Forum Post: What are your demands "Occupy Wall Street"? Does ANYBODY have ANY good ideas?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 23, 2011, 5:37 p.m. EST by WeHaveDemands
(186)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
In my opinion, the heart of the issue is campaign finance reform. We need to have all political campaigns funded by the taxpayers from a separate fund. An amount would be designated say: 50 million dollars or 25 or whatever is a reasonable amount to actually travel and give speeches, and provide security for the candidates etc. And that NO OTHER MONEY be used, and that any contribution from ANY private donor big or small be made unlawful. AND REMOVE SPECIAL INTEREST LOBBIES from Washington.
THEN we can begin to re-center American Democracy around the electoral process and the actual WILL of the people.
Right now, politicians tell their "constituents" what they want to hear and make all of the promises they need to make, and then, newly elected (or re-elected) arrive in Washington and are immediately cornered and overwhelmed by all of the special interests that actually funded their campaign and dictate policy, and these politicians no longer connect "doing the will of the people" with "being a successful politician." Campaign financing and the lobbyists who OWN Washington, and every politician on both sides of the so-called “aisle” in their back pockets: THIS is the straw that is stirring this corrupt drink right now. Our leaders no longer need to act in the interests of the people they serve. Moreover, it is actually political suicide for them to do so. THAT, I feel, is a good "starting point" for one of this beautiful and exhilarating movement's central demands.
REFORM CAMPAIGN FINANCE and ELIMINATE LOBBYISTS from Washington now...American politics has a cancer at its core...if we don't root it out at the source....it will destroy us...Period.
Along the same lines ... Bust up the Military Industrial Complex, don't allow military contractors and war profiteers to reap mad profit as the government hemorrhages taxpayer dollars. Endless war suppresses working classes at home and abroad. Abolish our reliance on private mercenary forces. Keep an eye on AFRICOM, African Central Command, established by Bush and furthered by Obama. Ominous developments on that front and I see the possibility for direct conflict with China as we are both scrambling to control Africa's resources. See W.E.B. Dubois "The African roots of the War" (WWI).
Tie up the Global resources into rebuilding the USA and that is the end of war with China. The World literally cannot sustain rebuilding the United States and building up the rest of the World. Our re-imagination of our economy will be the central focus of the Global resources, for sereral decades, once we begin the process of modernizing the United States, that is, if we want to finish mdernizing within the next several decades. [smile] You cannot replace alll the bridges in the USA and build Chinese Super Carriers or Chinese anything, needing steel.
We need to get the money out before ANY national politician will dare to oppose the military industrial complex. We must find a way to ensure that our elected officials feel confident that it is better for them to listen to us, better for them politically, than it would be for them to obey their corporate masters.
I agree with nichole, we need to put an end to further imperialism and revert to a military designed to protect our boarders rather than procure territory and police the world.
I'm going to say this one more time, in case you didn't hear me.....
1 - Repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and return the printing of money to the U.S. Treasury - we need sound, commodity-based money, not usurious debt-based FRNs. The corporate banksters who now control money printing are rogue criminals and they created this economic depression to suck our wealth from us and it all started with the Federal Reserve Act.
2 - Create a firewall between government and corporations, no corporate personhood, no private funding of any governmental activity.
Just these two things would make a hell of a difference. All of our other problems stem from here, including the military-industrial complex and their corporate fat cats who just can't wait to test their new drones on civilians.
If you follow the money back to its source, you find the real trouble makers. End the Fed and put the corporate banksters in jail.
Aye aye
spread it... :)
Most of the post I see on this forum are people discussing the symptoms of the problem. This is one of the only ones out there that is addressing the root cause. We need CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM first and foremost!!! It need to be THE main goal of the protests. Right now our system of legalized bribery through campaign donations and lobbying has made our "representatives" the lap dogs of the corporations and special interests. If OWS does not get focused on this and drive this message home to the American people, they do so at their own peril.
Campaign finance reform is cosmetic, we have to go after the root. Who are the ones who are behind the corrupting influence? It is the fat cat corporate banksters and their CEO buddies, right? And what entity was the source of the bailouts when the Wall Street bubble burst? FEDERAL RESERVE, my friend, top of the food chain. You are close but this is better, more concise, and covers your pet peeve:
1 - Repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and return the printing of money to the U.S. Treasury - we need sound, commodity-based money, not usurious debt-based FRNs. The corporate banksters who now control money printing are rogue criminals and they created this economic depression to suck our wealth from us and it all started with the Federal Reserve Act.
2 - Create a firewall between government and corporations, no corporate personhood, no private funding of any governmental activity.
Just these two things would make a hell of a difference. All of our other problems stem from here, including the military-industrial complex and their corporate fat cats who just can't wait to test their new drones on civilians.
If you follow the money back to its source, you find the real trouble makers. End the Fed and put the corporate banksters in jail.
spread it... start a new post.... keep it on the table.... copy my spiel if you want...
"They want change in the way our leaders make decisions, every decision that is going to effect the people should be made by the people, not just because someone has the "Elected power" to do so, being an "Elected official" should only entitle that you are able to speak for the people, it shouldn't entitle you to change what you want and say "Its cool bro, they elected me, they obviously think whatever i do is correct, now hurry up and make the price for a litre of water $10".
