Forum Post: What trace of Capitalism will there be in the new world system ?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 17, 2011, 1:29 a.m. EST by FriendlyObserverA
(610)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Very little.
It all depends on how far in the future the "new world system" you're referring to comes into play and under what circumstances it does so. If you're talking about the distant future (as in more than one or two hundred years) then it's entirely possible that we'll outgrow the current left-right economic spectrum and go somewhere entirely different. We can't really predict what that would look like or how much of it would be familiar, but it's a fun thought experiment.
If, on the other hand, you're talking about something within the next decade or two as a result of the Occupy Movement, then the answer is probably going to be quite a lot of it. Most of the people in this country aren't disenchanted with capitalism so much as they are angry about a specific pattern of abuses and the lack of any serious attempt to prevent or address those abuses.
I don't know, It would seem we are at a pretty significant crossroad at the moment
Fair response
In my opinion the world system should have as one of it's main pillars "cooperation". Many individuals cooperating will do more than many individuals on their own.
Very nice thought. And I agree.
What Does the Future of Capitalism Look Like?
"The more I thought about the future of capitalism, the more scrambled my brain became. In a previous job as editor of a European business magazine, I had examined the alternatives to globalization, but that was 2004 and the world has changed beyond recognition since then."..................
First, Richard Layard, author of Happiness and a prominent economist, calls for an end to 'selfish capitalism', urging us to create society where we stop worshiping wealth and start appreciating people. Second, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, the President of Brazil, says that while nobody dares to predict today what will be the future of capitalism, he is more interested in the sort of society that will emerge from the crisis. His vision? A system that will reward production, not speculation, a controlled financial sector, no protectionism.... a new and dynamic system of global governance, new energy policies, reform of systems of production and consumption, a world free of dogmas presented as absolute truths, a more just and democratic society. 'Lula's' account of his own journey from an impoverished childhood to political and social reformer is inspirational in itself.
Both authors call for a more humane society, based on collective rather than individualistic values. Far from being idealistic views, they are being echoed widely among business and political leaders, economists and academics. In the gathering of world leaders at Davos in January, Bill Gates called for a more 'creative capitalism' while Britain's opposition leader, David Cameron, set out the case for 'capitalism with a conscience.'
http://blogs.hbr.org/corkindale/2009/03/what_does_the_future_of_capita.html
With such beautiful dreams for future civilization. Capitalism will not hold on to it's greedy ways much longer.
Thanks for the great comment.
As an American, having lived in the die-hard republican state of Texas my whole life, I've always believed in Capitalism by proxy. However, the more I participate in the discussions here, the more I find myself believing Capitalism is seriously flawed to favor individualistic selfishness and....well, is just stupid.
This is my new favorite quote:
“We are all at a table together, deciding which rules to adopt, free from any vague constraints, half-remembered myths, anonymous patriarchal texts and murky concepts of nature. If I propose something you do not like, tell me why it is not practical, or harms somebody, or is counter to some other useful rule; but don't tell me it offends the universe"~Jonathan Wallace
Yes. Peaceful discussion. There is hope. And hope is growing stronger as we open our hearts and lay down our weapons.
I believe all humans yearn peace.
I find 'rational reasoning' the greatest tool for peace. The idea of 'peace through strength' is counter-intuitive to rational reasoning. How can you obtain peace by adopting a violent attitude? It's utter nonsense.
We are emotional beings. Our emotions tend to fuel our actions. It will take someone special to create peace.
name one communist nation that isn't having a poor economy and poor people.
Communism also has extreme wealth. And corrupt government.
Thats unfortunate. Without capitalism we are going to live in one shitty system.
What facts are you basing that opinion on?
The fact that I want to live in a free market Republic, not a socialist piece of shit communist country.
The Libertarian test: Do you absolutely believe poverty to be a result of individual choice, and society plays no role, simple yes or no please?
No, but that doesn't mean those people get to sit at home for years without even looking for a job. It does not take two years to find a job!
What facts, or other credible standard, are you basing those opinions on?
