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Forum Post: we each contribute to the reality of others: America knew this before it developed Stockholm Syndrome for WS

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 24, 2013, 8:29 p.m. EST by elf3 (2724)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Once upon a time a plumber, hairsylist, shop clerk, could earn a nice house with a white picket fence in the same town or even next door to his boss. That ended with the baby boomers. Now, unless you own rental property, have capital gains, or you're a lawyer or politician, banker, or CEO, should you expect such luxuries as the bygone American Dream replaced by the new American Aristocracy. A thought suddenly occurred to me yesterday that someday future generations will learn in school how their idiotic ancestors covered their food in poisonous chemicals and dumped their garbage all over the place and gave themselves cancer. Those who seek to keep the status quo and deny reality or science or fail to realize the fact that they contribute to the reality of others and choose to ignore these facts in place of the new American slogan "it could always be worse, or you're just negative and should consider the good things you have and that you are soley resonsible for your existence and surroundings " (when in fact many others are shaping, contributing and often controlling it) are perpetuating a propaganda that is designed to keep people from expecting upward mobility or progress; propaganda designed to INVALIDATE and subserviate the masses. Does the laborer or secretary no longer deserve to partake of the American Dream? Must they live a deranged version where until they "make something of themselves", they must live in struggle, or perhap starve, until they learn how to make themselves rich in order not to live in squalor amidst crime and noise, must expect not to get proper healthcare, proper education for their children, or not have children altogether until they are wealthy? A country for and by the rich, and the rest of us now second class citizens?

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52 Comments


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[-] 5 points by elf3 (2724) 1 year ago

baby boomers I feel the need to address something with you - your failure to acknowledge the reality and economy you have helped to create for the younger generations of this nation is appalling - and you continue to perpetuate the bold face lies with complete denial of the reality while acting like presumptuous haughty ENTITLED dicks, refusing to believe the hardships and cost of living ratio that young people now face as well as the emergence of more and more pollutants their bodies are being overloaded with all while good medical treatment has turned into fast food treatment that is as overpriced as the apartments you rent out. My American Dream is just to bid the baby boomer's reign adieu and pray you take your gas guzzling SUV's and Ugg boots and Investmentistis get rich off the backs of the younger generation, fuck everyone else greed and gadgets are good mentality with you.

Hey their 401k's go up when the stock market and housing market go up, so they don't mind if we live in the gutter.

Sorry... sometimes in politics you have to generalize.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Sal6N5OiE

[-] 3 points by agkaiser (1307) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 year ago

I was born in 1946; one of the first baby boomers. I imagine about the same % of each generation manages to see through the bullshit in their lifetimes. I was lucky. Most it seems are older before they see the light. Many of the younger ones who awaken early fall to intolerance that's springs from a weakness/arrogance that accompanies knowledge in those too immature to handle it. Like elf's agism in condemnation of a generation that contains no greater % of flawed characters than his own. None do.

One of the worst sins of people of any age is to pick a particular race, creed, ethnic variety or generation to scapegoat for all of our common problems. It's called bigotry, prejudice or racism and is as evil and destructive as greed and selfishness. Ageism doesn't impress me at all.

[-] 0 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

I can agree with you if you only accuse the baby boomer administrations (Bill Clinton's and George W. Bush's), the Congress, during their reigns, and the evil part of the 1% but I disagree with you that the baby boomers as a generation is culpable for the horrid state of affairs that we find ourselves in. Where were all the others at the time?

If anything, the baby boomers can at most be charged with negligence because they have been working hard during the halcyon days while neglecting that the government was being stolen from everyone. There were much worse circumstances during the baby boomers' years -- VietNam war and the hated draft, high inflation (more than 10% rather than the 2% these days), high unemployment (more than 9% at a time), extremely high interest rates (more than 13% rather than 0.2% at our federal reserve windows), the Cold War (25 minutes to total nuclear annihilation), the crash of 1987 (Dow Jones lost nearly one quarter of itself in a day - imagine having your retirement savings cut by one quarter in a day), etc.

Much of that is no more. We are enjoying the peace dividend of the ending of the Cold War - the unleashing of the Internet from our Department of Defense's Arpanet. Hold fast to that torch of freedom and keep your eyes on the prize(with the help of GPS, another Cold War relic with a human tragedy unleashing it). Every generation has its own gremlins. For example, the Cold War was actually much better than the hot variety(which haunted earlier generations) for sure!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sorry - I am a WWII baby boomer - and I do not agree with your castigation.

Perhaps you are speaking to a more recent "me" generation?

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2724) 1 year ago

nope speaking to yours - sorry sometimes in politics you have to generalize ... and unfortunately for you, they were powerful enough to overtake you, so now you're getting lumped in - which is why if you don't want to get lumped in you need to protest louder than the assholes among you. (To prevent getting labeled alongside them.)