They want change in how wealth is distributed, no longer should 1% of our species control the majority of our spending power. Or even change the way wealth is looked at in general, at the moment it is something like this: "Everything has a cost, you get a wage from the company you make money for, and from your wage slip you can work out what combination of food, clothes, tech, land, homes, cars and/or anything beneficial to your life are available to you ". It is insane! It should be something benefiting the people who would rather improve the quality of life for everyone and every life form on your planet not just their own. "
right on....
1.) Campaign Finance
2.) Regulate/Eliminate Lobbyists
3.) Bust up the Fed
1 - Repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and return the printing of money to the U.S. Treasury - we need sound, commodity-based money, not usurious debt-based FRNs. The corporate banksters who now control money printing are rogue criminals and they created this economic depression to suck our wealth from us and it all started with the Federal Reserve Act.
2 - Create a firewall between government and corporations, no corporate personhood, no private funding of any governmental activity.
Just these two things would make a hell of a difference. All of our other problems stem from here, including the military-industrial complex and their corporate fat cats who just can't wait to test their new drones on civilians.
If you follow the money back to its source, you find the real trouble makers. End the Fed and put the corporate banksters in jail.
These are great ideas....hard to argue...especially the Fed....I just have a harder time envisioning the OWS movement creating a mandate to eliminate the penultimate machine of human enslavement, the greatest oppressor in human history....It just seems too big to wrap my head around. Can't we start with Campaign Finance/Regulation of Lobbyists and use THAT as a springboard?
Everyone else is talking about trimming branches. I think we need to pull this rotten system up by the roots! Why waste time on cosmetic changes? If we have the fortitude, if we are educated and focused, we can do this. There are many who would stand behind this removal of the Fed because it is simply the reversal of an illegally pushed through agenda, it would return us to Constitutional debt-free money, the way it was before the banksters took over. I can't imagine anyone not seeing the simple beauty of this one concise act!
From what I can tell humans have been "money changing" for thousands of years....but I would stand with any of these as a first demand:
1.) Radical Campaign Finance Reform 2.) Remove Donation Based Lobbying, Basically Remove the Money 3.) Break up the Fed deem it unconstitutional via amendment to the Constitution
spread it....
watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9IH-XKQpOI&feature=BFp&list=FLN7cf_w8wZbDe-9Q8BCrhuQ
The FED came into being with the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and it can be repealed.
preach it suzencr! I'm with ya!
But watch a bit of this if you don't belive me about the thousands of years thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
And I have watched the Money Masters and studied this for a long time. Problem is we mustn't get bogged down in fascinating peripherals, we must focus in on the one thing that will be a game changer forever. The Federal Reserve has stolen the power to print money from our constitutional gov't, has charged us interest for the privilege of using their debt creating FRNs, and then taxes us to pay off that interest. I never agreed to this and I'm certain no one else did either, unless you are one of the fat cats at the top who raking it in and laughing all the way. If we understand the real problem, we can laser in on it and stop the bleeding.
You are exactly correct. Here are some documentaries on finance, and politics, I think you would both enjoy, and find interesting. Your obviously a smart guy so you may have seen them, if so, let me know I have a few more that might interest you. Finance: Born Rich, Breaking the Bank, College Inc, I want your Money, Inside The meltdown, IOUSA, Maxed Out, Mind Over Money, Money Masters, Speaking Freely, Ten Trillion and Counting, The American Ruling Class, The Best Government Money Can Buy, The Big One, The Card Game, The Corporation, The Madoff Affair, The Warning, Trading on Thin Air,
Politics: After Innocence, An Inconvenient tax, An Unreasonable Man, Burzynski, Business of Being Born, Can Mr. Smith Get to Washington anymore, Casino Jack, Electile Dysfunction, Flow, Freedom Fries, Homo Toxicus, Ken Burns America the Congress, The American drug War, XXI Century,
Oh, I DO believe you my friend. And now, if we are very smart and very focused we can possibly bring it to an end.
spread it... :)
1) get the money out of politics. 2) Bring US House of Reps to have closer representation to the people than the current 720,000 persons per Rep.
Agree!
Amend the Constitution
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
spread it...
1) Rework the college system to teach PRACTICAL/USEFUL things. We're turning out dead-beats that have accumulated thousands of dollars in debt with the current system.
2) TAKE the rich's money by issuing a policy that would INCREASE middle class wages (middle class generally work for these rich folks anyway, make the rich folks pay more!), to as low as $10,000 a year. People would feel motivated to work!
3) Create jobs
End corporate person-hood. Support the Human Worth Amendment! Learn more at: http://occupywallst.org/forum/human-worth-amendment/
End corporate person-hood. Support the Human Worth Amendment! Learn more at: http://occupywallst.org/forum/human-worth-amendment/
Wolf-pac.com
A 28th amendment stating that corporations are not people and can not donate money to politicians.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/
capitalism reform,Glass-Steagall MUST be put back into law, End Corporate personhood & END THE FED. these are major keys, not footnotes
here you go, it's simple: http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/
Good Post. I agree. Now, how can we get this "organization" to make it their one and only demand?
The reason that it costs so much to run for office is because of all the advertising you must buy. The outrageous costs of all the ads we will see next year is what makes candidates rely on massive political donations. If we make political advertising on TV, radio and newspaper illegal then it does not cost millions of dollars to run for office, anyone can compete even if they aren't a millionaire, and politicians don't have to pledge their souls to corporations.
