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Forum Post: We have the movement, so what's the solution?

Posted 2 years ago on Sept. 21, 2011, 11:30 a.m. EST by thecarbonstandard (10) from Columbus, OH
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

So, we're protesting against corruption. I haven't read about what the solution is yet. I know there is one, I know changes can be made, but does anyone know how we're going to go about making those changes? They say "kids say the darndest things", some of those things that they say sounds impossible, some ideas though are possible, difficult, but possible. When I was little I imagined the perfect world was a world without money. I still believe this today. Money is what made the 1% corrupt, money causes so many marriages to fail, and so many people to struggle everyday. The government should realize the when people have to ask "but wait, if i get a job i need a car. but i can't get a car until i get a job." That is just one of many situations we go through to live. If we have to ask such questions like that then we aren't living, america isn't free, we are SURVIVING. I propose that we throw out the idea of money, have everyone work equally in order to benefit the whole country and not just their own wallets. That is everyone's motivation now, to fill their wallets.We need to become one, country motivated. Motivated to move as a whole forward. I realize that this is not completely ideal but, what my plan would do is put an end to the class system. As long as we all come together to create a way to eradicate the classes, no matter how we go about doing it, we can change the way we live as we know it. Use racism as an example, people protested and made movements to break that barrier. Racism isn't completely gone, yet. Time will heal the damage that has been done, just like it took time to create that damage. Social classes separate us and as a nation, we shouldn't be divided.This goal will be hard to achieve because it seems impossible. Lets come together to face the seemingly impossible and change the horror we live in daily.

46 Comments

46 Comments


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[-] 2 points by PyROphantasie (5) from San Francisco, CA 2 years ago

One Demand: PUBLICLY FUNDED ELECTIONS!!!

[-] 2 points by Trastorillo (4) from Barcelona, CT 2 years ago

Well, ive being involved in 15m from spain, i can tell u. Solution comes from. Patience making ur own ideas understandable for Everyone. Even the ones that can not read. Remember. Avoid prejudges, from more anarchist to more posh and viceverse. Let everyone have the chance to speak. Avoid political speaches, we r developing a new concept together so old political concepts are just a false friend. Go out of thhe square and ask the people about their own thoughts. Be vissible. Friendly. Not violent. People on Assembly dinamization teams must b completly neutral during their duty. The assembly and organicers must just b a tool for the rest to manage the information properly, never a ideology leader. Never think, "s/he is wrong", think where can we find the consense. Be aware of manipulation from hiden police, political parties or the most dangerous. OUR OWN EGO. Be there for the others to make avaryone welcome. And after that, i guess we all toghether can find the answer to the question. TRUST THE PEOPLE!!!!!

PD: whish i could b there to help.......

[-] 1 points by lollardy (9) from Nashville, TN 2 years ago

thank you you have a lot of great advice

[-] 1 points by Trastorillo (4) from Barcelona, CT 2 years ago

Whatever u need guys. Thets being huge!!!!

[-] 1 points by stealth (28) from Jersey City, NJ 2 years ago

Solution is a long list:

  1. Jail the bankster so they stop hurting people.
  2. End the Fed, Federal Reserver is a tool for JP Morgan, key players are from JP Morgan
  3. Reverse Richard Nixon's strategy, go back to Gold Standard. read www.rt.com Max Keiser report
  4. Break up banks like they break up the Bells into baby mini Bell company, so no more too big to fail
  5. Actually , even better, government nationalize the banks, so that government a non-profit organization would not put greed ahead of policy.
  6. Use a portion of the bank money to create a "Growth Engine" like in the 80s you have computer and internet as "Growth Engine", the new growth engine would be for the US government buy up the car company, make regulation on making hybrid cars and electric cars , innovate that growth engine.
  7. Its about time to cut the budget, yes cut the budget on Defense spending.. lockhead martin, rockwell international, lawrence livermore
  8. NO MORE SHORT TERM TRADING ON STOCK MARKET

  9. Bail Out Student Loans

  10. Ban all lobbyist , no more corporate lobbyist.

  11. The soldiers should be builiding houses for homeless, not waste their life on war contractors.

gosh , the list could go on an on.

This would make you look smart during an interview, so be prepared.

[-] 1 points by DiggyDoug5 (5) 2 years ago

I got a simple solution... If you doesn't benefit the mass's it's not okay.

The execution of this solution will involve a lot of regulation. The government and corporations both need to be heavily regulated. As a collective group we need to determine the appropriate regulations and generate a new economic constitution.

[-] 0 points by TuHyFNTm (12) 2 years ago

The easiest way to regulate government is to cut it down to size. Eliminate bureaucrats and there positions of petty power.

