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Forum Post: What I would like to see from conservatives

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 14, 2011, 6:06 p.m. EST by cubedemon (185)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

This is personally what I would like to see from conservatives. I have already seen some of this by a couple of folks. I am impressed. My respect increased for these two members 5 fold.

  1. Quit using hackneyed phrases like "you're entitled to nothing, life is not fair" yadda yadda yadda In my opinion, you're adding fuel to the fire. They are vague, ambigious, and tell no one anything.

  2. If you all have a way those in the OWS can obtain obtain jobs and get back on their feet please show them.

  3. Show those in OWS in logical where they are wrong and why they are wrong if they are wrong about anything. Maybe even mentor some folks.

  4. If anyone has a logical question please provide a logical response instead of using sarcasm.

  5. There seems to be a root belief that a lot of us had and that is going to college was the way to obtain a job and it was the bottom? Start showing why this was wrong and how we all can proceed from here. Please answer if we were all lied to or did we all misunderstand. If fraud was committed please provide the answer as to why one should not pursue justice in this case at all. If it was either fraud or misunderstanding I think students from now on should be told what the facts are about the workplace are and students need to fact check these things as well. This was already addressed in another thread but I do think if you conservatives want to get what you want I believe you need to start changing your tactics from scorn and attack to helping people out and using logic to show where some people are wrong and why. By the way, I am grateful for help I received in the other thread.

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9 Comments


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[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

These comments make sense. But whether or not they'll do any good is another matter. Many of the so-called conservatives are, in fact, on here solely to disrupt, discredit, and discourage. For these, no amount of logic will make a bit of difference.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Many might be. Some surely are. But "many" and "some" are not "all" and you're going to miss out on a whole lot of learning and growing and progress in your life if you automatically assume that you know what motivates every individual whose beliefs and responses do not mirror your own. We can all teach each other something-even if at best what we teach each other is patience and forgiveness. But to assume that any living soul cannot improve your knowledge or understanding or viewpoint at all-is truly to lose the very opportunities that might change your life for the better.

[-] 1 points by cubedemon (185) 2 years ago

This is the main reason I am here. I want to try to learn. My perceptions could be wrong. I am really sorry that I insulted anyone. There was no intent on my part to insult. Will you all forgive me? The thing is I want to try to make a better country in which all can get what they need. How can everyone be given what they need without forcing anyone against their will to provide it? Both sides seem to have sound points. In a way I agree with partly liberals and conservatives. They both seem to be correct in different ways. There must be a way to resolve this equation. How do I determine what the absolutes truly are? How can we all mesh together with our varying belief systems and make a coherent, logical, and sound whole in which we can all obtain some objective truths which cannot be refuted and are not contradictory and inconsistent. Maybe I'm perceiving these belief systems wrong. If I am how do I determine what the correct belief system is and how do I interpret it in the way it is supposed to be interpreted? Is there a formula that I can go by?

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Cube-I wish there was an easy answer. If we were dealing with numbers or scientific equations it would be different. But we're dealing with people and ideals and goals and ideologies and faith and lack of faith and all of those things compute into a billion different variables as they act and react to each other. Absolutes aren't always possible. People aren't mathematics.

Making a "better" country is entirely reasonable, because everyone can improve, everyone can change something about themselves for the better. But I honestly, and logically, to not believe that a perfect country-or even a reasonably perfect one-is even possible. How do you make something "whole" if even one person's idea of what "whole" is, is different from everyone else's....much less EVERYONE having a different idea of it?

Truth SHOULD be objective. It should be something everyone recognizes and accepts without letting their feelings or opinions affect it. But people don't seem to want to be objective anymore. They want the truth to be SUBjective, They want it to change based on their feelings, or desires, or what they THINK should be right or wrong. They don't want to feel guilty or "wrong" anymore, so they changed it so that "anything" was "right". That's part of the problem this country has. We've stopped demanding that certain things are wrong and certain things are right and that everyone should uphold those same standards. We became "politically correct" instead of "truthfully correct"...and when that happened...real evil, selfishness, and bitterness entered our society.

