Forum Post: We are Very Disorganized.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 5, 2011, 12:29 a.m. EST by JeaLanka
(3)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I love this. I love what is going on. I mean no negativity. But shouldn't we be more organized? I see that a huge purpose is to air out our different perspectives and we want complete freedom to express and we all want our values met.
But we want direct, coherent action to be taken, legally and within some sort of time frame. Winter is coming and it is going to be cold out. Even if everyone keeps marching, stopping traffic and getting arrested by the hundreds, no one can do anything for us because we don't have objectives that the government can meet. The financial system cannot just be thrown out or reshaped in one quick step. Everything that we want, jobs, higher salaries, environmental protection, animal rights, etc will take time to reform. We need a group of lawyers, a council, to determine what legal steps we need to take, what we want in full detail. We need the law on our side to make changes. We can't just flip the whole system around just like that. It is very disorganized. There are so many posts, questions and comments going on. We need leadership and organization. We need to protest in more systematic ways. Getting arrested is a waste of time. We need to protest in a way that will not justify for any sort of arrest. Blocking traffic is unreasonable for people who do need to go to work. People can't just stay home, especially when the economy is tough. They need to go to work, not just the Wall St. guys, it's the other workers as well.
I think
1) We need a legal, systematic way of protesting. 2) We need better 'PR' 3) We need to run this like a Party Campaign. We need brochures to convince more people of our objectives. We need one coherent message, in banners, posters, buttons, shirts, etc. We need a list of objectives that can be done. Let's be realistic. We will not be able to dismantle everything within a week. We need to see this as an ongoing process that comes in steps. 4) I hate to say this but we need leadership, several councils. At least organization so that all of our concerns will be addressed and evaluated.
Here's the comment the media can latch onto:
"It isn't necessary that the people be organized. It is only necessary that the people, sharing a voice, be heard. It is for politics to put on a show for visual spectacle with scripts and campaign strategies. The media need only to witness our unity and to hear our voice."
The media is just looking to give this a name and a likeness to something historic that failed... like the Tea Party. The 1960's and King's marches are proof enough that this movement is on the right track... toward real change without having to be micro-managed. If we start to get too distracted with the kind of organization the media is referencing, we might as well drop to our knees and crawl rather than march.
Stay focused on the clear objectives. I see many are turning their attention toward the media giants in an attempt to "occupy". Futility will not further this movement. If we're going to derail, it's going to be by appearing fanatical, not by our leaderless/united stands.
As for forum structure... have a look at the site our brothers and sisters across the pond have launched. It's a bit more structured.
http://www.occupybritain.co.uk/
what you wish for was the end of the tea party campaign and will be the end of this one aswell if anyone listens. this is the infiltration that has been warned from. the infiltration from the good americans that want to sit at home and vote for a better prez in the ballot box. the illusion that a leader or a party helps with political demands. only pressure from the street helps, been that way with every demand ever be it vietnam war, womens rights, anything... the partys will turn to you anyways because they want you to vote for them supporting their claim to power and they will adapt their strategies to the wishes of the masses, if not what they actually do. didnt you have enough change good leader already from obama? this movement will end when you give up occupying and will return home to the life that is functioning in the system.
get shirts that have printed on them "occupy wall St." Then make them multicolored to represent each person role in each section of the camp, maybe you have 4 sections total. I was at the camp in SF today, and it was not approachable at all, they need Greeters and a welcome sign. The barriers of society are sick I think we all agree so camps must look at them and do their best to dissolve them, a welcome sign might help the homeless enclave image people see. Overall people were nice and friendly, especially Steven the camp scribe. Hard to miss the wide eyed spun kids and homeless tho. That said I still plan to help when I can. Best,
And after this you will repeat yourself in like 10 years bacause this will be a reform in same system already and it will not enough in future with more population. The main reason is capitalism here, you should fight for a revolution not for a reform.
By the way why don't you try to start an anti-capitalist movement in worldwide. There are billions of people around the world who are glad about to see americans rising. For example greeks were on streets before you, why don't you contact with them and other anti-capitalist communities around the world to organize similiar protests in same days with same ways maybe. Discuss with them, find mutual goals, speak as one. Patriotism has never been a solution. Humanism is what people need.