The fact that welfare is two years and that is far too long!
That fact does not support your earlier opinion at all. You said it does not take two years to find a job. What facts support that opinion?
The fact that I have absolutely no job skills or previous experience and I have been offered (after actually APPLYING) 6 different jobs in that past 6 months. Not only that, but I am only 20, so I am not even ELIGIBLE for some jobs!
You are 20 and I am 60 (not my age, I'm older than dirt), not old enough for retirement yet not young enough to be an 'interesting job applicant'. Yet you believe that someone in this catagory could easily find a job? Youth...it is said youth is wasted on the young....
A young man (young by MY standards not yours), has arthritis, he has other conditions, none of which are conditions he sought but rather inherited via genetics. He does not want to receive government benefits, he'd rather work.
He's has a resume, has been a kitchen manager, a custodial manager among other things...he applies for the jobs that are available in the area he lives in, moving is not an option due to funding issues, his living expenses are minimized by the kindness of those he lives with, he makes the contributions he is able to the household.
He's told his accent makes him sound 'uppity' and is not hired, he is told he's 'overqualified' and will not be happy in the position offered. Yet he is willing to do any job that his physical condition will allow and some it won't.
Basing opinions on personal experience is what most people do, yet there are millions of personal experiences which are exact polar opposites of yours.
When I was in business, I liked those 20 somethings, we used to call them 'young and dumb', because they had a lot to learn about what the real world was and how it works...I too was once 'young and dumb'.
Basing facts on your own experience does not neatly overlay on top of the different experiences of millions of people and explain their experience. Your invoking an opinion of everyone, so use information that has studied everyone. Otherwise, you are casting a social opinion, and nothing more.
There is NO way you think someone can't find a job in six months.
Have you heard the term 'great recession'? Do we live on the same planet? Why do we have an unemployment rate? Where do you think jobs come from - a magical job tree?
I've looked at the statistics and they ain't pretty.
.... There is NO way someone cant find ANY job in six months. Especially when all of their bills and expenses are basically covered. Im not saying they will find the dream job that pay 2 trillion a year to sit at home and have sex with beautiful women (or men). One of the big reasons some of these people stay on welfare so long is because they won't take certain jobs. Like they are better than everyone else? Well from the America that I come from, we take whatever job we have to to get where we need to.
You said you are 20 years old and have not had great difficulty in finding work. Okay, but the long term unemployed aren't the young. This article addresses it with statistics.
Who Are the Long-Term Unemployed?
Part of the article:
Nearly a third of the 14 million Americans who are officially unemployed have been out of work for more than a year, enough to fill the state of Louisiana. That share of total unemployment has grown by 50 percent since December 2009. These aren't merely the long-term unemployed, a term the Bureau of Labor Statistics defines as being out of work for more than six months. These are the long-long-term unemployed. The 52-weekers.
What do we know about them? The Pew fiscal analysis of the long-term unemployed gives us a picture. They tend to be older. Forty-five percent of the unemployed people over the age of 55 have been out of work for more than a year.
Full article: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/chart-who-are-the-long-term-unemployed/247845/
LOL....yeah trolls will do that....we all get caught up in their fancies sometimes....It wouldn't surprise me if this one was a BOT....
Check this out for more info on them....
http://www.existor.com/
http://testing.turinghub.com/
Have a convo with a known BOT.....
Much like this really.....but of course, as I said....keep them 'on the line' when you have them on a good thread....then they can be used to promote those idea's and ideals that appeal to you....
No....not worthless....As I said, he's promoting a good thread....that's nice and useful I suppose....But from other threads and ahhh 'conversations', I've had with this user.....that's probably the end of their 'usefulness' here....
He is just really driving me crazy. Like I dont know why I argue with him, its like arguing with a parrot that only knows a few words, so he just repeats them.
Hey....keep Jflynn64 on the hook! I love these trolls.....so nice of them to promote decent threads, and bump them with a vapid expression, and no clue as to why they say the things they say....