And you didn't insult anyone....at least not on purpose and not anyone who is being an adult. :-) Both sides DO have good points and eventually both sides WILL have to work together if all want things to improve. But there has to be a clear plan laid out, a real goal that both sides can agree on before either side will make that jump. It HAS to be logical-it has to make sense-or truly intelligent, logical, well intentioned people will not get on board.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

My main point was that there are people on this site for the sole reason to disrupt honest conversation but you are correct in that it's not always easy to tell the difference between them and those that merely disagree.

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[-] 0 points by KahnII (170) 2 years ago

You can't mentor those who disregard truth and logic.

[-] 0 points by KahnII (170) 2 years ago

What I would like to see from liberals.

Put your big boy pants on, some hard work, personal responsibility and quit bitching.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

Cube-

You mentioned that you have Aspergers. Such a condition causes problems with understanding certain social norms, interpreting nuances in speech, and difficulty with social interaction.

For example-#1 above-it is unusual to expect polite, patient responses from people after you've called them hackneyed. While some phrases do tend to get overused, some of them contain common sense general truths which do in fact convey the exact message the speaker is trying to set forth.

2 above-Many conservatives have listed job opportunities on this forum, or even visited the occupations asking for workers. They haven't gotten a great response. This tends to curtail further advice being offered. If you are looking for a job, I'd tell you to do exactly what I do when looking for a job-contact local employment agencies, job recruiters, and websites directed at my specialty. If you need financial help, most communities have financial service groups that offer help to people for free. Coming to a forum based on a particular activist movement isn't the most rational, logical place to seek employment or financial advice.

3 above-It is not logical to conclude that all OWS posters want to be mentored or that they are interested in finding out whether they are right or not. People are not carbon copies of each other, in fact, no two are completely alike. Not even identical twins. It is also not logical to assume that any given conservative is representative of the entire group.

4 above-Because every poster on this forum does not know you, or your condition, not all posters are going to assume you are being serious or logical with your questions and some are bound to reply with sarcasm or disbelief. Get used to it and either explain yourself more fully or ignore such responses.

5 above-Communication between human beings is often difficult in the best of situations-such as in person, face to face and in depth to the point where both people leave the conversation fully understanding exactly where the other person is/was coming from. Conversing online makes things more difficult. Conversing online AND dealing with the Aspergers aspect makes things EXTREMELY difficult.

Because you take things extremely literally, you may have determined from what others have told you, that getting a college degree is the ONLY way to get a job. And perhaps many of the people who told you that actually believed it to be true. None of us can determine that because we were not present during those times, and we don't know those people or exactly what they said. But the FACT is that many, many people, myself and my husband included, did NOT attend college or did but did not get a degree. And we both work.

So, were "all " lied to? Or "some"? You are asking questions that are impossible to answer because all people do not have the same experiences. Is getting a college education a good idea and would most people agree that it is? Yes-most would. But their reasons for saying it is good might be different. Some might think that moving out of the house and being around peers your own age is a required growing-up experience. Some might think that all knowledge is valuable and that learning is a gift in it's own right. Some might think that a college degree is required to have a good job. You can't determine "fraud" unless you can determine someone's motives for saying what they said.

I think students should be told the facts about the workplace and what they face. I know that my own college aged daughters knew what to expect, but I cannot tell you if that was because we as parents prepared them for reality or if they were "told" the facts by teachers or professors, or friends or if they somehow gleaned that information themselves from reading the news and staying on top of current events in society. I have no idea. But the fact remains that millions and millions of people have grown up in American society and either figured that out themselves, or been prepared for it somehow. If our current unemployment rate is 10%-then 90% of workers have worked it out just fine.

It's one thing to feel cheated or lied to, and if that is how you feel then you're feelings are what they are. It is entirely a different thing to claim that you actually have been LIED to or CHEATED outright. Logic shows us that even when a conclusion is true-such as the fact that you feel angry/cheated/frustrated/lied to-your premises can still be false-that you WERE lied to, or deliberately misled.

I hope this helped even a little. I truly feel for your situation. But, that does not mean that I won't respond in the future with sarcasm or hackneyed phrases. I'm human, and what one person finds delightfully spontaneous and entertaining another might find annoying and childish. THAT is the beauty of the human race.