoring of all union private sector jos,As the industrial base of this country was cored out you extolled the benifits of the savings for your corporations.You do not care about goverment fiscal responsibility when it comes to the Military.Corporations.Tax breaks for the one percent.Now that you have sold the American people out you come to privtize all public commons.Teachers.defense opperation except combat arms. Post office.highways.Prisons.You cowardley wave the American flag but have never served in it's Armed forces.You paint your self as the advocate of personal responsibility.But in reality you have non toward your fellow man.On a personal note I am retiered Teamster # and know a yellow egg sucking dog when I hear or see one

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

You are clearly an asshat.

It is not unions that has destroyed the economy, and transferred all the wealth from the many to the few, it is the military-corporate-banker fascists,. the few. They use the systems that where once meant to provide social uplift and turned them into systems of wealth extraction from the many to the few. Your hate of public unions is clear,. under all your names you hide,. as you are a little tinny child afraid of reality.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

If my dislike of public unions is clear, great. Now if liberals could finally comprehend that there's nothing liberal in closing libraries to fund retirement packages unheard of by the typical taxpayer that pays for them, progress would be made. Public unions are choking state and local government to death.

All the downturn did was reveal the rot and corruption a bit earlier than it would've come out otherwise. In that way, the "bankers" did us all a favor so that more "Wisconsins" can take place before it gets even worse and even more has been given away.

Here's just part of what California did. Really, you'd want the public to not discover this for another 5 years? Not me. Thank you downturn. It turned on the lights.

Cool, university spending down, pension spending up. That's a way to build a future! Nothing liberal about it. Nothing.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-17/california-s-bad-bet-makes-jpmorgan-s-look-minor.html

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

Sure, no governments have "borrowed" from well funded pensions, for 'other uses' and then found they could not pay back those thefts? Pensions are funded from the workers working dip-shit,. not the tax payers. Your lack of understanding is clear, and your intent is also,. you are a corporate whore, selling bull sht to confound the weak minded and cloud their understanding of what is really taking place. Endlessly bitching about public sector unions and no criticism of the actual problems and issues we face is clearly the act of a greedy anti-people mindset. Any money in the hands of teachers and garbage collectors, is ten times more helpful to the economy than money in the hands of the "job creators" or more accurately the 1% money takers.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Funded by workers? Huh? It's tax money. Tax MONEY. TAX MONEY.

Funny how bankers are greedy, just never government employees that demand tax increases to fund benefits unheard of by people they expect to pay for them. Nope, no greed or tone deafness among union members that demand tax increases to remain untouched by recession from taxpayers that have been clocked. Good thing it isn't greed demanding tax increases so that union people can avoid 1 cent coming off their pensions while taxpayers just added years to their working lives. LOL. Heh, dumbass, the "money in their hands" is coming from other people in the "99%".

[-] 3 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

NOTHING should be coming off someones pension! The idea of a fixed income is that you know what it will be, and can plan accordingly,. this is why workers PAY INTO THEM!

If the corporate "elected-representatives" had not plundered the pensions funds to give to their banker masters. we would still have the money that should never have been touched to begin with. You are shilling for the lowest common denominator, race to the bottom. It only serve to show your greed and avarice, and utter lack of humanity. Workers being able to retire is a good thing,. bankers taking more for themselves is not so much of one,.

So tell me, why do you side with the 1% over your own people? as I am sure you are a worker and not a billionaire,. just another class traitor siding with power in hopes of getting a pat on the head ???

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[-] -3 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Sorry, but there's gonna be something off of them. The amounts are impossible to fund and taxpayers have been cheated by collusion between unions and their stooges in elected office to hide what they did. For jurisdictions that don't compromise, they'll just see economic decline as able taxpayers and businesses pull up stakes. They'll also increasingly see government services crowded out as liberals and unions chose excessive benefits over the actual mission of government. Economic decline awaits areas that make themselves pension toxic.

[-] 2 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

If the pizza guy is union do you give a tip?

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Why, will he threaten to break my windows if I don't?

[-] 2 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

What about the old lady working at mcdonalds.Do we tip her I don't think she is in a union.Can we tip low wage slaves.You know what conservatives want for all americans.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

You can give your money to whomever you please for whatever reason you come up with. I have no idea what sort of point you're making, but if tipping a pizza guy or the lady at McDonalds is a question for you, write Emily Post.