[-] 0 points by DiggyDoug5 (5) 2 years ago

I agree. I say... do away with the federal domestic level completely! Allow states or even cities to govern them selves. The closer to the people the better.

[-] 1 points by OskiTerra (4) from Duluth, GA 2 years ago

We need to do away with the federal reserve entirely and put inlace preventative measures from it coming back. Our country was based on getting away from such a system and many of our early presidents and political leaders tried to make sure everyone understood that to bring back such a system would be the enslavement of the American populace.

Similarly, banks need to be redrawn from scratch. They have developed into extortion and blatant monetary fraud that is barely, and in some cases not at all, legal anyway.

Aside from that, I feel we need to reinvent our entire monetary system and how it works. I do not have an answer for what we should replace it with or how we should modify it, but it definitely needs a great deal of work.

[-] 1 points by thecarbonstandard (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

Thats what im really trying to say! You summed it up, thanks :)

[-] 1 points by UncleSamIAm (2) from San Jose, CA 2 years ago

Spread the word---Washington-Corporate Cronyism has stolen the Future of America's Youth!!!! The American People demand that their will be heard by their elected officials!!!! The American People want their Govt and Future Back!!!! Spread it to Washington!!! East Coast to West Coast and everywhere In Between!!!! LOVE TO AMERICA!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by UncleSamIAm (2) from San Jose, CA 2 years ago

Spread the word---Washington-Corporate Cronyism has stolen the Future of America's Youth!!!! The American People demand that their will be heard by their elected officials!!!! The American People want their Govt and Future Back!!!! Spread it to Washington!!! East Coast to West Coast and everywhere In Between!!!! LOVE TO AMERICA!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by harmonyistheword (4) 2 years ago

we need to change who makes the laws. maybe a law that allows anyone to propose laws and run public voting for those laws? this would be easy using the internet as tool. there is too much that needs to change to be content with only 1 demand or solution. we need to give the power back to the people so that we can build the world we want not the world we're told we need. that way we can act in multiple fields, human rights, animal rights, and end all the oppression caused by the 1% enforced "legally" through their corporations and payed-off policy makers. there are plenty of intelligent people out there who could propose coherent laws/changes worthy of the support of the majority of the world. if the people could get this to be instituted all over the world we could truly start building a sustainable harmonic future.

[-] 1 points by thecarbonstandard (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

I wasn't even thinking that far ahead but I agree with your point, "there is too much that needs to change to be content with only 1 demand or solution." Yes, there needs to be a huge amount of changes. I think most people are looking at the system we have right now and trying to figure out how to change it. I just went out on a limb and gave an extreme proposal, and I'm so glad people are commenting back because this is how it starts, this is how one idea is taken and molded into action that is stable.

[-] 1 points by harmonyistheword (4) 2 years ago

if we construct a system where anyone can propose those changes than we are no longer in the hands of the politicians, and we will truly have power.

[-] 1 points by thecarbonstandard (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

America will be the way it was supposed to be. "Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth." -Abraham Lincoln. I hope we can get that far, we have to because we have to make things right.

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 2 years ago

take control of your workplace and produce goods for the needy instead of profit for the owners. private property is the bane of mankind, money is its form and workers are its slaves.

[-] 1 points by Burntsienna (4) 2 years ago

I don’t think getting rid of money, as idealistic as it may sound, is a realistic goal to shoot for. Trying to get money out of the system to go back to a bartering system seems only realistic if there was an actual global movement to push for the end of a monetary system. Perhaps I am naïve but I am not aware of any country that survives primarily off of bartering, even in third world countries, money speaks to those who have it. There have been idea’s about creating about a community monetary system that protects people locally without having to rely on money printed from the US mint. But that in and of itself is only locally sustaining and without a large community effort may not. Aside from that, you also run into an issue of yes while you can barter and trade locally, things like paying a mortgage, I doubt the likes of Bank of America for example would accept a nontraditional currency or perhaps a bag of maize to pay them. Since money or the idea of using money to pay for items has been around for centuries it’s definitely not going away any time soon. In light of that, I would like to see more focus on changing existing laws and institutional practices that can be realistically changed for the betterment of the people in the US.