[-] -1 points by agkaiser (1307) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 year ago

Are you suggesting a loyalty test, like some fascist politician from con-nation? You sound very arrogant and pretentious, like an upper middle class Tory traitor snob.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Uh huh - and you are how old? Where have you and yours been until say last year? Hell where are most of your generation now?

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2724) 1 year ago

Working, commuting, sleeping , working, dreaming of sleep, seeing the doc for some anti-depressants , working , ranting on occupy , planning a revolution involving pitchforks and knives, reading about health problems online , paying bills , reading food labels at the grocery store , reading political books and researching Wallstreet, watching documetaries , working ,planning a protest of massive proportions, losing hope, working trying to figure out how to afford anything, losing hope, having anxiety about losing job and hope, worrying nonstop that this job is it forever and thanking yours stars you have one so skipping personal days skipping lunch, worrying about parents, worrying that you're starting to need glasses ...another financial setback, working, commuting, charging gas to commute while filling up , wondering if your whole life will be spent like this living on the brink where so little really seperates you from that homeless man you passed on your way into work where one small slip can land you right there, wondering each day where the time is going , how you can find time or money to get an education when you don't know if your car is going to kick the bucket tomorrow, working, applying and getting denied for a school loan and finacial aid, uppward mobility only works when you have a cosigner or if you didn't work full time the previous year, working, wondering how older generations ever had any time to do anything let alone have kids wondering if they got outsourced and downsized every 5years like mine does, wondering if landlors charged more than a mortgage, working ( in a nutshell)

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

So kinda like me in most ways. My working life ( other then advocacy ) is over - not by choice. So I do what I can for others - I will see tomorrow one way or another - I do believe in God ( something more then what we are currently living ) I do not believe in religion. So let tomorrow come - let me face it doing the best I can. Can anyone do more? Love those who are yours to love - let them love you - know that whatever happens - you "will" deal with it.

[-] -2 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

I think elf is talking about the many baby boomers who had lifetime careers with job security (and who barely worked any overtime), full benefits including health benefits for life, fat pensions, paid up mortgages (because their wages were so high in relation to the cost of homes and other goods), they never had to take parent loans to pay for their kids to go to college, etc. My parents fall into this category. They had it all, 3 cars, second homes, etc. And, now what is left? Not a hell of a lot for the rest of us. What do most baby boomers say? (Not you, DKA, you know better.) "Young people today don't work hard enough." When in reality, young people today went to school longer, work longer hours, never see their kids, have no job security, no pensions, no health insurance, can barely afford rent, etc. etc.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (2724) 1 year ago

Thanks BW that's a bit more pc but probably better said ... don't forget won't retire until 67 now law and won't have pensions like boomers so if their gamble doesn't pan out with 401k bets if they choose to invest in WS (which I do not since I've learned to vote with my dollars) then they won't retire at all. Most young women are having fertility problems now and can't afford to have children even if they could. GMO's cause infertility in rats but human trials were never done (my generation is the test case) the epedemic has hit today's young women hard but the media is ignoring it and fertility has become a business as well there are corporate fertility centers popping up as fast as Walmarts. I also see more baby boomer women having more sets of kids than those in my generation they must not have been raised on GM corn and soy like mine was and all the young struggling people of my gen are giving them a tax write off for it. Can it be our turn yet? Can we live like adults, can we have a house and good paying job, a family and children. My gen can't afford weddings let alone rent or food. And everyday the gap of wealth between boomers and us grows wider and Iwonder....where is this heading for us? Are we the generation that will become the servant sector to the baby boomers? Will our parents generation sacrifice us for their own improvement. Will we also have to take care of them when their bubble bursts while we ourselves never even got a foothold ?? Sure feels like it from this end.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

I'm in that 67 age group and there's talk of making it 70! I was in the post office the other day on a big long line and a few of us got to talking of the irony that postal workers will be the only ones with pensions. The rest of us will be out on the street with our cans. And, I am not sure that the older folks will join us and the younger people ('cause the younger you are, the harder you have it, in my opinion) in this fight because they are too busy worrying about themselves. It was under their watch the past 30/40 years that all of this s-t went down after-all.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

elf my only good experience with a 401k ? was being able to borrow on it and make payments to myself plus interest. Only way I was ever able to have a savings account - to a certain point I made more money on my take home because of the deduction to the 401k - then I would have if I did not contribute.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (2724) 1 year ago

Your 401k is feeding monopolies that effectually are disabling entrepeneurship for average Americans you may be investing in companies that torcher animals or use slave labor, or who contribute to the presidential candidate you disagree with...who really knows where that money is going most people don't know it's confusing unless you studied finance there you go a way to improve the education system rather than unicycling and gym, how about finance 101?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I am not saying that I like 401K's - it is making people risk their savings in the wallstreet gambling houses. I would have preferred a savings account that paid interest and was not taxable and where your contributions were pre tax so that your pay check take home was not smaller. That with the ability to borrow from it at need and pay yourself ( the account ) back - rather then get a loan at interest where you pay someone else. Savings accounts have been killed to force people into the market - to see any possible earnings.