End the fed and the private central banks..
Give the power of supplying money to the elected people.
hear, hear...
“TOCSFAE” IS TOXIC TO THE BANKERS
From the beginning when our country was formed we face many challenges and many opposing views
Just like today however, the peoples voices have been silence by special interest groups as well as the over whelming power grab by the bankers. Your demands/petitions will never be heard or taken seriously unless lobbyist/corporate have bless it for greedy reasons or Co-Opt it.
It is time for a fair hearing!
Wouldn’t it be great if you can be heard, fairly and equally? Wouldn’t it be worth your time to know there is a petition list, worth signing rather then getting involved in so many other worthy causes? Can be a drain, especially knowing many of lists of issues will mostly not be look at or simply be voted downed.
It can also be time consuming.
This is were the 7’step plan an ever growing list known as the “TOCS FAE” doctrine helps just about every cause, the cause that helps almost all other causes should be supported. These step plans, solves many of the roots of all our problems we face.Whether you have protested at the gas pump or you are an Occupier and Tea Partier, for that matter any protest mover, make your protest have meaning, give it the teeth it needs beyond the gas pump and over the protest lines.
This petition will be a notification to congress of things yet to come and to properly prepare.
As of January 2012 we the people
We will not take the abuse anymore and neither should they walk around with there heads in the sand.
We will begin the process of phase one
Your petition will go to congress, informing them you support The “TOCS FAE” Doctrine and so should they, by making preparations for receiving and forwarding income Tax mail. Your petition will also go to the top corporations letting them know of our intentions and they too should support and act by sending their taxes directly to congress. They should also be informed if our demands are not met protests will be under way the likes they have never seen.
After this is achieved and we have broken the back of a few select Corporations we will move on to Step1 Taxes which may take months or up to a year
Step1) Send your TAXES to a trusted congressman or congresswoman which maybe hard to find in your state. Make a Petition with your neighbors. Phone, email, fax your congress your list and intentions. Prepare your taxes, made out to the I.R.S check and envelope, and a stamp. Fit it in inside of a bigger envelope, onto which you should write congress address, preferably your state congress.
Example
Washington, DC 203 Cannon House Office Building Washington, DC 20515 Phone Number: (202) 225-2831 Have congress unwrap the envelopes, state you want your taxes to be mailed to the I.R.S
If you are asking yourself, what will this achieve first it can be used as a bargain chip however, congress cannot spend it or over take the fed reserve and banks system over night, nonetheless this will indeed give teeth/meat, back to congress. You should include a sign return receipt so as to show proof you paid your taxes.
For the rest Click http://inkrumguardians.webs.com/
Occupy funny pix http://inkrumguardians.webs.com/apps/blog/
If you are interested in expressing this message to Occupy General Assembly you should present the "TOCFAE" Doctrine in David Ferola's name, and claim you are him, for solidarity purpose.
That includes woman and children
Here are the demands that have been listed in recent survey results.
Full survey and actions to meet these goals can be found here http://owssurvey.org
Corporate Lobbyists STOP Occupying DC!
Stop White genocide!
http://www.change.org/petitions/russian-president-please-help-put-an-end-to-white-genocide
20% of the country's wealth has been destroyed and not a single person has been convicted, much less indicted. REVIEW ALL COMMISSION AND INCOME DATA FOR 2000 to 2008 ON WALL STREET. RECAPTURE INCOME. Wall Street has iron control over the country’s economic policies and that both parties are wholly owned subsidiaries. ELIMINATE THIS. 24 million people cannot find a full time job, that 50 million cannot afford to see a doctor when they are sick, that 47 million need the government’s help to feed themselves. IMMEDIATE FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE REPAIR JOBS PROGRAM. HEALTH CARE, NOT HEALTH INSURANCE, FOR ALL. 15 million families owe more on their home than it is worth. ELIMINATE - CANCEL ALL PREDATORY LOANS. WRITE NEW NONPREDATORY LOANS. MOVE MONEY FROM BANKS TO CREDIT UNIONS.
Remember demands imply negotiation. Demanding change from those who have no place in the new order is not productive. We don't demand anything of a tumor because we are not negotiating with it. We cut it out plain and simple. So keep it up and remember you can change things radically it has been done before and the time is ripe for it to happen again.
This David Icke character is fantastic...he's mostly railing against the Fed, wisely, but anyone excited about this thread should watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV9A2IGShuk&feature=youtu.be
how about the loan modification process for homes people are homeless and some children are loosing there way because of there instabilitys there is no home base life so yeah when are they going to stop and ask for sometype of something how long due you go in circles and attend everytype of protest where is the goal and responability that was taken on for all of us on our behalf they have maqde no attempt to meet with officials nothing its like how the banks left us waiting on our loan modification for our houses they are leaving us also waiting for help there is never one set goal that is completed there scattered all over even if they at least tackle one project and finish it what will they do next even the press is fading out and eventually how long do they live in the park maybe they should just open a firm sometype of aconsulting firm on political projects and how they can help and support each project I am not being mean I just am so scared I baily sleep with money worries and afraid of loosing our home I truly am grateful but I thought it would be different I feel like theres know where left to turn lately more and more anyway godbless
Yes, get a job.