  1. Citizen’s United – corporations are not people

  2. Patriot Act - should be repealed as it is invasive of privacy on many different levels

  3. Banking laws – more regulation and not deregulation .

  4. Reparations from banks and the automotive industry to the people of the United States – Oh they MUST PAY US BACK

  5. Getting America to finally sign the Kyoto Treaty – we need to regulate companies that are polluting our earth – no excuses

  6. Lobbying – change the way or even ban or limit lobbying and special interest groups

  7. Change term limits for senators and congressman – if the president has 4-8 years so should senators who have been in congress for a long time screwing things up. No new ideas just ingrained corruptness. McCain, for example, has been a congressman since I was born, he definitely has no new ideas and hasn’t helped change anything and I doubt 3-4 years or however many more years he will change anything, especially from raking in the capital to not do anything to help change things for the people of the country. Not saying that he specifically hasn’t done anything in the interest of the masses, just I am sure most people in that position do more to help corporations who by them out to do their bidding. Limitations on terms could possibly help curb corruption of political figures. IN THEORY!!

  8. Would love to see a law that prohibits people from big corporate companies running for office. There is an obvious problem with that and businessman who run for office end up assisting in the breakdown of laws that protect consumers and make way for corporations to run a muck without having to own up to anything – IE Energy companies, agriculture, etc.

I know everyone is working hard to make their voices heard and I applaud the brave protestors and hope they really stick this out. The longer they can the more viable it will be for us as the 99% to hopefully see changes on not only our political landscape but also to the lives of the majority or people in the United States. Be brave and stand strong.

[-] 1 points by harmonyistheword (4) 2 years ago

i would like to add a law that stops presidents from getting payed for ever after they've retired (because they do, they just keep getting payed). And a law that forces companies to give their workers a more substantial proportion of their profits (american CEOs are payed in average 300-400 times more than the common worker, not to mention the profits secured by the board ahead of that).... although equal division of profits would be the ideal for me, I'd even settle for a 2:1 ratio over a 300:1 ratio.

[-] 1 points by thecarbonstandard (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

You are right, it will take global cooperation to make something like my idea to become reality. I think maybe sometime in the future something like this can be accomplished. My idea of life without the use of money was to solve only one problem, the division of classes. I don't care how it happens, I just want equality, as I'm sure everyone who struggles to survive in this country wants.

[-] 1 points by Burntsienna (4) 2 years ago

Thanks and I think a world without having to use money would be great. Going back to bartering would make people go back towards working for what's necessary to live rather than living for leisure.

i think a lot of changes that come about are because a new generation helps to build it and that is what is really wonderful about the various protests that are going on around the world. With a new generation comes a new way of thinking. In that respect too is also the creation of new proteges that carry on old idea's modified to fit a new era, if you will.

Consider families of the super wealthy and their ties to government. Those ties were formed from generations of families, good or bad, you can see examples of that in families like the Kennedy's, or the Bushes - probably most popular. While it's true in the US we don't have a monarchy, you can almost compare it to a dynastic rule because of the families influence on public affairs. How can we break that cycle to allow for a better evolution of our national affairs?

in any case, I too agree with you that equality for all would be great. With so many advancements in technology, i believe that uniting globally for change and tolerance is a lot easier. We just have to make sure governments do not take that away from us. As Trastorillo commented below, we need to start by educating people. for those on top thrive on masses that stay ignorant because they are easier to manipulate.

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 2 years ago

bartering means going back to having gold or some similar thing as money and changes nothing. let me explain: money measures the value like a mile measures length or a pound measures weight. if you keep producing value through commodity production (and thats what bartering is about - trading commodities) you keep producing money in one form or another.

[-] 1 points by Burntsienna (4) 2 years ago

i agree and understand where you are coming from Paris. Bartering doesn't mean solely that you trade in gold. The difference between a bartering system and a system based on money is pretty simple. bartering is based more so on a needs systems or limited system and money is more of an "unlimited' system.

So, hypothetically speaking, let's say we are in the 1st century BC and I need shoes. i work as a farmer. rather than giving the shoeman gold - that i may not have, i would barter chickens or perhaps corn in exchange for the shoes. Or whatever the shoeman may need or be able to use to get goods that he needs. Whatever i exchange with him, would of course have to equal the value of the exchange, but both of us are getting supplies that we need. Not saying that money isn't something that is needed. if I am bartering with someone we both get needed supplies. therefore, bartering is a means for one to survive.

With the invention of money however, money without giving any value to it, is worth nothing and is essentially meaningless. If the dollar went into the crapper than a lot of it does nothing for me. I cannot eat with worthless money neither would i be able to trade it for goods and services. therefore bartering would be in my best interest because i can exchange things for other things that i need to survive.

Since money, which has value of course allows to purchase goods and services, it therefore creates the idea of "wealth-getting" as Aristotle put it. By amassing wealth, one can afford luxuries that don't necessarily necessitate a means of survival. Unless of course in this day and age you don't have a lot of it, therefore the money you use is to survive. Money has only the value we place on it and that's about it. You can't eat it. wear it, or do much else with it except buy something with it and if there is no value on it, it is meaningless and doesn't actually contribute to my survival.

