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Forum Post: What do these people have in common? Mayor Bloomberg, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hanity, Tammy Bruce, Sarah Palin, Eric Harley, Mark Levin, Jim Bohannon, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Lara Ingraham, Jerry Doyle, and Bill O'Reiley?

Posted 8 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 7:13 a.m. EST by ModestCapitalist (2342)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

They are all blithering slobbering idiots.

To all of the filthy disgusting rich pigs and sold out corporate media personalities trying in hopeless miserable crying pants wetting vain to intimidate OWS: That means you Bill O'Reiley, Sean Hanity, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Lara Ingraham, Eric Harley, Tammy Bruce, Ann Coulter, Jim Bohannon, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Jerry Doyle, and so many others. Don't you get it yet? Are you really that fucking stupid? Let me explain it to you one more time. 

We are sort of like a colony of hornet's. We've been here in this tree for sometime now. Watching from a distance as our surrounding environment gets more and more screwed up by pigs like you. So one day, we finally get fed up and swarm.

You see where I'm going with this? What about you Limbaugh? Hanity? Coulter? Anyone out there in pig land see where I'm going with this?

That's what I thought. No clue. Let's continue.

So we're out here swarming to defend the environment surrounding our nest. Our cause is just. Anyone with half a brain would keep their distance or at least behave more responsibly in the environment that we all have no choice but to share. Anyone with half a brain that is.

The bunch of you pigs must have well under half a brain collectively. You actually believe that you can intimidate or manipulate a swarm of hornets. You've tried everything from stupid jokes to lame insults to grade school psychological tricks and diversionary tactics. But we're still here. Still, we swarm. In fact, your half-wit strategies to intimidate or manipulate us have only stirred up more hornets. Another day. Another nest. 

Still, you try in hopeless miserable crying pants wetting vain to intimidate or manipulate us. You just keep ramping up the same old ineffective strategies. 

Still, we swarm.

You might want to consider altering the reckless behavior that got us all stirred up to begin with.

In the meantime, you might want to prepare yourself a soothing oatmeal bath.  

You are going to need it.

125 Comments

125 Comments


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[-] 4 points by 99nproud (2697) 6 years ago

Listen to Occupyradio

http://interoccupy.net/occupythemedia/

http://occupythemedia.podomatic.com/

It's better than extremist bloviation!

[-] 5 points by Imjustsayin (87) 6 years ago

Occupy radio is very cool. Haven't heard of it before.

[-] 8 points by Renneye (3874) 6 years ago

Yes, it is very cool! It's the one post I zeroed in on today. Which led me to check out the tab at the top of this page named "InterOcc". Sadly, I, and I'm sure many others have not checked it out in detail before. I was surprised to see just how many connections are bridged there. Things that have been discussed on this forum many times with the mistaken notion that they weren't set up yet. It feels to me that much of the information and connections with 'InterOcc' have not been properly utilized, though I could be wrong.

I really wish that jart would open up the 'sign-up' page again so people who want to get in on the discussion could do so, and we could build our numbers again.

I think closing the sign-up page was a drastic measure that punished the wrong people...potential new users. At the very most it should have been a very temporary solution to a very temporary problem.

I posed this very sentiment to jart via PM, but did not receive a response.

At the risk of getting flack from the remaining users here...I don't think it is necessarily bad to give constructive criticism when one sees there is much opportunity for progress with this forum that isn't happening and the solutions are seemingly easy to incorporate.

To jart and those in admin...if this forum is getting narrower and narrower and now there's no sign-up for new users to join us....it begs the question...what the f_ck is the point of being here??

I'm just sayin'.

[-] 5 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 6 years ago

This Forum is too heavily monitored for anybody to talk about specifics in the area of what they are actually doing.A credible source has told me that some very important people read the posts here-and I don't mean they are reading prepared summaries-they are coming here and reading the actual posts.I think there are also clueless people who need help and can't find it in the Right Wing Ding.Don't forget that the current situation is dynamic and could turn on a dime.

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3874) 6 years ago

I like ya Harry, I really do. I read most of your posts with interest and agreement...but...Important people? Credible source?

One would have to ask...what good are they, really, if they can't even influence one person who owns an anarchy website to re-open the sign-up page?

Sorry, but I can only guess the reason they won't reveal themselves is that they are impotent to do anything of any true change, or, they are lining themselves up to be the new oligarchs in charge. Eventually they'll be the new tyrants.

Or, maybe I'm just tired of watching humanity suffer as the 'good guys' come up with one delay after the other while their brothers and sisters die at the hands of beasts, and humanity spirals into abject despair.

Personally, I feel that real change will only come from, and IS happening in the loving care of the people. Ordinary everyday people who are changing things as we speak outside of the horrible self-serving establishment now in place like the Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, World Bank, United Nations, etc..... with worker-owned cooperatives, a new war crimes tribunal (Kuala Lumpur), Direct Democracy groups (Demoex), etc.

No-one has the best interests and will take care of humanity better than everyday people.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 6 years ago

Well-LOL-how important is important? I am informed that one person who actually reads our humble posts is Tyler Durden,who is a possible Friendly over at Zerohedge.Lots of influential Friendlies in the Wall Street Jungle are on that site frequently.While many people don't agree with #OWS on alot of things,they all know something gotta be done.S17 Part 3 is pretty much going to be about making concrete plans for bootstrap organizing.Such resources as I have are going to be thrown into the mix.The ex-middle class is ready but not organized.The Right Wing Ding working class is in disarray and ready for outreach.The African Americans and Undocumenteds are organizing and will soon be ready to Rock Steady.We need to coordinate&operate.Anybody who will look upon our efforts favorably,and say so is a help.You are a great person-keep on doing good things and hope for the best.Vincit Qui Patitur.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

This Forum is too heavily monitored for anybody to talk about specifics in the area of what they are actually doing.

