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Forum Post: What if everyone refused to work for these minimum wage jobs and other pittance wages?

Posted 10 years ago on Dec. 13, 2011, 8:47 a.m. EST by BlueRose (1437)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I think no one should respond to an ad that does not clearly state how much they will pay, or a good estimate. OWS should also encourage everyone not to take any ridiculously low-paying jobs.

We all really need to band together, help each other get through a financial boycott like this. We must fight to stop the exploitation of workers. I say our 2012 resolution should be not to spend one dime on frivolous stuff, and encourage others to refuse all minimum wage and close-to minimum wage jobs. Educate people, let them know they can sell garage sale stuff on Ebay, sell freaking toilet paper door-to-door and make more profit than a minimum wage job!

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264 Comments


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[-] 7 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

If OWS doesn't take jobs some desperate father will in order to pay for his family's meals.

[-] 3 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

Unfortunately true. That's how the company's are getting away with paying people so little, and other types of abuses. Because there's not enough work for those who need it. Why offer someone a living wage when you can find someone desperate enough to take less?

Well, for me, I'd have trouble sleeping at night knowing I was doing that to someone, but we all know a company isn't a person. (No matter what the laws say)

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 10 years ago

what do you make of the tens of millions of working people who aren't making minimum wage or shit money? how did all those people snooker the corporations into paying them more than shit money?

master sneaks? owner's nephews? rank trickery? how do you figure they pulled that off?

[-] 1 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

I have no problem with any of these people. And while I will say that I've met master sneaks from all sides of the roads of life, I've met good people too.

My issue is with company's who rely on these very workers and abuse and exploit them. Not with those between or private business owners (unless either are among the abusers). Sorry, but if you expected me to say they were all sneaks or owner's nephews that got positions through trickery and bribery, you really are quite clueless to why I support this cause.

I myself make higher than minimum wage, though I make a lower wage than some. I've made higher wages than I'm currently making now and have even traded higher wage jobs for lower wages when I've come into a conflict of ethics. I have a firm believe that good business and good ethics are the only way to run a successful business.

[-] 1 points by slizzo (-96) 10 years ago

you avoided my question by dancing around it. I didn't ask if you had a problem with any of them. how do you explain that so many people make more than minimum wage or low wages. look at what I am responding to in the first place.

[-] 1 points by RobinHood2012 (39) 10 years ago

Viva Mexico!!! There will always be a working class and filthy hippies. Years past it was the Irish, Chinese, and Italiens. Next working class will be Middle Easterners and North Koreans. Yummy, $5 Curry and BBQ!!

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Minimum wage will not pay for your family's meals, AND a roof over their heads, that is my point. It does more harm than good.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

So you want a father, or mother to sit on their asses while their children go hungry and their bank takes back control of their house?

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I want the opposite. Really, I have responded to this many times. You can make more money buying and reselling thrift store crap on Ebay than a minimum wage job. Everyone should downsize, have a yard sale, that should get them by for a short while, give them money to put up yard work signs, tutoring signs, housecleaning. Minimum wage takes advantage of the uninformed and inexperience in the ways of the world. You can sell pencils door-to-door and make more money, offer car washing, whatever.

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

You've said that before but I'm not actually sure you can. What kind of job do you hold?

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

We need to help that desperate father realize a minimum wage job will make him more desperate as the economy worsens. You can resell thrift store crap online and make more than minimum wage. People need to know this. Recycle, reuse, resell. We have too much in our houses as it is!

[-] -1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

You can only sell that thrift store crap well if you know how to do it. So you're saying that what I have is too much? My mother is doing just fine as a single mother with two children. I'm not spoiled but I have what I need and then a little more. Which in my opinion is what is required to become more than wolf always sleeping and eating and pooping, barely existing, and humans, who enjoy what they have.

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Having a big yard sale can buy a lot of Americans a little time. We should support garage sales and have our own, not buy new stuff at all!

[-] 0 points by libertarianincle (312) from Cleveland, OH 10 years ago

Your way to solve poverty is a garage sale? I have had 2 huge moving sales, you wanna know what my net from those sales were? $160...thats combined. That wouldn't feed my family of 6 for 2weeks. Garage sale...hilarious.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

It also teaches people not to mindlessly consume. American have WAY too much stuff in their houses. You don't want to sell stuff? Fine, give it to charity.

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

But seriously, I deserve a higher paying job?

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I just answered, not according to TX. I will copy and paste my answer below for clarity. I just posted it 30 seconds ago. "A teenager in Texas can legally be paid BELOW minimum wage, until age 20 in fact. For the first 3 months on a job, you can legally be paid about $3 LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. So those who have summer jobs especially, until age 20, are OUTRIGHT EXPLOITED."

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 10 years ago

Can and are are two different things. Let's see some numbers on how many are actually paid less than minimum wage.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You are right! They CAN pay a slave wage, but often pay nothing! They abuse internships, cities make paid positions volunteer positions, they reclassify jobs as "independent contractors", all to pay less than minimum or nothing at all. They also threaten, "take my free intern job, or you will be legally discriminated against if you have a lapse in employment on future applications".

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 10 years ago

Let's see some facts please. You make a lot of statements but no back up.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

"Many companies use independent contractors to slash payroll taxes and reduce the cost of fringe benefits, but using outside workers can result in other problems. It’s no secret that the IRS often wages battle with businesses over freelancers. And contractors who claim they were really employees in disguise have sued numerous companies.

Latest example: A Texas jury ordered Mary Kay Inc. to pay $11.2 million, including $10 million in punitive damages, in a wrongful termination lawsuit. The case was filed after the cosmetics firm fired Claudine Woolf, one of its sales directors. She was unable to meet an $8,000 monthly quota after she became pregnant and was diagnosed with breast cancer two weeks later. Mary Kay claimed Woolf was an independent contractor, not an employee, and was not legally entitled to sue for wrongful termination."

http://cpa-services.com/special_ind.shtml

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 10 years ago

Why are you changing the subject? Cite me some facts about the people paid less than minimum wage,that's the subject at hand.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

"The Internal Revenue Service and 37 states are cracking down on companies that illegally try to trim payroll costs by changing employees' status to independent contractors, The Associated Press has learned. The practice costs governments billions in lost revenue and can leave workers high and dry when they are hurt at work or are left jobless.

Many who've studied the problem believe it's worsened during the economic downturn — fueling states to be even more aggressive with their recovery efforts.

By designating workers as independent contractors, businesses can save as much as 30% of payroll. They can also avoid unemployment insurance and workers' compensation payments, as well as the employer's share of payroll withholding."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2010-02-11-irs-independent-contractors_N.htm

I will give you other requested examples when I have time. You CAN Google yourself if you want to.

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 10 years ago

You still haven't posted anything about the people making less than minimum wage in Texas. You can't really make a statement like that then dance around answering when asked for facts.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

"Workers who earn tips in the United States include parking attendants, car wash workers, nail salon workers and barbers, baggage porters and bellhops. These workers are entitled under federal law to a minimum wage of only $2.13 per hour. While it was originally set at 60 percent of the minimum wage, the "tipped minimum wage" now equals only 29 percent of the federal minimum wage.

http://excludedworkers.org/tipped-workers

Demographics. No clear statistics exist on the size of the tipped workforce, but 2.9 million restaurant workers alone are in jobs classified as tipped positions.105 Sixty-two percent of these are women, most of them between the ages of 25 and 44.106

Wages and Hours. Tipped workers like waitresses and waiters have triple the poverty rate of the workforce as a whole. A 2010 survey of restaurant workers in San Francisco's Chinatown found that 50 per cent suffered minimum-wage violations and only 5 per cent earned a living wage.107 Among tipped workers, women earn less—an average of $0.40 less per hour than their male counterparts. In restaurants, this difference is $0.70 per hour. According to a 2005 survey, 54 percent worked more than 40 hours per week, and 31 percent more than 50 hours."

http://excludedworkers.org/tipped-workers

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 10 years ago

Good work,thank you.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Ok, now how many employers are sued every year because they don't pay the tips they are supposed to, or force sharing of tips with hourly untipped workers?

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 10 years ago

Tell me

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

(It is actually also Federal law as well as State law.)

"Texas Minimum Wage Exemptions [Top]

In addition to any Texas-specific minimum wage exemptions described above, the Federal Fair Labor Standards act defines special minimum wage rates applicable to certain types of workers.

Texas Under 20 Minimum Wage - $4.25 - Federal law allows any employer in Texas to pay a new employee who is under 20 years of age a training wage of $4.25 per hour for the first 90 days of employment.
Texas Student Minimum Wage - $6.16 - Full-time high school or college students who work part-time may be paid 85% of the Texas minimum wage (as little as $6.16 per hour) for up to 20 hours of work at certain employers.
Texas Tipped Minimum Wage - $2.13 - Employees who earn a certain amount of tips every month may be paid a special cash minimum wage, but must earn at least $7.25 including tips every hour. For more details, read about the Texas tipped wage."

http://www.minimum-wage.org/states.asp?state=Texas

[-] 2 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

So you must accept that some workers WILL be getting welfare, so don't scream "handout" if you think these wages are ok.