Hope that makes sense.

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 2 years ago

whatever you trade you need to have a measure of value or how are you going to exchange values? how will you say a shoe is half a chicken or 3 shoes is 1 chicken, 3 loafs ofs bread is a quarter chicken? then the chicken is the money. you cannot eat gold or do anything meaningfull with it either, still it served as money well a few thousand years for the purpose of money which is measure the value, for its inherent value quality by being a commodity. there is no difference between bartering and being based on money, money is the inherent form of measurement of value to bartering, nevermind the form it takes, be it chicken, gold, nominal value on paper or nominal value somewhere stored in a computer. if you want to get rid of money you need to abolish trading values.

[-] 1 points by Rlado (7) 2 years ago

How about no money and no bartering, since that would only be money in disguise. I heard somewhere that there used to be a word called 'dineo', which meant gifts, which later became the Spanish word 'dinero' (money). Even if this is not true, it shows you the difference between a natural economic system, and a greed based one. After all, you do not usually barter with family and friends.

[-] 1 points by Burntsienna (4) 2 years ago

Thanks Rlado! That sums it up perfectly! Thanks everyone for a wonderful discussion! :-)

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 2 years ago

i think we are both looking in the same direction now =)

[-] 1 points by BurntSienna (2) 2 years ago

Agreed Paris. :-)

[-] 1 points by petrie1130 (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

I wholeheartedly agree that a world without money is an ideal world. However, it has been thousands of years since trade and barter was commonplace and I don't see the U.S., much less the entire world, throwing out the dollar on the back of a hope that everyone works together and everything works out. I believe that a more gradual yet precise change must occur. To me, a "separation of corp. and state" would be an enormous step towards fixing the major problems of our government. Get private money out of all the facets of politics and allow the government to do its job and what's best for the majority. I'm no expert on legislation, but if it's at all possible to make a petition of sorts to present to local/state/federal governments that demands a new law be passed to ban private investments in the government, I believe it could completely reshape the landscape of our political system. Just my two cents...

@thecarbonstandard: I see that you are near Columbus. I'm a student at Ohio State and am interested in starting up some sort of organization on campus having to do with this revolution. However, I must admit that the sound of starting an organization from scratch is rather daunting. If you're capable or interested in helping, feel free to let me know.

[-] 2 points by thecarbonstandard (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

My idea is very far away from what we can accomplish right now, it's just a dream, basically, that i'd like to see something happen with, even if it's just spreading the word about it. I agree with you though that the next step to be made is separation of government and companies.

I am very interested in helping start some type of organization. I could make a facebook page for protests in the Columbus area. I was thinking that the campus would be a good place to start but, I really have no idea. All I know is the more people know, the more people join, and the more the 1% hears us.

[-] 1 points by Trastorillo (4) from Barcelona, CT 2 years ago

Besides coorporate control over goverment there is lots of corruption behaviours to b fixed. Citizen audit over the administration is hightly needed. And before that what we need is EDUCATION. Tools to make every citizen able to have an solid opinion. So e truth comes to social reality with conciousnes..

[-] 0 points by infidelgranny (1) 2 years ago

Excellent point. We can't dismantle wall street without something better in mind.

1.Forced resignation of B. Obama & immediate passage of Glass-Steagle

2.Division of ficticious from real liabilities according to Glass-Steagle standards

3.For lack of real assests remaining, issue Hamiltonian credit for national projects

4.The only bailouts will be honest bailouts for the bankrupt citites & states

5.Immediate national mobilization for construction of the NAWAPA Project

6.Engage latent labor force for subsidiary projects such as transport and nuclear(safe and far from earthquake faultlines)

7.Extend cooperation internationally to Mexico, Cananda, Russia,China and others

NAWAPA is a new concept of infrastructure. The implementation of NAWAPA means making the bold decision to solve the longterm needs of mankind for the next 50 yrs in the management of water & other presently known & new resources. It means a civilization taking its destiny into its own hands, by managing continental & characteristics instead of local ones

Want to learn more? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJLF3UBHHk

[-] 1 points by TuHyFNTm (12) 2 years ago

You sound like a globalist. Expanding 'international cooperation' is simply one world government in sheeps clothing. We need import tariffs high enough to make manufacturing in the USA profitable and worthwhile. Quit giving our wealth to international corporations under the guise of 'international cooperation'. Likewise the NAWAPA is a Government takeover. WE DO NOT NEED MORE GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER> THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOU "FRIEND"> THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT TAKE CARE OF YOUR INTERESTS> Do not be fooled by groups that think they can regulate you into a better future.

