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Forum Post: Was Muhammad - woman hater ?

Posted 2 years ago on March 8, 2012, 6:31 a.m. EST by FriendlyObserverB (1871)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Islam treats women horrible.

162 Comments

162 Comments


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[-] 4 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

The problem is that devout followers of any religion tend to lock themselves in to how things were done in the century that religion organized. Those that adhere to a strict fundamentalist view don't let their faith evolve with society. It no longer matters who or what Muhammad was, his teachings are out of step with western societies evolving views on women's rights.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

We must separate religion from law.

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Easy to say, in some countries and also within some small religious communities religion is the only law.

[-] 3 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I think that is the way things were back then. Back in those days Islam treated women with more respect than Judaism or Christianity did. I do not believe in either case you can call it hate as much as dominance.

In the Bible man was created in God's image and woman was not and was created from Adam. Also the bible states of woman, "your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you" (Genesis 3:16)

I Cor. 14:34, 35 – “Let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law. And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.”

Zech. 14:2 “And the city shall be taken and the women ravished.”

Even the new testament treats woman as subordinates.
1 Timothy 2:11-15 11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet at all times.13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.

Eph. 5:22, 24 – “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: …. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.”

Num. 31:15-18 Moses’ words – “…kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”


There are similar passages in the Koran as for the role of woman but fundamentally they were/are considered on the same level as man :

"A woman is not created for the purpose of a man. Rather, they are both created for the mutual benefit of each other"

Historically, women in Muslim societies had more property rights than in many other parts of the world.

Also, historically women were judges in the Islamic courts something that was never allowed Jewish or Christian regions for thousands of years.

You have to remember that some of the ideas in the Koran come from Christianity.

Muhammad, Islam's Prophet, believed Jesus was sent by Allah to be the Messiah, miraculously born of the Virgin Mary, who brought the Gospel, who died, was raised from the dead, then ascended into heaven to be with Allah. Jesus would become an everlasting blessing to all mankind!

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

Lets fast forward to today. How are they treated today compared to women elswhere?

We all can fall back on history to see how women where treated back then and are supposed to learn from it, but we are speaking of today and how they are treated.

Are they treated any better - I don't think so. Religious rules rule when it comes to muslim beliefs. .

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

First, the original post was not asking about today it was asking about Muhammad and the answer is that he respected woman more than the Christians of his day.

For thousands of years since then Christian woman were second class. In fact black freed slave MEN had the right to vote 80 years before white woman.

Now fast forward to today. The video I posted of Christians persecuting Christian woman and children in Kenya, Nigeria, and Uganda were from today.

There are even some Christians sects in the US like the "Reformed Church" the still treat woman as subservient to men.

So my point is that it has more to do with culture and education than it does with religion. As we become more educated our superstitions and sometimes warped concepts become unreasonable. We end the practice of stoning, hanging, guillotine. We no monger have separate bathrooms for blacks because we know we will not catch something from them.

Educated Muslims who are living in western economically strong countries treat woman as equals.

[+] -4 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Joe, both Islam and Christianity wers spawned by Satan .. and as two witnesses .. they shall fall.

[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Well, most holy books take a rather unenlightened approach to the treatment of women. When Muhammad first began his religious work, his main concern was treatment of the poor. When his first wife died (who was I think 20 years his senior), that's when I think things started to take a different direction.

I'm not trying to disparage anyone's deeply held beliefs, and maybe it's not fair to view things like this from our modern perspective, and the prism of contemporary morality; but if we don't challenge these ideas, then we don't progress.

Did they hate women? I mean, if we define hate from the perspective of our modern virtues, then yes, but the problem with religion (in general) is it tends to preserve and sustain what are mostly bad ideas (with a few decent ideas sprinkled in), almost in perpetuity. It's much harder to defeat bad ideas when they're stamped with the indicia of religion.

Religion is in many respects a means of tribal identification. In this context, it's very similar to nationalism; and that tribal aspect of religiosity tends to keep people mired in a battle for ideas that they never properly scrutinized.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

He was born in 570 CE. I ask, how many woman likers were there in 570 CE?

