Forum Post: What exactly is #OWS???
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 17, 2011, 12:05 a.m. EST by JR1017
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Call me out of the loop or ask me where I've been but what exactly is the purpose of the #OWS movement? I think it's time I'm educated by those who support or do not support.
Occupy Wall Street: The 'Squidding' of Goldman, Sachs - Rolling Stone is an expression of our general dissatisfaction, one that is felt far beyond our protest lines, of members in savings and investment banking to engage in fraud with impunity, reap huge rewards in the form of salary and bonus, while tanking their corporations and forcing the government to provide bailouts to keep the economy functioning.
This is one single issue among many that the Occupy movement is and has become active on nation wide.
The best solution is for you to identify sources of outrage within yourself toward the system as it is, and check with your local Occupy organization to see if there is activism on the issue, or if not, interest in beginning activism in that direction.
I think you're exactly right, ZenDog, on that point. Occupiers of every stripe I think agree on the basic Problem but are animated locally or even more abstractly to engage different aims for and in the movement...some being organizational FOR the movement, some locally to meet needs and educate their communities, others with interests dearer to their own experience of the Corporatism they and their families suffer from...health care, wage issues, tyrannical spirit of authoritarianism rampant in the workplace, environmental degredation, education funding, taxing fairness...etc.
"The best solution is for you to identify sources of outrage within yourself toward the system as it is, and check with your local Occupy organization to see if there is activism on the issue, or if not, interest in beginning activism in that direction."
That is exactly what I did when I first came here. Now I'm branded a troll. Which I have now come to accept and embrace.
I believe I've mentioned before that with that name of yours it is difficult to take you seriously.
Would you present yourself at your local GA meeting and announce that you are a major whack off artist?
Not very likely - yet possible.
So tell us - what brings you to Occupy . . .
This is my third name now. First one was an legitimate attempt. Originally came here basically as you described. Attempted to find common ground (my views really aren't radical) and was flamed beyond belief. I made attempts with well thought out posts containing sited information that I did not think would be very controversial only to have replies of gay porn spam and name calling.
Being told that my views and ideas were not welcome amongst a "movement" that claims to represent everyone did leave me slightly jaded. Even with all that my main goal of helping OWS identify the real issues still remains. The only thing that changed was my coarse of action, which consists of sarcastic remarks to flawed ideals.
well don't give up. the thing with the internet and a forum like this is that there is a lot of whitespace - people get lost in it.
This forum is really a poor reflection of what's happening on the ground, but it does serve to illustrate the mindset of those who oppose us, and in a really clear way.
It also serves as a vehicle to communicate to those who oppose us, through their paid minions who arrive here to sow confusion and doubt.
They carry a lot of baggage, lets see they take it with them.
Ok, try me. what key points are your trying to make?
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein.
"Attempted to find common ground (my views really aren't radical) and was flamed beyond belief. I made attempts with well thought out posts containing sited information that I did not think would be very controversial only to have replies of gay porn spam and name calling. Being told that my views and ideas were not welcome amongst a "movement" that claims to represent everyone did leave me slightly jaded."
And THAT ladies and gentlemen is exactly what most people think OWS is about.
I think currently that is what OWS is about, but I think with patience and perseverance it can be molded into something resembling function.
I think your on the right track to ask that question....but you'll find out soon enough that in fact it is YOUR opinion that OWS is all about. The fact is the opinion of all people worldwide has been quashed, and here, you will probably find no single reason for protest, you will find too many to contemplate...
A:
1) If you are an economically and politically aware American you know by now of the history and corruption that have taken up residence in and which now dominate our political process, government and economic/financial institutions and our industries on the environment. You also are aware of the need of more to be aware of the history of the US Federal Reserve and the reality that idealistically, if there was some way to eliminate it and the fractional reserve banking system along with bringing US industry back to our shores, these among many things, especially a return to running our country as the founders intended observing the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Federalist Papers would do much to return the US to it's former standing.