[-] 1 points by thecarbonstandard (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

Im not a globalist. Im an 18 year old highschool student who has lived by surviving with what my family could afford and now im taking care of myself and it is extremely ridiculous how much i have to pay just to exist! my family got screwed over when they sold their home. I see the effects of the corrupt government everywhere. i was made fun of my whole life for being poor, so i would like to see the class systems go, its dividing us. that's all i want, not anything more. i just want life to be good, the government could make life easier, but they are making it harder, i just want them to do their job .

[-] 0 points by infidelgranny (1) 2 years ago

Excellent point. We can't dismantle wall street without something better in mind.

1.Forced resignation of B. Obama & immediate passage of Glass-Steagle

2.Division of ficticious from real liabilities according to Glass-Steagle standards

3.For lack of real assests remaining, issue Hamiltonian credit for national projects

4.The only bailouts will be honest bailouts for the bankrupt citites & states

5.Immediate national mobilization for construction of the NAWAPA Project

6.Engage latent labor force for subsidiary projects such as transport and nuclear(safe and far from earthquake faultlines)

7.Extend cooperation internationally to Mexico, Cananda, Russia,China and others

NAWAPA is a new concept of infrastructure. The implementation of NAWAPA means making the bold decision to solve the longterm needs of mankind for the next 50 yrs in the management of water & other presently known & new resources. It means a civilization taking its destiny into its own hands, by managing continental & characteristics instead of local ones

Want to learn more? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pJLF3UBHHk

[-] 1 points by harmonyistheword (4) 2 years ago

nuclear energy is a ticking time bomb. radiation is no joke they estimate it'll take 100 years to clean the plants in japan (by cleaning they mean watering the radiation down into the ocean, a commonly shared water source). how would you like to have your core drilled out? just doesn't look right when you think about it. our actions have consequences and the earth will respond, even if not for centuries. don't take what you can't replace. nuclear power isn't safe anywhere, and the risk is just too great. our efforts need to direct people to a zero waste, sustainable future, with jobs being created in the suitable industries. (just a note on the nuclear aspect, not meant to invalidate or dispute any other part of your post)

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 2 years ago

what do we have here:

  1. bring down the democrat president
  2. stop fictious capital
  3. make fictious capital
  4. dont bailout evils
  5. do this NAWAPA stuff
  6. force jobless people to work with the dangerous stuff
  7. do this everywhere

tea party gtfo.

[-] 1 points by thecarbonstandard (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

Are you suggesting I'm a member of the Tea Party? Honestly, I'm 18, and I've heard of the Tea Party but I've never made an effort to look into what they stand for. I'd consider myself to be a liberal who just wants the class system to come down. I don't know some of the things most of these people are talking about, all I know is this movement is about not letting the 1% have power over the 99% anymore,and that to me sounds like something worth fighting for.

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 2 years ago

no im not, i was replying to infidelgranny who wants to save the supposed (by larouche followers) breakdown of this system of exploitation with reimplementing the glass steagle act to outsource business in securities from regular credit providing and savings accounting.

[-] 1 points by thecarbonstandard (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

oh, oops lol. sorry, this set up with comments is confusing

[-] 0 points by theocraft (0) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

If molecular 3d printing advances further (seems they have made advances in creating blood cells already) money will become a moot point. Any material possessions for that matter will become meaningless... ie. you could clone/print gold, paper money etc. therefore deeming it useless. The only thing left of value would be what you are able to DO, albeit a skill, trade or craft. And yes I imagine the barter system would again be commonplace, thus restoring a more meaningful lifestyle or possibly not; if you are able to just "print your own food"?

[-] 2 points by petrie1130 (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

"3D printing" is not a magical machine that produces any substance you type into it; raw materials are still needed (see law of conservation of matter).

[-] 0 points by theocraft (0) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

Not when dealing at molecular levels (see growing from substrates and cell permutations) If you can figure out sequences at sub atomic levels there may be universal substrates (anti-matter) This will allow exact reproduction of any given input sequence.

[-] 2 points by petrie1130 (10) from Columbus, OH 2 years ago

Using anti-matter to print a limitless amount of matter? ... OK.

[-] 0 points by theocraft (0) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

I suppose the universe is not expanding either? right?
I suppose growing new cells; (creating) matter is not possible either.. OK
I guess trees do not grow creating more wood too? correct?

Point is, it may be possible to "grow" other materials that we previously thought not possible.

[-] 1 points by anonrez (237) 2 years ago

This is really not the place to discuss this...but it is physically impossible to have growth that violates this principle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_matter

Basic chemistry and physics 101.