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Are you saying women were never really liked very much ? Where do you feel the hate towards women originates ?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Not at all and it really depends on location. It's fear based and I would say started (in part) with early physicians (like Galen) and the concept that when men had sex they lost a little soul. Secondly, there was little known of the anatomy of women and for hundreds of years they truly thought that a vagina and womb were actually inside out penises. Thus, women were considered deficient versions of men.

That truly was not conducive!

However, there was also this hatred towards the physical body and sex that originated with pagans and grew within early Christianity. This deny the body to strive for this higher spiritual attainment. As opposed to we just won in war and we are going to castrate your men to prove it, there are those that are actually seeking to be castrated.

Anyways, over time the subjecting women was a way to control the property and cash. Notice that there comes a time when women could be free from marriage as long as they paid off the church. Women were dangerous. They tempted men's celibacy. They had children. They stole a little soul. Then there is that little lie about a virgin birth. We have had well over a thousand years of the same game.

As you know, the four hot spots of Christianity were Alexandria, Constantinople, Antioch and Rome and Islam actually grew out of early Christianity. Consider that it took 8 Centuries of development for Christology and it was a top down control of society. People did not run to join that new religion.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 2 years ago

We do not know our missing history, this info is all new, most cannot really understand what has happened and what is happening without this info. If you are racked with disbelief and rejection, please consider the implications. If that is the case afterward reading this post, see the very top line of the top of page 176 from "Emotions and Memory" 1964 by David Rappaport at this link. It relates to the 11th commandment somewhat described below.

http://i39.tinypic.com/24ouc0l.jpg

GirlFriday wrote** "However, there was also this hatred towards the physical body and sex that originated with pagans and grew within early Christianity. This deny the body to strive for this higher spiritual attainment. As opposed to we just won in war and we are going to castrate your men to prove it, there are those that are actually seeking to be castrated."

There were a few Pagan factions that went that way. They used hypnosis as a part of their society. They went all ways, some Christians went there too. It's a gray world in this area and up to us to know what is light and dark. Without the basic truth of what our mental existence is, we will not know the difference.

Firstly, our lives are unconscious or subconscious events. I use the word unconscious, really, normally unknowable rather than just submerged. Psychologists refer to it as the "deep unconscious".

From birth to death we are continuosly at least 86% unconscious. For 18 hour periods, interupted every 24 hours, we are what we call conscious and can conduct cognitive rational thinking. Think of it like a comb. The spaces between the teeth are our conscious lives and light travels through. Our unconscious is the back and body of the comb along with the teeth, our sleep periods.

Some religion has worked to get rid of this fact and simply acknowledge the waking state. This action was designed by and often accomodated very dark factions having control over people. This is the reason psychology was stopped from examining hypnosis after the 1960's. I can substantiate in ways if any require proof.

To show the truth I have 2 images, scans of text. The first is a page from a Holisitic healing guide that talks about hypnosis on children under 5. Pagans hypnotize their children at age 3.5 and induct them into their society. (See bottom right corner)

http://tinypic.com/r/rvanfl/5

This fact has become completely invisible to Pagans in order to protect themselves from persecution. Such is natural and the 11th commandment was invented by their ancient leadership to define the instincts that compelled the action. A form of naturally self imposed secrecy. This creates problems because the cognitive processes may not be involved ever. Most Pagans had methods of making unconscious communications conscious is small bits and pieces and could regulate themselves in their hypnotic contact with their people to varying degrees.

Now extend these facts and combine them with the one which shows that some women and girls can be more easily hypnotized than men or boys. See C2.

http://tinypic.com/r/2hqgjsy/5

Now you have a situation where a society has some reason for discriminating against females because the dark Pagans are always working to usurp parental control and that of the dominant society in competition with it by exploiting children unconsciously.

Within the above described imposed secrecy, women are discriminated against with none really knowing why.

To show how Pagan, Indigenous people compensated in an indirect way, examine the reasons for Matriarchal societies.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Ok. Look. I can find no way to break this to you gently. The cheese has slid off your cracker.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 2 years ago

If you had any evidence there justifying the rejection evidence, qualified facts of psychology, that might be an approriate or reasonable response for a woman. Since you don't, it's unconscious defense of defacto secrecy.

