Forum Post: We need a NEW site that silences trolls
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 17, 2011, 3:11 a.m. EST by arcticaardvark
(54)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
We cannot have a real discussion with the same trolls who come on here everyday and provoke people to respond to their ridiculous statements. They get way to much satisfaction out of it. I don't think it is fair for the rest of us who want to engage in a civil conversation.
The trolls should be as welcome to spout their nonsense a anyone else. Ignore the stupid stuff but think about the genesis of their critique. Our ideas should be challenged and we should be prepared to defend them.
Why consider it nonsense? It's free intelligence - as in, you have no need to spy.
Knowing your enemy is the way to beat them. Welcome the criticism. Combat it.
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There are NOT more trolls, Just less OWS
OUCH,,,,,,,, perfect comment. I count about 60 total and 23 online at any given time.
OWS is predicated on self destruction. No leadership and no choosing sides. If you don't rebuke hatred then you embrace it.
Is that suppose to be informative and wisdom. C'mon troll, you can do better than that. Some of you guys are so dmn lame in your bllshit you arent worth a good insult.
Sorry dude, not a troll. I am just trying to state that if you have no leadership then you will be subjected to haters on your forum. That's all.
my apologies, just giving those hell and there are many. There's still time before the next elections as well as candidates to emerge who will work for really reforming the government. At the time both parties are the problem. Myself i believe this movement will continue to grow as it became a place for many to come together as shows overtime. There are many amongst such that vote. Time to find the right candidates.
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal. Emma Goldman
Then we need to educate as many as we can like such. http://goo.gl/ZZImV
no doubt - the beginning of end of the vietnam war was the teach ins - that said now we need to organize - hopefully ows has another move up it's sleeve for the spring that will attract even more people - other than that it is going to be a long slow grind as usual. maybe the gop will get santorum elected and the country will revolt
No worries. I have hope as well.
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At Occupytogether.org there is a Standard for civil discourse that prohibits flaming and acts to isolate and remove trolls from the forum once it is established that their obvious tactic is brutal in spirit and disruptive to civil discourse in practice. There's no good reason to allow anonymous posters to behave contrary to the principle of civil discourse, which contrarian spirit does not add anything worth defending to the aims of Occupy General and acts as a distraction and diversion from the aims of Occupy.
"We need a NEW site that silences trolls "
Philosophically OWS does not believe in preventing its enemies from attacking, undermining and subverting it. OWS and the libertarian disruptive elements are all anarchists who believe in the freedom and liberty of anarchists to prey on everyone else.
This basic problem with OWS is what keeps me from 100% support of the organization. I believe in fighting your enemies while OWS believes in appeasing their enemies in hope of assimilating them. Fact is it is OWS that will be assimilated by their enemies because they refuse to defend themselves.
I object to the commercials being posted for internet tv shows.
That's too much.
and IP addresses could be logged to prevent multiple profiles.
Trolls are tyrants. If you cooperate with tyranny you empower it. Do not cooperate with it and it dies.
How do you plan to silence trolls without silencing freedom of speech? I've trolled before in other places (IMDb mostly) and its incredibly easy to throw something into the discussion which ruffles some feathers. The capacity exists within all of us in my view and is very easy to bring to the surface. How do you suppress something like that?
with ows, it's Free speech for me but not for thee.
Kind of like the same trolls who interrupt speeches and camp out at GOP conventions.
Trolls refine thinking. Please do not lock the trolls out. THEY NEED HELP TO. Whoever designed this was genius. They knew this site would start off in hate then refine into love. This is a rage quit site.
This calls for head crushing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pKXMcfx1d8
We need a new site that respects non-trolls. If I disappear, you know who to go after...
See http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-there-another-forum-thats-serious-about-discuss/
I am now Rico at themultitudes.org . They provide moderated forums, have a 'Report' button, and allow screening of posters who annoy you. Browse the forums at http://www.themultitude.org/forum/index.php then come over and join us if you like what you see !
BUT, it is important for OWS to practice recognizing troll arguments. Plus you can tell the tactics the think tanks are trying out by what they post here. We just need to stand together, either ignore the post, or point out why it is a troll post. Some people here are new voters, they are not familiar with basic political tricks.
