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Forum Post: We've been conned!

Posted 5 years ago on Jan. 24, 2013, 12:52 p.m. EST by agkaiser (2095) from Fredericksburg, TX
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

We've been conned. Of that there's no doubt in my mind. Most of us are still conned. Even among the awakened the con persists in greater or lesser degrees. So what's fundamental in economy and what is superfluous? What is more or less a part of the con?

No economy is possible without the support of a community. That's the reality, though an individual that lives alone in the wilderness and subsists by it's own production without human interaction may be said to have an independent economy. But that's not reality. Real economy is a community thing. Without community there is no economy and little chance of bare survival. We are social animals.

We learn from one another and pay special attention to our leaders. Over the past several thousands of years, we've been seduced by the notion that mercantilism, trade and finance [mtf] are the fundamentals of economy. That's not so. A real economy is the means by which a community sustains and enhances life. At best, mtf facilitates the distribution of goods in a society. It's not the only means by which people acquire the thing we need to live.

Today mtf has become not merely superfluous. It has devolved to a threat to our existence by the concentration of wealth it has allowed corrupt leadership to perpetrate. The ruling classes incarnate an abomination of human nature through corruption of social instinct, by taking so much for themselves that not enough is left for us to adequately support our lives. We social animals have been domesticated and driven like cattle to a slaughter [debt peonage] that we praise in the name of a free market economy that is neither free nor an economy in any real sense.

There are many paths off of this dead end course laid for the human race, by the greed of misleaders. We can not get the majority to take the better roads until they see the danger of the beliefs that have been cultivated in them by the owners of the world. Until enough of us see that mercantilism, trade and finance are not the real economy we must support, there's little hope for the long term survival of the human race. Until we become abolitionists in opposition to debt slavery we will remain doomed by our common stupidity.



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[-] 2 points by elf3 (3900) 5 years ago

Well said. A thought suddenly occurred to me yesterday that someday future generations will learn in school how their idiotic ancestors covered their food in poisonous chemicals and dumped their garbage all over the place and gave themselves cancer. Those who seek to keep the status quo and deny reality or science or the fact that they contribute to the reality of others and choose to ignore fact in place of the new American slogan "it could always be worse or you're just negative and should consider the good things you have" are perpetuating a propaganda that is designed to keep people from expecting upward mobility; propaganda designed to invalidate and subserviate the masses. Does the laborer or secretary no longer deserve to partake of the American Dream? Must they live a deranged version where until they "make something of themselves", live a version where they will live in struggle, and starve until they learn how to make themselves rich in order not to live in squalor amidst crime and noise, must they expect not to get poper healthcare, proper education for their children, or not have children altogether until they are wealthy? A country of the rich and the rest of us now second class citizens? Once upon a time a plumber, hairsylist, shop clerk, could earn a nice house with a white picket fence in the same town or even next door to his boss. Now, unless you own rental property, have capital gains, or you,re a lawyer or politician, should you expect such luxuries as the bygone American Dream replaced by the new American Aristocracy.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 5 years ago

Elf, I have the same thoughts every day. I talk to my girlfriend in depth about these issues and we compare today to our youth. My friend has a grand daughter whose about ten now and I listen to stories about her and how she perceives our world today. The girl read ' Hunger Games' and thought it was really cool.

Sometimes I wonder if our future generations will even care that their idiotic ancestors destroyed the earth. I used to believe that they would but now I'm beginning to believe more that the younger generations have been integrated into everything unhealthy and immoral and greedy and accept it as the norm. The younger generations have been conditioned to an intensely competitive world. I don't know how old you are but I'm 51 and there was plenty of concern about global warming, pesticides, war, etc...since before I was born and it seems my generation really didn't accomplish anything that is sustainable. Remember Silent Spring by Rachel Carson? We did banish DDT but we added a whole bunch more pesticides and other destructive industries, behaviors and toxins to the world since then.
The world has changed so much just in the last 20 years that it's not difficult for me to imagine a completely phony and unnatural world in 100. Will anyone care or will they be laughing at us, talking about how we tried to save farms ( that were not needed) or oceans or trees or wildlife or air. Maybe the natural world has run it's course and we are being stubborn and short sighted and selfish by trying to preserve things that have become obsolete. Do we need bees? Maybe they can invent mechanical pollinators- mini drones- that visit our gardens and make synthetic honey.
I hope that I don't ever know such a world but maybe that's my problem. Maybe I'm too spiritual and not progressive enough.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Have you seen Jerome Corsi's work? Is he a Reliable Source of Info? He seems to be saying something that will threaten to deflate US Wages even further through Foreign Free-Trade Zones and the sale of land and US Businesses to Companies with Chinese Interests.