[ edit ] Big Brother - IS - everywhere. Personally I see no problem in talking specifics. Specifics like Move To Amend or any other possible public direct actions.

Perhaps if Big Brother listens long enough - just perhaps - it's insanity may begin to get pierced. ( dreaming I know - but - anything is possible no matter how improbable ) edit-> Besides - doesn't it seem that those who would use this information to thwart public progress - seem to step on their own dicks? more often it seems as time goes bye.

[-] 5 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 6 years ago

There is some truly hi-larious disinfo being put out there by #OWS activists and other activists these days.Digital straw dogs can't be told from real ones unless somebody actually wastes their time trying to follow up.The people doing the following are so out of touch w/reality,much of the time they would have no clue what is what.LOL!

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

It is hilarious - well kinda - except when some think that these faux-OWS people are actually real. I mean how in the hell could they be against removing ALEC members from office and keeping the other members from gaining office. ( just one recent example )

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 6 years ago

Well-they don't believe voting makes a difference.The People need to show a mean streak to the pols-right now the pols think they can cruise over a Bridge Too Far and nothing will happen.The next crisis in the economy is likely to make Dad get up out of his chair.And we all know Dad will be in a blind rage if he has to get up out of his chair after sweating his balls off at work to put food on the table.And rightfully so!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Don't MAKE Me get out of this chair - hahahahahahaaaaahaha

See the thing is - if anyone who is sane is still voting? The trend will continue = dwindling victories for those with Rs behind their names.

Not because I am anti republican.

But because they are doing their damnedest to alienate the majority of the people that they are supposed to be representing. ALEC Red State Membership? ( very notable in Red states - but also becoming more and more apparent in their actions in blue states )

Those politicians who call themselves republican - seem to be doing their best to kill the republican party - which would then leave us saddled with the Democrats - which if they then do not tow the line - WILL also start committing political suicide in a major way = no more excuses for failing the public.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 6 years ago

We have had 2 stolen elections-the people who stole them pulled a limited hang out to try to discourage voters.I believe the election chicanery has had mixed results at federal and state levels.People are really angry about Obama's flip-flop.A populist wave will turn things around,IMHO.#OWS has a part to play in a populist candidacy-indirectly for sure,but just the fact that #OWS has not endorsed political candidates to date doesn't mean it has no clout,as people constantly say.The hearts and minds of the American People are the prize,and #OWS has shown the ability to capture that prize.The reluctance of #OWS to produce its best cards is a good strategy.The TP threw down too quick and got co-opted within months.Nobody believes good ideas are going to come from there.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

I believe that Obama - SHOULD be impeached - but not for ramming through the ACA - NOPE - But FOR War Crimes. What those in office that are calling themselves republican are doing in their attempt at impeachment is ludicrous. But war crimes is a thing you will see neither the Dems or Reps pursue - because many of them would get caught up in the mess for their own actions as well as in-actions.

This type of fact may well be dawning as a growing public realization and could well help fuel Bernie's run for presidency.

Anyway one wants to look at it. Without the involvement of the public in government - tyranny will grow.

[-] 0 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 6 years ago

Bush and his pals deserved impeachment way more.Obama deserves to be impeached for not doing anything to apprehend those villains.I can't believe anyone would say Obama is a Worse POTUS than Bush was.The Lie To War in Iraq is the worst war crime of the Modern Era.I nominate Cindy Sheehan and Medea Benjamin for POTUS & VPOTUS.Enough already with the wrinkly Rich Old White Guys.They have created the worst clusterfuck in the history of the world.Time to strip them of their wealth and power.Poor Bernie.I wonder if he really will run.His backing of Israeli Lawn Mowing is distasteful to me.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Bush and his pals deserved impeachment way more.

Are they also guilty of war crimes? YOU BET

But Obama does not get a free walk - due to the escalating drone war as well as for the continued use of depleted uranium armaments as well as for the use of white phosphorus.

As I have stated before and will state again - a wrong is a wrong is a wrong - no matter who commits those wrongs. ( also can be stated as = A Crime Is A CRIME is a Crime )

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 6 years ago

They are Heartless Bastards who weaken the arguments against the Death Penalty even more than people like John W.Gacy and T.Bundy.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Must be a few of em looking in ( or their lackeys anyway ) - one of them at least doesn't seem happy with my last comment =

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 minutes ago

The poster children for the death penalty one would think. The bankster's killed plenty leading up to - during and following their economic meltdown. As have Executive Officers and operating staff of mega corp(se)oRATions in their foreign operations as well as in domestic operations - fossil fuel not alone among them either.

And yet they remain untouched.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle edit delete permalink

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

The poster children for the death penalty one would think. The bankster's killed plenty leading up to - during and following their economic meltdown. As have Executive Officers and operating staff of mega corp(se)oRATions in their foreign operations as well as in domestic operations - fossil fuel not alone among them either.

And yet they remain untouched.

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[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 6 years ago

I don't understand

why people need to do things in secret

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4GWN6h2rlI

Oingo Boingo "On the Outside"

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 6 years ago

IMHO,not advertising things people are doing or contemplating doing is not the same as secrecy.

[-] 3 points by Imjustsayin (87) 6 years ago

You sound reasonable. This forums has lots of great posts but not much activity, and perhaps does not provide a good reason to come here.