2) Due to the corruption in politics and especially if you have been through a minimum of 3 Presidential election cycles including the last one, 'the proverbial nickel' has dropped and you realize that We The People have only one choice when it comes to the S-election of a President because Wall Street's BIGGEST companies fund either or both candidates so what we have is one party, The Party of 'A' or 'B' By now you are so disgusted with where things have devolved to that you may have relinquished any party membership opting to remain 'Independent' and no, I'm not talking about 'American Independent' which is a shade of Republican to the right of far right. You may even have become so disgusted as a coworker told me he did and decided to never vote again after having been 'churned' by /the politics of your day (in his case, he came of age in the 1960's and was vehemently against the war/Vietnam and quit voting apparently after Nixon) At this point I could never not want to be registered to vote and feel that at the least, as long as I vote all elections the local ones at least have more effect than my write in or alternate votes for President.
3) You are aware that you are also a World Citizen and that by participating in OWS you are supporting the promotion of freedom, fairness, respectfulness and peacefulness among peoples with the common bond of at the least a peaceful coexistence respectful of differences.
4) You know that definitions of community, home, economy and industry are in need of constantly changing concepts and welcome those which allow for the maximum benefit with the goal to improve on and seek the lowest impact to natural resources within our shared biosphere-good old planet earth which at this point in human history we can't replace and which with our industries (nuclear for example) we could theoretically destroy.
5) While seemingly formless, you recognize that while OWS embodies a population of participants with eclectic knowledge and viewpoints you accept that while some have more comprehensive understanding of the biggest most vital issues of contention that even those with the simplest understanding that 'Obviously the World is Sick' due to economic hardship beyond their control for example (ie:someone perhaps with an IQ at the level of a child or maybe even a child) can mobilize together towards long overdue political, economic and industrial justice.
WTF do you mean by "it's time I'm educated" ?! You just joined The Forum today ! Strikes me you should read, Read and READ !! + Don't start off down The Troll Path so soon !!!
Oh, did I say what to read ? The Threads and posts of course, tho' some books and websites won't go amiss either ( eg. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ ; http://www.opensecrets.org/ ; http://ni4d.us/ etc). See what is said ; THINK for yourself and stop asking to be spoonfed your own opinions ...
Get Real JR.
I'm not being swayed by either side and I am thinking for myself. Don't be so quick to assume what my motive is. I'm able to admit that I haven't been paying attention to the movement and I'm in the dark as to what's happening and along with this site I've been doing my research and reading. Thanks for the links though.
If you think things are going just great, not just for you personally, but for the world in general, then what OWS is about probably wouldn't resonate with you no matter what anybody said. On the other hand, if you've noticed, for example, that the European economies are on the verge of collapse, that unemployment in America is at near depression levels, that many young people today graduate from college with debts that they will probably be saddled with for the rest of their lives, that more and more people are under water on their mortgage payments and being foreclosed on a daily basis, that the US has the largest per capita prison population in the world and that it is disproportionately made up of minorities, that the US military is over extended and America is involved in military adventures around the world which it cannot afford and which do nothing to extend the values of democracy, that the discrepancy of wealth between the super rich and everyone else is greater than it has been in over a century, that we have very nearly reached the point of no return in terms of global warming and within a couple of centuries the planet may be uninhabitable by human beings---if any or some of this actually bothers you, then, that's what OWS is about and OWS is for you.
Translation: OWS is about the 8 issues above, along with pretty much everything else you are mad about, including the plight of the Palestinians, immigration reform, the inability to camp in public parks, and the imprisonment of a cop-killer. And because it is about everything, it will ultimately be about nothing. Red jazz embodies the lack of focus that will bring an end to the movement.
The "issues" that OWS is about were very clearly deliniated in the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City which the NYC GA promulgated days after the occupation began. It includes, not eight, but more than 20 grievances. It is about everything because it is about the total transformation of society and not just in the United States. It is addressed, after all "to the people of the world." That will take years, probably decades, and perhaps several lifetimes. Patience is a revolutionary virtue.
aahhhh....now your opinions are becoming clearer....You DO NOT in fact support occupy.....
No, not in it's current evolution. I opposed the bailouts, can't stand political corruption, so the origins of the movement resonated with me. But the tactics put me off, and the lack of clarity drove me away. I can't go with it where it has gone.
