Forum Post: We Have To Play Their Game To Win
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 24, 2011, 3:53 a.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic
(5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
You have a group of people playing a game with a ball. You don't like the game but you wish to play. You could choose not to play by their rules but then you will just be forced to leave the game. So the only option is to play the game by their rules. Get good at it and beat them at their own game. Then as the winner you may be able to call a new game of your choosing.
The problem has NEVER been the people playing the game. AND this game is not localised to America.
The game itself is the problem.
The game ENSURES there will always be SOMEONE out there playing, just like they always have been, and just like they are.
Here's a way, not to change the rules of the game, but to change the whole game.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Yourtopia-your-official-final-beggining/121659664613545?sk=wall
The Golden Rule: Those with the gold, make the rules.
The "rules" prevent change. The "rules" prevent a level playing field. The "rules" apply the rule of law selectively.
We must work within and outside of the system to create the change we want to see.
We have more numbers. We need more people on our side. When we have almost everyone and we still lose, then we know we have fascism. No one will tolerate fascism.
+10
Thank you for your post.
I've suggested as much many times, doesn't seem to resonate well though. Too many want to wipe away everything and start from scratch.
Yeah, I get positive and negative responses to the idea. I'm going to start something new by spring. What do you think of the Truth Party?
I prefer to be serious about this one American one vote democracy thing rather than simplistically throwing another mob rule party.
The parties fear Independent voters because they can't control or predict how Independents will think about the issues or vote. Independents, by definition, are not controlled by the billions of duopoly dollars that Wall Street gives the two dominance parties.
I would love to see every OWS action and rally be used by politically minded OWS people to register voters. The parties and Wall Street laugh at OWS rallies because they do not see OWS participating in the political process in any meaningful way that could threaten their hegemony.
the real hidden power for us to exploit, I believe, is a combination of Independent strategic voting where we use the rules of voting and ballot access with strategy the way the parties do. And combine this with finding a few people who we can concentrate support for across the nation. Using the Write-In option in the voting booth that effectively by-passes the ballot access restrictions that the two parties put in place to prevent third parties and Independents from even getting on the ballot.
I firmly believe that we can liberate American democracy from the the two dominance parties and their Wall Street duopoly dollars.
Nice comment. I fully agree
I think this guy would have been a good candidate:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-sort-of-leader-we-could-embrace-i-think/
Bobby Kennedy was everything people think is brother, JFK was but really wasn't.
Yes, we absolutely need to find people of this mold and draft them, if need be, to the highest offices of this nation.
Third parties don't have much of a track record. I suppose they need to begin at a local level and build. Ross Perot came close, but had just a little too much crazy in him. I've been for recruiting new people to run in primaries and just co-opt an existing party. Even near misses could get some incumbents scared enough to make some god changes.
Its not that third parties don't have track records. Its that the two dominance parties have colluded for a hundred years to rig the system against them.
I'm not much on conspiracy theories, no collusion could work if they didn't somehow convince voters. Both the Democrat and Republican parties were at one time new though so there is always a chance for a third party to gain a foothold and grow.
I have a personal antipathy toward the concept of political parties.
SEE: George Washington: "Let me now take a more comprehensive view, & warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the Spirit of Party, generally." http://home.ptd.net/~aahpat/aandc/gw.htm
Honest parties are possible but I think will always devolve into personality and power corruption. They are basically just organized mobs brought together to over-power the one person one vote democratic system.
I have been an Independent for nearly twenty years and have seen how this scares the leadership of the parties and their Wall Street masters. And the Independent options is the fastest growing option in the political system. Anything that discomfits the two parties and their pay-masters on Wall Street has to be good.
History Lesson: Ross Perot attempted to "play by their rules" in the early 1990's. His movement was called United We Stand America, and it was a Citizen Action Organization. It was a lot like the OWS movement in many ways.
Even though Ross is a billionaire businessman, he was keenly aware of the corrupt influences of the lobbyist. He fought to remove political action committees or PACS from government. He fought against NAFTA and the outsourcing of America's manufacturing jobs. He proclaimed that outsourcing would destroy the American economy. He was adamant about the federal deficit, and often referred to it as "some crazy old aunt that lived in the basement", and that no one wanted acknowledge it was there.
He ultimately formed his third party (UWSA) and spent over 12 million dollars of his own money to campaign. He ran for President of the United States, and one point led in the polls at 39% over the candidates. He did very well in the debates, and had many followers. Ultimately, he was discredited by the very lobbyist that he wanted to eliminate. They spent millions in campaigns targeting his credibility, and were successful in that endeavor.
Almost every single thing that Ross preached against almost two decades ago has become reality today... from the deficit... to the outsourcing... and finally to the corruption and negative influence of the lobbyist!
Today's OWS movement reminds me a lot of that time in history. Maybe, a third party solution could eventually be attempted again. I'm sure the same thing would happen again in terms of the Lobbyist and Corporations opposing it, and throwing money around in effort to eliminate it.
Ross Perot was a rich old right-wing white man who was trying to buy the elections because he hated the taxes he had to pay.
Much different from a social justice movement like OWS.
