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Forum Post: We have a Winner-Takes-All System. It basically means any vote for a third party is wasted.

Posted 8 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 6:30 p.m. EST by OpenSky (217)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The political game is rigged. Two parties control the entire political system, but besides rhetoric, are they really all that different? Impossibly high barriers prevent third parties from every gaining ground in the election process. Namely, the fact that we have what is called a WINNER-TAKES-ALL SYSTEM. It basically means that whichever party/candidate gets a majority of the electoral votes in a state gets all of those votes. For example, California gets 55 electoral votes. If one party gets just 28 votes (which is barely a majority), all 55 votes count to that party/candidate in the general election. This effectively means that ANY VOTE FOR A THIRD PARTY IS ALWAYS A WASTED VOTE. What we need is proportional representation (used in Europe). This would allow for a multitude of parties to flourish, effectively breaking the status quo of our stagnant political system and allowing for real, significant change. Additionally, a dynamic political system such as this would by its very nature SEVERELY LIMIT THE POWER CORPORATIONS HAVE OVER OUR POLITICAL PARTIES. As more factors define our election process, it gets exponentially more difficult for corporations to influence our government. Now naturally, nothing has ever been done by Congress to really institute this kind of reform, as it is obviously against the interests of the two parties to have their positions of power so radically altered. But I ask you this: How many times during an election do you vote for the LESSER OF TWO EVILS? How many times have you wanted to vote for an independent candidate, only to recoil at the prospect of a WASTED VOTE? The only way to win the game, is to change the rules! Bring about change by DEMANDING that congress institute political party reform... They say we don't have a defined goal. We do... To break the STATUS QUO. This single demand, by itself, could change everything.

18 Comments

18 Comments


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[-] 2 points by blesnick (5) 8 years ago

There's more wrong than just "winner take all". The two major parties are one party with two branches, both owned by Wall St.

See: http://www.salon.com/2011/10/11/can_ows_be_turned_into_a_democratic_party_movement/singleton

And: http://open.salon.com/blog/brucie/2011/09/26/the_dorothy_syndrome

[-] 1 points by OpenSky (217) 8 years ago

i've addressed this in my post. A proportional system could change everything

[-] 1 points by leftistperson (95) 8 years ago

A proportional system is a very good proposal.

[-] 1 points by OpenSky (217) 8 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_(United_States)

This provides some good info on the third party in the US and the barriers its faces

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 8 years ago

unless more than 51 percent of the population votes.

as soon as the 99 percent wake up... they can take all elections with ease.

we need a new third party.


http://www.oligarchyusa.com/

http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5390832/some-fascinating-stats-about-our-corporate-oligarchy

http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/category/21st-century-challenges/ethicsandeconomics/

According to a 2008 article by David Rothkopf, the world’s 1,100 richest people have almost twice the assets of the poorest 2.5 billion (Rothkopf, 2008). Aside from the obvious problem – that this global elite has their hands in everything from politics to financial institutions – …

http://theprogressiveplaybook.com/2011/09/occupywallstreet-an-american-tahrir/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ght22PnCXy0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/wisconsin-is-ground-zero_b_825321.html

http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?tag=global-corporate-oligarchy

To the extent that we, the people, are removed from control over our lands, marketplaces, central banks, and media we are no longer empowered. In practice, those few who do control the land, central bank, media and "free market" are the real rulers of our corrupt and declining "democracy."

Due to propaganda from a corporate-owned and edited media we are kept from knowing, much less debating, the nature of our system. Due to a central bank owned by bankers, media owned by a few global concerns, and trade regime controlled by global corporations (i.e., one designed to remove the people from control over their markets and environments) the vast majority have become little more than latter-day serfs and neo-slaves upon a corporate latifundia.

To restore a semblance of effective democracy and true freedom Americans, and people around the world, need to re-educate themselves as to the true nature of their political and economic systems. Toward this end, OligarchyUSA.com is dedicated to providing old and new information, books, links, reform ideas and debates not easily found or accessed today in establishment media.

OligarchyUSA.com is but one more site and sign of the times as ground-up counter-revolutions arise around the world... all in response to a forced and freedomless globalization of a ruling global elite perfecting their top-down plutocracy and revolutions of the rich against the poor. In short, democracy is no longer effective today. For this reason, it is toward a restoration of truly effective and representative democracies, and natural freedom, that this site is dedicated.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/organizational-map-2/

[-] 1 points by OpenSky (217) 8 years ago

but even then... Three parties? There are more than three different types of people in the world. We need a dynamic and fluid political system.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 8 years ago

er. i am all in favor of libertarians and greens having continued political presence. Dems and republicans... they both need to be destroyed completely- no more of those parties at all.

we do need assorted structure in place to support a multi party system. the only way to do that is get a third party into office to change the laws.