Interocc and many other organizations (influenced by OWS, or not) are active and exciting. This forum seems, on the surface (many important issues/posts) to be smart and current. A little deeper and I see the common hate filled forum attacks I see most everywhere.

I can't say what your admins should do, but you seem reasonable and I do support opening up the sign up

Good luck

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 6 years ago

Flush Rush!

http://www.emilyslist.org/page/s/20140919_email_RushPetition?&source=WOENEU23_Rush_v1s3&ms=WOENEU23

We must stand against hate speech (on this forum) & in the Media.

Peace, & Solidarity with positive action.

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 6 years ago

Better than the right wing extremist wackos inciting fear & hate on American airwaves/cable.

Enjoy, & join the flushRush campaign

[-] 2 points by JohnMarsden (47) 8 years ago

I am 100% shocked and amazed and totally did not expect that list to not have one serious left leaning person on it. Whowouldhavethunkit?

[-] 1 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I mentioned Bloomberg. I'm pretty sure he is a democrat. He is among the worst. A total pig. The same goes for nearly every well known public figure. I don't trust any of them. But this page was written to call out those attacking us on the air. Those public figures so far, have been almost exclusively conservative. I tried to come up with some more left leaning pigs to name. But Bloomberg was it. If you know of any left leaning public figures who have been trying to intimidate or insult OWS, name them. I don't play favorites. I have none. But this page was written specifically to call out those public figures who have been trying to intimidate OWS.

Just for the record: Pelosi sucks. Reid sucks. Maher sucks. Maddow sucks. CNN sucks. NBC sucks. MSNBC sucks. THEY ALL SUCK!

[-] 1 points by JohnMarsden (47) 8 years ago

Good thanks for manning up. This movement can actually go somewhere as look as you don't make it out to be simply a left leaning movement.

[-] 2 points by peaceout10 (69) 8 years ago

They are hillbillies

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 6 years ago

They're all Climate deniers?

http://ecosalon.com/top-10-american-global-warming-deniers-292/

Among other things.

[-] 1 points by raines (699) 8 years ago

Propaganda comes from 0bama the dems/libs, nbcabccbcnsnbccnn, ny times, ap, reuters

[-] 0 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

And every other public figure and entity. You have to scrutinize every word just to get a general sense of truth.

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[-] 3 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Need to fit in? Think again. I'm a free thinker all the way. A die-hard non conformist. I just happen to agree with the core of OWS. Not on every issue but enough to relate.

That half-wit stereotypical BS you people spout just goes to show how little you understand. Entitlement my ass. Those college grads were lied to by at least two administrations. They chose a field of study based in part on those lies. Now, they are deep in debt and can't get a job in their chosen fields. Some have found work in other fields. Many haven't. In case you havn't noticed, unemployment is still a huge issue.

Entitlement my ass.

[-] 1 points by Ptfrank (8) 8 years ago

They get paid to keep Americans divided. As long as we are divided against each other,we are powerless to change anything while at the same time the Plutarch's can buy anything they want. In this democracy, a president is the only representative who was elected by all the people ( and we only have once every 4 years to do it) . . . as long as the Plutarchs and there toadies keep those elections to 49.1 vs. 50.9 percent we are powerless to make change.

What do you think the Plutarchs fear most? It's that we might wake up, pull our heads out of our asses and unite.

[-] 1 points by Spankysmojo (849) 8 years ago

The list is even longer. People who further their agenda at the cost of driving or country into the ground.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 6 years ago

FlushRush persists, Boycott the rest, let's.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/27/1324916/-Rush-Limbaugh-Plagued-With-Deserting-Radio-Stations-And-Now-Dead-Air?detail=email

Nice to see direct people power making progress.

[-] 0 points by UKfighback (49) 8 years ago

They have all received money from AIPAC

am i right?

[-] 1 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I had to look that up.

American Israel Public Affairs Committee

Don't know. Your guess is better than mine.

[-] 0 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

sounds like more OWS antisemitism

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

How?

[-] 1 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

the ad hominem based on the unsubstantiated fact they've gotten money from AIPAC Jews

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I don't know what UK was getting at. It may have been a joke.

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[-] -1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

I'm pretty sure the cops and the state did a much better job of scaring the shit out of the protesters than the people on radio.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

They are all blithering slobbering idiots.

How in the world that they ever got into the spotlight and then having got there stayed there - OHHHHH such stupidity embraced - too sick/sad/insane.

[-] -1 points by bre0001 (50) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

This thing was planned way before you think it was. It didn't just start 2 months ago with a simple protest at Zuccotti Park.

The occupywallst.com (and org) domain was registered on July 14, 2011. A couple of months before the supposed beginning of OWS in September.

Why is that? Because someone or some group planned this whole thing including the web site.

Very curious don't you think? And how quickly was this web site up? Bet it was up before you got to Zuccotti Park. Think you're being played?

Just another little known FACT that has nothing to do with this but just shows you how long ago some things are planned.

The domains - stopobama.com, noobama.com, presidentobama.com were all registered before Jul 15 2004 and are redirected to positive Obama links. They were registered by the same people but are hidden so we can't see who. I'm betting they're Democrats.

Obama wasn't even a senator in 2004, so how did they know? I betting it wasn't just a guess. Obama has been planned for a long time, people just like OWS.

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I've also noticed the registration date. I've wondered about the motives. I've also wondered about those Obama sites. And their motives. I can't guarantee pure nobility on the part of those who registered this site or those who organized OWS. In fact, I would prefer the movement to stand against greed and corruption in general. Not just within our screwed up government or on Wall Street. I've only exchanged a few words with one representative of this site. There wasn't any indication whatsoever of manipulation. Only a few words regarding the rules which are fair to supporters and critics.