Great.... so why aren't you trying to support directions that appeal to you rather than tearing down those that don't?
What direction would you wish that OWS did take? And how? Do you have any suggestions to this effect?
I wish it avoided clear alliances with the far left of the American political scene. I wish it realized early on that the camps were unsustainable, and left them before they were forced to leave them. I wish it stuck to the issues that matter to most people rather than wander all over the map and adopt the "insert your grievance here" approach that red jazz spells out so clearly. I wish it realized that the solution would entail working within the system rather than making a lot of noise outside the system.
Ummmmm...so your saying the best thing occupy could do is stop protesting and re-engage the system? That CAN'T be why your here....
Oh, one more. I wish OWS hadn't tried today to seize the property of a church in NY that had already been generous in it's support of the movement, but had decided to not grant that request. Again, they come across as a bunch of entitled brats wanting something given to them. Sad.
I come to see if there is more rationality to the debate, more clarity to the focus, more ideas that resonate or credible leaders that emerge. Not seeing much of that amidst the hunger strikes for use of public parks and the letters of support from cop killers. I chime in occasionally, but don't expect to see things change.
Congressmen Alan Grayson explains it here in less than a minute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcjeUFodYfQ&list=FLEwSllwonAZBCc7W3e27_dQ&index=30&feature=plpp_video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-3hZsXrxaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQqjTxI3vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8
Here are the kings of inhumane values! They are the Lords of the Dirty Fucks!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-evildoers/
The Revolution starts here!
The basic premis of the movement is two fold. The first is to get corruption out of government and the second is to get big buisness out of government. Having said that, It for the most part has been high jacked by alot of far left organizations that have tainted these two very good starting points. It is hard to tell what direction it is going to take. Only time will tell if these two basic ideas remain the focus or if one of the stronger of the many other far left sects take control.
I think the premise for OWS is even more basic than what you mention; that those who have get a little compassion for those who have not.
( Respectfully, about your two points, which I most profoundly support, they are a means of getting there, but they are certainly not the only means, and stopping this system of corruption that we all find ourselves in will be much more complex than what can be solved by only what you mention. So, OWS is inherently multifaceted. Unfortunately, too many perceive it as being only leftist, and sure there is that element, but there are several dimensions.)
I think that there are a great many people who identify with these goals and who feel and think that they are members of Occupy, though not so much OWS. It's a "Yes, but" situation at present where these occupiers agree that this goal is ultimately important but who have different degrees of confidence/doubt that this goal is achievable, and thus are developing other strategies that strike at the heart of this central issue with emphasis on different angles of attack by which they are animated to engage the fight. There is a huge group of ostensive occupiers, whom like I said agree with this starting point as their aim, but who are not gonna personally engage political action through the conventional means another large group of occupiers believes is THE method to achieve this end, though still prepared to ally with OWS in their organized effort to achieve this goal through political involvement, voting, organizing and the like.
Then there are others who move even further away from this specific aim, as a practical motivating issue, and want to address immediately the needs of those who are presently suffering from the oppression and loss that this Problem has caused. Occupy General, as the movement per se, will have to figure out a way to bring these disparate groups together for demonstration of their shared, ultimate goal...socially, politically and so forth.
I think you're right overall, tinhorn, except for the part about it being hard to tell what direction it's going to take. It's definitely veering hard left, more so all the time, and alienating people in droves along the way. Popularity has been in free fall ever since it was clear that OWS was just going to be another far-left interest group. Sad.
That's not the case...quite the contrary. But I don't think it's worth debating...so, keep your opinion.
The first 2 items you mentioned are the same as the TEA Party but after that, a massive divergence occurs.
they want things they have not earned. take from the rich to support the poor. in a word... they should all move to France.
Not true. More like, greedy rich folk don't take what little I've already earned.
Besides Robin Hood is a good guy, and France is a nice place.
Sounds like the majority of politicians we have in office...collecting tax dollars and hurting the country more than they are helping.
I agree
Starve the BEAST
Trying to do my best in that respect sir. I can't say I'm keeping all the money I could out of corporiticians hands yet, but getting better at it every day.