[-] 2 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

Well since these will be the majority of jobs in this country.Low pay no bennies,I thought I would ask someone who advocates them.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Psst, heres's a secret: When everyone gets in the government job cart, there's no one left to pull it.

If you want to take some pressure off of working families, give them their government back and stop raising taxes to pad the entrenched employees that work for them.

[-] 2 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

Your real beef is not the goverment.It has never been.You have no beef if the job is some kid humping an M-16.Your beef is people that atre not the one percent making a living,Where is your problem with the American manufacturig base being cored out?Have you a care that most private sector jobs have been shiped.No you are only concerned weith the last large segment of a union work force.You want tax relief where is your thread on raising corporate rates to that of Union workers.You are a hippocrite and do not speak the truth.

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[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

The tiny minority working for government are paid for by taxes off your prized "99%".

Unions in government are a corruption. It's bad government when the employees get to elect their own bosses who then in turn sell out the rest of the voters. LIberals, for some bizarre reason, line up behind this corruption. They support a system that fires teachers because of retirement benefits (that taxpayers don't enjoy). And when they do fire teachers, liberals support doing it by seniority and not merit and that harms children. Nothing liberal about that either.

[-] 3 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

Hate to bust your bubble But as I said you are ok with the military .or any goverment function of the established right.Your problem is working people.That organization the people have formed to represent them.And that those who have organized them selves are able to extract fair wages and benifits.TAX PAYERS WHO HAVE COME TOGETHER TO FORM UNIONS STILL DO HAVE PENSIONS! I and many Americans still do after years and years of offshoring.Americans will continue to form Unions .You have many Scab talking points.But nothing of any substance.Now go bitch about how much money of ours goverment waste on the millitary and not some under paid teacher.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Go ahead, form unions. If you put a company in a crazy position, the market will discipline that. If you can bargain for something and not demand that government interfere with your competition (like how auto companies fought to deny us the right to buy a Japanese car) or make people pay dues, it's all completely fine.

But when you get involved in government, nah, we should pass. It's a corruption to vote for your own boss. For anyone too dense to understand what's been going on, look at Wisconsin. Rather than strikes or other work actions, the unions went straight for replacing the boss. It's bad governance for the employees to own both sides of the table, but that's what they seek.

Being called a scab by an advocate of government unions is a complement.

The good news is that the downturn turned the lights on and now the whole country is talking about it. Reform is coming. It's coming the easy way like in Wisconsin or the hard way like in Stockton California with municipal bankruptcy, but it's coming. Even liberals are starting to wake up. Rahm Emanuel, Andrew Cuomo and liberal-union die-hard Democrat nuts in Rhode Island are starting to get it. They all see the same thing: Bankruptcy and a shutting down of everything government does to fund the employees or reform. The unions, of course, fight everything thinking we really would just sign them over title to our towns. We won't.

Smarten up. Government has a purpose beyond paying union extortion payments. Be a liberal and shed your corruption.

[-] 3 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

I am an advocate of working people.With out the collective partnership of the people they will be destroyed by capitalism.This is a fact.This is what is happening in America here and now.Your capatalist security state is not going to make it unless it changes again.It has had to do so in the past and will do so again.Think new deal etc.As far as Wisconsin I have no idea why any one would put there faith in a two party system that is a horse of the same corrupt color.And yes anyone who speaks out against working people are indeed Scabs.All your talking points are not valjd when people know the truth of corporate exploitation.

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

I advocate for working people too, working people that employ the working people working in government. See, they need their government back. They're on to the trick of how the workers pick their own bosses at the ballot box and how rest of the people then lose out.

It's bad governance. Liberals should be against it, not rabid supporters of this corruption. The unions have sunk the tap line too deep into the well spring of tax money. We really aren't just going to hand the unions title to our cities, counties and states.

Reform is coming. Pucker up butter cup, the era of being insulated at the expense of your neighbors is coming to an end.

If that's being a "scab", I gotta tell you, then I'm really proud to be a scab. Beats being a parasite.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Conservatives seek to conserve civilization

Liberals seek to expand civilization

Socialists seek to help people

Libertarians seek to help themselves

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

LMAO !!

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

It is not a Liberal or conservative thing my troll buddie.If you are for cutting goverment where is your outrage against corporate tax rates that equal next to zero.Where is it against the largest most bloated military in the history of man . Non existant.No you are upset because some cop fireman .teacher .mailman. Has the only few blue collar jobs left that pay a living wage.People that work are not "parasites"Only a Scab would make that claim.All scabs think that only they work and contribute.Sorry to bust your bubble and the pink elephant you come in on.Your Neo - liberal garbage does not work with working Americans any longer.Now look down on your takking point list and give us another B.S. rebuttle.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

It isn't about cutting government, it's about preserving it. The unions are eating it alive as they increasingly divert tax money away from services and towards their benefits.

