Forum Post: "What is our one demand?" Hmm...good question...
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 18, 2011, 10:05 a.m. EST by OccupyCapitolHill
(197)
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I remember the first Occupy poster, just do a Google image search for "Occupy Wall Street". The line at the top reads "What is our one demand?"
Which begs me to ask...what IS OWS's one demand? There has never been an official leadership structure, no list of demands, no proposals, no base goals declared. So I ask...
What will make this movement happy? What will satiate the mob? You liken yourselves to the Egyptian revolution. Remember that even after Mubarak stepped down, there were some who remained to protest in the square, claiming that the job was yet not finished. I have a feeling even if society did change something towards the views of this movement, that many more would remain and still protest, and this would just perpetuate endlessly.
So, specifically, what is your one demand? What will make you guys happy? And what guarantee do we have that once you get what you want, you'll mellow out?
you are part of the 99%. Only you can answer that question. What do you think is wrong with our society and how do you think we should go about making change. We want to hear everyone's constructive ideas on what you see as the best way to move forward. Go ahead name one thing that bothers you about how things are run today and lets talk about a way to fix it. That is why we are all here to listen and put ideas into action.
Washington needs serious reform. Congressmen vacation on taxpayer funds. They are exempt from insider-trading laws, even if there are laws being debated that affect the corporations they hold stock in. They use our hard-earned paychecks to bail out failed mega-corporations that should have been allowed to fail. They then waste trillions of dollars on a stimulus package that, itself, fails entirely. Their gluttony has produced 15 trillion dollars in national debt and debased this country's currency on the world stage.
We need to elect non-careerists to public office, and for those that we elect to office, be they careerists or not, we need to hold them accountable. Congress should be under the law, just as every citizen is. They must have 100% transparency. They must answer for the misappropriations of taxpayer funding. Congressional officials should have their fat salaries withheld until they resolve the economic crisis that they created.
There's so much wrong with the national government that needs to be addressed, but I don't hear more than a few people talking about it, and it drives me crazy sometimes.
"They are exempt from insider-trading laws, even if there are laws being debated that affect the corporations they hold stock in."
Pass HR1148 "The Stock Act" and this practice ends.
Well it sounds like we are pretty much perfectly aligned with what we are disgusted with in politics. As for not hearing more than a few people talking about it, we had at least 32,000 talking about it in NYC on the 17th according to the NYPD. and hopefully due to that exposure more people will be talking about it. I really like your point about not having career politicians in office. The smartest people who are sometimes derogatorily referred to as technocrats are the ones who are best educated in making those decisions. Italy has taken that step in order to get themselves back on track, they have put in all non-politicians who are the best at what they do. We need more academics in office who have spent their lives studying the most effective ways to run an economy, not people who's only goal is to get re-elected. I have yet to see anon-politician economics professor or some other person in similar field run for office. We need real brains in office. Great point. Lets see how it pans out in Italy I think it is the best thing they could have done considering their situation. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I too hope more people start talking about these issues, it has to start with a real national conversation we need to make it a point to keep bringing these issues up with our friends and family even though politics is supposed to be off limits at the dinner table. It is not about left and right politics it is about coming together and talking through all of our options we have so many countries with so many different ways of governing and economic models that we should be looking more pragmatically at what has worked and what hasn't in recent history. perhaps a historian would make for a good leader.
Ah, Yes. The One Demand thing again. It's like this. The crew of a large sailing ship has discovered that it is way off course and sailing into oblivion. The captain and all of the ships officers are besotted and unresponsive. Is there one single action that could return the ship to a reasonable course? Not really. It's quite a bit more complicated than simply using the rudder to turn the ship around. An assessment of the ships officers capacity to serve, inventories of supplies, determining the ships location and desired destination, trimming the sails and many more things must be done to get the ship right again. The one demand? Even to ask that question illustrates that one may not have a grasp of the problem. It is as if asking a mechanic which one single part on a worn out engine would he replace to restore the original performance. It would be so lovely to find that one thing that could set us right again but that would be persuing a fantasy. No this will not find resolution in a single action but instead in a series of steps many of which cannot be determined until a firm foothold is established on those steps preceeding them. I would say that the first step is to call attention to the problems so as to excite a national debate. This is the step currently in progress and though it is making some progress though not as fast as it would were the major media outlets to cooperate. A democracy cannot steer out it's destiny without an informed population to participate in the decision making process.