Occupy Wall Street is an organic movement. The General Assembly is a horizontal organization, which means that anyone and everyone can take initiative, gain consensus and take action.
I believe everyone involved recognizes this as an ongoing process. Rome was not dismantled in a day. Horizontal, consensus-based organization is an unfamiliar form of organization to most of us, it 'feels' like disorganization until you begin to understand the flow.
When you're asking for leaders, you're asking to return to the vertical hierarchal system we're all used to, the one that got us in this mess in the first place. Why put so much trust into one person, especially when it's axiomatic that power corrupts?
A group of people is so much smarter than any one person.
Trust the group process.
Stop defending so/aggressively listen and think about this feedback before spouting off horizontal vertical organic. This person has a good point
Just a quick question? have you ever been part of a truly horizontal organization of more than 100 people? If everyone's voice and opinion's are equally valid, nothing gets done. That is why the founders of this country who had experience with direct democracy in the New England colonies opted for a representative democracy. And on the power corrupts cliche....So that means that it is not the fault of the people who are "corrupted". So instead of demonizing this people we should be putting them through a 12 step program or prescribing them medication. No, the reason people are upset is because the people who have misused the power that was bestowed upon them are responsible for the actions they took. If power corrupts then there can be and have never been any good leaders. That is not the case.
I agree with you but we are not just a group of twenty. If we're talking about 99% of this country, then it's several million voices. How do we listen to each other, plan out objectives and demand for direct action when there are so many of us?
Right now we are a mirror for people to project their own platforms and ideas. We are growing by incredible numbers right now doing what we are doing, which is giving EVERYBODY a forum to speak up and act out. If we are too quick to change our model, if we choose a leader and platform from the disparate contingent in the park,we risk alienating a large group of people, we also lose the tool of individual fury and individual idealistic projection. Lets not rush to join the system with leaders and demands, that is the first step down the road to being co-opted by the establishment.
It is very inspiring that this is happening everyone's participation is needed and appreciated.
A wake up call to those who assume that the general populous will continue to feed into the system that is simultaneously sucking money, education, and freedom from them.
I do agree that some sort of cohesiveness in this effort will better serve us all. I think a handful of coherent spokespeople who have a consistent message(s) would do the cause a huge favor. Quantity of people showing up is extremely valuable and greatly appreciated and will in the end get the 1% to listen.
Quality of what is said when the 1% have to listen needs coherency.
That will come with time, right now reminding the public, Wall Street execs, and our elected officials of who is really in charge is more important.
Thank you again for all who are showing up!
I think some of those are good suggestions, but Occupy Wall Street is a by definition a decentralized movement. If those are the actions you want to take, then gain acknowledgement as a leader, or motivate others to become leaders and take those actions.
I believe a political platform should be determined and citizens who are committed to instituting these new policies should run for office at every level of government including federal, state, and local municipalities nation wide. Within six years we could remove the corrupt life long politicians.
The candidates we support obviously should be qualified but should be from middle class ilk and definitely not have current political ties. I am tired of political candidates passing off creating or running a company as some kind of prerequisite to running for office. Many business leaders if not most of them, do not have the working class persons interest in mind when making decisions.
Don't worry. The problem is very complex. It will take a while to sort it out. You are on the right track. The organization will come with the understanding
You all need to educate yourselves on a number of issues. Mostly economics and some politics. You also need to learn the "Scientific Method" which is NOT just for science but is, rather, THE method by which we determine what is true and what is false. Once you learn it, you will have one of the tools you'll need to understand what is really happening. The other tool, is the courage to challenge your belief systems.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/ this looks like a great start
absolutely you said it. why did tahrir square work? because they came up with a demand and stopped going to work. if people start calling in sick to work on certain days the corporations will become so fucked especially service industry jobs. What good will money be if you can't even get a coffee on your way to work?
You're right. Without coffee, society will crumble.
well, those corporate folks will be pissed.
Most of the threads are getting right to the point: we have a private central bank, the very thing our founding fathers warned would be more dangerous to our liberty than a standing army. #OCCUPY THE FED