[-] 1 points by OpenSky (217) 8 years ago

which, believe it or not, would be much harder than getting a constitutional amendment in my opinion (considering all of the barriers in place). And worse, with the current winner-takes-all system, as I've stated above, voting for a third party is actually a negative (which is a big reason why the Tea Party doesn't really have its own candidates). This movement has been classified as leftist. By fragmenting the "left" into two parties, we are just really allowing the right to take complete control. Because, I can guarantee you that not everyone (though many) will vote OWS (for reasons completely unrelated to our message). Most people have no idea how the political system works. If they realize what is truly happening with their votes, there could be BIG quakes in the media and political world.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 8 years ago

first off, you discount a viral information revolution, which most certainly could get 55 or 75 percent of the population to vote third party. second this is not a leftist movement no matter how its classed.

thirdly, we don't have any better options- voting for dem or rep is voting for our civilization to fail catastrophically.

we can easily take all the offices in the USA if we awaken the people to the simple truths.

i have outlined the important details. start looking it over.

i don't post these links for my own benefit.

i will repost again, since its clear you didn't look.


http://www.oligarchyusa.com/

http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5390832/some-fascinating-stats-about-our-corporate-oligarchy

http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/category/21st-century-challenges/ethicsandeconomics/

According to a 2008 article by David Rothkopf, the world’s 1,100 richest people have almost twice the assets of the poorest 2.5 billion (Rothkopf, 2008). Aside from the obvious problem – that this global elite has their hands in everything from politics to financial institutions – …

http://theprogressiveplaybook.com/2011/09/occupywallstreet-an-american-tahrir/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ght22PnCXy0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/wisconsin-is-ground-zero_b_825321.html

http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?tag=global-corporate-oligarchy

To the extent that we, the people, are removed from control over our lands, marketplaces, central banks, and media we are no longer empowered. In practice, those few who do control the land, central bank, media and "free market" are the real rulers of our corrupt and declining "democracy."

Due to propaganda from a corporate-owned and edited media we are kept from knowing, much less debating, the nature of our system. Due to a central bank owned by bankers, media owned by a few global concerns, and trade regime controlled by global corporations (i.e., one designed to remove the people from control over their markets and environments) the vast majority have become little more than latter-day serfs and neo-slaves upon a corporate latifundia.

To restore a semblance of effective democracy and true freedom Americans, and people around the world, need to re-educate themselves as to the true nature of their political and economic systems. Toward this end, OligarchyUSA.com is dedicated to providing old and new information, books, links, reform ideas and debates not easily found or accessed today in establishment media.

OligarchyUSA.com is but one more site and sign of the times as ground-up counter-revolutions arise around the world... all in response to a forced and freedomless globalization of a ruling global elite perfecting their top-down plutocracy and revolutions of the rich against the poor. In short, democracy is no longer effective today. For this reason, it is toward a restoration of truly effective and representative democracies, and natural freedom, that this site is dedicated.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/organizational-map-2/

[-] 1 points by OpenSky (217) 8 years ago

i'm not discounting anything. We have a list of demands. I suggest that political party reform be one of them. By ignoring that you are unnecessarily making our cause much harder. Don't forget, corporations and the incumbent political parties have many tricks up their sleeves and legal gimmicks to hide behind. Take away those, and we can do even more than what's possible now

We have this great chance to make our voices heard. I mean it when I say that this could change everything

[-] 1 points by OpenSky (217) 8 years ago

and I realize you have points. And I'm all for them. But having meaningful political party reform could remedy many, many of these

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 8 years ago

i don't agree with demands. i do agree with lists of important issues. we need to work on those issues. Calling them demands is the mental equivalent of showing up for a barn raising and having tea all day.

thats not where the work stops, its just where the work starts.

[-] 1 points by OpenSky (217) 8 years ago

well the good thing about political party reform is that it provides a much more open forum for these issues to be discussed (instead of everybody fighting for a big party's ear).

[-] 1 points by GoreSorosObamaBushTreason (5) 8 years ago

Its to Destroy Ron Paul for his Third Party Run.

[-] 1 points by ComplexMissy (291) 8 years ago

I think this is a very good step to take. This article discusses similar issues: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/shaffer1.html

[-] 1 points by OpenSky (217) 8 years ago

lol glad to see you agree with me. This just seems like such an obvious step that would benefit everyone as individuals

[-] 1 points by ComplexMissy (291) 8 years ago

Yep :) we should make not voting one of the steps of this movement, I think.

[-] 0 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 8 years ago

Exactly, both parties are enemies, but we need a comprehensive strategy that implements all our demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:

http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures

Join

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.