No need to be rude Joyce...we have a nice mature intelligent vibe right now...don't be a jackass
I hear you. I'll play nice.
There's been a lot of talk about where the Occupy Wall Street movement should go from here. The next step should be getting American businesses (including Wall St. firms) to take some sort of action.
The Occupy Wall Street movement is about the frustration stemming from corporate greed to boost profits at the expense of the greater society. Ultimately we have to make corporate America know that such things as ethics exists and that we the American people are watching our business institutions.
I propose that we create an American Business Code of Ethics. Lawyers have a code of ethics. Doctors and other healthcare professionals have a code of ethics. However business professionals and MBAs do not. Quite the opposite of ethics many business professionals believe that their role is to game the system in whatever way possible in order to boost their share prices. While this may make for short-term profit, ultimately it is bad in the long run for the business and for America.
We need to make business professionals and managers in corporate America understand it is fundamentally wrong to deceive the American public through either fraudulent information or business practices or questionable financial statements.
I propose that we create a list of demands for business ethics and we send it to the CEOs of each Fortune 500 companies! We get them to sign off that they support ethics in business! Our list of demands will make news organizations and the press! If the CEOs ignore our demands then we have more firepower to rile the rest of America!
We have the media coverage. We have the manpower. Now we will make them listen. An American Business Code of Ethics is the best way we can fight corporate greed.
Good. Focus on that opinion/idea. Learn all you can about it and teach other people. While you are at it, listen to other people and help them do the same.
We are our demands.
indeed...but only for so long....if the entire country is marching in the streets but there is no sign or message in anyone's hand or on anyone's mind, how can they hear us and know how to respond?
How are you going to achieve this? I agree with you 100% but how do you propose we achieve this? I am a Polish American, I stood against tanks. What are you willing to do? We have to stand AGAINST THEM, whatever it takes. As long as 99% don't suppress us enough we won't fight and nobody will take us seriously, The only way is to agree on what we want and march on Washington!! How else?
We need to have all political campaigns funded by the taxpayers from a separate fund. An amount would be designated say: 50 million dollars or 25 or whatever is a reasonable amount to actually travel and give speeches, and provide security for the candidates etc. And that NO OTHER MONEY be used, and that any contribution from ANY private donor big or small be made unlawful. AND regulate SPECIAL INTEREST LOBBIES in Washington returning them to their proper place: as counselors and experts not as bankrollers
To get campaign finance reform we need to Occupy The White House, and Occupy Congress. We are wasting our time trying to occupy Wall Street. The CEOs are not going to do anything for us. But putting pressure on the Congress and the President will force the CEOs to deal with us. Congress and the President have the power to force the CEOs to change. ........................... . ............... http://www.savethe99.com/
Good point...but it is still a wonderful symbol...we can make demands from anywhere....
I'm not sure that the physical location matters so much as the sheer numbers, and of course the cameras to record the sheer numbers...
As much as I admire your idea, how would you stop corporates and the Koch brothers setting up their own company to either promote their favorites, or destroy their opponents? Sadly, I think the root of the problem is much deeper - so many Americans have been dumbed down on Jerry Springer and "Reality" TV that they are no longer able to discern truth from lie, no longer able to think for themselves, and no longer have any interest in anything other than instant gratification. There is no way that politicians in some other countries would get away with the crap that our bozos spout. They sit on CNN and Fox and the networks and they either come out with lie after lie (and this applies to both parties) or they outright refuse to answer the questions they are asked, and they just get away with it. Until we have a populace that start engaging their brains again, I don't see how any amount of campaign reform is going to fix the problems that we have.
Unsolicited ads on TV would be considered a form of contribution that would be unlawful, and strictly regulated. Fine the hell out of them for it.
I hear what you're saying though, I just think it is a step..
I agree that this is what needs to happen. How do we make it happen?
The only and best way, in my opinion, that OWS can have the positive affect that it clearly needs if it is can articulate clear demands and create such a groundswell of support for them in the society that Obama can go before Congress and the Media and claim that " there is a mandate in American society for Campaign Finance Reform/Regulation of Lobbyists and that if we do not cede to the "demands" of the protesters it could mean that there will be even more dire consequences for us later on" (ie at the polls in 2012 and beyond). I really believe that if our numbers are great enough, and our demands are succinct and attainable, that we can embolden Obama and others who actually want this type of change already to stand up and put the other cowards on the spot. Even if Obama is among the cowards (which is quite possible) he could be forced into a very difficult position by the magnitude of this grassroots movement.
So it's sounding like you think we need to get OWS to form a consensus. That sounds tricky to me.
but perhaps not impossible....
I'm just not sure how.
This protest has the power to unite the world under one rule of Law. A Law that recognizes no borders by acknowledging the sanctity of every human being as a world citizen with the right to be an equal voice in a world government of the people, by the people and for the people.
World Gov is very dangerous, imho, I think we need to clean our own house a bit honestly.
World Gov is what the Corporate masters want. Then they only have to get one group in their back pockets...
World gov't is already here. The only question is, who will be in charge? The majority or a minority? As long as it is a minority then the people will be ignored as the fight for power takes precedence.