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 10 years ago

There you go,that's what I was looking for kind of. Now I wonder how many are actually paid that. (besides the waitresses,this is common practice throughout the country and we still have waitresses)

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

If you are an independent contractor and you work all day and not sell product, you might make zero dollars for the day . Waitresses get about $2 per hour and are expected to get tips.

[-] 0 points by Slammersworld (210) 10 years ago

Have you ever worked a gratuity based job....and FYI it's gratuity....not "TIPS.....TIPS is an acronym for "To Insure Proper Service"...Tips occur before service...You give tips to maitre d', or bouncer, gratuity comes after, waiter, valet, shoe shine, etc......and most who earn them do far better than minimum wage and only have to work a few hours a day to earn the equivalent of a full days pay...it's how intelligent people pay their way through college...

[-] -1 points by Perspective (-243) 10 years ago

Yup and you know the terms when you take the job. No one is getting ripped off.

[-] 0 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

Amazing, I hire quite a bit of casual help and the 8.15/hour minimum wage is never even a factor and never in over 25 years, has anyone working for me been paid that small ($8.15/hr) of an amount. What is a huge factor, is finding people who are truly with a reasonable level of education that have capable hands. I'm even shocked by what today's colleges and trade schools are turning out these days.

You get what you ask for, you are against repealing the 14th and actual immigration reform, wallow in the obvious consequence in your illegal immigrant filled state. I have no sympathy for you on this issue.

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

I know you did but you jumped up to this and said something totally different so I answered.

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

We need more artists in this world too. And mimes. Anything but minimum wage, horrible jobs.

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

So a teenager such as myself deserves more money?

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

A teenager in Texas can legally be paid BELOW minimum wage, until age 20 in fact. For the first 3 months on a job, you can legally be paid about $3 LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. So those who have summer jobs especially, until age 20, are OUTRIGHT EXPLOITED.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

Did you ever work as a teenager? Honestly I have no problem with being paid three dollars an hour to flip burgers. If anything its justified. Also. teachers should be worth a whole lot more than they are.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You don't understand that teenagers are often interns, completely unpaid. Why should adults suffer from depressed wages because companies can exploit cheap teenage labor, and simply hire a revolving door of teenagers? Also, adults work for minimum wage too, just so you know. One in four children are on food stamps. These families are broke. Don't you think it is wrong that people under 20 can be paid LESS THAN minimum wage in TX, as I outlined?

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Well, because of the economy, more and more of them pay rent to their parents. Why should we have age discrimination when it comes to jobs and rent? This is what the 1% wants, as it hurts the 99% but favors themselves.

[-] 0 points by simplesimon (121) 10 years ago

20 year olds don't leave home for a lot more reasons than the economy, and it's been going on loooong time.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

Well we are all people aren't we?

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Ok, but you cannot pay rent and eat on that. It is not ok to make workers either starve or be homeless. That is not society. You would have to get food stamps and housing assistance, maximizing profits of course for the corporations at the expense of the country.

[-] 2 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

Lincoln (The Man Who Sold the World) in fact enslaved all, and not just citizens of the United States. Actual slavery was a better deal than most all that has followed the 1871 Bankruptcy and the reorganizing of it in 1933.

At least de facto owners of slaves had a vested interest and incentive to keep their property healthy and safe.

[-] -3 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

We get it, you hate black people.

So it looks like I have to edit this comment. My comment was in relation to his numerous racist posts. Just scroll down, unless he deleted them. Here is an example:

[-] FrogWithWings -1 points 6 hours ago

Vote Obama, he's a mime too! You need a real man to show you how the front and back 40 should be plowed. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink

[-] 1 points by Slammersworld (210) 10 years ago

I'm sorry, are you saying slavery was about black people? tell me then why black freemen would also be slave owners and Confederate Army Volunteers? And, how about the child, inmate, and indentured servant slaves of other races that existed in early america? Also, how about the fact that 10% of the black populations at the turn of the 1700/1800's were free men and women?

do you know ANYTHING?

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

My comment was in relation to his numerous racist posts. Just scroll down, unless he deleted them. Here's one:

[-] FrogWithWings -1 points 6 hours ago

Vote Obama, he's a mime too! You need a real man to show you how the front and back 40 should be plowed. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

You, are quite stupid and completely uneducated. Good luck feeding yourself, children and paying your rent, miming and finger painting.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

What's the most environmentally friendly packaging? A mime in a box!

[-] -1 points by Perspective (-243) 10 years ago

Also the most useless.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

And about as useful as your finger paintings that nobody will buy and you'd rather keep before taking care of your own. I'd be surprised if you could actually read a tape measure to make a box.

[-] 0 points by simplesimon (121) 10 years ago

The indentured servants from the Old World were lily white. 7 years it took 'em. Part of history you know....black freemen were offered the same deal.

[-] -1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

So by not working at all, the point is? More sucking the teat of the government at the expense of the taxpayers?
Right back to the " gimme gimme gimme" mentality .

[-] 2 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Just wow. You don't want people to have a living wage, so when they get assistance you call it a "gimme" problem? Minimum wage is not a living wage, got it?

[-] 1 points by Slammersworld (210) 10 years ago

You don't "GET" a living wage...you EARN the right to one based on your skills, experience, work ethic, and..unfortunately for you...your attitude

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

No where did I say I don't want folks to have a living wage. And as for getting " assistance", unfortunately far too many take that assistance as the only means to thier income. Many do nothing to suppliment that assistance, many sit around and just collect. Thus the " gimme" mentality. We all know exactly what I am talking about. And minimum wage is what it is, usually for unskilled work. Frankly I don't know anyone who has a minimum wage job. Teens included. Even the retail jobs local to me are paying 10 bucks an hour and more. I hire 2 teens every summer and they are paid 10 - 12 bucks an hour for part time work. But they don't need to support themselves. So what is your answer? Just don't work? And yes I say Wow to that thinking.

[-] 1 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

In order to get that assistance you have to be actively looking for a job. Sure, some get around it by applying for jobs and not actually trying hard to actually get a job, but my personal experience has been that such cases are far more the minority than they're made out to be.

Actually, I've worked in more than one city in more than one state and I've known a lot of people who worked for minimum wage. I've worked for it myself - and been an outside contractor as well. Actually, my outside contract work was better paying than minimum wage, but just because I lucked out doesn't mean that all outside contractors are paid well.

I've known people who have attempted to live on a part-time job at barely above a minimum wage because they couldn't find full time work. I've worked at companies who have told workers that if they try to specify what days/hours they can work (in order to get a second job, and even in order to care for their children) that they'll cut their hours. And I've worked alongside teenagers whose wages went to food and bill for their family.

My answer? Company's need to pay workers a living wage according to the area in which they open shop. If they chose to open shop in an area with more expensive cost of living, that was their choice. They shouldn't be allowed to exploit workers for a larger profit margin.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

When you hire those teens, do them a favor and give them set sechedules so they can also have a class schedule or second job to supplement your part time job, most likely with no benefits.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

You really don't get the work force do you? Teens are covered by their parents policies, and adults still living at home up until the age of 29. I pay very well for teenage help in the summer. It s called " pocket cash" . They arent paying rent or buying food. Oh and they are learning a skill.

[-] 2 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

Not if their parents don't have policies for themselves. Families are living together because affording housing is too expensive on their own, and I've known teenagers who helped pay rent and buy food. Depends on who you work with.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

Yes it does, it also depends on what part of the country we each live in. I happen to be in NYC, a bit too much of the spoiled kids mentality, but the kids who work for me in the summer are learning responsibility as well as a skill if they choose to go down this road. We can all pick apart each others words, but when it comes down to it, we all have more in common than not.

[-] 1 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

Can't reply to your reply. Guess there's a limit. I've worked alongside spoiled kids, and responsible kids I've worked alongside adults who give their all, and ones that try not to work at all. I've walked out on jobs because I found their practices unethical. I was nearly fired from a job for speaking out against a manager who was abusing his position. I understand that the workforce is varied, I've had many long years in it. And in the end, you're right that we all have more in common than not.

But I feel like I've watched things grow steadily worse instead of better. When I first started working, it was easy to get a company to work around the schedule you needed to have two jobs. Now I've been present in the room to hear a boss tell another that an employee got a second job and wants to limit their schedule, and the boss tell them to cut their hours to minimum since they were no longer the employee's "priority".

It used to be that if you made yourself valuable as an employee, you were given raises to reward your efforts. If you were part time, you would be offered a full time position if you proved you were an asset. Now I see people working for a company for several years without even getting a dollar more than they did at the start, and working part time for several years because the company limits their number of full time workers.

Policies like this hurt those with the drive to "do better" because they can't work multiple jobs, or rely on the company to reward their efforts. Once, I started work with someone who was a hard worker I respected a lot. A year later their opinion was literally not to bother giving their all, because the company wasn't rewarding for it. It only took a year to make their attitude change that much - truly sad!

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Ok, we just took 100 steps back. Not all kids come from intact homes, not every parent has a "policy" where their kids can be covered til age 29. Many teens do not live at home, and have families of their own to support. These "teen jobs" depress wages for other workers, lessen the prospect of adults getting hired. Careful you are not discriminating against age in your hiring practices.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

My error on the age.. it is age 26 where adult kids can remain on the parents policies. It's a fed law, has nothing to do with what kind of health insurance you carry. As for teens with families? Thats an entirely different problem .