[-] 0 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

"Working hard enough" is tied to the opportunity at hand. Where there is no opportunity, no matter how "hard" one promises to work, it does not matter. I therefore feel that our society needs not apologize for taking its fair share of taxes from the 1% because it has contributed to their success. That background contribution is the reason why the U.S. has been such a sought-after place to be, especially for "run-of-the-mill" ordinary people from around the world. The U.S. has had its magic wand to transform ordinary folks to rich people (of course, it is actually the sense of infinite possibility in the minds of those folks that enables such transformation). cogito ergo sum - Rene Descartes. Add the word "rich" twice and we have a modern-day motto for the "new" immigrant to the Promised Land.

beautifulworld, the fact that your parents had had it all does not mean that you cannot achieve the "same" (or equivalent) in a different way (naturally). First of all, I do not think that 3 cars, second homes would actually be what you would be proud to have although it may still be possible for you. They are probably passe. Secondly, your circumstances are vastly different from your parents' and that in itself opens up vastly new possibilities. Nowadays technologies are widely available that were impossibilities in your parents' time. That may be your springboard to achieve whatever you desire. For example, is it possible to achieve what was desirable in your parents' life using the new means that became available recently? Can we provide job security through an abundance of work assignments obtained globally? Can we fund people's pensions through global group efforts? Can we pool our money together to help people own homes?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

You make a lot of good points, and we certainly have to be creative. But from one generation to the next here, things are vastly different. Taking the cake and then making decisions to not give the cake to the next round is immoral. Our young people are suffering.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3261) 1 year ago

Yes, I know that our young people are suffering. EVERY generation (and baby boomers included) must leave a legacy to the next that everyone can be proud of. Sometimes, circumstances may not work out quite like what a generation desires so I think in that case the legacy should still include capabilities, confidence, fortitude, and hope. I am humbled by what new technologies are available to our younger generations but using a metaphor, you may already understand that your baby boomers parents can at most function as the first stage of a multistage rocket. What height you may achieve or what destination you will reach will likely never be known or understood by your parents. I am grateful for what my parents did for me but I always knew that where I had been to they had never even dreamt of in their generation so it was only fair that I set my own destiny. It is even harder to bridge the generational gap these days so your generation may very well have to set your own destiny, too. Older generations can only offer out-of-date experiences -- can you imagine that at one time I told my parents just that but they understood?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Myself and a whole hell of a lot of my age group grew-up "losing ground" and protested about it as it was happening. I did work all of my life that would have seen my fathers generation ( WWII survivors ) living a good life - a home a car one person working outside the home and able to take a yearly vacation - those days did not last - they did not exist before my dads WWII generation and it did not survive through his work life either.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

Baby boomers are a huge age group, the older end benefited very much from a society that provided for their every need. Younger boomers, maybe not as much. I understand what you are saying, but I know many who sailed through life.

[-] 0 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

the older end benefited? define the age group.if you're talking about the 50+ age group, they worked hard for what they have.they provided for their own needs. they paid into the system.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

Bingo. "They worked hard for what they have." Other age groups have worked harder for what they don't have and never will have.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Me too ( many sailed through life ) - still happening to this day. Though life for those not sailing through has gotten more nasty - same as I experienced in my working life - more productive harder working and less successful.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

Definitely fewer are sailing through life today, and the few who are, are on speed boats. It's been a slow death to the middle class. This must be reversed.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Absolutely - what the hell good will it do the wealthy to have all of the money in the world - if no one else is able to afford to live and keep society in operation - Forget about moving forward - just keeping it operating - will end.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

It is all going to go bust very soon. We are on an unsustainable path of the greed of the few vs. the impoverishment of the masses.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Ugly crash and burn just ahead - unless we ( THE PEOPLE ) can make substantial changes starting - RIGHT NOW.

One recent sign of illness reported today - the air in salt lake city is 4 times more toxic then the normal health advisory warning of unsafe air.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

The health of the environment is a direct result of the economic system and it's lack of regulation. In many ways, environmental issues trump all others because without a healthy environment the human species will cease to exist.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Continuous Process Improvement - is a process that has never been promoted. We should be long past fossil fuel power plants and transportation - with the advances in technology - this is a no brainer. And yet - here we are staring extinction straight in the eye.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

Exactly. And, we could create jobs, good jobs that could not be outsourced to improve our infrastructure and the quality of our environment.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Absolutely

One example - it is reported that of the energy/electricity that is produced that upwards of 50% is lost in transmission ( never used - lost ). By upgrading/updating this loss could be addressed - 50% waste - think of the energy creation savings - savings to the end user.