Hi. I guess I'm the villian. I was born in small town in Utah in 1952, I got a second rate primary education, I went to college (worked two to three low level jobs to pay my way through), started my first job working for $2.10/hour (with a college degree in mathematics). I saved, got into graduate school (worked 1 or two jobs to pay my way), got out worked for the Univ. of Utah for 30 years, saved like crazy. Then started a medical device company, made some money, started a brewpub, made some money, now after working 100 hour weeks off and on for 15 years I passed into the "evil" group of Americans. I now provide over 320 jobs, with health insurance, 401(k)s that I also match, bonus programs and other benefits. But I'm in the 1%, and I'm the bad guy. Weird that after working so hard, providing so many jobs (and by the way I didn't down size during the meltdown, didn't lower salaries, didn't decrease benefits) that someone comes along makes a decision that I'm the bad guy.... I need to be punished for what I've done.... Did anyone actually interview me? Or is there a simple minded assumption that anyone who is in the 1% is responsible for the mess our country is in? I don't think people like me are the problem... in fact I think people like me are the solution... and keeping the path open for people like me is very important so that the solution/s are found...
the 99% is just to point out income inequality. Some people do take it or use it the wrong way. It bothers me as well.
Our actual problem is with most of the .000000001%.
meh
Are you talking about obama?
A rigged game cannot be won.
No...I just take the fuck'in ball...and that is what is likely to happen.
And how exactly do you plan on getting on the playing field? Their playing field is expensive.
Word of mouth and the sharing of knowledge and truth. Similar to how OWS spread from New York to my city in Omaha Nebraska.
That's right! Absolutely! Just this and trying to do. But, look, something no support. Maybe, Nardialog - is bad name? Let us all together - to find another. For me the main thing that would, the way was clear.
How about using the rules against the others?
or
It is a big game of nomic when they get to change the roles and you don't.
"The Game" is rigged.
Time for a new sport I like to call: "Shaming Conservatives"
http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/what-conservatism-really-means/
Shame the democrats too. Obama and NATO supported terrorist takeover of Libya. He's basically George W Obama when it comes to war.
Agreed.
Reps and Dems are playing a shell game with us.
They are both for the rich and neither of them can be trusted.
Want democracy back?
Vote Green, Socialist or Communist.
A vote for Reps OR Dems is a vote for Wall St.
What about Ron Lawl?
Right.
So the trick is a new game plan. Finding different ways to swing at the ball other than the stilted tortured stance that the people controlling the game dictate so that we can score too. Find new ways to throw the ball so that they can't hit it. Put fresh young faces on the field against their tired old careerists who have been there forever based only on the merits of their celebrity.
I find our elected officials incompetent to govern. They need some incentive that will mean something to them instead of putting funds at risk that will cause harm to those persons and institutions who can least afford such loss. I suggest that these officials’ pay and/or benefits be cut if and/or when they fail to do their job. As it is, party “a” threatens to harm parties “”d” through “z” if parties “b” and “c” can’t come to an agreement. It makes no sense whatsoever to threaten Congress with cuts that will not have any impact on them directly. Our Constitution establishes the type of government we are to have. We do not need to establish any “sub” groups within these institutions. They are all responsible collectively to govern and if/when they fail to do so they are all liable collectively. The “carrot and stick” method only works when the carrot or stick is guaranteed to the same one. These officials have received their carrot upon being elected as they shall receive full pay and full benefits for the rest of their life even if they only serve one term. I say put all options “on the table” including their lifetime pay and benefits. I’m of the position that such a “stick” would cause these officials to get their head out of the clouds and their feet on the ground.
How about we play a different game. The one the natives were playing before we showed up. All of us work together for the good of the group. Any outsider that makes a demand (like a bank or a tax collector) gets chased out of town. Everyone who is healthy works. The sick are taken care of by the community. The old people watch the children while the young work. We help each other build homes, and when a home becomes empty someone else moves in. If another community tries to take land or resources from the community we fight, or find a way to share. People have lived this way for thousands of years. It does not preclude the use of technology. It just requires us to make currency a local thing or at least to have it not be a private business.
This argument is invalid. How many people have tried to play by the rules so far? And how many of them succeeded in fixing the corruption? None. Why? Because you have to be corrupt to begin with in order to get into any REAL position of power. The system is fucking rigged. Why can't you see that? And more importantly, the world is going down the shitter at 1000 MPH. We don't have time to send people through political science courses and work their way up into positions of power. We DON'T have the time! We have to act NOW!
we occupy their playing field, so they can't play! they have no choice but to play by our rules-- and if they don't like it then they can get the fuck out of our world
Only works if most of the spectators agree with you. There are still a lot of people that don't feel comfortable throwing out the entire system. It's easy to tell, when you're repeatedly thrown off the field (and come back to continue the battle), look at who they are cheering.
Through our vote and our dollar we have not only been playing the game, we have been making the RULES!
Complacency is how the game became corrupt and cheated so THEY can win.
Don't vote Obama, and don't vote for any GOP backed candidate. They are all war mongers and will do what the money masters want.
The Obama administration and NATO supported terrorists and Al Qaeda in the takeover of Libya.
This guy presents a bunch of facts about it in congress http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G0pUEU603Q&list=FLEwSllwonAZBCc7W3e27_dQ&index=4&feature=plpp_video
From Bush to Obama it's still the same war criminal
Wait? there is only one option? Then why even use the word 'option'?
Semantics?
doubleplusthink?
Someone posted this on our local Occupy Facebook page. I thought it was an awesome post.
No, we don't.
BTW, your handle: 'TrevorMnemonic' is appropriate for a crypto-fascist member of the 'Nova Mob' such as yourself.