[-] 0 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

The kids I hire are usually the children of a crew member or a client. These are the kids looking for some pocket cash during the summer, they arent supporting families.

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

There are reasons why, even on the FAFSA form for college assistance, the student can choose not to go by parents' income. I know a lot of kids from wealthy families, their parents never gave them a dime for anything, one didn't own socks, I swear.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

What does this have to do with my original post?

[-] -1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

Why exactly do you think for so long that those low paying jobs were the realm of teenagers seeking a little extra money over they summer? Now we have people with degrees working at McDonalds.

[-] 1 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

Oh, geez. Why do people keep repeating that myth? I'm going to start slamming my head against the nearest wall.

3/4 of the low-wage work force is adults.

Many of these low-wage jobs: Janitorial, Retail, Factories - were around before high school was so common. True, child labor did account for part of these jobs since there was no child labor laws then. I don't know about you, but I don't want to revisit that time period in history myself. The fact remains, though, when child labor laws went into effect, and especially when K-12 became mandatory - these jobs became the realm of adults.

Neither stores, factories/packaging plants, or janitorial work are open only when schools are not in session. The companies would never be able to keep up with demand if they were. That means that these jobs require an adult work force. So why do people want to keep refusing them the right to a living wage?

[-] 1 points by Slammersworld (210) 10 years ago

there is no "Right" to any wage...if your skills are low, and you can't get more than minimum wage, then you need to adjust your lifestyle, and become more valuable to the marketplace.....work is not a right, it's a trade....

People who have no more skills than are compensated by minimum wage, who begin families are irresponsible and stupid.....and should be ashamed of their foolishness, not demand that others subsidize it...

[-] 1 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

I'm really, really going to slam my head against the nearest wall soon. This is the same topic I keep trying to get through to people on. No wonder companies are getting away with this crap.

Okay, how about this - if you could only ever buy anything after 5 pm, before 10 pm, and on weekends, would that be acceptable? If the stores were constantly out of food to sell you, would that be acceptable? If no store in your area ever had enough clothing in your size, would that be acceptable? If the stores you shopped in, and the buildings to your work place were never cleaned, or were cleaned sporadically, would that be acceptable?

All these things are directly related to low-wage jobs. In other words, these jobs provide to you what you need on a daily basis. Low-skill or not, these jobs provide for the essential needs of every single one of us. Things we take for granted - clothes, food, sanitation. So why are we as a society saying that the people who provide this for us are some sort of subclass who don't deserve to have housing and food?

Because by saying living wage isn't a "right" and that their skills aren't "valuable enough" to be given it, that is what we as a society are saying.

[-] 1 points by Slammersworld (210) 10 years ago

they don't merit "living wage" perhaps they could combine several and create one that does..but you lazy drones would never work that hard...

[-] 1 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

Thank-you for trolling.

[-] 1 points by bill1102inf2 (357) 10 years ago

Right and instead of paying the REALLY valuable employees better, society currently pays the LEAST valuable people the most $$. Bankers and other parasites of the economy.

[-] 1 points by Slammersworld (210) 10 years ago

Really? the least? those who organize the financing for new enterprises, and expansion of existing enterprises...the ones that provide the arean of exchange for our compensation and convenience of electronic debits to make purchases with that compensation...they loan us money to purchase real estate that we could not purchase with cash.....they are just parasites and unneeded...huh?

[-] -1 points by simplesimon (121) 10 years ago

There are a lot of mimes right here...their mouths move and absolutely nothing coherent comes out.

[-] -1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

Vote Obama, he's a mime too! You need a real man to show you how the front and back 40 should be plowed.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You are more than just a troll. You help covert the GOP to OWS by showing representative examples of what Republicans really stand for.

[-] -1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

Oh yes, unlike you, I have certain purpose and affect specific changes. I make my own way through this world and never whimper or moan no matter how hard things may become.

I'd bet I'm a much better artist than you too. My works are actually hanging in the homes and offices of people who laid down real money to own them.

Flaming liberal inept.

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

This world is not all about YOU.

[-] 0 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

My world is far removed from being concerned with useless people unwilling to make any attempts to fend for themselves. Any woman that is like how you describe yourself, is merely a creator of screw trophies of which you're completely dependent on big government to raise for you and a bit too confident it always will.

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 10 years ago

As will the millions of illegals in our country.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

Which raises another point. The idea on immigrants. Any ideas?

[-] 1 points by ropeknot (359) 10 years ago

Illegal immigrants is what you're referring to , I hope .

They are not the problem , the problem is that they come from places where they are used to living at a lower wage than the common U.S. citizen even if they have to live in a place with more than one two or three incomes per household .

We have built a country that is used to one or two incomes per household .

Businesses and corporations love not having to pay the cost of living to one person per household , and this is where the problem is .

If we can fix that , illegal immigrants are no longer the problem .

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 10 years ago

I'm up in the air on that one. I in no way agree with amnisty, but also believe that those who have been in the country for 20-30 years and have not been criminals should be given some sort of a time period permit to stay and apply for citizenship. Having said that, I don't believe they should be given any special consideration and should be put in the long line of applicants for citizenship.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

I actually agree with you on that

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 10 years ago

Unfortunatly, that discussion can not even be had until they address the real issue of securing the boarder. With out doing that first, every other conversation about the topic is pointless.

[-] 2 points by KillerInstinctGold (43) 10 years ago

Yea then they would ship a bunch of migrant workers in to do them for us.

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

If the country is going to "allow" that, we better make sure those workers are not taken advantage of either, it only hurts us when they are exploited. Business will lie, say they need to pay their workers pittance, it is just not true.

[-] 3 points by KillerInstinctGold (43) 10 years ago

They already are dong that actually the farm industry is notorious for this. We had a construction company down hear in Florida that brought in a bunch of workers from Mexico to do the job, because they were willing to do it for 8 dollars an hour.

[-] 2 points by Lironah (4) 10 years ago

I have worked for pittance jobs, $3 an hour, $1 an hour for freelance writing and web research.

I've had employers want me to finish a project that was more work than they expected, without paying me any more to do it.

I've done work that was ultimately rejected in favor of someone else's work, and been paid nothing for my time.

I've been told by debt collectors to apply at jobs like Crossmark, which are always hiring, but where every new hire means that one of their current contract employees gets fewer hours.

That is the kind of work people do now just to feed their children. It's not right, and it has to stop.

[-] 2 points by genanmer (822) 10 years ago

Occupy and support not-for-profit organizations

[-] 2 points by necropaulis (491) 10 years ago

Selling stuff costs money. Do you want $20/hr for scrubbing toilets?? You refuse work. I'll take it.

[-] -1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I have no problem with that wage for scrubbing toilets as long as there are benefits and proper health precautions in place, with a raise to about $22 in 6 months.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

So you wouldn't take a job cleaning houses if it doesnt provide benefits and health insurance and an automatic raise in 6 months? I don't know where you live, but in NYC the housekeepers average about 20+ bucks an hour and there are no benefits involved. Of course it is a cash transaction. They can then decide if they want to buy into a health ins plan on thier own. or not. As for me , I run a small construction co. My staff is paid according to skill level and they all do quite well. They work hard, and not once in the 12 yrs that Ive been running this biz has anyone ever been laid off, except for one guy who was caught stealing from a client. And I have had little to no turnover in staff in all these years. Health insurance is offered to all, at a cost. It is near impossible for a small business such as mine , to cover the staff . Some opt in, some don't. When the business makes money, everyone benefits. But it takes hard work to keep things afloat. Hard work from the entire staff. I am fortunate to have such a great crew working for me.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Another problem is, many people feel very uncomfortable hiring cleaning persons who are not foreigners. People like to feel superior to their hired help, so they hire minorities, they do not want to face true equality and opportunity issues amongst their own fellow citizens.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

My experiences with that are many in the field of " domestic " work are indeed foreigners, mostly from the Latin american countries. But , I also know many many companies started by average women of legal status. They don't feel inferior to thier employers and frankly the employers like having an english speaking housekeeper.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

That is the exception to what I have noticed. Much in the same way whites uded to have blacks as servants, whites like to have Mexicans as servants now. White help may not as easily put up with abuse, and the hirers DO feel quite uncomfortable in great number with white domestic help. This is a device of the 1%, it helps depress wages.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

I still don't see that, not saying its not happening. But the 1% are not the only ones who have housekeepers or domestic help. Plenty of average working folkshere have housekeepers, myself included. I have 2 sisters who come into my home every other week. I pay them well, they clean well. I leave for work when they come so no one is breathing down anyone's neck and its a win win for us both. Just a small luxury I afford myself to have someone do the heavy housework. They also work for me when I cater dinners as servers and cleanup. I trust them in my home as well as the homes I cater in.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I think it is why you hire teenagers over adults.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

Well I see we are going no where in this thread. I have skilled adults as full time crew in my construction business. I hire 2 teens each summer as interns to do things such as filing in the office or helping unload a pickup truck of supplies on a job site. They work part time hours in the summer. It teaches them responsibility such as getting to work on time and being accountable, as well as putting spending money in thier pockets.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

"...Federal Fair Labor Standards act defines special minimum wage rates applicable to certain types of workers.