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (12101) 1 hour ago

It would be a boon to the economy in more ways than one. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

We have the power infrastructure to replace/update

We have the sewer systems to replace/update

We have water treatment to replace/update

We have roads and bridges to replace/update

We have buildings public/private to replace/update

We have foreign countries that need the same aid/update ( rather then money that never reaches it's intended target )

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep -new efficient and green technology to implement ( as it is put in place ) old and failing and inefficient structure to be removed/recycled.

Manufacturing to create the components and a work force to tear out the old and install the new. As well as maintain and run.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21406) 1 year ago

It would be a boon to the economy in more ways than one.

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[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it"----George Carlin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY George Carlin on the American Dream

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2724) 1 year ago

yep !

[-] -3 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

carlin made a lot of money from living and succeeding in the american dream. he was just another hypocrite.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Apparently you are a fucking idiot because: a) you can't spell hypocrite b) you don't know the meaning of the word.

[-] -3 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

carlin was a hypocrite, he made a fortune by accomplishing the american dream

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

He didn't live the American Dream he lived his dream. The American dream was never to make a fortune. Perhaps your idea of the american dream is vastly distorted from what the classic American dream actually was course I would not doubt it you seem under educated and ignorant at a minimum. You probably listen to a.m. radio and think you are getting the news.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_dream

[-] -2 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

his dream was allowed to be lived because he lived in America. the american dream is to be able to do what you want, accomplish what you choose to do in life. carlin lived the american dream.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

That's not the american dream. The american dream is work hard and you will advance either through the trades, as a professional, or as a merchant. Get married once your career is under way, buy a home, have two kids, two cars, take a two week long vacations a year, have enough left over to buy a few nice things over the holidays or for birthdays, put the kids through a good school, and at the end of the day have enough to retire comfortably on and know that your kids will do even better than you did in life. That is the american dream douche bag. Not some over blown do what you want libertarian fallacy of freedom.

[-] -1 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

carlin did just that, worked hard and advanced.the rest of your rant, married, cars, kids, vacations, college, is a choice.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

why do i even waste my time with you idiots!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Can be fun to slap down an idiot? Also very thoughtful to shoot down an idiot for the benefit of others who still need to learn/grow.

[-] -1 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

because even though you people have no point to make , you keep trying.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

I have made my point.

[-] -1 points by auargent (-600) 1 year ago

and if you wear a hat, no one will see it.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Is that what you do? Pin Head. Sorry even wearing your hat you are still recognized as an idiot.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26331) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

While speaking out against the enemies of humanity and the American Dream = The PTB ya know corpoRATions that are raping the planet and are tearing societies apart.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

It is certainly far from over. Though the American Dream may be changing for that is life and instead of material wealth many people dream of a world at peace and children with something to do so to learn how to get along and hope that all the hard work is worthwhile because those children will grow up and find what is their passion to do making everyday something to happily be rather than job that sucks trying to make more money. With work of their passion they find fulfillment that money does not buy. The majority of people having less money do have some things that the richer miss out on;the feeling of being in whatever comes together and helpful hands in times of need. The money restricts many human feelings and shelters a person from the real world that is rich in feelings and other emotions that cash can not replace. People who are poor then get $ miss what they left while people with$ that lose it find much more. Equality amongst us all One People WE...

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2724) 1 year ago

Yes once it seemed we understood that we are neighbors, under one system of government. Now we have two entirely separate systems, one for the corporate American giants, and another one entirely for the common working citizen. Our so called "job creator" aka Corporate Conglomerate America is not employing people and creating jobs for us commoners - but they do have all three branches of government on their payroll. On top of that Congress and all the bureaucratic agencies they appoint, all have profit sharing - so they don't mind if they price gauge us all commoners it only benefits their bottom line to make it so.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

An entirely separate system for common working citizens great to hear this as I was not aware of it. Actually corporations and conglomerate(need no capitalization) employ a large number of people. Yes indeed the politicians are for sale so sad for them though what is worse, to get that money they have become war criminals and must be brought up on official charges. Violators again for it is criminal to make decisions into law that you will profit from and about 70% of national house-congress elected are doing just that..At the cost of innocent lives. When there are no profits they will have their share. Once they face up to wrongdoings they will be no longer entitled to any pay or funds and may have to pay. The democrats and republicans have no money because they will need to reimburse the American people for all that has been cost in this fight of parties they represent. All talk and comparison that refer to such is not upholding the office to which they were elected and has no place in making laws. Oh we understand just fine.