[-] 5 points by agkaiser (2095) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 years ago

You must be joking! I'm sure there are grains of truth underneath the babble. But really it's mostly paranoid ravings.

There's certainly danger that China will capitalize on. Our capitalists created it. The economy is likely to fail but nationalistic fervor or loyalty to our ruling elite masters whose greed has caused it will not help.

We need real economies that we control. The owners are a threat to our existence. The capitalists are the enemy. The Chinese don't need us. Our leaders sold the farm to them and stashed the cash in the Cayman Islands.

So we better get together with other awakened people and plant a garden. Establish small, closed, self sufficient communities and economies that can survive the end of the idiot world we grew up in.

Let the investors move to Galt's Island and try to live by eating their hord of gold and guns. Or stay in the dying cities and shoot it out with the bangers.

"How Does That Work?" https://www.createspace.com/3852916 attempt to shine a little light.

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 5 years ago

Yes! Turning our backs on their system...and creating our own, instead of marching to the capital and demanding change from 'them'. They will never help us. We need a "People's Society". We have to do this ourselves.

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (2095) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 years ago

I didn't suggest we stop trying to change the system. But have a plan B for when the marches, demonstrations, protests and actions of all sorts fail.

Most of all propagate the truth. Change requires a critical mass of enlightened thinkers and doers.

"How Does That Work?" https://www.createspace.com/3852916 attempt to shine a little light.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 5 years ago

I like the turning our backs concept but I can't agree with NOT marching. We should embrace all non violent tactics. Marching can be a useful tool to garner publicity for a tax refusal strategy for instance. Certainly it is easy to see little progress from our marching but of course throughout history early marches frequently have similar weakness. Time, & growth will improve our marching effectiveness. So I agree with the turning our backs, & creating a peoples society, not so much the not marching idea.

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 5 years ago

Yes...let me clarify. OWS has and still needs to expose all the financial criminality, military industrial complex, etc, etc to educate the masses. However, to me, there is a sense of 'mass subterfuge' happening as well. The oligarchs are trying to 'steer' us in a million different directions so that we get lost in an ocean of issues and don't focus on the one or two biggest issues. We just have to make sure WE steer this revolution and stay on course. I used the term "marching to the capital" figuratively. I need to be more clear sometimes. Yes we need to peacefully march...in the streets...loud and clear....NO violence or skirmishes of any kind, BUT, only as a means to bring attention to the masses...not to parliament, not to government, not to 'the establishment' in any way.

While this is happening, there should be a constant effort and emphasis on 'Tax Refusal' building. Occupy could & should be absolutely instrumental in this endeavor. The "Tax Refusal" portion of this revolution needs to be worked on NOW, so that when the marches turn bloody...and they WILL (the oligarchs and government will make sure that it does. We've already seen much proof of this), we can stop the marches at our own choosing before it gets too horrific, and the "Tax Refusal" can immediately commence at that point. Non-compliantly and more importantly...safely.

We need to stop 'demanding' that government fix all this. If they wanted to fix it, they would have done it long ago. We need to 'turn our backs' to them and their system! Lets create our own system. We know far better than them how to use our tax money and anything else we want to incorporate into a loving and compassionate 'People's Society'. Solidarity!! :~]

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 5 years ago

I'd love to see the loving, compassionate 'peoples society'. I'm for that. I am all about non violence. (I do not think there is a gaurantee that marches WILL get bloody though, but it is possible and the oligarchs DO want that) As I said I like the tax refusal idea, and I'm willing to do it myself. Building to it is a great strategy, Occupy focusing & taking the lead would be excellent. Finally I must say that whatever we do, I DO suppport demanding change from any politician in power. I also support adding to the progressive caucus because I support their efforts even though they never get anywhere. Solidarity. hopefully we have enough in common to be on the same team. I think our goals are similar enough.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Yeah, I did a web search seems he is a tea partier. So maybe he is Libertarian Capitalist or just Capitalist. I did a search on FTZs and found a department of commerce map with listing of all the corporations that import export to states & cities. It is quiet the corporate list.

Solution: Simplify all Systems.