Texas Under 20 Minimum Wage - $4.25 - Federal law allows any employer in Texas to pay a new employee who is under 20 years of age a training wage of $4.25 per hour for the first 90 days of employment. Texas Student Minimum Wage - $6.16 - Full-time high school or college students who work part-time may be paid 85% of the Texas minimum wage (as little as $6.16 per hour) for up to 20 hours of work at certain employers. Texas Tipped Minimum Wage - $2.13 - Employees who earn a certain amount of tips every month may be paid a special cash minimum wage, but must earn at least $7.25 including tips every hour. For more details, read about the Texas tipped wage."

http://www.minimum-wage.org/states.asp?state=Texas

Exploiting teenagers is not ok.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

So you pay them the student intern wage, not minimum wage? This hurts all Americans.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

I guess you did not read my post on what I do pay them. I have no idea what a student intern wage is. I pay them 10 - 12 bucks an hour.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Fantastic. I hope your crew is diverse, without regard to race, age, gender, color, religious preference, or sexual orientation.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

They are diverse. I hire according to skill. I could care less who they worship or sleep with. I have also had the same core crew members going on 12 yrs. That says alot about me as an employer and my company.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Very good.

[-] 1 points by necropaulis (491) 10 years ago

I'm sure you wouldn't. The thing is, it's not worth that much. same as flipping burgers. Anyone with a hand and some semblance of a brain could do it. It's an easily replaced job. That's why the pay is low. You don't have to accept low paying jobs. I've refused good, less paying jobs to keep my crappy higher paid job.

[-] 2 points by Coriolanus (272) 10 years ago

A relative of mine is in the hotel business. Finding people who can actually clean toilets isn't as easy as it seems (he sometimes has to go find them hiding in the basement).

[-] 1 points by necropaulis (491) 10 years ago

Not arguing those that all who do it are "the best of the best". This is also one of the reasons why central and south Americans are called in to do it. They don't care, it's more than they were making down there. I was a janitor. I lasted about a month and a half. I was trained by a guy who was there for 15 years, doing the same thing. He earned 19.50/hr +full benefits. by the time he retired.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 10 years ago

It's funny how it isn't worth that much until no one will do it, suddenly it becomes worth a whole lot more.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Manual labor is worth A LOT, just not recognized in this society currently, don't get it twisted.

[-] 0 points by necropaulis (491) 10 years ago

I do manual labor. It is worth a lot. You just have to be skilled to get into a good paying position. You going to make more running a welding rig than the guy swinging a hammer. It takes more skill, therefore demands more money. It's recognized, it's just people are getting more and more self-centered and don't want to acknowledge such things.

[-] 2 points by XylitolEater (19) 10 years ago

The people are educated for their most impressionable first twenty years to spend on frivolous stuff - this will require quite an education to undo. It requires a lengthy learning process, requiring the whole culture out there to transform, beginning with such simple things as to what to do to enjoy that few free hours you are afforded, instead of playing with your "frivoulous stuff" and going to the supermarket.

And for such a boycott, people will need supplies. Non-perishable foods, medicines, things like this. Few have the determination and conviction in principle to go hungry for months, together with their families, to starve off their oppressors. It is actually quite a good idea, and could very well be the second phase of the Occupy movement - but this will be a lengthy stuff, you need a long preparation phase in an organized manner during which there would be no real reward.

[-] 1 points by NewEnglandPatriot (916) from Dartmouth, MA 10 years ago

Organic food is another example it costs more but tastes better and the other crap they have is slowly taking up less space on the shelves. The real stuff tastes better, you feel better and the prices come down a little, the cheap goes up a little cause they sell less. Sure there are those that don't convert, I try to vote with the wallet. Less fuel surcharges as local means local. There are not many farms and dairies left around here but enough to keep the small grocers competitive, when in season for produce.

[-] 1 points by squarerootofzero (81) 10 years ago

The danger is that while the cost of living increases the wages stay flat. Also, the government (or the FED, there is a difference discussed ad nasuem in other places) taxes everyone by printing money. The value of the dollar becomes less and less. The rich are supposed to be better hedged against up and downs. If people don't put up a fight now then it will get much, much worse in the future. These changes must come from the grass roots style/bottom up because top-down/governmental changes are slanted to certain individuals. This is just the beginning of a Long Emergency.

[-] 0 points by NewEnglandPatriot (916) from Dartmouth, MA 10 years ago

It is already happening. 3 months ago the same bag of cat food costed $8.99, now costs $15.99. Some products have doubled, some 25%-30% increase. They transfer the increases to lesser necessities and keep milk bread and some meats essentials the same. Processed food, junk food , soda is always cheap I'd rather starve. Inflation is creeping its way in it is a matter of time before the increases hit all products. I have seen it before, but never this severe. Some day loaf of bread $5.99, gal of milk$7.99 , 12 oz coffee $10.99, pet food $20.00 its coming folks

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

See my post at http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=734 to understand that we the consumers of America need to help the unemployed. If if we all followed the Occupy consumer guidelines referenced in my post, it will still be a long time until we can start working the social issues.

At present, there is too much available labor in the unskilled job market. We need to first get those people back to work so there is some upward pressure on labor rates. Once we get folks back to work, we can also start putting pressure on American companies to pay a fair wage, provide benefits, etc.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I see work that needs to be done right now. About 20 stray dogs the city does nothing about. There is TONS of work to do, but it is not slaving away for some 1%er.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

You apparently didn't read my posts, and that indicates to me that you are more interested in stating your opinion than engaging in reasoned and respectful dialog. If you had read my post or the guidelines at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit, you'd know that I am advocating We the Consumers, the 99%, need to do more business with our local mom-and-pop business, and they are not owned or operated by the 1%

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 10 years ago

About the "mom and pop" stores. I see this as a bit of a catch 22. In some areas WalMart and Club stores practically have a monopoly. The smaller stores have already been driven out of business.

I see more small specialty owner operated and indepedent markets and stores in more affluent areas. With much higher prices of course. Even the inner city, which used to have the neighborhood independents still, are now being overrun with big chain stores. One set of stores for the best, another set of stores for the rest. I don't see alot of in between.

Break up the big chain stores?? Perhaps when there is a recovery, some "mom and pops" will come back when consumers have more money in their pockets.

I think the problem is the monopoly hold these chains already have. They've all but wiped out the competition. Enriching themselves using cheap labor from overseas, creating the loss of manufacturing jobs here. Which means that those very people that have lost their manufacturing jobs, now must shop at WalMart out of necessity because of the lower prices and lack of competition. Sounds like plot! haha. Which I guess brings us to trade policy!

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

I never said it will be easy, and there are different levels of evel we need to addressin stages.

The greatest evil in my opinion are the large on-line shops like Amazon.com. These big shops are decimating local employment just so we can buy crap we don't need for a few bucks less.

The next step down in evil are the big national retailers like Wall-Mart who sell nothing but foreign goods and do not treat their workers well.

The next step down in evil are the regional outlets such as California's "In-and-Out" or Texas's "Sonic" burger joints. These places at least produce and employ regionally and typically get their produce locally.

The next step down are the franchise establishments which, though they operate under a corporate umbrella, are actually locally owned and operated.

The absolute best are the local mom-and-pops, and there are a lot mre of them then people think. Even in my little town, we have community banks, a farmer's market, local burger joints, local restaurants, and [gasp] locally operated coffee shops. These shops need to be nurtured like fragile but beautiful flowers while we work on the others. In my opinion, any "OWS supporter" walking aaround with a Starbucks cup should be immediately voted off the island !

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 10 years ago

I see what you mean. Especially about Amazon. My local Borders Bookstore just closed recently. I really liked that place. Even though it was a chain. It had a nice cafe, and WiFi and books of course. Heaven. I have to find a new hangout now. And I'll stop at Gilly's Java Hut for coffee rather than Starbucks! Don't vote me off the island. : )

I've always liked and shopped the farmers markets. It's alot healthier, doesn't require shipping long distances so it helps to save the environment from carbon emissions.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

Yep, it's going to take a thousand little baby-steps such as those you've taken, and it will require a prolonged effort to recover what we have willingly given up by our own choices. However... If not us who ? and if not now, when ?

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 10 years ago

How do you feel about Kindle like devices, and electronic news media v print media?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

Regarding Kindle, I'm torn. From my own personal experience, I see the younger members of my family reading more now that they have Kindles. Better yet, the old classics are free, and they're poor, so some of the truly great literature is being rediscovered. On the other hand, I miss being able to browse someone's books (and CDs/Albums) to get to know them when I first enter their home, and I miss the intellectual discussions I often had with other book-lovers at Borders. I also lament the loss of the brick-and-mortar jobs, of course. As I said, I'm torn. If I stand back and consider the import of educated citizens in a Democracy, I suppose more people reading has to trump my other concerns, but I still think we'd be better off with books if we could just get more people to read them !