I disagree, there is a single change that will allow all other changes; remove big money from our political process.
Fix the country and correct the errors of the Courts and make it so the Courts can no longer make these errors.
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-to-the-constitution-of-the-united-states-of-america
The FOUNDING FATHERS made their meaning clear when they drafted the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES and the AMENDMENTS.
Thomas Jefferson - “I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
Thomas Jefferson - “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
Thomas Jefferson - “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.”
John Adams - “Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or will ever do good.”
James Madison - “History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it’s issuance.”
"ARTICLE—
"SECTION 1. We the people who ordain and establish this Constitution intend the rights protected by this Constitution to be the rights of natural persons".
"SECTION 2. The words people, person, or citizen as used in this Constitution do not include corporations, limited liability companies or other corporate entities established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state, and any such corporate entities that are subject to regulation".
"SECTION 3. All entities except people, person, or citizen as used in Section 2 of this amendment are excluded from participation in the political process".
"SECTION 4. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to limit the people’s rights of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free exercise of religion, freedom of association and all such other rights of the people, which rights are inalienable".
My one demand would be:
a Constitutional amendment to negate the Citizen's United ruling
what's citizen's united ?
It seems to me that if there is one demand most would agree with, and that resonates with most people across the political spectrum, it would be the need for serious campaign finance reform; putting an end to the practice of politicians being literally indebted to wealthy campaign contributors instead accountable ton their constituency.
Income inequality is a commonly expressed grievance, especially as it relates again to disproportionate political influence.
Constitutional Convention 2013 and a casting out of all corruption and perversion of it's very clear language.
Bring back the 13th Amendment and duly note the 16th has never been legally ratified.
Everyone shall be required to know it and prove they do.
Anyone who does not, shall have NO voice or position in The People's government.
English literacy is an absolute requirement.
I want world peace.
No such thing exists. Human nature prevents it.
fatalistic
Unfortunately there is no one redress for a generation of lobbying and favors given, but below are a few possibilities.
Restoring Economic Equality
• Change Corporate, individual Tax System to Spur U.S. Job
Investment & Promote Competition. Keep Low tax Rates for U.S. Job Investment. -Credit for demand side- wages, profit sharing -Credit for supply side- new plant, hires, education Higher tax rates for off shored/outsourced operations.
• Shore up Safety Net programs • Restore key government job losses ; teachers, police ,others • Review defense needs; two full war planning assumption • Breaks for startup companies • Improve education: public school capability and funding methods, preschool, community colleges, college loans, grants
• Review and change anti-competitive laws and regulations • Market Research and Planning-private sector /govt. jointly • Raise minimum wage • Foster progressive state income taxes vs. regressive sales and property taxes • Foster Union creation and membership • Change Home Mortgage payoff formula to provide for earlier loan principal payoff • Selectively, address excessive health care charges; prices and excess tests, procedures
Restoring Political Equality; Voting and Influence
• Remove Voting Impediments; ---Registration; ID requirements, same day registration and voting ---Make Election Day a National Holiday ---Extend Early Voting, Absentee Voting for all those who cannot readily go to polling places • Public Campaign Financing • Low Limits on Private Campaign and PAC contributions; Override Citizens United Case • Term Limits for Supreme Court, Congress • Post-Election Term Employment Restrictions for the Congress • Lobbying Transparency • Mass Media Reforms; Free Election Campaign Air Time, Reinstitute Fairness Doctrine, One Station for Free Public Air Time • Independent State Commissions for Defining Congressional Districts • Military Draft to Supplement volunteer force in war time
I do enjoy the fact that this is all copied and pasted.