But of course you want to silence opposition. OWS believes in free speech only if it is theirs.
WE SHOULD HAVE A THREAD RATING SYSTEM!
So it lets people know if the thread isn't progressive.
Try hooking up with one of the Working Groups, That would be a much more useful and productive use of you time and energy, This site is ok for people who stumble across it and want to know more about OWS, but it is really not designed for serious activists as no substantive decisions can be made here, nor is it designed for that sort of thing, I really recommend that everyone who can become involved in a GA or occupation at least on a part time basis or if there is no GA or occupation near you, start one in your own community, That is the best way to support and be active in OWS, Certainly not on this site, So why am I here? I am a part time occupier. I work part time and have some medical problems and I hang out here when I can't be at an occupation,
hahhahahahahahahahahaha Trolls: 1 OWS fools: 0
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Nope. OWS supporters should stay on this forum because this is the OWS forum! Just figure out which are trolls and which are here to discuss and debate real topics. It takes a little while. Keep a list of names so you can remember who is just an annoying troll and who is real and just disagrees. You may not always get it right but as soon as you figure out someone is a troll stop responding to them. Engage the real people who simply disagree. This is very important.
They are the Frank Luntz type people who use reality distortion to confuse the issues. There are also those who are simply filled with hate and low mental abilities that can only retort with slurs and name calling.
There should be a group of trusted posters that can just remove some people's right to be here if they have nothing to say.
Honestly a lot of those things you mention, like hate filled and low mental abilities, apply to a lot of OWS supporters too, just as they do to the trolls. They are a lot of immature people among OWS who have no problem with name calling.
I agree.
hahaha! censorship !!! thank you for exposing yourself.
Of course there has to be censorship when there are issues that demand critical thought and people who do their best to obfuscate and muddy the discussion. Go post on the Tea Party sites where you can bolster your beliefs.
spoken like a true totalitarian. thank you
If you have nothing to offer for solutions then why be here? If all you can do is try to muddy an already clouded discussion then what is the point of having your input?
If you are offering some solutions and show some respect for people's ideas then, by all means, post here but if all your intent is is to be rude and yell the loudest then go somewhere else to rant.
Make a point by using more than one sentence and tell people why you believe what you think will work to solve the issues the entire globe faces.
What exactly is your solution to what we are facing today? It seems like all the old systems lead us nowhere today so we need to find solutions, somehow. What are your solutions to what this country is facing?
the solution is free markets & small government. Although you people believe the opposite & that's why it's a clouded discussion for you. The dicussion is clear as day for me.
I'm against free speech, I think OWS needs to charge a 5 cents a comment and 1.00 a post to non certified OWS members to raise money for awareness.
I live in a garden made of stone, Can you see my new home Argue from this side of life Silent answers back as in the night
We need more than one main OWS site run by different people, quite frankly.
Wish there was one where I could post my real thoughts.
I've got a laundry list of suggestions. I've been away from my "haunts" for a while ... I'm not sure how tied everyone is with ... ahem ... other places which I'm /b/ound by a set of rules to not name.
Starting with the cities wanted OWS out before DEC31st for the New Years celebrations.
If everyone wants to make a statement vs greed and insane profiteering - a golden worldwide opportunity is just days away.
Seize it.
thank you! agreed!
Don't worry the government will do it.
See http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-there-another-forum-thats-serious-about-discuss/
I am now Rico at http://www.themultitude.org/forum/ . They moderate the trolls, have 'report' buttons for improper posts, and provide the ability to 'ignore' people who are operating within rules but who consistently derail discussion by spamming. The arguments there are simply of higher quality than here, and the organization by topic works a lot better than a streaming list of push-down posts.
Not ows forum but the site that banned me and threaten to arrest me for something I did not do have, have increase the challenge for the impostor and any troll. So there might be a chance that by sending the trolls to that site there would be a chance to clear my name.
Sorry about the wall of text [b]short version:[/b] In another site an impostor took control of account and did stuff that would get me banned with threats of arrest. Possibly if we send the trolls to that site it would be a chance to clear my name.