I see nothing but negatives in our loss of print journalism, even though I have to admit I get all my news on-line and from PBS (News Hour, Business Report, and documentaries). Every morning, I sit and read every news entry at http://news.yahoo.com/ (including the various world pages and business) as well as www.physorg.com. Again, I'm torn. The depth of reporting at Yahoo news and on-line sites in general is not as it once was in the printed papers. While I personally make up for that by exploiting PBS, I know many don't, so I think we have a lost a little there. On the other hand, there has never been a print equivalent for physorg.com, so I'm a bit ahead on that front (as is anyone who has a similar deep interest and has found a forum dedicated to them). I also, of course lament the loss of the paperboy jobs of my youth that I recall with great nostalgia.

Bottom line... I'm for people reading more, and if it takes Kindle to do that, I suppose it's worth the cost; we simply must have more literate and educated citizens. As for print journalism, I think we as a Nation are not consuming enough quality news, and that be the result of having so many outlets offering news in sound-bites. I'm not sure, however, that most people weren't just skimming headlines then jumping to the comics and sports anyway (personally, I am in favor of a poll-test about some very basic topics in civics, by the way, but that will never happen ;o)

In both cases, I lament the loss of jobs and social interaction resulting from our new electronic society.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 10 years ago

You're a little old fashioned. Or should I say - traditionalist. : )

The way I like to look at it, e-media saves trees!

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

What gave me away ? Was it when I mentioned "albums" ? ;o)

I still have a stack of vinyl albums including the first releases by Chicago, Yes, ELP, Mahavishnu Orchestra, etc !

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You advocate getting people back to work at stupid jobs with slave wages. People need more freedom to choose what kind of job they want to do , how it will benefit society. Some people will choose to be mimes, and I'm cool with that. Others will want to cure cancer.

If the job is really lame, like digging ditches, I think everyone should rotate. Even the politicians should do a day of digging, so they understand!

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

I see now way to make your scheme work, so I guess we''ll just have to respectfully agree to disagree !

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Another New Deal, de-emphasize consumerism to dry up those jobs, more support of small-time artists and entertainers, move cultural hot spots to public parks, out of bars and restaurants. Cook from home. Connect with people, not money. Raise taxes on rich big time. let govt provide jobs, let people choose work. If some want to be mimes, fine with me!

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

Maybe we agree on more than I thought. How would the artists, entertainers, and mimes acquire the necessities of life such as food and shelter ?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Heck no, we don't need those stupid jobs. I hope they disappear entirely.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

Right, so the current trend towards a shortage of engineers like myself and an excess of folks who can't be engineers will continue. Do you think everyone can be an engineer ? What jobs will the folks with only a high school degree have ?

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

We need more jobs that serve the country, not the 1%. High school people are not that much dumber than engineers, ok? We have roads to fix, elderly to care for, we need to support artists, NOT reward MINIMUM WAGE industries. I personally BOYCOTT companies that don't pay their workers a living wage.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

Good. So even though you clearly didn't read my post, you are exercising your consumer power in a socially responsible fashion.

I never said the average person is dumber than an engineer. Being an engineer, however, requires a lot of formal education that it currently inaccessible to many. Furthermore, the simple fact of the matter is that we, the US, are not graduating sufficient people in the Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math (STEM) fields. I explored why this is the case in my post at http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-do-students-choose-poor-majors/ where I was trying to understand why more students aren't majoring in the fields that pay very good wages and have very low unemployment. I am an engineer, and a senior staff level one who hires at that. Best I can tell, most Americans have an aversion to advanced mathematics, and that's why we have a shortage of STEM graduates.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

The wealthy, the ones who can afford to go to college, just want a business degree, not math.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I have gotten STEM scholarships myself and I still cannot afford to graduate, ok? It is NOT an "aversion to advanced math".

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

Why then is there such a shortage of STEM majors ?

My son graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree back in 2006 and had no problem pulling in a $60,000 per year job. Better yet, he decided to change jobs about 3 months ago, got a multitude of offers, and selected one that provided relocation expenses and another 15% in pay to boot.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

The homes are fractured. If you have a good high school experience with sports, you get scholarships. If you have chaos as a child, you don't get scholarships as easily. The wealthy want business degrees, not math degrees. Some poor are victims of media, wanting to be rappers and such. Too much emphasis on material, not enough on public good. My opinion.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 10 years ago

and a pretty sound one at that !

[-] 1 points by sato (148) 10 years ago

What if EVERYWHERE in the world, the minimum wage was raised to the standards of living conditions? If American corporations had to pay Chinese a minimum wage equivalent to USA. The jobs would be shipped back to America? Made in USA would spread once more? I'd like to think that would be positive.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I do not want many those jobs back! Stupid jobs should not exist! We need more jobs that are scientific and philanthropic in nature, less greed. We have too much stuff If you are a worker, feeling drained at the end of the day and like you made no difference in the world, the job should probably be automated or ended. This country already has tons of work to do. The environment is a mess, there are stray animals everywhere, the roads are falling apart. Also, why doesn't the govt help more people become dentists? I mean, people are dying from cavities because they can't afford care, that is ridiculous. Some states won't fix a tooth, only pull in a life-threatening emergency. Why does it need to get life-threatening, why disfigure by pulling? This country is messed up.

[-] 1 points by TheMaster (63) 10 years ago

OWSers have refused to take on minimum wage jobs for years. Our neighbors to the south filled the void. While OWSers were playing video games in mommy and daddy's house, Pedro was mowing the lawn and trimming the hedges.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Our neighbors to the south either get farm wages which is below minimum, or at least $10-15 an hour, it seems.

[-] 1 points by fjolsvit (957) from Washington, DC 10 years ago

Imported cheap labor: The way it was explained to me is that there were four men on the Mexican border ready to take my job if I didn't like the conditions.

[-] 1 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 10 years ago

What if people stoped eating. You work these jobs if you are an adult so you can fill your tummy.Kids work them for spending money. School money etc.People will take low pay over no pay.Put pressure on the corporations,not workers.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Nonono. You can sell your old junk door-to-door and most likely make more than minimum, anything but work minimum will give you more income.

[-] 2 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 10 years ago

You have me convinced,now convince them.

[-] 1 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

Asking them to give up their low-wage jobs isn't the answer with nothing to give in return. And I've had friends who have tried to sell on E-bay and not had any success.

Instead, what about working on setting up cooperatives? The people with low-wage jobs could get together with those unable to find work, and use their money to rent a building for both living space and work space. The people with the low-wage jobs can continue to work until the business is off the ground. Though wiki's not the best source, you can read up on them here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative

Get the OWS supporters in the area to shop the cooperatives instead of the big businesses. It'll take time, but I think the plan has potential.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

This is another option. Many people need to get roommates. The problem is, so many people come from fractured homes, and are quite alone themselves, they don't know who to live with.

[-] 2 points by WorkerAntLyn (254) 10 years ago

Very true. Once you could count on family for support, but so many now cannot. Even those with roommates can have problems in some areas. (HUD said that to have a 1 bedroom apartment the needed national average for income was $14 an hour. That means that three people would be required to cover all bills and expenses for a 1 bedroom apartment! Ridiculous!)

For those without family support, they could connect with others through OWS. Living alone is more expensive than living in a group, because you share food, bills, those with vehicles could carpool with those who don't, etc.

If we can set up cooperatives where the people can live and work together, we'd be providing work and housing. It also would enable a more effective boycott on these businesses by providing alternative places to shop.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 10 years ago

You are right Bluerose. This is what the American People really need to do. This is also why the 1% likes the high unemployment rate. It gives people few options for survival.

A new huge supermarket opened near my mother. It has only 15 full time workers with benefits! The rest of the hires are part-time. The town is up in arms but what they really need to do is boycott those jobs and shopping in that store.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Thanks. Reduce, reuse, recycle, resell! OWS please, don't buy new stuff, buy used from someone who needs income, and look in your life to save money yourself! Get a roommate, don't spend on Walmart junk, don't take a minimum wage!

[-] 1 points by tundraleigh (3) from Chelsea, VT 10 years ago

I find this suggestion naive. I applaud you for trying to problem solve, however this comment oozes of privilege. As a mother I can tell you that a parent will do anything, and I mean ANYTHING, to put food on their child's plate or to protect them from harm. And yes, I get that in the long run it could improve the lives of the parents and children but when someone is truly struggling, they do not have the luxury of principles or of planning for tomorrow. A person who is struggling to provide food and shelter can only focus on right now. The poorest of the poor do not have the luxury of principles, they are focused on survival.

I have been watching the OWS movement and am generally a supporter, however I worry that it is a bit of an elitist movement. I don't see a lot of discussion about how we can boost up the truly poorest of the poor - those that are living on less than $2 a day. In order to have a yard sale you must have a home and live in a place where those around you have enough disposable income to buy your stuff. In order to sell something on Ebay you have to have access to a computer, and enough education to know how to use it, not to mention to know how to read and write. Even in our country not everyone has access to these things, and if we are talking about ALL of us, these suggestions fall woefully short.

People need jobs to survive, so asking them to turn their backs on what little they can scrape together doesn't seem fair. I would very much like to see more discussion on consumption, on sourcing products from companies who practice social responsibility, on not using what we don't need and on general resource conservation. Or how about building models for barter economies where people trade products and services for products and services directly? There are seven billion people on this earth, and these are only a small fraction of the life forms we share this planet with, all of whom need access to resources in order to survive. Any truly successful solutions are going to have to take into account everyone's needs and everyone's challenges. Otherwise we just trade one type of exploitation for another.