I'd rather see the oppressed majority refashion the so-called "world government" by breaking it apart and starting a new, system based on human interests and needs. Rather than seeing us take over the reigns....I still we need to downsize and get back to basics....
What would be simpler or more basic than a democratic world?
These ar MY demands and goals for US to work for:
Public option & universal health care – medicare for all. Americans pay about double what comparable countries pay for medical care – and get worse results. Other countries do not waste money on “insurance”. Health care is a human right- except in America. Corporations & rich must pay their fair share. [ AMT ] Corporations use hundred of lawyers and accountants to use tax law and bribes to maximize profits and minimize taxes. General Electric, for example had profits of $14,000,000,000.00 In 2010 and paid NO tax. The simplest solution is an Absolute minimum tax, ignoring all deductions or dodges or loopholes of at least 20%. Warren Buffet’s tax rate is less than his secretary’s. Corporations are not people.
Supreme court rulings, especially Citizens United in 2010, have ruled that corporations have the same rights as people. The only way to “overrule” this is a constitutional amendment. Money is not first amendment speech. Supreme court rulings, especially Citizens United in 2010, have ruled that corporations and people have the right to make unlimited political contributions. The only way to “overrule” this is a constitutional amendment. Stop oil company subsidies. The federal government has given oil companies such as Exxon, welfare subsides of hundreds of millions of dollars. Eliminate recent restraints on collective bargaining. In 2011 many states have passed laws eliminating workers rights. Eliminate recent changes to restrict voting.
In 2011 many states have passed laws requiring unobtainable voter id,reducing early voting periods and restricting registration.
Limit all campaign contributions to $100. Money – wall street and otherwise – controls Washington.
Restore banking regulations and regulators. Many banking regulations have been repealed in the last 10 years. Their absence directly led to the 2008 financial disaster. Break up the non-competitive, too big to fail banks. The Glass-Stiegel 1933 law kept banks separate from other kinds of investment companies that take risks – repealed in 1999 & caused 2008. Stop privatization of government. Halliburton Blackwater prisons ........................
Capital gains is taxed as income. Tax exported jobs. Tax extra for ultra-fast stock trades (<1 day) Computers and buy and sell millions of dollars of stock in just a few seconds – creating profits for the owners of the computers and no benefit to the companies or America and can create havoc in the market. End the wars. Cut the military. Create an FDR type WPA & CCC & TVA for wind farms. Hire & train returning vets. Arrest and try the war criminals. Stop using the Patriot Act to spy on Americans Arrest and try the bank/investment criminals. Eliminate the filibuster. Endorse Elizabeth Warren. { this would have some very important and far reaching effects } Find a Republican anti-Norquist pledge to endorse { maybe John Thune or Frank Wolf or Jeff Fortenberry }
reform is the key! Even Alan Greenspan finally admitted in 2008 that he forgot to factor in the "Greed Facto"r into his free markets equations....
easy way out , huh?
Here is what we can do to save America... Find a small business that sells only American Made Products and buy from them. It creates jobs and you get products that will last more than a week and not make you sick. www.AmericanProductionGroup.com is a good place to start. Lets go with that people! Lead, follow or get out of the way!
Here's my dream to get it right:
Today Congress we are here to start the wheels of governing turning in a different direction. It’s pretty obvious to me and the American people that our voice has been lost in the rambling of lobbyist's hard cash throughout the Halls of Justice.
So we are here to take back our government and restore its fundamental principals to the American people. That this government is for the people, and by the people, and not by the rich anymore.
Here’s how we plan on accomplishing this. First, ladies and gentlemen of the US Congress, we are setting up a nationwide interactive website devoted to understanding (if possible) why you vote on a particular issue, and if that vote benefits the American people the most, or one of your campaign contributors? After every vote in Congress, the American people can now see what you are thinking, or not. How? These results will be broadcasted nightly on all of the major networks and on the web.
Secondly, to maintain an even playing filed, we will next enact campaign contribution limits on a maximum of $100 for any person or corporation or so forth; so hopefully now we have an even playing field, which now the lawmaker will hopefully pick what’s right for the American people, verse big business!
Next, it gets better, we are introducing a bill that would require all lawmakers to take a lie detector test if they are asked why they voted on a particular bill.
I’m sorry to say Congress that it has come down to this, but when you deal with children, sometimes you are forced to act according.
Thanks you for your time.
Do you really think these goals are reasonable and attainable, at this point? I think that your heart and ideas are absolutely in the right place, but I think we need something more concrete....if our aim is too radical it will never be accepted on a wide enough level to gain the momentum it will need to go through...
Reforming Campaign Finance and Regulating Lobbyists are two things that have been in the public imagination for decades, it is clear to most people, by now, how these two things would affect change in the larger system. There are MANY current Congresspeople who have supported this in the past....I think if we create a mandate through our protests, the closet supporters of this type of legislation/amendment would be emboldened to follow their hearts....
i think that's all about it too, but i feel this should be our first platfrom, rebuild the walls of regualation, then...
demands - what do you mean - what do we mean ? are they demands that will be "wishes" that we want someone else to do?--
or--
are they what we demand WE will do to achieve OUR goals?
