Forum Post: What if China got it right ?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 30, 2011, 11:29 p.m. EST by fabrice
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Seriously?
" Respect for your parents, teachers, institutions, ..., etc and Children are taught to obey at an early age. "
We used to respect all of those things before they betrayed our trust and screwed us.
Also nobody seems to care about the constitution nowadays. So sure why not, lets burn the damn thing.
I don't why we've wasted all this time for materialistic assholes that don't care about anything else other than money.
I like this. We should do this.
china's building a shitload of nuclear power plants. they definitely got that one right.
i have often pondered the idea that China's top down management of the economy is superior to our best and brightest governing the economy and political matters. But taking the one percent into account, their system is not much different then ours. They just still respect their leaders. you can't force respect on people it is a reciprocated quality. no?
You have two kind of people those who will keep judging their leadership whether it's good or bad and those who will have an absolute positive attitude.
well, if we had their type of media, we would probably have their sunny disposition.(absolute positive attitude.) so that leaves me wondering again. why is our populous so quick to call foul?
Just a thought. Freedom of speech is less effective during economic downturn because there are no profits to share
You sir, are truly an idiot.
Yes, everyone obeys in a totalitarian society where they can be shot very easily for disobeying.
Well, China has a state of law. We won't be doing business with them if there were shooting people like in Syria
naive.
very fuckin naive....This ignorance is the #1 problem with the entire world
naive
china is a police state. china has no child labor laws.
There is clearly a difference of education in Hong Kong between Chinese and Westerner
Yeh, like the difference between a single-digit hairlip ( USA ) and a PHD rocket-scientist ( chinese ).
I'm still here, but I remember the 1980's well as I was there then and what struck me then was that the kids went to school 12 hours a day 7 days a week all year round at the time I thougt "Oh my god these kids could compete some day".
Well guess what its here, and now they'll do anything a US trained person will do for 10% the cost, and Indians will do it for 5%.
It's still good here for whites as they're still hiring to learn english and they still respect westerners, but you got to be here to work. But there is plenty of work, and unlimited beautiful women.
Does this answer your question??
Tiananmen Square protests
Tens of Millions of ProtestorsTiananmen ignites other groups protesting hardship, corruption, repression. The move from student protest to worker uprising frightens the government.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/view/
June 1989 - 300,000 troops turn Tiananmen Square into a war zone to crush pro-democracy demonstrators. One lone, unarmed man makes an incredible stand.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/view/
The Theater of MassacreThe real massacre was not in the square but elsewhere in the city. Eyewitnesses recount amazing things, climaxing in the tank man stopping the tanks.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/view/
chronology of chinese leadership decision making
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB47/doc13.pdf
training web page http://tinyurl.com/7rvpv43
Fascinating how all the original reply's from a few hours are now all gone, and all that remains is marconi and fabrice. Fascinating.
Anyway, OWS is going nowhere. There is no propositions ! At least ask to tax the 1% !!!
Tienanmen was 30 years ago when Chinese didn't walk toward progress and materialistic quest. Today, protests and strikes are in America, Europe and Arab countries but not in China which still have economic growth. The context is totally different than 1989. Think about the 1%.
Wow, you are absolutely naive. China controls the press like a hawk. There were many protests during the last Olympics, but they could barely be filmed. Your thinking is shallower then the tiniest of puddles.
CHinese protests: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/20/world/la-fg-china-solar-20110920
No, I am not but they do. Ready it again. Where OWS is heading ?
It doesn't matter where OWS is heading. I'm saying your analysis of current day China is highly flawed and simplistic.
The respect you talk of is not particular to Chinese culture, it is an Asian trait. I live in Indonesia and it's very much the same way. People are respectful of elders, of authorities, etc... People help each other and communities are very important. Nonetheless, Indonesia is a democratic republic like America. It is a capitalist country like America. It is not because China is a communist country that the culture of respect prevails. If China were to change their political system, their culture would remain more or less intact. Your analysis is highly flawed because you believe the culture of a people comes from the political system under which their country is controlled. This is not the case.
You don't need to live under a totalitarian communist regime to develop a sense of respect and community. China is about censoring what people can say and see. It's about not being able to vote for who represents you. It's about a tiny minority of rich people, and a large majority of poor people. It's about unhealthy conditions for workers, and a bad record for human rights. It's about putting journalists who talk to much in jail. It's not somewhere we want to be.
What about Japan? They also respect their elders and care for their community. I'm wondering. Have you ever been in Asia? It seems to me you have barely stepped out of your house.
Your whole article rests upon a highly flawed and simplistic three point logic.
The problem is point 1 and 2 do not lead to point 3. You are using a logical fallacy as the foundation for your claims. Do not do this. It's lame.
Monsieur, vous devriez étudier la question avec beaucoup plus de sérieux.
I feel it... I've been to Thailand... and what an awakening... All the Thai, even the very poor feel that they owe something to their society... and they contribute something every day... if nothing other than to keep the streets clean... what a difference from America... American's think that society owes them... I'm sure Indonesia is the same way...
Ya. Indonesia is very similar to Thailand in that respect.
I tend to suspect, at least with China and Japan, that the widespread social unrest, violence and starvation that accompanied the Warring States Period [China, c.400-200 bc] and the civil wars in Japan [c1600 ad] played a significant role in shaping behavior.
At the very least, with respect to China, the Waring States Period saw the rise of both Confucianism and Taoism - with Taoism taking a different approach to the whole obedience thing than Confucius - but in a way I do think they tend to be mutually supportive of the whole social attitude . . .
well. never mind.
You may me right. But never forget that a basic tenant of Confucianism s obedience to authority. Not long ago I read that the Communist party has reintroduced Confucianism back into the schools.
They won't touch Taoism though - unless they can control it the way they try to with the Catholics.
True.
The idea of respect and communal thinking comes much more from religion than from government structures. The point is, it is much more complicated than fabrice makes it out to be. We can make a crude dichotomy of individualism vs communalism and match it with Western vs Eastern style of living. In a broad stroke, it would be correct. All asian countries have been influenced by the culture of China a very long time ago. What's important to realize is that there are many countries in Asia that are not communist, but still retain this culture of respect and communal thinking. Fabrice should have taken a trip to Indonesia or the Philippines before writing his article. It would have saved him from making a naive logical fallacy.
I wasn't trying to support Fabrice - to me the idea that communism resulted in the social pattern of respect for elders, respect for authority, is just silly.
Confucius stressed respect for both, but as a matter of religious belief I don't think his philosophy is all that wide spread in Japan - although the behavior seems to be, in some fairly specific ways, I think.
So I'm not sure how much of it stems from religion, and how much from the conditioning that results from widespread violence and famine. I think the dictates of survival itself tend toward strengthening the bond of family, and community, when people are faced with brutality on the scale both nations faced at different times.
I don't think it coincidence that both Confucius and Lao Tzu rose up at around the same time, under the similar social conditions. I think in part they were reflecting something much larger, and were clinging to things that actually produced positive results amid chaos.
Each society underwent chaos at some point or another, but is remains clear that Westerners are more individualistic than Asians or even Africans. I can't say it's absolutely religious, but I believe religions played a part in this a long time ago. The people of Japan were influenced by China's past. The idea of respect for elders and communal thinking goes back thousands of years. Even if religion is not practiced much in places like Tokyo, this idea of respect is already imbued in the culture. All Asian cultures trace their roots in China's past. That's when this idea of community started.
that's kinda what I said . . . about 400 bc - about the time of the Hellenic period in Greece.
Ever hear of the Great Leap Forward? Read a book.