What we need is OWS to develop both a theory and a practice as to how to deal with elements hostile towards its goals, ideals and memberships. As soon as these two things develop, trolls won't be able to disable this forum, and in the same way, real life infiltrators won't be able to manipulate the GAs. It is not a specific problem of this forum, but a general theoretical issue.
Imagine OWS as a person. S/he is a guy/gal I would gladly trust my (theoretical) children for a day while I have other things to be attend to. Because s/he is basically good, s/he will never harm them, is ready to help them even if they become sick, and they will only learn good things from him/her while having good fun. On the other hand, I wouldn't trust my whole society to them - yet. Because s/he is not prepared yet to deal with all the dangerous things that can harm a society.
There are dumb people out there that won't understand our common interests and are ready to act against them for short-term personal gains. There are unstable people who happen to do outrageously stupid things under pressure - and sorely regret it when it's too late. Worse yet, there are psychopaths that thrive on other peoples' suffering and are ready to perpetuate that. I do not speak about Internet trolls who come to waste their time on writing shit about OWS - I speak about real people out there. Some of them lead multinational corporations and countries, and some of them do life in prison, and some others are already released, and yet others are preparing to get elected to office. The thing is, OWS has the noble idea of consensus, cooperation and participation; but the above types of people won't consent (maybe they feign consent so as to infiltrate and sabotage) and cannot be cooperated with nor participate without serious harm to the non-psychopaths, because that is the nature of psychopathy. Dumb people may smarten up if educated properly, but until then... and psychopaths never ever become "normal".
So OWS needs to realize that some people cannot be cooperated with, and needs to filter these out of participation. It needs an immune system. Even the founding father of non-violence, Gandhi had an immune system, that tormented and killed billions of harmful bacteria every day. If he was to stop his immune system in accordance with the religious principle of ahimsa he tried to strictly follow, he would have died of common cold.
Above hyperbole was not to advocate violent solutions to this problem (although I am not as committed to non-violence that many of the truly noble OWS folks here) - it is not [i]that[/i] urgent, and we can find much juster and more peaceful methods for that. But we need something that was often frowned upon. Some form of social control, and together with it, a certain inequality - those who are trusted vs. those who are not. Before we can search for practical solutions, we should at least theoretically accept such proposition.
One nice thing about having to constantly crate new log-ins is that you can go back and really manipulate the like unlike system. All of my old posts almost have a positive ranking now.
Oh you silly roody-poo
Ugh more trolls!
I think trolls are like members of congress.
They divert the attention of the debate from its intended purpose or the betterment of the people (99%) so that all effort is now devoted to responding/reacting to the troll.
Example: The US government is Trillions of dollars in debt.
Congress members (trolls) blame each other for wasteful spending.
Congress refuses to address the problem of spending more than they take-in.
Solution:
Ask every candidate for and member of congress to sign a pledge to vote for a balanced budget amendment in 2012. “The Federal Government will not spend more money than it collects in taxes during any fiscal year.”
The voting public who elect congress then needs to hold them responsible to ACT on their pledge. No action, no vote.
This tracking and reporting sounds like a great task for OWS (non trolls) to document and provide to the 99%. It would be a massive task to stay focused on without letting the trolls divert the attention and/or message to peripheral topics.
Could you vote for a member of congress that is willing to vote for a balanced budget amendment but supports or does not support, depending on your position, a women’s right to chose to have an abortion?
What would you do? Can you focus on solving one problem at a time, like the debt? Or will you be sucked in by the trolls whose main purpose is to divert your attention from the primary focus?
You will have to pick your priority.
Responsible citizenship sure sucks when you are forced to make decisions like this.
Good Luck.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-i-like-trolls/
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I agree with you, and don't let the door hit you in the ass...
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LMAO. Gotta luv it. Everybody is calling everybody a troll and nobody knows the difference
Respect the 1st Amendment Rights...
....and go get a job
Hey buddy - conservative here ... and also someone who sees what's going on. I'm trying to control myself - but I've read enough of your idiocy to see you need a proper tongue-lashing.