I'll tell you what the people want, simplified. A government that once again represents the interests of the majority instead of the corporate criminals. Everything else varies by individual (hence, real democracy) and is a sub-set under this main umbrella.
Yes, corruption is something that always exists. But when a system gets so out of control, a protest/revolution naturally comes up as a counter balance. Did you know that the wealth inequality in America is now greater than in any other developed country on the planet? It's a cycle that's been going on since the beginning of human history. We just happen to be alive during one crazy time.
For decades now the corporations and special interests have had our "representatives" bought and paid for (both on the right and the left). Don't get distracted by the symptoms - we need to address the root cause. Concentrating our efforts on getting the money out of our politics is the best way we can create an environment in which further reforms can be realized. Until we end the current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbying our politicians will continue to be the LAP DOGS of the corporations and special interests. What we need first and foremost is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! If the corruption is not dealt with first, the chance of any other meaningful reforms becoming a reality is almost zero - the special interests will just use their money to buy votes and put forward bills that create loop-holes or otherwise twist the law in their favor. If we want our children to live in a country where there vote matters, we need to get the money out of our politics, otherwise they will increasingly become the 21st century version of the "landless peasant." Spread the word - End the LEGALIZED BRIBERY!!! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM needs to be THE main goal of the protests!!!
In my personal opinion, the biggest problem is the fact that the representatives of our government that were supposedly voted into office by "the general population" do not in any way, shape or form support the views and values of "the general population". I feel that the best solution is to remove the entire concept of representation of the people by a smaller group. And, using modern technology and technological infrastructure, replace the current system of governance with a direct voting system. Whereas EVERY decision, EVERY law is voted on by EVERY citizen. Thus, the laws and regulations our societies abide by TRUELY reflect the beliefs of the majority.
Fix the country and correct the errors of the Courts and make it so the Courts can no longer make these errors.
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-to-the-constitution-of-the-united-states-of-america
The FOUNDING FATHERS made their meaning clear when they drafted the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES and the AMENDMENTS.
Thomas Jefferson - “I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
Thomas Jefferson - “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
Thomas Jefferson - “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.”
John Adams - “Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or will ever do good.”
James Madison - “History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it’s issuance.”
"ARTICLE—
"SECTION 1. We the people who ordain and establish this Constitution intend the rights protected by this Constitution to be the rights of natural persons".
"SECTION 2. The words people, person, or citizen as used in this Constitution do not include corporations, limited liability companies or other corporate entities established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state, and any such corporate entities that are subject to regulation".
"SECTION 3. All entities except people, person, or citizen as used in Section 2 of this amendment are excluded from participation in the political process".
"SECTION 4. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to limit the people’s rights of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free exercise of religion, freedom of association and all such other rights of the people, which rights are inalienable".
Cap corporate executive compensation.
Two months in to this and you have no idea what you want. GREAT MOVEMENT.
We know we want change.
Individuals have individual complaints. We are in the process of consolidating these into a unified document that represents those points that are most common amongst those people participating. Individuals and other groups are already in place for the individual complaints like the abortion debate, civil rights, etc. This group not only recognises their importance, but hopes through positive reform we can change things on a larger scale than any one issue. It would be like trying to pick the best leaf on a tree, the clearest drop in a lake, or the most perfect grain of sand, to try and consolidate all of the issues we face into one oversimplified demand.
I suspect that 90% of the "movement" would be satisfied with something as paltry as campaign finance reform. On the other hand a signficant and very articulate minority will not be satisfied with anything less than a total democratic transformation of society from below which would necessarily include an end to corporate power, which is to say an end to corporations as such as institutions, which may well take several hundred years or at the very least decades.
Actually there is a list. I assume it is in no particular order.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
a little weak on ending war
Not my list...LOL.
I think this list was the consensus of the first few GAs and was 'published' shortly thereafter.
