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Forum Post: What an Absolute Disgrace of Regulation

Posted 1 year ago on Feb. 19, 2013, 10:15 p.m. EST by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

So now we are raising revenue by setting up "stings" looking for people who work on houses without out proper GOVERNMENT papers. What in the fuck is this?

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/10/18/exclusive-bso-sting-nets-arrests-of-19-unlicensed-contractors/

People's clamoring for protection from EVERYTHING is really starting to fuck up the entire country. I mean, we are at the point here where if you work on HVAC for a living, you are now a criminal for installing one down the street as a side job. And the home owner is a criminal too.

What an absolute disgrace of a police state Florida is. We dont have licensing for contractors in Rochester, and the quality of work is much higher. Not saying its a direct correlation, but clearly from the looks of things down here its not doing a damn thing except keep people from feeding themselves and working.

35 Comments

35 Comments


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[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 1 year ago

There is another side to this. I dated a guy when I lived in Key West. He was a carpenter. I paid for the books and paid for him to get his contractors license. So, he busted his ass and got his contractors license. He started his own business. So, ya. when you have people that do unlicensed work than you are undercutting and harming those people that did the work right the first time.

[-] 1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Isn't this what everyone here tries to fight against though? You're essentially creating a monopoly on carpenter work forcing people to pay for licensing services that could potentially be much much cheaper by using someone locally who has a good reputation and no license....how does that help the poor and struggling?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21785) 1 year ago

Potentially?

Like I said, there are two sides to these stories. I think people like Joe the Plumber are absolute disgraces. If they spent more time going after those businesses that hire undocumented workers then we might get somewhere.

[-] 1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

I think licensing is just getting way out of control these days. If you want to find licensed work that's great...but it shouldn't be illegal to use someone who isn't licensed when it comes to your property...that's your choice.

I forget what state it is....but it's actually illegal to braid someone's hair and get paid for it if you're not licensed.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21785) 1 year ago

I'm surprised that we haven't had more of those prosecutions. [/sarcasm]

I think that OTP is 100% correct in that simply having a license doesn't mean much. It operates like protection money. The Black Hand in some ways. You can still do a lot of illegal crap but nobody is lookin' because you paid 'em off. So, they should either do it right or don't.

When it comes to property, I do think that it should be left to the owner of the property. You want me to get a permit because you really care or do you want me to get a permit so that you can increase my taxes?

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

And as soon as he misses some payments on his insurance from a slow economy, they yank his license. Now illegal to work.

If he gets in trouble in his personal life, they yank it. Now illegal to work.

Cant manage to get enough money under your belt for it? Something always seems to come up? Illegal.

Do the work for 20 years with someone else, and want to do some side work- illegal.

Every licensed contractor worked as an unlicensed one at one point or another.

The thing is, by simply falling in line, they are many times paying for something that the market simply doesnt really care about. Some customers do, and thats their target market.

Want a license? Fine. Making criminals of people who are simply working on houses to try to get by in this bullshit economy is not the best way to conduct ourselves, in my opinion.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 1 year ago

I understand that side of it, too. It looks like these guys that are not legit (momentarily/ or having never been) are still advertising.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

There is no "legit"...its just another government money grab. And give cops something to do. Go around busting people for putting in a new floor.

Ya, advertising without the permit is an entire other charge. Its endless.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 1 year ago

If there wasn't a legit than we wouldn't be having this discussion. .

Oh, I have found a number of things that one can't do to one's house without getting someone else to to do them and those people having to be licensed. It's looking like a racket.

[-] 0 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 1 year ago

These are similar to some of the early examples of Greeks refusing to accept the authority of their corrupt government, eventually becoming so rampant most government revenues dried up. Barter on steroids.

The Greek leadership was unable to keep the common person from knowing about the corruption, unlike here so far.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 1 year ago

Which Greeks would those be?

[-] 0 points by alterorabolish1 (569) 1 year ago

I assume you want me to name specific Greek leaders, which is a distraction to the real point.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21785) 1 year ago

No, the city state and time period is good.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I know legit work when I see it, and licensed companies versus unlicensed is not going to help the cause of the licensed guys.