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Why do you think these people are struggling in the first place? I am saying do all you CAN to resist, and help others who would have a hard time turning down a low-paying job, and show them possible ways to generate income other than a slave wage.

If someone does not have Ebay, then perhaps they could do yardwork They would certainly get paid more than minimum, at least $10 an hour, if they could find yardwork in their neighborhood. I don't have the answer to everyone's particular issue. But I know in order to prevent suffering in the future, people need to know that minimum wage really causes more problems than it is worth. I see kids making cards and selling them on Ebay, I have bought some myself. People sell ethically collected feathers for crafts. I say support these kind of people, not big business.

I want OWS to make real change, which requires REACHING and FINDING people who could use just the tiniest help. Heck, I am jobless myself, but if I knew of someone who needed an Ebay lesson and advice on how to get free internet from the library, I would tell them. That is what I am trying to do here. Would love to FIND the people I am ABLE to help in my modest way.

[-] 1 points by far2wrld (53) 10 years ago

I totally agree, more than half of the job ads where i live dont mention what the pay rate is, they also have the habit of asking for a rediculous amounts of experience , for a job even a monkey can do , perfect credit,perfect work history , an amount of schooling equal to college etc. They dont mention the pay rate because they know they wont get any response to the ads. Yes it is an exploitaion of the common worker ,their using the exsisting economic conditons for personnel gains. True selling stuff on Ebay , Craigslist and localy in your city does generate more income than working a job for minimum wage with no benefits and no job security. True those jobs are not worth working for. Especialy temporary job agencies their the worst!

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

TRUE STORY:

I applied for a position online yesterday. I have a degree and 20 years work experience. I got this in my inbox today: (edited for privacy)

Dear x

Thank you for your interest in x position at x

After careful consideration, the decision has been made to pursue candidates whose qualifications more closely meet our needs.

Thank you, X

I was never called, they just determined I was not qualified by my online application.

Here's the kicker: I reapplied at a different location online with different buzzwords in my resume. They offered me an interview today. I asked about the pay, they said MINIMUM, with no flexibility for experience. I said you have wasted both our time by not posting your wage.

ALSO, by personal examples I must conclude that these "NOW HIRING" signs and ads are FAKE, designed to present a falsely healthy image of the company. I went to apply online for a job advertized in a window, as the manager told me to do. There was no such position online. The woman, who said she did the hiring and was the manager, insisted there was, I was not applying correctly. I asked her to verify herself. She then had to admit, there was no job, the "home office" must have determined it not needed. How much you want to bet when I drive past today that sign will still be up?

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

With 20 years work experience, might I suggest starting your own business. Perhaps consulting, offering your services for a set fee. Loads of folks are doing this now and making a very decent living. Housekeeping, babysitting, elder care, catering, website design, all sorts of stuff out there where people are making thier own money. Then you can set your own price structure , and have your independance.

[-] 2 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Would love to, but I am female, I made 30% less than my male counterparts. I did not have health insurance, so I have bad credit trying to pay medical bills. I cannot get a loan to start a proper business. Yes, I do those jobs you suggested already. Thanks. There is nearly always a way to legally work for more than minimum wage, but too many people are taken advantage of in this country.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

I don't buy the" I am a female" BS. I am widowed 21 yrs. My husband who was the primary breadwinner dropped dead at 38 yrs old. I had no choice but to break my ass to provide for my son, and I did. I never once whined or complained. I let no one get in my way when it came to building up my life and my resources. To suppliment my income working for a state agency back then, I catered. I also took a 2nd job at night, and yeah it sucked but thats life. 12 yrs ago I partnered with someome and started a construction co. And I still cater private dinner parties, which btw I love. As a woman, I get the respect I earned from my staff and my clients, as well as all my sub contractors and vendors.

I have a friend who was laid off last year, she had difficulty finding work, so I said " start your own biz" . I saw her this past weekend. She gave me a huge hug and thanked me for supporting her ideas. She now has 9 clients and is back on her feet.

As women, sure we have to work harder to prove we can do it, but who else works like we do? Who else can multi task and hold down the fort like women can?

Sure there is plenty wrong in this country and gov't, but that doesnt mean we should all just shrivel up and not try to help ourselves to rise above it, while fighting the injustices.

And for the record my credit stunk to high heaven for a long time too. Plenty of home based business need little to zero money to start up. Women need to empower themselves more, we really do. There is nothing we cannot do if we put our minds to it. Folks can't take advantage if we don't allow them to.

I'd be more than happy to exchange ideas with you on these points. You never know what we might learn from each other.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You must not use yourself as the example, you should look at statistics regarding wage gap.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

I absolutely do use myself as an example. I use my personal experiences and see what is going on around me in the business world as examples. Sure there are wage gaps, always have been , always will be. Do I think some of the CEO's out there getting these insane millions of dollars in bonus' is fair? Absolutely not. But its not going to stop me from doing what I have to do to live the life I enjoy. I am hardly in the 1% of the wage earners in this country,not even close, but Im not at the bottom either.
I work hard and play hard. At 54 yrs old I have finally found a good balance in my life of work, family, friends, hobbies, interests and travel. It never came to me easy or on a silver platter and I like knowing there really is nothing I can't do if I put my mind to it.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

It is not all about you is my point, and statistics will give you a better idea of what is going on in the world around you.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

No it certainly isn't all about me, but it is indictative of the communities I work and live in. That is not say that there are not other parts of the country that are struggling more. It is just what I see from my vantage point . I see who is willing to work and who isn't and what the skill levels are. I also see who is spending as far as my line of business and the affiliated trades and goods that go along with it. Today for instance, I just placed 3 young adults in a short term position . ( During college break) Puts holiday money in thier pockets while they are home from college and helps out the business owner who needed something done. All work isn't going to be fulltime grand jobs, but in if I can help someone out, I do. These days it is often all about networking.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You need to examine why you repeatedly say you hire "young adults", you could find a lawsuit on your hands because you consider it "teenage jobs". I am amazed you are still in business, I would not support you as a consumer. Please, don't bother responding back with another story of how you hired some more "young adults" to do another xyz job. I am done here.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 10 years ago

Thats ok. you can be done here with me. You have proved that you do not read posts in thier entirety , nor do you look beyond your own issues. You read stats and " facts" , yet refuse to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Why amazed I am still in biz? We put out a great service done by skilled craftspeople and trades people. ( Adults) You obviously have a problem with young adults working during summer break and college breaks to bring in some pocket cash, and at wages way higher than min.
As for a lawsuit? For what? For hiring a 21 yr old to do some part time work during Christmas break? Unfortunately it is folks like you who would rather moan and groan about your circumstances in life than change them.
Oh and as for mimes.. get a job doing kids parties. They are making $50 an hour in this part of the country.

[-] 1 points by iamalsoows (86) 10 years ago

Good idea. But watching and reading history tells me it will not work even if standing together. Nobody really listens. Pessimist? No, realist. You can deny anything and change attitude solely and you may be able to get a million people on your side but that will not change anything against riot police with guns and eventually army stepping in. Any solution? I believe not. Movies are made about fighting for minimum wages and what happened? Nada.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I forget how Grapes of Wrath ends, but everyone should watch it, that's for sure.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

Me again. Funny you mention Grapes of Wrath. My mom's family made the trip from OK to California during those times. They stopped in Mesa, Az the first season to pick fruit. When they arrive in Bakersfield, CA, my grandpa and the older kids got a job picking cotton. Something my grandpa did the rest of his life. My mom was born there and she helped once she was old enough. Seven of them lived in a one room shack the first year there and later moved into a four room house. My roots are real and from this earth. Want to hear about my dad's side of the family?

[-] 1 points by iamalsoows (86) 10 years ago

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032551/ right, nothing new under the sun. Nothing really changes. People think the past was then and has no relevance to now and the future. They live for the moment. Surviving is the same old business while the elite decided who shall win X Factor and such and decided who are in and who is out.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

Get busy finger painting. People with money are still buying art.

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Trouble is, I can't sell my stuff. Worth more for me to keep.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

Can you eat it or feed it to your kids?

Are you saying your art won't bring enough money to justify transfer of ownership?

That happens, try durable goods with practical applications and problem solvers are even better.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

A minimum wage job causes more problems than it solves.

[-] 0 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

I don't care. I've never worked for, or paid anyone, anything near minimum wage ever in my many years here. Don't sell your art, don't get a job, don't learn about the 1778 and 1871 Constitutions. Just object, piss, moan and bitch. Good luck.

[-] 0 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 10 years ago

good luck. what planet are you on?

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

OccupyPlanet. Next.

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 10 years ago

occupy mars ! good luck.

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[-] 0 points by NewEnglandPatriot (916) from Dartmouth, MA 10 years ago

Over time the locals get better wholesales while people stop going to the giants. While-Wal mart is still popular, people are trying to stay more local. Less travel to the big stores, outlets, etc means less fuel spent, more time available for family or to work where possible = about the same price. Time is priceless. This is working folks I am witnessing it the community is getting a little stronger around here.

