Forum Post: We Have Direct Democracy NOW, WTF!!
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 15, 2011, 6:49 p.m. EST by hchc
(3297)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
We already have it, you clowns are just too dumb to realize how to work it!
Lets vote for one of two corrupt parties!! That outta work!!
like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] hchc (Tampa, FL) 1 points 1 minute ago
The will of the people is everything, and always has been, if enough want it bad enough.
Most of the time, the majority are simply happy just going with the flow...
Exactly! ...but now we are fighting back and things are rolling within the movement. Next year there will be the convention in Philadelphia and will reach the apex in establishing our agenda for the future which includes removing as many politicians as possible and electing ours. It's a beginning but the political scene it's going to be much different from before. At least somebody, actually millions, are showing their disapproval with the present occupiers of the seats of tyranny. I like it.
We are blowing up kids around the globe in the name of democracy, and the people here refuse to participate.
[-] TheEvilFuckaire 1 points 50 minutes ago
States should not be able to usurp rights guaranteed by the constitution. Here is another example of rights we have that have been ignored. Article 4 Sections 1 and 2
Section. 1. Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Section. 2.The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
All states are required to respect the laws of other states and the people are to be governed by the least restrictive law available in any state. So if I cannot be arrested for it in one state I cannot be arrested for it in any state.
In reality our Republican system of government is only on paper Republican. We actually have a dictatorship in this country run by the Republicans and Democrats. The will of the people counts nothing.
The will of the people is everything, and always has been, if enough want it bad enough.
Most of the time, the majority are simply happy just going with the flow...
If near everyone had refused their implied consent to the government, then the government would be abolished. And so, we have a direct democracy that we use in consent for the present state of affairs.
This counterfactual reasoning rests on the guarantee that a near unanimous population has this power to change the government. But there is no such guarantee facing the military.
However, if the military refused to consent unanimously, then the government would change. Even if they were to institute a direct democracy, their power would still loom on the periphery.
People may want liberation, but the police state compels us all the way down. We should acknowledge this fact as we move forward.
OWS runs their own people. People who want to reign in the central banks, and end $$$ in politics.
If the morons in this country want to smarten up, you win. If you dont, my point was just proven.
the country is too dumb to govern itself at this point.
I'm not sure I understand. I believe our system is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. I could be wrong, but I think by direct democracy they mean something like everyone votes on every issue (sort of like a referendum) rather than sending representatives to congress to vote on bills. Every bill that now comes up in congress would instead be voted on by everyone through some mechanism (internet I guess). I imagine that could work at the level of a small town, but I don't see how it could function in a country of 300 million people.
If I am getting this wrong, please correct me. I am more of a science guy than a civics one, so if you feel the need to call me a dumb clown, well, it is probably true for this arena.
Its suppose to be a republic, but with the ease the .01% can change the rules, its really not.
That being said, if the people of this country would get off their asses, and do something about it, it would work.
But they wont. Tea- sold out to the two parties. OWS- sold out to the two parties.
No change, same parties, same stupid people.
I guess I still don't understand when you say that we do already have "direct democracy." Obviously people can influence the way Senators and congresscreatures vote on bills, but that is still an indirect, representative process. What am I missing?
The thing is, theres no such thing as direct democracy in the way that OWS thinks it should be. A) politics is a full time job, just go to an occupation, its no joke. B) People dont have the time, literally, to digest and educate on every single issue C) internet voting- if something doesnt seem right, who do you blame? How do you tally them up? Its insanity, on a lot of levels.
That being said, why not. I would say that this isnt working, but with an apathetic population, no system works.
I say we have because ulitmately, the people have all the power. It just depends if they want to flex it or not. And most dont.
I like to refer to our country as an oligarchy. Really, thats what Plato said, not me. Left unchecked, a Republic will turn into an oligarchy.
I think many people would want to get behind ending the corruption of our government and get behind campaign reform.
This movement doesn't want to get its act together to make that happen. This movement needs to lose the anarchy and direct democracy nonsense, get some real leadership and an effective organizational structure.
I guess I understand what you are saying.
We don't have direct democracy... Our country is a Republic, thank God. Direct democracy is mob rule. Which means the majority always win. Which is usually the same for a Republic, except direct democracy doesn't give a damn about minorities of whatever issue is at hand, while a Republic has steps in place to help protect minorities.
The direct democracy in place is for the .01% right now. They have been molesting the rules of the Republic for a long as time. So I would say that in theory we have a republic, but when you look at the ease and consistency with which they destroy it, its closer to democracy.
Democracy only leads to mob rule when the mob gives a shit. Which is my point. Everyone knows these candidates are all bought, but who is stepping up to offer something different?
No one. A nation of 300 million people, all sitting by while the elites choose your representatives.
actually, that would make it closer to an aristocracy. rule by the rich or wealthy.
Ya, that works. Except we all vote for the fucked up legislation through fucked up parties.
I would prefer to represent myself instead of a politician paid by the banks. You must mean we have direct democracy for the rich? That makes more sense :)
No we have it now. Its just that no one cares. If the people cared, theyd pick their people, not let the banks choose them for them.
What do you think OWS is? The people that do care are here and in the streets protesting. The others are blinded by fear and individualism, or they simply cannot attend. Banks should not be choosing in the first place. The people do vote, I agree but all the elected politicians are bought by the banks in the end.
Run your own people. If the country is ready to pull their heads outta their collective asses, you will win.
If you dont, it just proves my point.
I have been reading this board for the last few days. I came here after I saw the protest in San Francisco and saw people defecating in the streets, smoking, and using syringes.
After reading this board the only thing I can see about this movement is that there are a lot of angry people who like to curse about the rich and want some type of class warfare or socialism. I'm not impressed because there is a lot of complaining and not much doing. The tea party was able to effect change because they had ideas behind them, this seems to be a lot of immature anger.
Its already here, its just everyone is too busy doing bullshit to figure out how to work it.