So you would agree with me that he is worthless? I do not mind a serious or light-hearted debate but he is just repeatedly attempting to bash me.
Your personal experience does not dictate reality. if you get beaten till the sky looks purple, that does not mean the sky is purple. using the "lazy welfare family" to prop up your argument is a classic for those seeking to legitimize their hate.
1 job per every four applicants in most areas
again, 1 job for every 4 applicants. try push pull and bitch doesn't change reality.
1 job per every four applicants in most areas
Thats funny. Because I have no job skill and little experience and have gotten job offers for the last 6 out of 8 applications i have filled out. There are plenty of jobs, people just need to be willing to take them. I'm not saying its easy or quick, which is why I think everyone should be more than welcome to a MAXimum of 6 months of welfare, provided they pass random drug tests, and show documentation of weekly sincere attempts to apply for any sort of job. Furthermore, should they turn down a job offer, or intentionally not get a job, they should be fined and subject to a probationary meeting to decide if they are still entitled to receive funds. Does that really sound so harsh? I am all for helping people, but these people should be willing to help themselves as well.
They wouldn't let me into A&M because I wouldn't vote for Bush.
Sigh... You do realize that I am in no way offended by this? And I think almost every single person on this site would side with me and agree that you are being quit intolerable.
I'm the idiot. I'm not the one who is a Republican voted for Bush, goes to A&M, who lost UT six times in a row and has carnal relations with my family. I'm the idiot.???
I'm not a republican. I am a conservative, with a few libertarian tendencies. I did not vote for bush, as I was only old enough the second time around, but was not registered. What the hell does football have to do with ANYthing? and I love my family very much. They are the only thing besides God that I have, and I would appreciate that you not insult them. The ironic thing is that the whole incest stupid hick thing isnt even a Texas stereotype. That stereotype was created more for the Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi region. And even then it is rude and uncalled for.
Doctor of what...animals and family don't count. Please take Bush with you.
You don't even provide a valid argument, you just insult. Well according to statistics, debaters who begin insulting nonstop do so because they feel less intelligent and inferior. Sorry you feel so low.
Vets and agriculture...steers and queers?
You are an idiot. Do you eat? Well you can thank an Ag for that. You act like Ags are dumb hicks, while at the same time relying on them for sustenance. Unless you eat air, I suppose.
You and your retard cousin?...who slept with your sister? Go back to that hick school of yours and let the real boys handle things. Take back Bush and let Texas be its own country
If things keep going the way they are going, I hope texas does just that! And Also, I dont have a sister. So good luck getting my cousin to sleep with her. Would you care to take a little gamble on who has a higher IQ? Or perhaps the fact that I am (successfully, mind you) studying to be a DOCTOR of physical therapy is enough for you to recalculate your assumptions?
6th public school in your mid maybe. Your Republicans need to admit to your dumb mentality and admit that you can cross breed with your cousin... or the steer at A&M. Because your economics and politics are piss poor.
Oh and even liberal ass USA Today shows that the Princeton review chose A&M as number 9. You wouldnt know it as a good school, in fact considered to be the best in the country for vets and agriculture, because you just like assume things you dont actually know.
And you need to learn some respect. Before I fuckin shoot you.
Hows that for hick?
DIdn't you guys lose to UT again this year!!! And were so embarrassed that you fired your coach. Get your gun because we coming for your money. And in your dreams is some hick school 6th in the nation, keep believing.
Some hick school? I am sure getting sick of judgements like that. And naturally, I mean 6th best public university.
Listen Child, Obama is winning the next term and we will take your money with higher taxes. If you wan to throw int he gun so be it. By the ay, what a bunch of wussies UT is this year . Do you play football in Texas. ?
Uh, no. and I dont go to UT. I go to the number 1 school in Texas, and number 6 in the nation. Texas A&M. And I am in no way insulted by any of your remarks, because I would be happy to shoot you, and I dont give a damn about TU football.
Get out of here you Bush lover. Fork over you pay check because it's coming. We are taking your money.