I would like to demand that we disconnect money from government influence - but this will not happen unless WE WORK TO MAKE IT HAPPEN Franklin, Adams, Jefferson did not demand - they worked to achieve their specific goals. The kochs, the tea party - WORKED !--
WE MUST TOO!--
I really dont understand how we define this word for OWS
The only and best way, in my opinion, that OWS can have the positive affect that it clearly needs if it is can articulate clear demands and create such a groundswell of support for them in the society that Obama can go before Congress and the Media and claim that " there is a mandate in American society for Campaign Finance Reform/Regulation of Lobbyists and that if we do not cede to the "demands" of the protesters it could mean that there will be even more dire consequences for us later on" (ie at the polls in 2012 and beyond).
I really believe that if our numbers are great enough, and our demands are succinct and attainable, that we can embolden Obama and others who actually want this type of change already to stand up and put the other cowards on the spot. Even if Obama is among the cowards (which is quite possible) he could be forced into a very difficult position by the magnitude of this grassroots movement.
Yes - but ARTICULATION and SIZE and GROUNDSWELL - so brilliantly engineered by OWS - is not enough. Pressuring the President to pressure congress has been proven not to work. We must go to the source- ACTION - specifically VOTES is the source of power for for AARP, NRA, Tparty.
Writing congressmen & senators - demanding that if they want our vote, we demand theirs & demand they get rid of grover & filibuster - and any other demands OWS puts forth..
If every OWS member sends a letter to their congressman, and gets one other person to write each week - and continue the chain - each letter writer getting another, we could generate millions of letters - that will hit the primary source of gridlock.
ok...let's do both. How about that?
ABSOLUTELY - you have created the movement ( I'm a newbie ) how can I ( or we - preferably ) develop a "peoples lobby" letter writing campaign vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv FIND YOUR REPRESENTATIVE & SENATORs CONTACT: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
http://www.house.gov/ & http://www.senate.gov/
Then, “grass roots” it: get at least 4 of your friends to also email their congressman & get them to “grass roots” this through repeated generations – till Washington is covered in grass!
You can use www.whitepages.com/person
to look up people & addresses & zip codes. Important Note:
they will only pay attention to zip codes in their
<House> congressional district or <Senate> state
DEMOCRACY IS FOR SALE ONLY IF YOUR
INACTION ALLOWS IT !
THE MESSAGE IS:
VOTE THE WAY WE WANT OR WE WONT VOTE FOR YOU
You should add...Breaking Up the Fed and amending the constitution to make any similar future organization unlawful...but I love you guys!!! this has been great...
I agree with nichole, we need to put an end to further imperialism and revert to a military designed to protect our boarders rather than procure territory and police the world.
That's a great ideal....but how will this translate to a concrete, attainable, and sustainable DEMAND without the type of legislation/amendment I proposed at the beginning in this original post?
That is why this forum is important, because it is a chance for us to unify around one or two discrete objectives.
I am not saying that this idea in this post is the only and best place to start, but if it isn't I want some intelligent arguments as to what is.
I CAN be swayed, but not by a laundry list of wonderful ideals that could and would probably create temporary positive change, but do not strike at the core of this corruption and would leave the door open for an unjust war, say, in the future.
I agree 100%. And here's my 2 cents. After watching congressional hearings on oil speculators in 2008, the OWS is a dream come true....
Here's how we can easily Reform Wall Street: Take away their powers "once again." And a Million People March to Capitol Hill will help get it done!
For example, "We are here Congress because we want you to REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which helped saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing investment companies, banks, and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of just being Banks and Insurance companies--Congress why can't you learn a history lesson from 1929? Btw, why did most of you vote for its final repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act (2nd story here)
Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with lawmakers like Senator Phil Gramm who helped create legal gambling casinos for our banks: CNN's The Ten Most Responsible for Economy Collapse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related
Furthermore, we also want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and consequently allowed for such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 250 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right thing, or you're part of the 1%."
So why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole. Former head of U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission speaks to Congress on the high price of oil--and he's not happy about energy deregulations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related
Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the shattering of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw
Let's get focused and bring back Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right in 1933, we don't need to REINVENT the wheel because bringing this Act back will help create an even playing field once again....and let's finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge what they wanted for energy; they went to jail for this; but no one closed the loophole, why? Re-election Monies from the banks and oil companies! The writing is on the wall.
This is great...you should consider drafting a condensed version at some point as well. I now have several different versions of my issue depending on my audience, there are many folks on here who probably won't take the time to sift through this wealth of info. I didn't even and I agree with you and am familiar with much of what you are referring to here.
great idea. thanks
I agree with nichole, we need to put an end to further imperialism and revert to a military designed to protect our boarders rather than procure territory and police the world.
I agree with nichole, we need to put an end to further imperialism and revert to a military designed to protect our boarders rather than procure territory and police the world.
and what you are saying seems to be right down Ron Paul's alley and in tune with his agenda and why I think we all need to support him. He will not accept the kinds of political contributions that you are talking about should be eliminated. Oh, did I mention that he said in his recent Las Vegas press conference talk that he is willing to work as president with a salary of only $39,000/yr, the median salary across the US? Not only that but he has a plan to eliminate one trillion dollars from the national debt the first year of his presidency. Has any of those other clowns said they will work for $39K a year and cut 1T from the debt in a year? Let's give him a chance!