[-] 0 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

Perhaps you are talkin more to the military.Figures estimate 60 percnt of tax dollars.Or perhaps you are refering to Corporate subsidies.Or just the fact that Corporate tax dodging.No your main beef with the unions is that they generaly support democrats.Why I do not know as they seem to be on the same Goldman saks gravey train.Also unions in the public sector are a force that prevent privatazation of our Public resources.As for preservation you have no loyalty this goverment.You view it as a tool to enrich yourself and your corporate masters.Hence again no outrage at military expenditures.Prison industrial complex etc.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You should know all about Pavlov's dogs; you've been well conditioned.

Workers deserve every cent they earn. Maybe you believe that you're overpaid, and I wouldn't doubt that. Still, real wages for workers have not increased by a significant amount, since Ronnie the Popular implemented trickle-up welfare.

It's time for you to really grow up, straighten up, and realize that you've been shafted by the 1%.

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

You should realize that your state and local government is being drained of its capacity to function by union benefits, benefits unheard of by the taxpayers.

Here's another city that's being slammed. I guess it's liberal to do this while the rest of what they city is supposed to be doing is crowded out. Smarten up. It's a disgrace that liberals support this looting.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Some-employees-pensions-exceed-salaries-city-3629017.php

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

LOL. "Occupy the unions."

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Why not? They need an education too. Just not in the way intended by the post. Outreach and inclusion. Eventually we all need to come together.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

Unions are about protecting jobs- no matter what. Other than that there are many different kinds of unions. They're all different. I have to agree with you though. They need to understand society won't tolerate good-ol'-boy BS any longer. Not at work.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

And they should come together with the rest of the workers and unite in common cause - workers rights and a living wage for the lowest paid worker. Diversity is fine but the real power is in numbers supporting common cause.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

That's a tough one. I don't see why they can't be more supportive of a reasonable minimum wage that would apply to non-union workers. Unionizing is just one of a number of solutions to problems that may exist in the workplace.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Unionizing is on a small scale of what the American people need to be doing together as a whole. All of the issues of unions are issues of the people and vica versa.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

I agree.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Issues can unite us.

[-] 0 points by Misaki (893) 2 years ago

Any idea on how to discourage strikebreakers when unemployment is still above 8% (and more expansive measures of unemployment even higher)?

I mean, other than using this: http://jobcreationplan.blogspot.com/

1 million job applications for 50k openings for McDonald's last year. If you think people won't apply to work when a union goes on strike...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You have a problem with reality. The stuff you push is non-sense and that is being kind.

Take a look at reality:

This is the all time best speech ever. I also put it out on twitter. If people want a blast of reality straight out of government - then they need to hear this speech. Bernie Sanders in full rant.

http://link.upworthy.com/4fcfcb2462047742c9927ebbi92r.48p/T9iCqi0W1Y4m0TA2C5066

But you won't because it will upset your thinking.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

"Instead of fighting the powerful for a fair deal, they exploit their neighbors by electing the own bosses who then stop representing the neighbors and start just representing them."

Not caring about your neighbor is an ideology that stems from the right where "I" has grown to be a hundred times more important than "We". Perhaps current union bosses do act more like Reagan Democrats and concentrate money & power at the top. Perhaps they bought into the trickle down theory and figure money will flow down into their neighbors hand - eventually. Heck, I hardly blame them for acting the way good rugged individuals should - they take care of themselves and everybody else can fend for themselves. Way to go Ronnie. You really made the world a better place.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

We'll put you down as supporting what's happening. Enjoy when your libraries close because the employees have essentially become owners of your town.

[-] 0 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

I'll buy you a beer if it happens.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

You'll be buying it for the unions.

There's nothing liberal about crowding out what government does to provide benefits to employees that their taxpayer bosses only dream about.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Can you rephrase that in a way that it makes sense?

[-] 0 points by Misaki (893) 2 years ago

"More unionization leads to more outsourcing." Simple enough?

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

Does Germany outsource there industrial base? Does Japan? How about those wretched Scandanavian countries?Are there politicians also tratiors to there workers? It would seem not.

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 2 years ago

Does Germany outsource there industrial base? Does Japan?