1) Income tax System, simplify to a 20 page booklet for all businesses and Individual households (6 tax credits total)
2) Links and Ties with Government, Special Relationships between corporations and tax abatements, Public Private Government deals - Simplify and get rid of them
3) End all Lobbying, Gift Giving, Campaign contributions to government officals
4) simplify requirements to attend national presidential debates, simplify or incentivise getting third party candidates in all political events, microphone time equal to all others. Probably means having national air time on tv, cable, radio for free for third party candidates and everyone else, weekly. That is democracy.
5) Break up the Media Corporations with Anti-Trust Law, break up other big corporations too. Simplify.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 5 years ago

simplify is good.
disconnect democracy from capitalism

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Yes, complex systems increase risk ... global free trade probably has caused people around the world to starve just since some people are investing in futures of commodities ... and causing price increases ...just since they want to "Make A Market".

Capitalism is hiding what you know and what you are doing ...either to prevent competition ... or to deceive consumers ... or to deceive taxpayers ...or deceive voters ... or to attack your competition on the "Low Low".

Transparency is Democracy. Transparency is Simpification.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (2095) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 years ago

You've got my vote! Only 50 million or so to go. Have you considered any alternatives?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago


1) Mass Migration to Panama, Costa Rica, or Dominican Republic
2) Mass Tax Protest by Individual Tax Payers (messy idea)
3) Million Prosters March on Washington DC by OWS
4) National Jubilee Holiday to educate people on Rent-Seeking
5) National Car Pool Month, to cut consumerism, stimulate community conversation about OWS Issues
6) Boycot Walmart Month, to show solidarity & Power of Consumers
7) Simplify all Government Systems (said that)
8) Turn Off TV or Turn Off Cable TV Month (Solidarity)
9) Stop Buying major Brands Month in Grocery Shopping (solidarity)
10) Stop Bathing Week, the smell will cause a buzz for sure (Solidarity)
11) Long hair Pact, one Year No Hair Cut, (solidarity)
12) No Fast Food Purchases Month (solidarity)
13) Generic Food & Products Month (solidarity)
14) End Cable or Satelite Subscriptions except for Internet Month or Six Months - You will get a better rate when you resubscribe, but the point is all media is owned by just a few companies who don't educate the Public, who dumb us down, who obfuscate, who no longer investigate (Solidairity)
15) There is no more American Brands, Boycott all Products made partly overseas for one Month (solidarity)

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (2095) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 years ago

How 'bout alternatives in case you can't change or save the system. If it fails in spite of all the good ideas, if the fools just can't change, if the worst case scenario unfolds, what is your plan Z?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Hm... stimulating the imagination.

1) Really can't imagine any kind of settlement in USA being far enough off the grid. You know even Amish or Menonites can get harrased for selling raw Milk or whatever.
2) Moving to Malaysia is kind of accepting the Asian way of government as far as I know. It is a Muslim country, but think the Chinese there are very influential.
3) you can live outside of the USA as long as your dollar converts fairly, you can use the Dollar all over Latin America so far.
4) Form Your Own Cartel or Zaibatsu or Keiretsu or Chaebol ....
5) Form an Organic Farm Community, with Energy Production, Water Production, Wood Works, Home Construction, Electronics Shop, Bio Dome, Gravel Pit, Orchards, Fish Ponds or Fish farms, and government. Where? Ecuador, Belize, Panama, Costa Rica, Idaho, ....

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (2095) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 years ago

Do the Amish get hassled when they keep their raw milk and use it in their own community?

Trade, foriegn or domestic, is not fundamental to economy. A real economy's priority is the providence of the home community. Trade with other communities is fine, as long as this one has all it wants and needs.

America's foreign traders [or traitors] take what we need and sell it to others for a profit or buy foreign goods instead of employing us to make them. We need an economy that works for us. We must eliminate the clowns who run this circus. Only then can we have an economy or economies that work for us, instead of us working for them.

Before we can imagine an economy that works for the people, we need to cleanse our minds of the masters program that informs our dysfunctional beliefs.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Structure is what makes markets work. The structure is regulations. I'm predicting a food crisis based on market being largely free to export without any cap or ceiling. If I sign contracts or own the corn, wheat, soybeans, potatoes, or whatever ... I'm thinking I can sell them overseas if I want and it won't matter what effect it might have on US markets. This is probably true for all commodities.

But as I understand it, stock market, stock exchange, or commodity exchange the rules are what makes it work ... to find the best price ... to match buyers and sellers ... to operate in a safe environment free from counterfeit goods, and free from financial fraud.