Regardless, I'm nobody's puppet. I will use this site to post my own views within the general concept of economic injustice regardless of how they are perceived by organizers, supporters, or critics. I will follow the rules as posted but I'm nobody's puppet. Never will be. No way in hell.

[-] -1 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

LOL...wow thats funny ,swarm of hornets..lol..... Bumble Bee,I mean hornet,you sound like someone who maybe did not do to well socially in school or growing up,some little self esteem issues,inferiority complex,need to fit in somewhere, where they will except a social misfit,feeding a perverted sense of ego and pride cultivating a HUGE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT...wow....wow...have you ever worked a REAL job or are you one of these who been in college for the past 20 years feeding off govt financial aid and student loans that do not want to pay it back now

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Need to fit in? Think again. I'm a free thinker all the way. A die-hard non conformist. I just happen to agree with the core of OWS. Not on every issue but enough to relate. That half-wit stereotypical BS you people spout just goes to show how little you understand. Entitlement my ass. Those college grads were lied to by at least two administrations. They chose a field of study based in part on those lies. Now, they are deep in debt and can't get a job in their chosen fields. Some have found work in other fields. Many haven't. In case you havn't noticed, unemployment is still a huge issue. Entitlement my ass.

[-] -1 points by Karl99 (63) 8 years ago

what do they have in common?? Hmm. They are smart, they have a vision for America, they don't support OWS idiots, and they have jobs!

[-] 1 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

They all have absolute tunnel vision. If they were so smart, they would have seen this coming at least by '05'. That's when I went on record predicting the current socio-economic crisis. They were all spouting the same old 'capitalism is great' 'capitalism can't fail' crap.

I'm no expert. But I was right. They were wrong. Even now, they can't see past the edge of their partisan puppet noses.

[-] -1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 8 years ago

Question

Who is number two on the list of giving the most money to charity?

Answer Michael Bloomberg

http://tinyurl.com/6syxdqm

Among the wide array of organizations he has supported: Alliance for Young Artists & Writers, in New York; the Center for Public Integrity, in Washington; El Museo del Barrio, in New York; Food Bank for New York City; Jewish Association for Services for the Aged, in New York; the Kennedy Krieger Institute, in Baltimore; Loaves and Fishes, in Charlotte, N.C.; Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, in New York; the Migration Policy Institute, in Washington; Metropolitan Opera Association, in New York; Natural Resources Defense Council, in New York; Points of Light Foundation, in Atlanta; Sarah Lawrence College, in Bronxville, N.Y.; Spina Bifida Association of America, in Washington; West Harlem Group Assistance, in New York; the Wounded Warrior Project’s Jacksonville, Fla., chapter; and numerous other groups in New York and elsewhere.

[-] 3 points by kayak69 (57) from West Sand Lake, NY 8 years ago

Wow. I look up to him - as he holds me down with his foot on my throat.

[-] 3 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Question

Who is the 23rd richest man in the world?

Answer Michael Bloomberg.

That means that Michael Bloomberg has personally concentrated more wealth than all but 22 out of 7,000,000,000 people worldwide. Therefore, we would have been better off if he had never been born.

All public figures give to charity. Every single one. So have all the banks, all the energy companies, all the hedge fund managers, and most of the white collar criminals serving time as we speak.

There is an equation to consider. When that equation becomes too lopsided, there goes the economy.

Bloomberg is not part of the solution. He is part of the problem.

Would you like some statistics?

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 8 years ago

There will always be a 23rd richest person in the world.

[-] 3 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Yes. But the scale has become so incredibly obscene that the low end is under water. It can't work this way.

[-] 2 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

Is this supposed to buy him special dispensation for his anti-democratic anti-1st amendment, pro-war acts (he used the grass in Central Park to deny anti Iraq War protesters their due proof of mass support, "caring" more about the grass than American soldiers' and Iraqi lives)? He's an elitist who blames foolish house buyers for the world economic collapse that his Wall St. buddies, whose crimes he denies are crimes, caused.

Let him support the rule of law first, then I'll pay attention to his good deeds. The charity of the massively wealthy is a scam - giving with their left hand, while stealing with the right.

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 8 years ago

What is the grass in CP thing? I did not hear about that.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 8 years ago

During the buildup to (or early in?) the Iraq war - Park Lawn's Great for Anti-war Rally, by Juan Gonzalez (http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0709-11.htm).

Unfortunately, organizer Leslie Cagan of United for Peace and Justice (government controlled false front, imo) had a long history of controlling attendees and complying in all ways with the authorities. At a later demo, she couldn't even take Central Park with 300,000 people.

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 8 years ago

Thanks for the information.

I agree 100% that what they did was wrong. The park is the people's land. I was at a Simon and Garfunkle concert in the park with about 200,000 people and the city did not worry about the grass then.

This is another great article about the controversy and the lawsuit. http://www.justiceonline.org/our-work/the-fight-for-the-great-lawn.html

[-] -1 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

LOL. Need a tissue? Now you are screaming about 12 people who are obvious propagandists that are supposedly destroying out country? Whats nice about America is they are free to say whatever they like. I don't listen to any of them, but they have the right to speak, and they aren't even part of the problem. If you think so, you are weak and uninformed.

[-] 3 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Looks like I hit a nerve. Sure they have a right to speak. And I have a right to call them out for their lame attacks.

[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

You surely do, but to blame them for any of the countries ills is just lame and weakens any other argument you may have.