I know that Foxconn assembles electronics for many companies, including Japanese ones. German companies are probably the same. The "supply chain" is global for many businesses, and this idea of a "multinational" company is not restricted to US corporations.

Germany's largest trading partner is China at 9.7% of imports (so about $100b per year).

Let me guess though, you own an iPhone?

Job creation without higher government spending, inflation, or trade barriers: http://jobcreationplan.blogspot.com/

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

No old flip top.I am always ten or so years behind on most things.It is very hard to buy anything made here anymore.Germany and northern Europe seem to be able to provide a better living for there people on a whole.They do trade with china but have they cored out there indutrial base to them.I would think not.

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 2 years ago

Hm, well... more statistics from the world factbook.

Germany:

GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 0.8%
industry: 28.6%
services: 70.6% (2011 est.)

United States:

GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 1.2%
industry: 19.2%
services: 79.6% (2011 est.)

Japan:

GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 1.2%
industry: 27.3%
services: 71.6% (2011 est.)

They are different... but the US seems to still be doing fine. The US is more unequal than most other developed countries... the CIA factbook has a strangely high number for inequality in Japan, but other sources generally rank Japan as being a very equal society.

For example, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_the_number_of_US_dollar_billionaires

US has 13.2 billionaires per 10 million population, Germany has 6.4, Japan has 2.0 despite roughly the same GDP per capita as Germany.

Japan does have a higher percentage of USD millionaires but maybe like Singapore, it counts retirement funds while in the US it's a national fund...

You say those countries haven't "cored out their industrial base" but...

Germany does export machinery, but it also imports it:

Imports - commodities:
machinery, data processing equipment, vehicles, chemicals, oil and gas, metals, electric equipment, pharmaceuticals, foodstuffs, agricultural products

For Japan (22% of imports are from China):

Imports - commodities:
petroleum 15.5%; liquid natural gas 5.7%; clothing 3.9%; semiconductors 3.5%; coal 3.5%; audio and visual apparatus 2.7%

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

Thanks very good info.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

GDP can be inflated by counting money transfers that do or produce goods or services

like stock and money trades

GSP Goods and Services Product

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

More Misaki leads to more work conservation. Yep. got it. thanks.

[-] 0 points by Misaki (893) 2 years ago

That was the old name, silly, and it wasn't sexy enough. Now it's called the accelerated work week.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

AWW, aint that cute.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

What to talk to liberals? Try huff post.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

Maybe your calculator is broken?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You're full of shit.

100% pure shit.

[-] 2 points by tr289 (916) from Chicago, IL 2 years ago

Couldn't have said it better myself ! lol

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I've just grown tired of explaining it to them over and over. So why pull punches, when it's the umpteenth time it's been brought up?

There is no reality in his description.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

But you said nothing. You're in Chicago. Do you think Chicago is sustainable with the union stranglehold? Do you like having 3 guys ride around in a truck to change street lights or trash collection that costs 3x what it does in Houston? Will you really choose government types retiring at 55 over having streets and libraries? Even Rahm is figuring out how fucked you are.

So, have some fun. Where does Chicago get the money? Or as a government employee flunky, are you simply unable to work out the math?

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

A living wage should be standard for everyone. Union or not. I believe that unions need some work - but I also believe that they are good for all of the working class people.

Where I think you are confused is blaming union for economic problems caused by officials in Government State & Federal that are in the pocket of Buisness - Corpo-rat-ions.

Not paying taxes receiving subsidies outsourcing work under paying workers ruining the environment.

[-] -1 points by tr289 (916) from Chicago, IL 2 years ago

Were you dropped on your head when you were a child ? No shit i didn't say anything, because i couldn't have said it better. moron.

As for the unions here in Chicago... They have little to do with our financial problems.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Ask Rahm about that one, even that liberal is doing his version of "Holy shit!". Chicago's government unions are gradually consuming the city's finances. The same is happening at the state level. It's going to get uglier and uglier as the unions fight even the smallest reforms and more and more of the city's services get crowded out trying to keep up with the payments. But they can't and eventually change will come. But what a mess it'll have to be before reform can take place. Chicago is fucked. Illinois is fucked.

I used to live there and now am so glad that my family and my wallet is out of reach of the kleptocrats in Chicago and Illinois. The income tax went from 3% to 5% without any reforms and they didn't make a dent. 7% isn't far off. What a mess. It's all going to get much worse. Greece of the Midwest.