So I'd assume that a stronger stance on ending war would be part of a continuing list in the future
There is time to plan
it's comprehensive to what I have observed for over a month on here
I'm not in favor of term limits
It's a list, what can I say. We used to make lists for Santa for Christmas and we sure asked for the moon and took what we got.
much of the list is about reform not gifts
The point is the list. Just because something is on a list doesn't mean that something is going to be removed, enhanced or change in any way. It's just on the list.
The reference to the Santa list was an attempt a a bit of humor, sorry you didn't like it.
sometimes compromises are made
but don't let compromise give less than can be achieved
Yes, sometimes compromise is made and most times compromise can be good. That is why when seeking one asks for more than they truly want because the end result usually ends up being closer to what was actually asked for.
I'm am deficient to that wisdom
it is dishonest
That's bargaining and it leaves both parties with options.
Let's try this one, you don't like term limits, and I do (doesn't matter either way it's for the sake of discussion). You'd like me to come around to your way of thinking and I'd like you to understand my point of view.
So we begin the process to compromise.
I want 2 terms and out. You want indefinite terms. I point out my arguments, such as 'with indefinite terms we'll see more of our congress people loosing interest in the business of the country, we currently have at least two congressmen who sleep through sessions and vote the way their aids tell them to vote.
You counter with, admitted some are a little up in years, but they do a good job for us so they must have good aids.
I say, Aids aren't the ones elected to represent the populace and often name recognition is what voters respond to, rather than the issues.
Now where do we go from this point?
Thank you for posting this!!!
You're very welcome.
According to one of the articles on this site,
"We are truly a people's uprising embodying the revolutionary spirit of economic justce, mutual aid, and participatory, concensus-based democracy."
We want justice for the people who were targeted by predatory lending practices, instead of bail-outs and vacation packages for the people that authorized it. (Just one example)
We believe in mutual aid. No one person should go hungry while having to watch the decadence and willful disregard of the peopl by the same government that was founded to prevent that kind of stratification in society. (Again....just one example)
Participatory, concensus based democracy means that the people elected to office should represent the majority including the economic majority. That their votes should be based on the needs of their constituents instead of corporate campaign donors and lobbyists. (Again just one example.)
The problems are broad and complex enough that the response must also be broad and complex. We are trying to address thos things that are getting in the way of our government doing it's job. We need to go from a culture of "good enough for government work" back to "do the right thing, everytime".
So the slaves/indentured servants should make a list of demands and give it to TPTB... Yea, that will work..
In the meantime OWS is creating a system outside the system...Sooner or later they won't have to make demands, they won't be asking..
Yes, actually you should. You will continue to fail until you accept the fact that without a specific mission, all OWS is doing is making noise and tapping into very GENERAL frustration with US politics and the economy, which is shared by 9 out of 10 Americans. However only 1 in 3 Americans supports OWS. If you want to create some equilibrium between those two statistics, you need a singular goal.
No..It's better to keep you people guessing...You may be confused as to what strategy is being deployed or why people don't operate the way you think would be suitable...That's the point..
OWS isn't failing, Our entire system, the way it's going, is...OWS is a symptom of this failure.
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I may just be one looney motherfucker, but for starters:
Let's Play a Game... round up congress and make them play the SAW games. Last one standing gets a prize.
So you basically want to assassinate everyone in Congress. You do know there are a small minority of representatives who are actually good, respectable people, right? While the majority are most DEFINITELY corrupt, you must consider the few good men that are stuck in the middle of the mess.
Hey, I'm not the one making all the rules....
You still want to kill hundreds of people in the most sadistic, gruesome way possible. Not only would SAW-style killings completely de-legitimize OWS's debate about police actions, it would solidify the view that OWS is a pseudo-terrorist mob. Be careful what you wish for...
Now you're just putting words into my mouth. STOP IT!
I'm not, I'm just saying, be careful. If you really think the world is watching, think about how the world would react to you chopping off the body parts of your leaders and coldly letting them bleed out. Are they great people? No. Do they deserve to be slaughtered? No.
France wasn't too worried about it during their revolution to take the power back from the privileged. I think we have advanced to the point we can use metaphorical gulliotines this time around.