[-] 0 points by NewEnglandPatriot (916) from Dartmouth, MA 10 years ago

That is all that is left is low paying jobs - it is do or die unfortunately. Already stopped spending back in 07-08 and drastically cut after losing my primary income. I started spending locally. Local restaurants, not chains - local stores small grocers. It costs a little more but give it back to local and rebuild from the community. That is where we need to start

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Nonono, HOME COOKING is where it's at. Poor people spend a ridiculous amount of their income on restaurant food. Marketers HATE the foreigners who cook their own meals at home. Watch the advertisers, they are starting to use indian-ish looking people in their ads to push American crap processed food.

[-] 0 points by NewEnglandPatriot (916) from Dartmouth, MA 10 years ago

No processed food here. I meant going out to a restaurant , a local one not a chain - on occasion instead of the chain. I mostly can only eat home all I can afford

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Good, Pack your lunch, Don't buy expensive drinks away from home either, keep your water bottle handy. People can save a LOT of money doing this.

[-] 1 points by NewEnglandPatriot (916) from Dartmouth, MA 10 years ago

Water is all I need, If I want coffee I brew @ home and thermos, same with tea iced tea, no soft drinks either

[-] 0 points by DiogenesTruth (108) 10 years ago

What jobs are you taking about?

[-] 0 points by bill1102inf2 (357) 10 years ago

TRUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! will take 50+% of Romneys votes and 75% of Obozos. Lets do this

[-] 0 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

That my friend is the basis of capitalism. You should be constantly re-negotiating your salary. If not with your current employer, then the potential next one. That is how you get off of minimum wage. You want to be paid more, become more valuable. I did it and so can you. I started stacking hay for a farmer at 5 cents a bale. I got to were I was stacking 160 bales per hour for 10 hours. That is right, $80 per day working my butt off! Now I average $3000-4000 per month as a graphic designer. Education bought and paid for by yours truly stacking hay and working as an apprentice electrician. Take that and academic/sports scholarships that subsidized my education and I have been doing fine. You can do this to! Dig deep and kick some butt!

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You have a fundamental lack of understanding. The minimum wage worker is not likely to stay at the same job, they do not have the kind of bargaining power you are under the impression somehow they have.

You paid for your education stacking hay bales and being apprentice electrician, and you got some scholarships, like sports and academics? I would love to see the numbers. Even with numerous academic scholarships and two jobs, most kids cannot afford college nowadays, ok? Times have seriously changed. One in four kids is on food stamps, they can barely do their academics with empty stomachs. Parents don't have time to enrich their kids with sports programs, they won't get a sports scholarships. Racism and sexism do exist too.

I worry that you think everything is fine and dandy in the world, and that you don't recognize abuses occurring to you right now simply because you have a mediocre job. Don't be so short-sighted. Had you not had a good high school experience, you might be homeless now. Thank your parents to some degree for a good high school experience. Try being single with no family, forced to drop out of high school. Then try to go to college.

It's great that you appreciate your job, but a shame you let it blind you to the abuse you take every day.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

Your assumptions are pretty far off the mark. Dad, mom and I were very poor. The first 10 years of my life, we lived in a 25' trailer. My bedroom was an inset next to the hallway that I shared with my sister. Dad had built an extra level as a bunk bed. My sister was born with Spina Bifida and the bulk of my dad's income went to paying for her doctor visits. She died at 2 y.o. when I was 4 y.o. Once dad finished paying off the doctor bills, we were able to move into a larger trailer when I was 10. When dad died, I had to start taking on those jobs to help my mom pay the bills. It was three years after I graduated high school that I walked on to a junior college soccer team. A year later, was when I earned my first scholarships in academics and sports. After two years, I transferred to a university to finish my third degree. (business, graphic art, mechanical drafting). You say my income is mediocre, so what. I work for myself, have great hours, live close to the earth and give back to my community. My bills are paid, I am close to paying off my home on 19 acres. I donate my time to a local soccer team (8 players have gone on to earn soccer scholarships) and I teach at the handicap ski school. My point is that I lived the poorest life that most can know. Myself and my mom dug ourselves out of it. Minimum wage will not get you that higher salary. Constantly bettering yourself to become more valuable, refuse to be a victim and mentoring others. These folks can do it and I will do what I can to help and prove it.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I do not mean to belittle honest work by saying mediocre job, I just don't want you to think you are an unaffected 1%er. What would have happened had you gone foster care, moved around place to place til you drop out of school, at 16, with no family home, nothing? How would you have gone to school, gotten work?

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

I am far from being a 1%er and I am very affected by our current economy. But to your statement. Would minimum wage fix this? Someone who lives in your "suggested" situation will have many challenges. Money they might make, aside from basic necessities, would probably be wasted on perceived gratification. What fixes this is an adjustment on thinking. What do you truly need to be happy. This person is so vulnerable to the trappings of what our society deems as success. Jewelry, electronics, movies, TV, fame, clothes, cell phones etc. All these are fun to have, but to base your self worth on the ownership of these things is faulty. This "person" needs to understand that first comes shelter, food, water. Then they can build on the rest and it does not come quickly. Notice that I do not refer to the 1%ers. I cannot change them, nor would I want too. I can only work on me. That is what we need to be teaching this 16 y.o. dropout. By the way, one of those 8 soccer players was a drop out, but I got him to keep playing club soccer. The team worked on the side to raise money to pay for the kids who did not have the funds to play. (One of those jobs was bucking hay). Wonder where they got that idea from. He now has a GED, goes to junior college and at least part of his tuition is paid for by a soccer scholarship. He is in his second year and doing well. This is what I am talking about.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You blame the poor more than the1%?

Graduating junior college is a piece of cake, relatively. Let's see him pay his university bill.

[-] 0 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

I do not blame anyone. I believe that you are the owner of your own destiny. If you put the work in, you improve your chances of success. Period. If you want to be paid more than a minimum wage, you work at becoming more valuable. You do not need a college education to get better pay. It helps, but you don't have to do it that way. Notice that you did not even commend my player for getting were he has gotten. Your first comment was, "Graduating junior college is a piece of cake, relatively. Let's see him pay his university bill." Well, lets see him pay it. I bet he does! Even if he chooses not to finish at a university, he has gone farther than most would ever have expected. He will succeed in spite of those who want to tear him down. Trust me, they are there and it is not the wealthy. It is his old buddies, family and others who cannot get past that he is succeeding. They tear him down every chance they get. He talks to me and I tell him that it does not matter what their opinion is. Your opinion is the one that counts.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You are the owner of your own destiny? Tell that to people who have been abused by society. I want that statement to be true for everyone.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

I will tell it to those who have been abused. IT is the best shot they have at making it. Teach a man to fish, instead of just giving him one. It is clear that we solve problems in different ways. You look outward and I look within. Maybe it needs to be a little of both. Good luck in you ventures. I will continue to help people in my own way. I know my impact is real.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Thanks, but people can't "fish" for themselves because there's none left. Corporations control everything, they have fish farms in the desert, and get subsidies we pay for.

[-] 0 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

With that attitude, you are correct for you. I catch fish everyday and daily teach others how to do the same. You want to be a victim, go ahead. I have not walked in your shoes and maybe life is just too much for you to handle. For that I am sorry. However, you have not walked in my shoes and I assure you that I have lived in poverty a large part of my life. I am trying to point a way to something better for you and others. Corporations and government have most of the power, no denying this. But there are ways out here to survive and succeed. As long as you keep your mind open to the possibilities. I will give you the last word if you wish, but I see that you really do not want to believe that there are ways to succeed on your own. Good luck

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You need to see more than the Republican talking points, the fish thing is old, tired, and lame.

[-] 0 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

Careful, your ignorance is showing. Sorry I wasted my breath.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Yet another thing Republicans do, blame others for exactly what they themselves are guilty of.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

First, I have been a registered Independent my whole life. I have never voted party line. I take each topic on its own merit. Second, all you have done is attack me from the start. I lay my life out there for you to scrutinize. I do it without shame because I know that the best chance anyone has at surviving in this f'd up world is to take care of themselves and those immediately around them. Third, I have blamed no one. My position has and will always be. Take care of yourself, take care of those around you. If everyone would do those two things....guess what. You want to split things up left and right. Well guess what honey...it does not work that way. The two controlling parties have us split up for one reason, divide and conquer. That is where your ignorance shows. As long as we are focused on left and right, they have us thinking about the wrong things. I dare you to think beyond the two parties. Tell me how improving yourself and helping those around you is some how affiliated with a political party. How am I so evil? I have helped dozens of kids and neighbors move beyond their station in life. What have you done? Bitch at someone with a positive message. All I ever said was that if you do not like how much you make, better yourself and make yourself more valuable. Tell where this is wrong? Some can do it better than others. I personally put a lot of my time into those who struggle with this because I have walked the walk and want to pay it forward. So, name call or tell me how you think it should work. I already got the name calling, now step up and tell me how it is supposed to be.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

How much income does your mother make? Did she inherit anything? I am sorry your sister died, but I would be interested to know how any of your single female, perhaps minority female friends or family fared alongside your timeline. Those who lived alone, did not share a roof, etc.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 10 years ago