You might not know this either, but the major pension funds in Illinois will be exhausted by around 2017. Benefits get paid 3 ways: 1) contributions; 2) earnings on the fund; 3) distribution of fund principal. 2 out of 3 will be dead in 5 to 7 years. I read an analysis that concluded that by 2020, 60% of Chicago tax receipts will simply be going to retirees. And you thought you were paying taxes to maintain the streets. LOL.

[-] 4 points by tr289 (916) from Chicago, IL 2 years ago

lol, keep dreaming.

Chicago is in debt because of the massive corporate tax breaks we have been giving corporations in Chicago over the last 10 years. Add in our crumbling infrastructure... Is it any wonder when property taxes and other fees have gone up ? It's the great republican lie, lower taxes on the top few and shift the burden to the average working citizen... It creates jobs. Not only does it not create jobs, the average citizens don't have the money to pay for it.

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Those "tax breaks" were special deals that had to be cut because of high taxes. You'd be collecting NOTHING from those companies had they left. Chicago is headed for some serious shocks as companies finally do simply begin to pack up and move to places like Texas as they see the writing on the wall and continued failure to implement reforms.

Taxes lower in Chicago? Hardly. They continue to escalate. The state itself even decided to take another 2% of income. Sales and property taxes are also higher. Without reform, they'll continue to grow and grow and grow because, for the unions, no level of taxes is too much.

Chicago is completely fucked without major reform of its unions and fast. I always knew Chicago and Illinois were corrupt and in the bad pocket of the unions, but now the house is about to cave in. I'm lucky to have left when I did.

[-] 0 points by delayedgrat (-157) 2 years ago

Chicago has an ELEVEN PERCENT SALES TAX. Why would it be in debt? Thats 3 % at least more than most other cities. Why is there any need for tax increases?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I think you are being to kind. Grown-up is anything but grown-up. Perfect corporate shill blaming victims for his masters machinations.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

What can I say?

There is NO reason at all to limit workers ability to collectively bargain.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Correct - it is a part of free speech - it is part of living in a democracy - it is part of not being a slave. Communications are essential.

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

This just demonstrates how thoroughly neolibe(R)tarians have poisoned World politics.

It's something strong unions can help negate. Why do you think they have been so weakened over the last several decades?

[-] -3 points by camams (7) 2 years ago

It was very funny to see the liberals crying like little bitches when the taxpayers of Wisconsin dropped the hammer on them.

[-] -3 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Pure reality. Liberals line up in support of the unions that are sucking the life out of the programs they claim to love. They're answer: simply more. Take more and then more still and more again, and this won't be a problem. But from a public reeling from the recession, more has hit the wall. Places like California and Illinois are stage-4 union cancer patients. It needs to change.

It's time for reform and it's time for liberals to support it. There's nothing liberal about shutting down programs to fund retirements most taxpayers only dream about.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - it is time for reform.

Penalize outsourcing

Rework free trade agreements to compete on a level playing field with domestic products.

Stop subsidies to all businesses that are making profits - like fossil fuel.

Tax all businesses that are making profits like energy companies and holding companies.

Raise taxes on the wealthy including businesses.

Prosecute white collar crime.

Put an end to usury.

OSTA.

Money out of politics.

end earmarks and other conflicts of interest from government.

Invest in green technology in a major fashion to end the use of fossil fuel as a fuel - for anything.

Upgrade education to meet a technical society.

Put a cap on profits and funnel money back to the worker to give everyone a living wage on 40 hours a week.

Universal Health care - end for profit abuse.

All this and more.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I agree with a lot of this except the capping profits thing. First off, every single business is different, so it is a logistical impossibility. Second, you have no right to tell someone that is working their ass off what they should do.

[-] -3 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Put an end to people that don't pay for government demanding more government. That's you.

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 2 years ago

http://jobcreationplan.blogspot.com/2012/06/nonviolent-solution-to-political.html

Read and learn... or don't read, or don't learn if you like.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (24945) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Eat shit you look hungry - been spewing a lot today have you?

[-] 0 points by elf3 (2738) 2 years ago

Private unions are necessary - though I don't agree with protecting bad employees - public unions are a joke and scam - and abusive to the tax payer

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Agreed, public and private unions are two different animals. It's shameful how public unions try to hide behind the skirts of private unions.

There was a great story out this week about a Teacher of the Year being laid-off. Why? Budget problems. Why are there budget problems? Pensions. Why her? Seniority rules forced by the union. We lose and kids lose. Thanks unions!

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