The people who administer the license could care less about quality, or they would make at least part of the test hands on, seems how thats what the job is.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (21785) 1 year ago

Then there is that. I have a couple of people up here that I trust to get shit done and that's it. I agree that simply because someone has a license doesn't mean that their work is going to be top notch and also that they are not going to rip you off.

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

I never heard of a contractor losing his license because of "no insurance" unless he did work for a customer, caused damage and couldn't pay for the repairs.

You are grasping for straws - With the way todays contracing laws are along with the internet anyone can look on the government web site to see if a person is licensed.

And licensing a person is not making a criminal out of them - it creates a "testing standard" meaning that if a person wants to become licensed they need to meet certain requirements with regard to working in the field and knowledge of the field they are working in.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Um, sorry but let me fill you in: When your insurance laps, they are required to notify either the county or the state.

And the tests are not hands on. A trades test that isnt even hands on. How hysterical is that. Over half the test is on government tax regulations and procedures.

Another Romney voting nutcase that really is just another top down regulating zombie. Im shocked.

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Licensing is done by the state and so are the "requirements to keep a license active".

I would think all states require insurance and reporting lack of insurance is to protect the general public.

Also testing standards are different from state to state. Some states require the person to have a "signed affadavid" from 3 individuals stating that that person worked at that trade for a specific period of time.

In addition to that most states require 8 hours of CEU's per year. And just about all states give an 8 hour test to get licensed.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Um, actually licensing is and county, sometimes city as well.

I figured fascist would come out of you sooner or later.

Dont worry, your government loves you and will always be there for you.

[-] -1 points by engineer4 (272) 1 year ago

There are a lot of people out there that are preyed on by unlicensed contractors, especially the elderly. These guys come in, take the money, do shoddy work and are never seen again. Now sure, there are people who perform side jobs ( most union trades do that in the cities), but you have to have some control or rules or it would be a disaster. And there are common sense reasons for building codes, electrical and plumbing codes, etc. they are in place to protect the general public from the bad apples out there. Look what happens whenever there's a natural disaster: rampant fraud, theft of service, shoddy workmanship, etc. No one is kept from working. Would you hire an unbonded or inexperienced contractor to work on your house or business? If you answer yes, then your quite the risk taker, and sooner or later will pay the piper. There is no police state. Your blaming them for enforcing the law. If you do not like the law, vote to get it changed, until then, abide by it.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Well, seems how I believe in our previous conversations you were all gung ho for daytime road stops, Im not suprised by this.

Glad you brough up bonding. Because its really important someone is bonded to come and replace a window.

Fraud is rampant during natural disasters because of the huge influx of demand. There is no licensing in many parts of the country, and the field operates just fine.

Hiring an inexperienced contractor is the result of not doing one's homework. People want references, preferably from a neighbor or friend.

And most of the house flippers I know dont worry about that nonsense, myself included, because they realize that dumb test the gov gives to license you doesnt mean shit as far as what typed of worker you are.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

What a joke...

"Because we have to do everything possible to protect our citizens," said Nocco. " Yup, theres the state looking out for you, putting people who work on houses in jail.

Great job Pasco.

Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_pasco/new_port_richey/operation-'in-hot-water'-targeted-unlicensed-contractors-in-pasco-county#ixzz2LPQWZums

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Apparently you know nothing about licensing for if you did you wouldn't make the comment that "we don't need a license in Rochester".

Yes you do need a license in Rochester, Ill and Rochester, NY.

So you want to hire a "unlicensed, uninsured, no-bond" plumber person who will come into your house and just maybe burn it down while soldering. No insurance so you pay the bill - your insurance rates go up and possibly the insurance may not cover it because that person was unlicensed and working "illegally"

Lets say you have a unlicensed roofing contractor working on your roof and he falls off the roof - He has no insurance so he sues you -

This is another example of posting information not really knowing the "full story" but instead letting your emotions take over.