Ron Paul is a good man. But if we don't root out the cancer now...he will be just as handcuffed as Obama if not worse, honestly. The corporate controlled media will have a field day with him....Obama was well-liked, relatively young and good looking, he was basically a media darling and he hasn't been able to do anything of substance.
American politics has a cancer at its core...if we don't root it out at the source....it will destroy us...Period. It doesn't matter who is playing the fake figurehead....
What do you see as being the "cancer at the core" of American politics? Can you be more specific?
Corporate interests dominate the American political landscape, and they have for several decades now, in an ever increasing downward spiral: that is the core of the bank collapse, it is the one and only reason we continue to fight unjust and unwinnable wars over seas, it is the reason that the Middle Class is disappearing, it is the reason that people can work their whole lives, live responsibly and frugally and still have very little to show for it when it is all said and done.
If we can find a way to lessen or hopefully eradicate corporate influence then someone like Ron Paul would be able to do some good work I bet.
I think if you have studied Ron Paul's web site www.ronpaul2012.com and any of his other writings you would have seen that he is not accepting donations from large corporations, but is soliciting funds from common everyday folks like you and me.The 99%. He is asking for help from the American people, not from corporations or other entities. What more could we ask for of a candidate?
But he will be working "with" a couple hundred other elected officials who do take corporate money...one man is not the solution...I really believe that, sorry....
FYI, the Federal Election Commission prohibits ANY candidate from taking corporate contributions for their campaigns
That doesn't really have any impact on the way special interest money is used to dominate the political landscape. Does it seem to you that it does?
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
spread it....
How about...PRESSURE OBAMA TO START WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER FOR THE JOBS ACT FIRST. Since this is the first step in getting us back on track, and people making MONEY so they aren't thrown out of their homes anymore, we have to do SOMETHING! It's an emergency at this point and if we treat it as such, then maybe, just maybe- we'll get something accomplished. But I do respectfully agree with your sentiments, I just think we need a jumping-off point to start this thing churning in the right direction for the people. Look, I have a job but it's NOT ENOUGH. I live at home with my mother who doesn't have much of a job and it's not easy as I'm sure you all know. I don't know about you all but I can't wait anymore for change. There needs to be something done NOW.
I think if we create a mandate to reform the political/election process then we have a fighting chance of getting Obama or some future, better candidate to make a change like the one you suggest.
Right now there is too much pressure on these folks for them to even speak their mind honestly, let alone affect serious change.
I agree, however...he has already signed 2 executive orders so it's a start, I guess? But you have the right idea for the fundamental aspects of a beginning.
Agreed, but we need to go much further than just campaign finance reform in order to be effective, and thus reform all finance, so perhaps you would consider our group's proposal of an alternative online direct democracy of government and business at http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo , hit the facebook “like” button if agreed, and then join our group's 20 members committed to that plan at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
Campaign finance and election systems AS WELL as media, are all related to functional democracy.
We need an Article V convention NOW in order to meed any demand of OWS.
Congress is very afraid of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."
Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Article V conference, Mark Meckler Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-video comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8
Lessig power point on article V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk
Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
I want all my debts forgiven, cause Warren Buffet profited simehow
sarcasm? this is not the kind of demand that will mobilize millions to unify....
You SOB I am dead serious, the needs of the individual wil mobilze the mob to actions
You want OWS' fundamental and first DEMAND to be that they forgive all of your debts? ok, sir...
how about quit being infantile and two dimensional and stop having demands and start solving problems with open source think tanks?
sheesh.
ultimately, you are not in a position and nobody is to brainstorm up mere demands. demands are stupid and infantile. complaints and then problem defintions and then detailed problem solutions are great. that requires time and homework to generate, not bong hits and then a brainstormed imagine yourself as emperor of the world Scrawl. this kind of thing does not help the movement, it just gives the powers that be ammo against us and prevents meaningful conversations which have depth or open source research and problem solving because you and everyone else imagines we can just skip all the steps and churn out "demands." Listen to the other people in the movement who are wisely saying NO to demands lists. I have demands, they are to the movement itself- thats where the real game is.
"Would you rather have war in this land? Do not confront me work with me...Civil unrest could very well lead to civil war... This list will prevent civil war.... Infantile, we are all infants in conciseness, which explains your poor choice of words.... You should be telling me how to make the list better not how it will never work."
? gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago
no, you need to drop making lists of demands. period. until you do open source research and science centered problem solving with other people, you have nothing to say worth repeating. your brain storming in ignorance. it sounds really really awesome to you- but for many people your tone def. Making demands is itself a sign of infantilism. period. Take responsibility and start working the problems in a deep and real way. I should not have to run through this further with you. This is a ludicrous sense of direction, it is not helping the movement and its not useful or meaningful for long term strategy in fact all it is is a giant set of red rings to give the pundits a clear target.
I don't want war. how i stop the war is to work the problems in a deep way and address the war. Not make demands. I'm an adult, not a seven year old, not a hostage taker, not a terrorist. I don't make demands, i communicate evolutionary truths. If ten thousand people follow my example we can have an evolution. If you run around like a bunch of punk alpha dominant azzholes, i promise you, all of your demands will lead to nothing but scorn and alienation.
but i can expect that we will find good solid means to that end instead of self sabotaging means to that end. Change your communication strategy. These are main political issues which you find to be critical. Now ask people to join you in reasearching them and working on these problems open source. You think you have the end product. instead you have a starting point. remove the "demands" from "demands" and replace with "these are the issues i want to discuss which seem critical to me." There you go. Thats the real process. "Demands " is itself what big Bruddah wants precisely because that makes us the ones holding wall street hostage. Domestic terrorism even when called non violent is still in essence domestic terrorism. Terrorists issue demands. Evolutionary patriots form think tanks.