Listen moron, the reason these people are complaining is because we've got an army of old geezers who are so irresponsible, so ignorant, so idiotic - that they are unable to retire. With your arrogant attitude and APPARENT OBLIVIOUSNESS TO OUR CURRENT ECONOMY - you're a "baby boomer" I assume. People like you - are clogging our systems. Why don't you do what you should be doing and retire? OH WAIT, you spent all your money and blew it all on home improvement, new cars, other idiocy.
I'm not here to appease the likes of you ... I AM the likes of you. Tea party makes me sick. The people trying to undermine a massive movement of citizenry - absolutely broken by a 10 year long DEPRESSION reminds me of my own family.
My own family - who in 1776 supported the disgruntled people who had the spine to STAND UP for their rights, stand up against greed and tyranny. Something some turn-of-the-century narrow minded idiot like yourself would never understand.
With OWS - I see our founding fathers. I see what our nation stands for. I also see the same people who are raping our nation - trying to undermine the movement.
Pull your old geezer head out of that orifice and see some light, fool. Not enough jobs to go around because of crap like you. If you worked for my company - I'd have you CANNED - so you could learn how the current jobs market is.
[ Sorry OWS guys. ; ) People in my own ideology who act like this fool disgust me. I can't help it. ]
Very nice hateful comment. I'm a baby boomer and I'm only 50 yrs old. So now we see that OWS discriminates against the elderly. You would do evil to someone to try and make your point. You're a sad pathetic person and definitely not a conservative. Poser.
typical communist behavior. censor you critics.
typical ad hominum attack...call someone a communist in order to win an argument by knee-jerk guilt by association tactic.
ok - your not a communist - you just want to censor speech. fair enough.
Still not quite right...can't you resist the urge to mischaracterize another's position?
The post is about censoring speech. Silencing your critics. thats what people do when they are losing the argument. Congratulations - you win lol!
So I've censored you because I'm loosing a non-existing arguement? Do you need attention?
I am not censored just yet - but that is what the post is about - censoring OWS critics. that tells me you cant take the criticism and like all fascists you need to stifle any opposition.
I really can't make any sense of your rant, throwing accusations around, terms that are meaningless in this context, and making a pointless point. I know you must feel the urgent need to be heard, but your not making sense. You're like a kid who hasn't nearly mastered the basics of language comprehension and communication...utterly unintelligible.
"We need a NEW site that silences trolls" = censorship. what dont YOU understand? justica below has the right idea.
yes, it does...and with every right. Censorship is good, if it means isolating the pariah from the conversation of polite society. The concept of censorship applies to government policy and free speech...a civil right; but trolls are viceous infiltrators, subversives that have no such right in the company of those with a declared purpose and standard of discourse. I have no problem censoring psychopaths, sociopaths and vulgar, aggressive bottom feeders, so I support the motion, escept we don't need a NEW sight, just clean this one up so we can get about important business among those who cherish Humane Values, discluding abusers of the same. That's all...I'll say no more. Ventilate if you wish, but your wasting your breath.
spoken like a true totalitarian. thank you for exposing yourself.
you either haven't a clue what you are talking about (totalitarianism only applies to forms of governments, not reasonably held beliefs about what to do with unwanted, abusive guests in one's company), or merely begging for attention...either way, the only exposing going on is your distortion and childish whining. You have no self-awareness of how rediculous you sound and are acting like the troll this forum can so well do without. Yes, I'd give you the boot.
again with the censorship hahaha!
I think this is just another TROLL posting to give all the other trolls something to do.
This guy knows what he is talking about.
'that silences trolls'
censorship, eh? Are we going communist that quickly? I thought there may still be some hope...
OWS needs to be more concerned about the image it is projecting to the world and the spirit it is cultivating among members on this site, less concerned about the accusations coming from those who insist on the right to be disruptive, abusive, vulgar.
To date, allowing incivility and distraction on this forum has served mostly to turn interested and inquisitive people off to participating meaningfully as they have to wade through and be provoked by the inhumanity of the brutal and obnoxious who parade about here, obviously insensate to meaningful dialogue and the kind of community so dearly lacking in America on the important topic of Corporatism and Political corruption. It's not so difficult, and certainly a defensible position, to lay down the Principle of Civil Discourse and rightly to ban offenders after of few clear examples of their animosity.