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

If you really feel that way then the same goes for every liberal public figure and every protestor so long as they obey the law right?

[-] -1 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

Yep. I never said people didn't have the right to protest and say whatever they want. That's free speech. Where i draw the line is when they infringe on the rights of others. Like shutting down a port so people can't get to work to feed their families. Civil disobedience is not free speech.

[-] 3 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I agree there. Protest only. No human blockades.

[-] 3 points by communistbob (0) 8 years ago

The capitalist greed that runs our nation's ports are EXPLOITING the workers and putting them on the brink of starvation. We need communism more than ever or our poor children will continue to starve and die.

[-] -1 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

You are so misguided. Every country that operates under communism has much higher rates of poverty, crime, corruption, and lower healthcare standards than we do. And a LOT less freedom. Communism isn't utopia, so stop thinking that it is.

[-] 3 points by communistbob (0) 8 years ago

Maybe you should ask the children in Cuba and North Korea who receive FREE healthcare which country they would rather live in. A communist revolution is needed now more than ever.

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

Bob you are right(sarcasm) and that is why this country is filled with those people trying to flee those communist countrys that are soooooo good to and for them.

[-] -1 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

They would all rather live in America if they had the chance to know what was beyond the borders. Are you crazy? North Korea is hell on earth. Cuba wouldn't be any better if it wasn't a tropical island.

[-] -1 points by Perspective (-243) 8 years ago

With a insults and a implied threats of violence. You people just don't get it do you?

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I'm flat out against violence 99.9 percent of the time. This is no exception.

Legal protest only. No excuse for violence.

Here is a list of the top ten companies that not only paid little or no taxes but got huge corporate welfare from we the people.

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. Note: This claim was made by Forbes.com in April of '10'. Shortly after, they published a followup article which included a rebuttal by Exxon Mobil. Forbes.com did acknowledge a mistake based on incorrect line items filed by Exxon Mobil. http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2010/04/07/exxon-says-it-does-pay-u-s-income-taxes

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

Still no excuse for violence.

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

All that I agree with . The thing you are leaving out is. The main reason these companys are making such huge profits are they are fed and fueld by good old fashion american dreams(greed),wants ,desires to feed our self of the "flesh" so to speak not the soul or our NEEDS to survive. Guess what that is also the foundation that built this country to its ONCE industrila and econimical greatness. WE the people lost touch with that,lost the need and necessities and lived on our wants and desires to satisfy our ego and self worth and survival.Just like those we protest against. I despise these big shots getting more than me and you but guess what thats resentements based on my ego and pride. They work for it they get it. Morally its not right but thats for them to deal with not me. Legally thast for the govt.

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I'm fine with the old fashioned American dream. House, car, job, family. But I've had it up to my eyeballs with this 'get rich' crap. It's gone way too far.

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

Thats the problem...like I said its US the students visions of grandeur of being millionaires and not just a productive helpful member of scoiety or do something productive they love and have a passion for. The child like "grownups",like I did, that worked 50-60 hour a week to amass money and toys to feed my self,building up credit and debt in the process.There is nobody to blame but us/me not them for aloowing me to pervert my self will ,ego and pride.

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

The last line is where we still disagree.

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

Question modest...the speed limit gets rasied in your state,city whatever to 75...you drive 75 as you are allowed by law and now like and enjoy. Are you going to say ehhh you know I like it I enjoy it the law lets me but I want it stopped? No human nature is going to say why change what I enjoy or like,now if I am a morally responsible person I will not take advantage of itt/he law. Well I did not say they are morally right but legally they are and again using our own greed to feed their "machines"

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

If evidence were presented to me indicating that the speed limit never should have been raised, I would agree to reduce it regardless of my own confidence or pleasure driving it.

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

theres the moral side...and thats one thing they(coporate fatcats) and ALOT of americans lack ...cause when working within greed pride ego self fufillment morality usually does not fit in....where are you from Modest? So you know I am in Brooklyn NY

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Earth. And damn proud of it. Greatest planet in the universe. In fact, I think all the others suck.

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

lol...lets worry about that first and foremost our planet..lol..thats the one in real dire straits and need of change and help

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

Modest...lets say this..than agree to disagree on it? lol

[-] -1 points by Perspective (-243) 8 years ago

But your OP implied it. Think before you type.

"You might want to consider altering the reckless behavior that got us all stirred up to begin with.

In the meantime, you might want to prepare yourself a soothing oatmeal bath.

You are going to need it."

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

If you think a vague analogy involving hornets and oatmeal implies a call for violence, you're insane.

Tell me. What do you think about Sarah Palin?

That's right. Think before you type.

[-] -1 points by Perspective (-243) 8 years ago

Your analogy said basically quit messing with us or we'll hurt you. Don't try to point out others flaws to cover your own.

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Bullshit. I deliberately chose a comical analogy involving hornets and oatmeal. I could have just as easily chose one involving brass knuckles and hospitals. Firebombs and firetrucks. Bullets and coffins.

I deliberately chose a comical analogy involving hornets and oatmeal. That's not a call for violence. Unless you expect OWS supporters to throw hornet nests through windows.

If that happens, I will take full responsibility.

You didn't answer the question.

What do you think of Sarah Palin?

[-] -1 points by Perspective (-243) 8 years ago

Lol whatever makes you feel better.

[-] 2 points by tonybaldwin (235) from New Haven, CT 8 years ago

Your point regarding freedom of speech is quite valid. Kudoz.