I did NOT like Bush, but I'd probably pick him over Obama... or just leave the country more likely. You want my money? Come and take it. I have a nice shiny 12 gauge shotgun that says you will not get one red cent. See, we have a law here in Texas that allows us to shoot and even kill people trying to steal from us. So do me a favor, and try.
Most human had lived without capitalism on the earth.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text
Yes, and none have lived with the freedoms and success America has to offer.
True America Has freedom and success but for everyone to enjoy the same success capitalism doesn't offer that. Capitalism is like a sinking ship with all the rats scrambling to the surface.
You are right by capitalism standard becouse America only good at making US dollars and weapons.
Yeah! And fuck the rest of the world. Why should we try and deal with every single government? we have our own to worry about,
I am a world citizen first, and an American second, after all, I could have just as easily been born somewhere else.
Make sure you dont vote for Obama then, he's killing in other countries to help the dollar.
There really isn't a lot of voting options. I only get to choose between the lesser of two evils. I find neither choice appealing. The corruption has to be taken down before any vote will really count.
So will you cast an endorsement, or place a protest vote?
I think I'll focus more on casting endorsements at the local level. It's time we start building a new government from the bottom up. For a presidential vote, I'll wait and see how things stand, it's too early to say. And depends entirely on what third party candidates might arise. But so I don't cop out on your question, if the only practical choice is between Obama or Newt/Romney, I have to vote Obama. That would suck rotten eggs, but the latter choice would be like voting for warmongering.
Thats a joke right? You know the current guy is bombing 7 countries? Building 4 more bases in Africa? Building base in Aulstralia?
Doesnt matter whether its Obama or Romney, same thing. Just worded differently.
No, it's not a joke. The guy just ended a war. If either choice is the same, then what do you care if I vote or not? Do you really think we're going to end up with some other outcome than one of those three in the wh?
Ended the war? You know there are still plenty of troops there? And we are still droning them. And we have over 10,000 contractors there, along with 7,000 "diplomats".
Im just saying, a vote for ANYONE is an endorsement. Im trying to find out if the country is ready for real change yet. I guess not.
You're getting tiresome. You offer complaints and no solutions. Quit whining. That won't bring change either. The only real chance we have of bringing change is to do what Puff6962 has suggested numerous times, find a candidate who will end the corruption, make him sign a pledge that he will do it, and back him. But all I hear is more endless whining --- so tiresome.
Im down for what Puff said. You are the one who is going to vote for Obama. Im just trying to figure out how you can be in OWS and support Wallst's chosen one.
I ran out of room to reply. If you recheck my earlier comment this is what I said, For a presidential vote, I'll wait and see how things stand, it's too early to say. And depends entirely on what third party candidates might arise.
You are misinterpreting everything I said. I not down for Obama, I said he would be the lesser of two evils. And if you're down with what Puff said, then you would know he has said more or less the same thing. The democrats are salvageable, the republicans are beyond hope.
Haha, you sheep kill me...
Let me know when you are ready for real change. There are plenty of us willing and able, we just dont have the numbers/desire yet.
No your not. Go to Iran and tell the ayatollah your part of his citizenry.
Yes I am. I am a poor starving child in Somalia because I choose to empathize with their plight.
Good for you. I love Somalis too. Whenever I need a cab I ask for a Somali driver, because I want to help them out. You go ahead and starve with them, I'll help them out by supporting their business.
The Libertarian test: Do you absolutely believe poverty to be a result of individual choice, and society plays no role, simple yes or no please?
The Marxist test: Do you absolutely believe that government must provide for the well being of every citizen regardless of an individuals choice? Simple yes or no please.
No, I think there should be some balance, both societal choices and personal individual choices factor into success.
Nice turnaround on me, btw.
Fine. I agree, as well. I am not a true libertarian, at least in the purest sense. I like our safety nets and think they are needed. I believe we have way too much government, and I hate the crony capitalism. I also like the idea of community service in exchange for chronic welfare users.