But sounds like today we look at Wall Street Fraud, and rehypothicating assets, and CDS on top of CDS, and derivatives given AAA ratings on bundles with only partial AAA assets ... sounds like our markets only work if you know what it true, if you are an expert and you know what to avoid.

This is like the Chinese Stock Market when they first started up in the 1990s. So is seems like today we have adopted the Chinese model for our Markets. And the Chinese model is to buy hard assets and capital equipment really. We better stick to real estate as well....

Yes, Farmaggedon was about Dairy Farming in the US mostly. I heard a couple of interviews with the Directors, but didn't see the movie. Anyway, ... you can not process any farm product or that requires ... another liscence for production or manufacturing. So many people had milk clubs or farm clubs to get the Raw Milk. They got busted. One lady thinks you can share a cow in a club and have the farmer milk it for you and that would be legal.

1) So You can buy your own pig, goat, sheep, or cow and have the farmer feed it and milk it.
2) I think any Farm Community that wants to produce energy, wood work, dairy products, canning fruit or vegis or mushrooms ... need to get a bunch of separate liscenses from the many government offices. You may be required to have separate buildings for each form of production as well to allow for inspections....
3) And if a farm Community did all that production ... then it has to have safety plans for each production area, and probably hazardous materials waste area for any spills, oil spills, gas spills, paints, cleaning products, soil contaminated, who knows what else.....

Solved: Here is a solution, If the Government Ran the Computers of the Stock Exchanges and Commodities Exchanges it could control the Fraud, Computer Algorithem Trading, high Speed Trading, and naked Short Selling without loaned stocks.....

The Reason you here all the bad talk about government involvement in Finance & Business is that they know it would be honest and hard to gamble and make money.

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (2095) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 years ago

There's an easier way to stop the fast algorithm trading. A transaction tax. But it's already a tower of babel and the collapse is likely. That doesn't mean you should do or not do anything. I just want to have a backup economy. You know. Just in case. I don't know how to fix capitalism. I don't think it can be fixed. It's a system that concentrates wealth at the top and it's so successful that the system falters due to lack of wealth at the bottom, where we do the work. So anything you can talk the idiot entrepreneurs, brain dead politicians and inbred investors into doing is fine with me. Maybe it will work. Maybe it won't.

You can count on a garden. Maybe not. But a self sufficient, subsistance backup small scale economy seems more reliable than the Chinese Wall St parasites to me. I'm not looking for more information. I'm selling, not buying.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Them thats got the gold, they make the rules. = Capitalism.

We don't have access to Representatives ...and if we did they will still do what the big Campaign Contributors tell them to do.

OWS is trying to leverage non-violent actions to threaten Congress and the Whitehouse.

It is an Education better than Playing Video Games that is for Sure.

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (2095) from Fredericksburg, TX 5 years ago

Yep. So if we fail to change the world and it all falls down, how will we pick up the necessities of life?

I know! We'll all buy gold and live on our investments. No one will ever have to work or farm or anything. Why didn't Adam and Eve think of this? We could have made heaven on Earth millennia ago!

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

LOL I heard Boner has a 10 year plan to balance the budget and then we will all live happily ever after.

Count on the 2 party system to focus on one issue at a time and completely avoid the seven 800 lbs Elephants in the Room.

1) $600 Quadrillion Dollars in US Derivatives Globally
2) Robust Shadow banking Industry which is Opaque, Continuing Financial Crimes, Evidence of Mass Conspiracy in Financial Circles through LIBOR Scandal, Evidence of Government Cover-up of all Financial Crimes.
3) Marriage of Corporations to Federal Government
4) Federal Regulations which position themselves are Primary across all Industries, but which have been captured by Industrial Revolving Door, Lobbying, and other methods, and Regulations which are being either not enforced or are being reduced to lower standards.
5) Capture of Government by Military Industrial-Security Complex (PMIC), leading to foreign wars, and the Creation of a huge new Federal Agency DHS.
6) Job Losses in the USA, Wage Stagnation, Loss of benefits, Loss of Pensions, Loss of Retirement Funds, Under Funded Retirement Funds, No Interest or Growth in Retirement Funds or Treasury Bills, Off-Shore Corporation HQs, Off-Shore Production created on Closed US Factories/Manufacturing.
7) The Rise of Corporate Oligopolies across all industries including Media, Insurance, Health Care Insurance, Big Agriculture, Big Grocery Stores, Big TBTF Banks, Big Auto Companies, Big Pharma,