My mom worked for the local county building department as an "Administrative Assistant". She was laid off last year do to budget cuts. No inheritance, except for the home that mom and dad owned. I guess she inherited the bills. My dads pension from work lasted four years after his death to pay for mortgage and necessities. Her income was around the mid- $20's at that time. Neighbors in the area are anywhere from doing about the same that we did to better and worse. The habits of those who did not do too well seemed to be spending time on things that did not improve their situation. Of course, that is not will all, but many. Look, the original post is about minimum wage/living wage. Though I believe that there should be a standard, it should not be at artificially inflated levels that cannot be sustained by commerce. Minimum wage should never be anything other than the starting point. Get the job, work hard and many times you can grow from there. If that employer does not work with you on that, then start looking for other jobs that pay better or supplement your current income. I cannot control the others, I can only control myself. Each time I deemed that I was not making enough, I changed the situation. Even currently, I have had to alter the type of work I do to fit the niche. I just feel that if others were encouraged and taught to think beyond the norm, they can succeed! Yes, these times are tough. I have taken my whoopings too. It motivates me to work harder, smarter and to also mentor others to do the same. You mention about others being alone.....don't work alone. Develop networks. I know it sounds fancy. Work together, babysit each others kids, grow gardens together, can food together, help each other fix you homes or shovel the snow, cut wood for the older folks in the area. That is what we do around here. You can do this anywhere if you just realize it. Maybe I do not make tons of money, but I have everything that I want and need. I am very aware of the dangers of losing all security. My main goals in life are to live debt free, take care of my family and friends. That is it.

[-] 0 points by blackbloc (-19) 10 years ago

every food service and retail employee should walk out and go on strike these are the only jobs out there even for college grads and these are jobs that used to pay well when stores and restaurants were mostly owned by small business owners 30 years ago they treat people like shit at these jobs the lowest possible wage and the least benefit and push all the social costs off on to society and the taxpayers it is bullshit the fucking waltons are loaded pay your fucking employees

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[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 10 years ago

If you choose to remove yourself from the labor pool in protest of low wages instead of learning new job skills to raise your own wages then nobody will miss you.

[-] 0 points by Fraqtive42 (87) from Herndon, VA 10 years ago

If everyone refused to take low wage service jobs, then America's entire economy would collapse because America is primarily a service-based economy. This is unfortunate.

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[-] -1 points by REALamerican (241) 10 years ago

God you people are ridiculous. What happened to the good ole days when Americans did whatever it took to make enough money, and were happy to do so? Why do you feel entitled to something you have not earned? You think we should start a janitor out at 18 dollars an hour? Someone working full time at minimum wage can earn enough to survive. Don't like it? Get two jobs!

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 10 years ago

What minimum wage jobs are you talking about? Retail? I personally see nothing wrong with kids taking part time jobs at minimum wage. I think they should pay for their own vehicles, their own clothing, their own interests. And they should save some for the future. The problem is that these generations from the 90s forward have learned nothing at all about spending in proportion to survival.

You could argue that we have become nation of retailers. And for that reason, some seem to believe their unskilled labor should be more highly valued; some might even argue that many of our minorities are not capable of more. I disagree on both counts.

And if you don't take them, the Mexicans will, for far less. Because they want to eat.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Vehicle? You ride the bus when you have a minimum wage job. Unless you live in your car. Wanting to eat should not be used as the tool it is in this country.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 10 years ago

I disagree; I think wanting to eat is a valid concern. And it is possible to rent an apartment, own and legally operate a motor vehicle (transport yourself), and eat, on minimum wage. And I know because I've done it.

Just curious but what do you people do when daddy finally cuts you off? People who are hungry don't waste their time shaking their fist at government and waiting for the world to change; they go find a job, and they change the world themselves.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

You are confusing minimum wage with living wage. Not at all the same.

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 10 years ago

Haha... no. The original posting stated "minimum wage," didn't it?

At 18, I was supporting myself on forty cents an hour less than minimum wage; I was working ten and twelve hours days, six and seven days a week... every bill got paid, I never went hungry, and to be honest, other than the creation of a very real incentive, it never phased me one way or the other. I would definitely encourage people to work by whatever means available.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Ok, in your next life try being a 25 year old black female in 2011.

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 10 years ago

The jobs are out there even for black females, especially in 2011, in this minimum wage category. The problem is that people don't approach this monster, and it really is a monster, with enough forethought and determination. You have to be smarter and tougher than the enemy, who is your employer, and probably a long list of employers, because they are definitely out to beat you. Realize that you are smarter... and play to win.

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 10 years ago

What? You mean like they do now?

Well, what happens is that they grow resentful of their own dependence; to depend on others is to forfeit free mind.

[-] -1 points by Karl101 (-6) 10 years ago

You occupiers are so estupido. Go ahead and quit any minimum wage jobs you or your occupy buddies have (i doubt you are employable). I don't think anyone will care, and we might get better service from someone who wants the job.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I don't work for minimum wage, I know better. It is immigrants, the young, and the poor who don't know they can work on their own doing ANYTHING for more than minimum wage.

[-] 0 points by Karl101 (-6) 10 years ago

Now you sound like a conservative (good!). Become an entrepreneur, start your own business, sounds good.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

I should not have to though. I should be able to get a decent wage from a company. I am not a conservative, as I care about the workers who DO make minimum wage and don't realize they can sell pencils door to door and make more money any day. I am interested in changing policy and giving info for the benefit of others, not for simply bettering myself.

[-] -1 points by Karl101 (-6) 10 years ago

so what is fair wage? Please tell me a better way to figure out a wage then using the market. I'll bet you will fall back to some communist rubbish reasoning.

[-] -1 points by simplesimon (121) 10 years ago

I know people who sell toilet paper door-to-door. They live in Haiti. They also sell water in plastic bags at intersections, wash windshields when your car stops, and they even cook and sell food on the roadside. Haitians scrap every day for their rice and a few gourde for internet time.

There is almost no frivolity in Haiti, with Petionville and Jacmel being the exception.

Go to Haiti and learn how to live. You obviously don't have a clue of how real poverty tastes. Most people in Haiti would take that minimum wage job and figure out a way to start their own business from what they learned.

Garage sale in Haiti? LOL! Let me tell you something. Almost every donation that goes into Haiti is distributed and SOLD at the open market. You know nothing of poverty when you pick and choose jobs, especially when you don't have one to begin with.

You are a shameless spoiled brat.

[-] 1 points by nolongerasleep (57) from Cleveland, OH 10 years ago

except this isn't Haiti. It's the United States of America

[-] 0 points by simplesimon (121) 10 years ago

That's right. Land of Plenty. Yet, OWSers are whining because they don't know how to get their share, and act in a manner opposite to what makes this country great.

If you want to mimic a third world country go and live in one. There's nothing new under the sun. If you truly want to effect change you live in a place where you have the opportunity to do that through hard work, success, and eventually self-actualization. You are a proponent of backwards, demoting, self-destructive behaviors.

Do your own compare and contrast. I've done mine, and most Americans would agree with my perspective.

[-] 2 points by nolongerasleep (57) from Cleveland, OH 10 years ago

actually I'm pretty successful. I've been a small business owner, I've golfed with CEOs. I see exactly how our system is broken. The barriers of entry to the market are getting ridiculous. The elite are trying to prevent the common man from getting anything resembling a fair share.

[-] 1 points by simplesimon (121) 10 years ago

What does one need to start a small business in both capital and regulation compliance?

[-] 1 points by nolongerasleep (57) from Cleveland, OH 10 years ago

Depends a lot on the area and what type of business you want to run. Most small businesses are llc's or limited partnerships because your assets and company assets are kept separate. It's very helpful in our litigious culture. Legal fees for documents and filings assuming you do it all yourself run up to $1,000 in my area, some places it's more. Capital start up depends on the business. Obviously a business where you provide services as an independent contractor is cheaper then starting a restaurant or grocery store. If you want to run a sole proprietorship then you pay $60-200 to register a fake name. You can circumvent that as well and just use your own name but that's really risking. Also if you get sued they can take anything they want.

[-] 1 points by simplesimon (121) 10 years ago

Thanks. Would you say the biggest problem is the hiring of employees and keeping within state and federal regulation?

[-] 1 points by nolongerasleep (57) from Cleveland, OH 10 years ago

the system in general is a pain in the ass. There are a lot of issues you run into that you normally wouldn't account for. Hiring employees is certainly one.

[-] 1 points by simplesimon (121) 10 years ago

Thanks man....

[-] -1 points by betuadollar (-313) 10 years ago

The rent's due and there's nothing in fridge; I think I need a job ... I'm not really sure, but, at what point do you think it might be acceptable for me to consider it?

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 10 years ago

Consider working? The second never of Jewvember. Just borrow a wad of cash, turn tricks to get it, and invest the money extracting wealth off the production of those who do actually work.

This activity, with intimate federal government involvement, is a large basis for what is wrong today and why when Minimum wage was $2.00 per hour, a person could just about make it, on that money, during that point in time. Same Federal Reserve Note/Debt Instrument then as now.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 10 years ago

The difference here, folks, is that I know the answer to this question because I've lived it; none of you ever have...

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 10 years ago

Minimum wage does not pay for both food and rent! You want both, you cannot have a minumum wage job.