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Um, no you dont. I gew up in the industry in Roc NY. Are you a GC?

I bet you are big fan of Obamacare mandates too eh?

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Let me enlighten you:

Building Permit Rochester NY

http://www.cityofrochester.gov/article.aspx?id=8589936563

Licensing in the State of NY

http://generalcontractorlicensecenter.com/general-contractor-licensing-in-new-york/

All General and Home Improvement Contractors who work and do business in the state of New York must have a license to do so issued by the governing authority.

http://www.professional-services.com/contractorrequirements.html

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Just permits, no license.

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well why don't you do this - pretend you are remodeling your neighbors house and go ahead and apply for a permit - the form is on the web site - fill it out and submit it - then let us know what happens.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

My neighbors wouldnt be dumb enough to pay the local politicians for the ability to work on their own damn house, that they paid for.

There have been people clamoring for licensing in Rochester for a long time, sooner or later you will win. And the market will become worse a result, and you will get stuck paying Home Depot to roof your house, and in reality they are subbing it to a guy in a office with 20 minimum wage workers working for him.

And we have permitted plenty of flips. The city wants their money, its that simple.

You fools just dont learn.

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Maybe your comment "my neighbors wouldn't be dumb enough to pay the local politicans for the ability to work on their own damm house that that they paid for" is reason enough to hire a licensed contractor.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

And why is that? You go and pay your local politicians $300 for the right to change out a few windows?

Well you should, because they are there to make sure you are taken care of.

You know, because you cant handle the process of remodeling your home on your own....you need them there to manage it....

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Maybe the reason is that when a person doesn't have to get a permit they cut corners -

Maybe as I previously posted - should a "non licensed" contractor get injured doing a job for you - falling off a roof, flood damage, fire, you will foot the bill.

I gues you are ok with that - well I'm not - whenever I have a contractor do work on my house, I check to make sure they are licensed, insured and bonded - if need be. Should they use "sub-contractors" I make each and every one sign a "lien waiver" to protect myself.

So if you don't want to go that route - don't - but you had better watch out - make sure you have a "fat wallet".

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Plenty of people have been doing work for a very long time without permits and licenses. Still are...People who cut corners dont stay in business too long...thought you were a free market guy... How did all these gorgeous old homes get built without the government looking over their shoulder? Hmmm...

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

I am a free market person but I also like to do things according to the law.

You still didn't respond to my post regarding "water damage, fire or personal injury" by people doing a job on your property without insurance. Would you all that? I wouldn't -

I was working at a nursing home and one of the workmen was on a ladder cutting out a piece of sheetrock - 5" x 5" square.

It just so happened a nurse was walking by and when the final cut was made the piece slipped out of his hand and hit her on the shoulder.

The workman came down off the ladder and asked if she was ok - she stated she was and continued to work the rest of the day.

3 weeks later here attorney sent a letter to our company requesting payment for her "medical bills" to the tune of $3,000.00.

It can happen when you least expect it - especially if a worker falls or slips inside your house because you have a loose carpet on the floor.

.

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

You can have insurance without being licensed in the no license states. As far as worrying about people falling and whatnot, its a logistical concern. Would I want an uninsured crew of people 50' up in the air on my house? Prob not.

The issue of people suing people is another issue. The lust for suing is absolutely out of control in this country. Its not helping at all. Sometimes things do happen, but like in your example, theres always someone out there looking for their lucky break.

That being said, any kind of certification is a good marketing tool. But to make it mandatory, and make anyone who doesnt have it a criminal is a road we dont want to go down, imo.

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Here's one in St Pete. More people being charged by the state, with no clue as to what type of people they are or what the quality of work they do.

I guarantee they are better than the minimum wage hacks that the big LICENSED companies put on people's roofs.

Absolutely disgusting. Putting people in jail for being the local handyman. Because they didnt take the bulllshit govenrment test, or werent allowed for a variety of reasons.

Come over here as an immigrant, looking to start your own business? Strapped for cash? Go fuck yourself.