I believe we have much in common then. I could agree with a lot of those things. I hate the corruption in our politics (who doesn't). To me, it is the most critical thing we need to get rid of.
I don't blame you for being a jaded citizen. Corruption in politics has been my biggest complaint for years, and I agree, that we must get rid of it. I am completely disgusted by the insider trading scam these people get away with legally. To exempt themselves from the new healthcare plan is an utter disgrace as well.
That is a stupid idea. you are an american FIRST.
Any one who has an idea that doesn't agree with yours is stupid. That is a unique view.
All i am saying, is we must secure strength in our own country before we have the capacity to help others. we cant help anyone if we cannot help ourselves.
Are we talking economics or military strength? If economic strength, I agree. If more military strength, I strongly disagree, we already have the biggest military in the world. Hell, even, Mayor Bloomberg brags about the size of his NYPD army being the seventh largest in the world. Maybe that's why we're broke, fighting wars without paying for them.
No I mean economically and with our internal infrastructure. definitely need to downsize all forms of government including military.
I agree with everything on the whole, but government includes a lot, so I might not agree with details.
I think our government needs to shrink, and leave everything alone.
That is vague. And now I have forgotten completely why we are conversing. What we're we talking about? Something about world citizen or the like....oh well.
US government is controlled by who has capital.
Says the man up to his knees in it "
What new world system? Clean up your own house before worrying about your neighbors.
I am not worried about my neighbors. Just trying to advise them to get their head out their ass. They have obligations as world leader to LEAD.
Proven Fact: Politicians follow the directions of lobbyist that spend money to benifit them not the 99% of Americans. Politicians / our so called elected officials are obligated to the lobbyist and the big corporations and the big banks. There is some big trouble headed our way and these pricks can't fix it. Nearly 14 trillion in debt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-3hZsXrxaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQqjTxI3vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
new world system? You think there will be a new system. hahaha Are you kidding me? OWS isn't going to start a huge revolution.
Only despair. The commies like you will rule, spreading tyranny to all.
Every capitalist owned business is owned and run as a dictatorship. All your fortune 500 people are in fact dictators. Are you proud of that. ?
Of course. I own my business and if an employee and I don't agree on something, it will be done my way. I am a dictator.
Careful what you say under that user name, Farley is my great uncle.
Farley is a great man. You? Not so sure.
www.mowatsparty.com
He was, he is a distant relative. My Grandfather knew him, but his family came to Canada in the 19th century, where as we immigrated after the second world war.
That's why I am concerned about people who express their personal opinions under the guise of his name.
Dude, I have the utmost respect for the old timer. I have the utmost respect for ihalmiut people. People of the deer was a masterpiece of the 50's. So was ,The Desperate People. Read farleys works, he is a strong man that few are like today. My favorite was The Ordeal by Ice. What a historical synopsis of barren people and the terrible struggle they fought. Did Farley get it right for the most part young mowatsparty? nephew? I have been reading uncles books and been admiring his ballsy set of testicles for many years, since puberty no doubt! I am soft and he is solid. If he is your uncle, I hope your set is a comparable unit compared to Farley. Might have to change my handle, if mowat out pisses me!
Farley was actually banned from the United States for speaking out against environmental issues, from what I recall.
He's a member of the Green Party, which I support, but am not a member of. My father is a member as well. But I don't know or have contact with Farley directly.
You can see where we get our political roots from; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Mowat
Farley is an interesting character, he does exaggerate a bit in his stories (like any good author), but his descriptions are clear. But many of the things he spoke against, war, native rights, the environment... they are still ignored today.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/01/pm-first-nations-leaders-to-meet-amid-reserve-crisis
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/climate-forces-inuit-onto-thin-ice/2006/05/26/1148524886121.html
OMG I LOVE FARLEY MOWAT!! If you use his name in disgrace i will make sure one day YOU are lost in the barrens!
Listen arcticaardvark. Lost in the barrens is a children's book! Even old righties like my self and the committee comrades can dig this storywje nfack is being whuwere canniour loved onels
so whats your point? btw worst typer ever!