However, dismissing these propagandists from their share of responsibility in the problem is careless. Sure, these people, alone, didn't cause the problem, but their manipulation of the American public, with lies, smoke and mirrors, has certainly gone a long way to help allow those who did cause the problem do to so not only with impunity, but, in many ways, with the blessing of large swaths of the American public. That IS relevant.

[-] -1 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

Do you really think that anyone who listens to a propagandist from either side of the political spectrum didn't already have a set ideology to agree with them in the first place? These people are not converting anyone. The left is just as bad as the right with their propaganda, but they really don't change anything. It is a false statement to blame them for preaching to the choir.

[-] 1 points by tonybaldwin (235) from New Haven, CT 8 years ago

You have a point, really. There is that. At the same time, they are adding fuel to the fire.

[-] -1 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

Realistically if you took all of the right wing radicals off the air, their audience is probably not more than 10 million people total. Not very many in a country of 310 million. And of those 10 million how many are rabid fanatics? 75%? Big deal. They aren't changing anything. Washington is the problem.

[-] 2 points by tonybaldwin (235) from New Haven, CT 8 years ago

True. Washington (and Wall St) are the problem. You have convinced me, Jimbo.

These right wing pundits are like house flies buzzing in our ear. An annoyance, but mostly harmless.

[-] 2 points by peaceout10 (69) 8 years ago

I totally disagree. People are lemmings to public opinion. The right wingers, for the most part, are a media generation that does their homework in front of a TV or on the car radio. They not only listen, the act in conjunction with these radio wackos...Sean Hannity draws tens of thousands to the Fox sponsored Freedom festivals...Rush has the largest radio audience in the country. Fox news has more cable listeners than MSNBC, CNBC and CNN combined. The right is too lazy to form their own opinions, so they listen and get all of their information and education from these non-college educated talk show hosts. That's right...Rush never went to college and Sean Hannity was a junior college drop-out. But to think they aren't helping form the opinions of many working class Republicans is plain wrong.,

[-] -1 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

Very funny. You say people are lemmings, and then launch out into a very leftist partisan rant. You are a lemming. The right wingers are no more propagandist than leftists and you just proved that point. 75% of voters vote the party line no matter what, and rarely know anything about the candidates or their issues. That is not a Fox News or MSNBC problem, that is the people's problem for being so ignorant. Ignorance is what lead us to this mess by continually supporting the two parties. Stop being a lemming.

[-] -2 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

Hornets? maybe drunk lazy listless hornets, too high to get anything done, too stupid to know what to do, and too conditioned by participation trophies and self esteem based on nothing to exist in the real world. So you demand and throw temper tantrums from your high chairs and bang your sippy cups on the tray when you need more juice, since you are functionally unable to do ANYTHING that requires effort, for yourself.

Apparently YOU think WE are afraid of YOU....sorry, it ain't happening..you're like a cockroach under our shoe, if you get too far out of hand we'll crush you...without a thought.

You are a group of losers seeking social validation from one another, because civil, productive, society has deemed you unworthy...go back to your loser friends and puff your sissy little pigeon chest and make your sad little snarky remarks, fool...we're not impressed...

[-] 3 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

As expected. More psychological BS. The same old ineffective psychological crap.

Explain this: If we're so insignificant, then why would these people waste so much valuable air time attacking us? Why not just ignore us?

Crush away. Give it your best shot.

First, explain this:

"The income gap between the rich and the rest of the US population has become so wide and is growing so fast that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself." Allen Greenspan testifying before congress. You're gonna love the date. Give up yet?

SPRING OF '05'!

Now tell me it's all coincidence bitch!

Go ahead say it. I have a truckload of statistics for you. Go ahead. Make my day.

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

Please statistics....averages...percentages...remeber they are NOT 100% accurate ..I can change ANYONE one of those "statistics" right now...I was not questioned or my family,,,add me into the equation one way or another and the statistic,average,percentage just changed...sorry.if they whoever takes this "poll" or data does not include the entire country than how accurate can it be? All you need is to leave aout 2 or 3 people or pertinent information and BOOM there goes your statistic.

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

That is the most horseshit defiant head in the sand spin around statistical data I've ever read. Of course, no study is perfect. But your claim that every single individual must be counted in order to establish anything is a load of holy albino lobster crap.

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

didnt say everyone...but the sad truth is ANY statistic is only an estimate not an exact,it can be minipulated in any way,it can be done intentionally and unintentionally...so stats and stuff yu shold only tke with a grain of salt unless ALL data is compiled for it. And if that means everyone than yes than it can be used as a solid accurate more faliable argument.

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I take everything with a grain of salt. Including CBO reports which indicate middle class growth even after inflation.

What they fail to mention is that core inflation doesn't even include food, energy, or home sales.

I take everything with a grain of salt. But that doesn't mean you disregard any one report simply for lack of having ALL OF THEM on your desk all at once.

[-] -2 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

you're gonna use a Fed chairman as your source of authority...the same fed chairman who's unreasonably low interest rates are partially responsible for our current economic troubles.....are you that big a fool? seriously?

and, I doubt you have anything..but, feel free, fire away..

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I'm not a fan of Greenspan. Never have been. But I do give him credit for his moment of clarity.

Look at this graph: http://www.connectthedotsusa.com/images/FavSlides/JobsWages/WeGrewApart.jpg

Then read this:

The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.

According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans (actually, more like 98%), saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively.

The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.

The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.

Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. In 1928, the rich were already way ahead. Still, they were given huge tax breaks. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated 44 percent of all United States wealth. The upper, middle, and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the lower majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed.

 Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, some US wealth was gradually transferred back down to the majority. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. By 1976, the richest 1 percent held  less than 20 percent. The lower majority held the rest. This was the recovery. A partial redistribution of wealth.

  Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own 40 percent of all US wealth. The upper, middle, and lower classes are sharing the rest. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.

The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible.

For the good of society, stop giving so much of your money to rich people. Stop concentrating the wealth. This may be our last chance to prevent the worst economic depression in world history. No redistribution. No recovery.

Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

Is there anything that YOU can come up with or is it always cut,copy,paste??? 26,000 is FINE in most parts of the country. Those who live ABOVE their means and NEEDS are the ones who cant afford to live on that...in reality ones CHASING the AMERICAN DREAM(greed). Guess what i just took a survey compiled data,,,the avg,income in nyc is 44,000.00 yrly so lets now change that add one more person into the mix that is unemployed,most likely cause he does not WANT the wages being offered to him not that there are no jobs,now add his income (0) just dropped the avg down to 33,000.. WAIT I just added someone who makes a nice living( i used 115K that was my last job in 2008) the average just went up to 61,000 yrly...so I will stick with those statistics....anyone else?...Lets all play the stat game...be careful of the results of statisctics and averages...they are based on TO MANY VARIATIONS

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

$26,000 is more than enough for an individual. But we're not talking about a few individuals. We are talking about 1/2 of all workers.

Let's cut to the chase: Straight answer:

Are you willing to acknowledge a link between the distribution of wealth and economic stability or not?

[-] 0 points by MitchK (305) 8 years ago

To an extent...I believe in capitalism ,someone works for theirs they should have the right to keep it under any circumstances. Wealth is determined by not income but how much a person holds in assets. That is theirs and should not be touched..wether by hook or crook they earned it. I may not likeit may not like how but if they did it legally its theirs and if it was illegal and did not get caught for whatever reason its still theirs(kennedys/rockafellers) Now if you mean NOT GIVING SPECIAL PRIVELAGES to them such as certai tax break and loopholes than YES. If someone earns it than its theirs again,but,they should not get special privelages in earning it from the govt. The laws governing these things should be changed not on how much someone can make/earn,etc.Do I think there is an excess in most coporations that they are using the system YES and it should be stopped or changed but to take ti away from them the right to use that system or peoples greed,no.

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Well, we can agree that it never would have come to this or at least not so soon if it weren't for so many political favors and paybacks. But I still believe that no recovery can take place without policies and behavior to partially reverse and prevent a heavy concentration of wealth.

[-] -2 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

HAHAHAHAHA!!! yeah, I've seen all that before, but it doesn't take into account the world market, and the effects of the revitalized infrastructure in countries decimated by WW2 and their reemergence into world markets...removing us from the position of "the only game in town"

your point is myopic and foolish...and poorly thought out

feel free to remain a fool though, you seem comfortable there....and it doesn't require much effort or research

[-] 1 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

You're still dancing your way around the point. We had stable growth for over 30 years after the Great Depression. We also had a simultaneous partial redistribution of wealth. Things were fine until the oil crisis. That was not caused by revitalized infrastructure. It was caused by greed. Even so, we were still ok.

Since then we have had top heavy growth and now, a concentration of wealth near record high in America. Record high on a global scale.

If you are going to blame the current economic crisis on the very concept of a global economy, you may as well blame gravity for every plane crash.

What would you suggest? Bombing the rest of the world so we have no one but ourselves to compete with?

Get real already.

[-] -1 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

you're really deficient in your history, my friend...there were terrible recessions in the early and late 50's, and JFK had to lower taxes to stimulate growth. there was no "stable" growth for 30 years...it was fit's and starts, like it always is...and due to the pressures I listed above our economy changed, the rise of computerization and tech reduced the amount of hands-on human jobs necessary for manufacturing, and intellectual products of the tech age funnel profits to a smaller number of individuals, as their creation and development require a smaller number of individuals...

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I'm aware of the recessions. But they were tame compared to this. I refer to the 30 year period as stable the same way conservatives refer to the years of '82' to '07' as stable. I believe the phrase "25 years of almost uninterrupted growth" has been thrown out a few times. In fact, the recession of '00' was a joke compared to this. A pothole. Nothing more.

If your radar is so sensitive with regard to those short and shallow recessions within a 30 year period of near uniform growth across quintiles, then why are you so unwilling to acknowledge the profound concentration of income and wealth within the last 35 years?

First, you begin by bashing OWS protestors and refusing to acknowledge a single valid point. Then, you attribute my evidence of concentration in America to a period of revitalization which took place overseas 60 years ago, still playing down any legitimate claim of economic injustice in America. Then, you refer to the recessions of a much more stable era, one in which the growth across quintiles was near uniform for 30 years as 'terrible'.

Finally, you refer to computerization, reduced demand for labor, and funneled profits. Which it seems we can agree on.

So what gives? Are you turning your radar up and down to support your claims that OWS supporters are a bunch of cry babies with nothing to complain about or are you willing to admit a valid point or two?

[-] -1 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

because it's not a limited pie...the pie expands...everyone benefitted from the 83-07 growth period, yes the higher income sectors benefitted more, for two reasons: they had more, and possessed the skills to manage their funds, and...they didn't give away large percentages of their income in the rise of consumer credit based purchases....there has never been a 30 year cycle that was "terrible" in this country...and there are many who don't participate in recessions, wealth is created in every economic reality in this country...that is the equal opportunity...it's a shame more don't participate...

This recession was caused, and prolonged, by the same causes that the Great Depression was worsened and prolonged by FDR...Bad policy decisions that contracted the system because of their antibusiness bias.....it was WW2 that ended the GD, not anything done by FDR

If it wasn't for industrialists like Ford, Kaiser, and others we couldn't have supplied the war effort..

