Forum Post: What does it mean to you?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 8, 2011, 9:20 p.m. EST by MVSN
(768)
from Stockton, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
What does "World Revolution" mean to you?
I have to be honest I read a lot of these forums to try and get a since of where this movement is going and I think its going exactly the way the 1% wants it to. If we post 500 posts a day and each receives about 50 or 60 comments are we really discussing things or getting anywhere. I don't claim to know it all and that is the point. For a political party to go into office and believe that they know exactly how to better the economy is ridiculous. Yes they may have some great ideas, but why not consider what the general public has to say. Oh that's right because it doesn't matter what we think. I don't claim to know everything, but collectively I think WE can figure it out.
I am just suggesting that we narrow the posts down to general topics that people can discuss. For example, this could be used as a post on a forum under the category of Media Relations. We should have topics on economy, education, healthcare, etc. That way we can read 5000 or 6000 posts relating to one topic. If WE want to be taken seriously we have to narrow our focus and give tangible ideas. For example, We can have free healtcare if 5% of our taxes goes to provide utilities to run these hospitals. In return we can reduce the fed tax by 5%. I am just stating tangible examples, once again I am not claiming to know everything just giving my suggestions.
I can't quantfy what it means, but I think of the million man march. And that's what I think eventually needs to happen after we pick our own candidates who we can support and who would finally represent the 99% percent.
The million man march? And that changed what? Nothing.
its a pipe dream - its never happened - it never will
id rather WORK on something real
I'm the author of the long anti-CU post that included info on the prohibition amendment & used the 83% poll number. I expect to have a meeting on Nov 11 around 5PM at 60 Wall Street to work on the anti-CU constitutional amendment. If you can attend, please reply via "private message". If you cannot attend, please send me any ideas you would like to share with us - especially how to spread this idea to other Occupys & other groups to create massive pressure on congress.
If you live outside of NY, can you help in your state? bensdad = John
Joining together to effect a global change in circumstance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzPozWf0ZaQ
This is my contribution to the movement. Please watch and share... Thank You!! -Markell
It means "Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss" - now let the hating begin...
Same old, same old, means no change, and no revolution. How about no more bosses?
but someone has to make the decision for no more bosses...and they will be the new boss...
Lenin was freeing Russia from the aristocrats, freeing the land for the people. Very quickly, however, the Bolsheviks were wearing the old imperial clothes left behind by the Romanovs, and Lenin himself was presiding in the presidential Palaces of St. Petersburg and Moscow (why I believe his body is still embalmed and open for public viewing, talk about ego!). When the soldiers at Kronstandt, the very soldiers whose support was crucial to the revolution against the aristocracy, when they rebelled against Lenin and wanted a more open government with multiple parties, the Reds went at them and killed them off. In other words, full revolution, no matter what the inspiration, will always replace the old leaders with new leaders, who will act a lot like the old leaders. Did anything change for the peasants because of the Bolshevik Revolution...not at all (in fact, in the immediate, things were much worse as the Red soldiers took all the grain to feed themselves, millions starved to death b/t 1917 and 1921).
Has any world revolution helped the poor masses? I don't think so...in France it led to Napolean, in Iran to the Ayatollahs, in Cuba to Castro (I know American lefty's love this man and his buddy Che, but please, you people cry if some cop pepper sprays you for protesting in the streets, you act like its the most vile inhumane act since Bull Conor unleashed the dogs on the Freedom Marchers - you wouldn't last a week in a Cuban jail for political dissention), In Cambodia the ending of all debt and all society led to Pol Pots Year 0, where one-third of the people were slaughtered in the name of re-education, the list goes on...Never has there been a vacuum of power where the most ruthless people didn't take over in the name of freeing the people (I believe the road to hell is paved with such good intentions). We Americans have yet to reap what we have sown in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Egypt. I personally fear 9/11 will be nothing compared to what comes next.
The animal kingdom works in some order, nature works in some order, the stars work in some order, math physics and chemistry work in some order...we humans are no different, we are beasts like lions in the jungle. We need order and we will need leaders. Even sports teams have captains!
The best we could do is an honest democracy where each vote really counts and corruption is removed from the process. That is why I (generally) support OWS and that is the message I stick with. Communism is just an inverted form of capitalism where the government is the big corporation ruling our lives. Anarchy is a nice little slogan that looks good next to a Sex Pistols backpatch but it is not a real political system by any means. Spiritual rule is frightening (no virgins in heaven for me, please, I'd rather not blow up) and pure chaos a la Somalia or Liberia or Congo really does scare the hell out of me (why couldn't it happen here in the US?). Anyway, that's my little rant, but it's what I believe. If the US could be more like Finland or Sweden, where the gap between rich and poor isn't so great, and where everyone gets some decent healthcare and education, and where there is respect for the environment and the general culture (rather than the culture of pure greed), I'd be ecstatic. But turning the world on its heels only leads to pure bloodshed and the people still get screwed.
All of your examples of revolution were carried out through violence, and basically involved changing who was at the top of the hierarchy instead of an actual change in the structure of power. To say that something that has not happened before can never happen could be true, or it could merely be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I think you have a fantastic idea, but if the man across the way from us, the one holding a gun who doesn't care about the altruistic-brotherhood-of-man-where-all-is-equal-and-all-is-free, that man has more of a say in our lives than we do, as long as his gun is loaded and he is wiling to use it. That man with the gun can end our lives while we twiddle our fingers discussing something as meaningless as "structure of power". So I repeat, and this is final, the man with a gun has more say in our lives than we do, and there are more guns then there are people who believe in some pie in the sky utopia.
Oh, I don't think that constituting a global direct democracy would give us utopia. We have some serious issues to deal with: climate change, the end of cheap oil, and so on that mean we are going to have a bumpy ride even if we did change the structure of power.
It's true there are a lot of guns and other ways to act violently; that's same old, same old. The thing that has never happened before is an Internet that can be accessed by at least half of humanity. We may reach that point in our development sometime in 2012.
If just one out of a million people is a super genius with the capacity to make a breakthrough in renewable energy, soil or water conservation, or other technology or artistic expression that could make the world a much better place, then we have thousands of super geniuses on the planet right now. Give it a chance.
Nonviolently turning the current globally pervasive, hierarchical structure of power upside down.
Why would you want to turn the current hierarchical structure upside down? That seems like a lot of wasted time.
Because leaving such a disproportionate amount of wealth and power in the hands of the top 1% results in a lot of wasted lives.
If you turn the hierarchy upside down, you'll switch the farmers with corrupted politicians. It's like turning the sandglass upside down, it doesn't make much of a difference. I was hoping Occupy wanted to flatten the hierarchy and turn it into an anarchy where everyone would be on the same level.
How do you envision realizing a global anarchy?
Personally, I don't think it's possible.
So, is hoping for it a waste of time?
No, I don't think so because I could very well be wrong. It also might lead to other ideas. Thinking and hoping is never a waste of time.
i am a mutualist/anarcho-capitalist not sure yet
Keep learning about all the different political systems, and encourage thinkers in all of them to keep pushing the limits. Advances in one field help the advances in another. Let's push our minds in turbo gear.
One full turn of Earth on its revolution axis.
[Deleted]
Who ever said it was?