You are slinging an awful lot of barbs here for someone with so many otherwise good ideas... You truly don't believe that OWS can have the positive affect that it clearly desires if it can articulate clear demands? And create such a groundswell of support for them in the society that Obama can go before Congress and the Media and claim that " there is a mandate in American society for Campaign Finance Reform/Regulation of Lobbyists and that if we do not cede to the "demands" of the protesters it could mean that there will be even more dire consequences for us later on" (ie at the polls in 2012 and beyond). ? Really? I certainly do. I feel confident that if our numbers are great enough, and our demands are succinct and attainable, that we can embolden Obama and others who actually want this type of change already to stand up and put the other cowards on the spot. Even if Obama is among the cowards (which is quite possible) he could be forced into a very difficult position by the magnitude of this grassroots movement.
you are BSing. I do know that OWS can have a positive effect. POSITIVE. not negative. demands are negative. Articulating DEMANDS does not do us any good. First it plays us as terrorists. second it asks the oligarchs to listen and obey us. they won't. third it abdicates our own responsibility. SO, NO, DEMANDS are stupid. Not sure how you can MISS this simple point.
You feel confident? i am not interested in how you feel. I have been predicting 20 years into the future very accurately now for most of my life. You clearly are detached from real cause and effect and fail to see that there is no means which this cause can bring about any meaningful effect.
Embolden obama? LOL. see. you want big daddy to take care of you and think you can manage it like that. i have news for you. obama is one of the oligarchs. he ain't on our side. obama is part of the trash to remove from the game, not help. Every move he has made so far in this has been against the people. Obama is not amongst the cowards. hes among the vampires. WAKE UP.
"Demands" ? WTF? why is this so hard for you to understand? i spelled it out. you apparently did a selective reading, and disregarded anything that wasn't what you wanted to hear.
if you want real change, you must take real responsibility. "demands" is infantile pathetic begging as terrorists- and it will have ZERO impact.
in fact it will prevent us from being taken seriously by 98 percent of the population. A formula for failure- centered in the media response. DUH. The oligarchs media wants to know what our "demands" are. Shouldn;t that in and of itself be the FIRST CLUE?
WAKE UP. GROW UP. And start working the problems instead of making ludicrous demands.
still slinging barbs I see....
still being a troll, i see.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Clearly not a troll...just wondering why you feel the need use terms like "infantile," "grow up," and the like when conversing with others who are caught up in the same struggle you are.
Until you can explain to me what better ultimate goal the movement could have than to amass so much support for specific changes that the government is forced to respond accordingly than I really can't see your need to perseverate on the semantic language of "demands". This doesn't strike me (or the vast majority of the other thinking people on this forum) as a radical idea, let alone an infantile one.
again. what i have written above is self evident. it is infantile, pathetic whining and self defeating to speak about demands. adults form open source think tanks. making demands won't work- they won't listen and won't grant demands. making demands is abdication of responsibility and whining pathetically to somebody we think of as big daddy but whom actually is an evil overlord. Darth sidious doesn't care what your demands are- hes going to run the empire his way until and unless we are rid of him.
getting rid of him is work, and making demands is merely running away from that work.
the fact that it doesn't strike you as infantile is proof positive you have been sheeple programmed and zombotified. wake up. The harsh language is neccessary precisely because its patently obvious to start that there is enormous cognitive dissonance operating here. Don't make me slap you with a wet fish, its a waste of our mutual time.
just wake up.
again. what i have written above is self evident. it is infantile, pathetic whining and self defeating to speak about demands. adults form open source think tanks. making demands won't work- they won't listen and won't grant demands. making demands is abdication of responsibility and whining pathetically to somebody we think of as big daddy but whom actually is an evil overlord. Darth sidious doesn't care what your demands are- hes going to run the empire his way until and unless we are rid of him.
getting rid of him is work, and making demands is merely running away from that work.
the fact that it doesn't strike you as infantile is proof positive you have been sheeple programmed and zombotified. wake up. The harsh language is neccessary precisely because its patently obvious to start that there is enormous cognitive dissonance operating here. Don't make me slap you with a wet fish, its a waste of our mutual time.
just wake up.
Godoftruth explains evolutionary truths if every body followed him we would all evolve to a higher plain of thought. I think he is a Leo they always want people to follow them. Your demand to end bribery of our reps is the primary focus of ows. What mechanisms are we to use at our disposal or do we create to get to the root problem of SCOTUS who enables the 1% and sees us as peons. There is only one system that we can adopt from Scandinavian countries that deals with the SCOTUS situation. Two states have already adopted this system but this is not enough to go up against 5 Monarchs who have the percieved consent of the people. This New Guard system is a duty we are to provide for our future security. The 99ers/people commissioned Jason Bourne to investigate corruption and bribery in Gov. It has been refined for 200 years and proven to work so well that 39 nations have adopted this Jason Bourne system. Check out my Jason post and let me know what you think.