Well they would sure slaughter me if they ever got the chance, and that's a fact. I'm only speaking in self defense or preservation.
No, they'd just go golfing on your paycheck. See things more realistically. If they wanted to kill you, they'd have called in the National Guard to do the deed against OWS by now. They're just the same old corrupt politicians that have played their part throughout all of human history. This is nothing new, and we certainly do not have a group of sanguinary warlords in Congress, just a bunch of greedy, selfish slobs.
Understood. Thank you.
First, there are several undertones. Nothing official yet: Restore the regulation that were removed allowing the stealing to go on. Prosecute the thieves.
And...all the guarantees are that there will be many more demands. A long list.
If you don't know what OWS wants I question where in the hell have you've been? It must get lonely having your head stuck in a hole.
So why don't you explain it? That is...if you have an explanation, in which case, I'm all ears.
Did you not read the Declaration? If you're to lazy to read you can Google Keith Olbermann @ Current TV, he actually read it on his show.
That declaration is a set of over a dozen objectives. I still ask, what one demand will make everyone happy?
Actually, I believe the message is very clear & its up to the politicians that are suppose to be working for us to do something about it! Especially, if they want to keep their jobs!
BWA Ha ha ha!
asd;lkjg
OmG! That's way way too funny!
So, specifically, what is your one demand? What will make you guys happy? And what guarantee do we have that once you get what you want, you'll mellow out?
whew.
Kay.
This is an international movement in opposition to social, economic, and environmental justice. That covers a lot of territory. I'm only one member, but my position is that while you of the one percent sort out what might or might not mollify those of us who have taken to the streets, we'll be busy bringing down the repelican party -
based on the fruit of their own lips.
Once they are gone, I'm sure those of you who are left will have come up with a cogent set of proposals to set things right.
We'll be happy to look it over at that time.
Funny how you assumed that I'm in the 1%. And the Republican party. Because neither are true.
It would do you good to note that you said this was a movement "in opposition to social, economic, and environmental justice". First, that means you oppose that justice. Probably a grammar error, but still I found a giggle out of it. And in any event, two out of three Americans doesn't care for OWS. You want to earn more than 33% popular support in this country, where it matters? You NEED directives.
Funny how you blame the Republicans when the bailouts and the stimulus package, both examples of how the people were robbed by Washington, happened under a DEMOCRATIC Congress and a DEMOCRATIC White House.
Point number one - you are absolutely correct - a typo. mybad.
It should read: This is an international movement in opposition to social, economic, and environmental injustice.
You caught me in a genuine moment of hysteria - I was laughing that hard.
Personally I do not blame the bailouts on either party - not directly. The conditions that lead to that necessity - absolutely.
The bailouts actually began under Bush. Many repelicans were opposed.
And what would have happened to our economy if GM had been allowed to founder? The answer should be obvious. If you would contend that allowing the demise of such a large employer, one who employs both directly through it's own plants, and indirectly through subcontracting - if you would contend that the failure of such an entity would have been good for either the country, it's citizens, or even individual members of either party . . .
then you are a fool sir, and there is no room for debate.
The failure of a mega corporation is never good, but look at what you got in exchange. It would have been the lesser of two evils to let them fail. The capitalist system isn't built on the idea that corporations are everlasting. The economy wouldn't have gone under for this long just because several corporations failed.
you are a fool sir, and there is no room for debate.
Who made that web site? Who says that is/are the demands?
Anyone can just make up a web site and make it look real.
Anyone can claim leadership of OWS.
You need to appoint leaders.
JUSTICE!!!!
Specifically, what do you mean when you say "justice"...
That one word carries with it an entire universe of implications in many different iterations. You NEED to nail down ONE singular POINT.
I may just be one looney motherfucker, but for starters:
Let's Play a Game... round up congress and make them play the SAW games. Last one standing gets a very special prize.
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You people are clueless. You still don't get it do u? Its kind of ironic actually, but then we know from experience that you don't do irony or nuance or anything past the bottom line cost of everything, do you?