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

I never said the pie was finite. But there is a relative limit at any given time. Everyone benefited from '83' to '07'? No way. Bankruptcy, foreclosure, consumer debt, and national debt, were all way up by '06'. Charges for health care and energy were skyrocketing. Charges for finance, food, and higher education were up even after you account for inflation. Profits and paychecks for the rich were way up. Meanwhile, the middle and lower classes lost actual buying power. I won't make any excuses for the irresponsible consumer spending habits of most Americans.

You've gone on record with your account of the Great Depression. I've gone on record with mine.

Antibusiness bias my ass. Growth was up and unemployment was down under FDR. Every year but one as I recall.

Of course the recovery was slow. The underlying cause was profound. There is only one place in the universe where an economy can recover from a severe crisis quickly.

That place is fantasyland.

[-] -2 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

and never forget....we outnumber you...

The only thing that protects you is the civil society...break that down and you're canon fodder and a footnote in a history book

WE protect you from the wolves...

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Bullshit.

[-] -2 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

you fools who think you're revolutionaries think you'll survive in an anarchical condition? You're wannabes who can't even manage to make it in the easiest, most level playing field in the history of mankind...you'll be somebodies bitch, or dead....

and you'll go down like the weak yellow little pussies you are, whining and begging, with no sense of valor...

[-] 2 points by tonybaldwin (235) from New Haven, CT 8 years ago

weak yellow little pussies you are, whining and begging, with no sense of valor...

Personally, I would consider leaving the comfort of one's home and camping in the cold and placing one's liberty and personal safety at risk to protest for the well-being of one's fellow Americans to be rather valiant. I'm not camping out. I have the utmost respect for those that are. I thank them for their valor, fortitude, and sacrifice for the welfare of our nation. They are my heros.

[-] 2 points by tonybaldwin (235) from New Haven, CT 8 years ago

the easiest, most level playing field in the history of mankind

If you really believe that, you've drank the kool-aid. There are definitely places where the playing field is more level, where opportunity is more egalitarian, and where the people don't directly suffer the economic violence of our corporate fascist oligarchy. You've been indoctrinated to believe that American democracy, football, and apple pie have made us the most free and egalitarian society ever, and it just isn't true. If it were, poverty and unemployment wouldn't be growing at alarming rates here, while in democratic socialist nations in Europe (Norway, Finland, Sweden, etc.), the standard of living is higher, everyone gets an education and health care, the national debt is lower, etc.

[-] -1 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

you're really comparing Norway, Finland, Sweden to the US? nice try.....you might be able to compare them to Rhode Island and maintain credibility...but to the entire country? It's Apples and Oranges..how about the central European Dem/socialist nations falling like dominies under their unsustainable systems....

[-] 2 points by tonybaldwin (235) from New Haven, CT 8 years ago

I understand your point, but, Norway, Finland and Sweden are entire countries, just small ones. This is the argument the right always comes up with. "Too small a scale to be a valid argument". Not necessarily so. Canada isn't doing to bad for itself, and they, too, operate with a mixture of democratic socialism and free markets, as well. Their people all get health care, fewer there are unemployed, and their national debt is far smaller than ours. (It probably helps that they are not spending $trillions$ bombing the shite out of people who have done them no harm, as we do). Sure, there are definitely examples, as well, where socialism has failed miserably. That can't be denied. That's not really the point. I just brought up a few examples of where the playing fields is more level. It just so happens that those places are democratic socialists., which has, in those cases, worked, and continues to work, now, and apparently better then our crony capitalism.
Mind you, I'm not advocating socialism here, because that's not what OWS is about (it's about getting corporate money out of our government). I was just making the point that there are definitely places where the playing field is more level, contrary to your assertion that we have the easiest, most level playing field in the history of mankind .

We like to pretend that we have the most egalitarian society ever here, but it's simply not true. The deck has always been stacked in someone's favor, whether at the expense of slaves, women, minorities, etc. Someone has always paid the price for the wealth that others accumulate.

[-] -1 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

how many from those countries went from zero to fiorbes 400? there are thousands in this country...you don't want equal opportunity...you want equal outcome...that can only be created by force

[-] 2 points by tonybaldwin (235) from New Haven, CT 8 years ago

Well, now, talking of numbers, the comparison isn't fair, because, as you were quick to note earlier, they are a lot smaller. The nations I mention do, in fact, have greater upward mobility, currently, than we've had for at least the last 20 years.

[-] -1 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

for 50 years we've been subsidizing large numbers of people NOT to be upwardly mobile...

[-] 2 points by tonybaldwin (235) from New Haven, CT 8 years ago

This is true, sort of. For instance, when McD's pays their workers minimum wage, and they can't afford health care or rent or utilities without assistance, the American tax-payer must make up the difference. What we are doing, effectively, however, is subsidizing McD's labor costs (and, yes, enabling a system that keeps people from becoming upwardly mobile).

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

Anarchy my ass. More unfounded stereotypical crap.

Next.

[-] -1 points by Slammersworld (210) 8 years ago

we'll see the effect you idiots have on next years election....my forecast: NONE...

[-] 2 points by ModestCapitalist (2342) 8 years ago

How would you measure it?

[-] -1 points by Jimboiam (812) 8 years ago

Ive tried to explain that to them. People like me who are well armed, and want to protect my family are much more capable than they imagine. They would be very sorry to live anywhere near me if the shit hits the fan and we start having mass riots for food, because the system broke down.