I already posted the adequate and reasonable response to your comment at the beginning of mine.

afterward reading this post, see the very top line of the top of page 176 from "Emotions and Memory" 1964 by David Rappaport at this link. It relates to the 11th commandment somewhat described below.

http://i39.tinypic.com/24ouc0l.jpg

If another could be hypnotized and not know it so could you, so to deny that possibility, you deny any possibility.

Here is proof of hyperamnesia making such performance possible.

http://i42.tinypic.com/inz8r8.jpg

See the footnotes regarding "somnambulism". Here is a valid inference.

BASIS 1 of INFERENCE

The first sentance of page 175 of EMOTIONS and MEMORY, 1964, by David Rappaport,

"The general tendency" of the subject to forget the events of the trance after emerging from it."

BASIS 2 of INFERENCE

(1) of the same paragraph states that, "The hypnotist can successfully suggest that no posthypnotic amnesia develop".

Basis 2 Restated; Suggestion conducive to remembering is successful or generally, suggestion effecting memory has effect against a general tendancy.

CONDITIONS OF BASIS

The first note page 175, EMOTIONS and MEMORY, Note #8 states (first note below main text) that the results of memory described "in general are valid only with subjects who are able to reach the somanmbulistic stages ofhypnosis."

INFERENCE ONE

Logical inference of BASIS 1 with BASIS 2, is that; suggestion to forget will have a greater effect on memory because of the general "tendency to forget". Research confirms with observations of behavior consistent with general hyperamnesia at the top of page 176, the end of a footnote that begins on page 175 stating;

"we find hypnotized people indignantly denying they have been hypnotized."

INFERENCE ONE

If the tendancy is to forget following hypnosis that induces a trance to the level of somanmbulism and suggection effecting memory is successful then suggestion to forget will be more effective than suggestion to remember.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Look, we DO KNOW our history. You may not know it but a lot of other people know it.

There are no "dark pagans" hypnotizing their children.

So, while you are free to believe in that babble.......that's fine....... But, I don't buy it.

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 2 years ago

If this is true, what was the LOST war?

GirlFriday wrote "Look, we DO KNOW our history."

Here's some hints, as questions, because I know how clueless you are on this.

The Magna Carta and who signed it, why?

GirlFriday wrote "You may not know it but a lot of other people know it."

"A lot of other people" is correct but the rest is wrong. ALL Americans know the false history taught and recorded and believe it which dooms us to being TOOLS of the elite that DO know the real history.

GirlFriday wrote "So, while you are free to believe in that babble.......that's fine"

Flat out, the above are cognitive distortions you have learned to falsely justify positions you cannot evidence or reason using distortions. Here is a list of the ones decieved Americans have learned to use, as if they were functional precepts for communicating. They are not. You have used 10 and 4.

COGNITIVE DISTORTIONS 1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories.

  1. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous.

  2. Mental filter: Details in life (positive or negative) are amplified in importance while opposite is rejected.

  3. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.

  4. Mind reading: One absolutely concludes that others are reacting positively or negatively without investigating reality.

  5. Fortune Telling: Based on previous 5 distortions, anticipation of negative or positive outcome of situations is established fact.

  6. Catastrophizing: Exaggerated importance of self's failures and others successes.

  7. Emotional reasoning: One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation.

  8. "Should" statements: Self imposed rules about behavior creating guilt at self inability to adhere and anger at others in their inability to conform to self's rules.

  9. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.

  10. Personalization: Thinking that the actions or statements of others are a reaction to you.

  11. Entitlement: Believing that you deserve things you have not earned.

GirlFriday wrote "But, I don't buy it."

Correct, you and other Americans bought and paid for this.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3abd94cc-6b9e-11e1-ac25-00144feab49a.html#axzz1oqZYYRlz

The list of tragedy goes WAY BACK that you and other Americans have purchased in exploitation of you in fearful divided, deceived states.

Basically, America has been secretly dedicated to killing all humans who will not accept the deception they have been taught and learned.

Patently . . . dear GirlFriday, you and they are terrified of 86% of themselves, the unconscious mind, and the fact that it controls humans, you included, . . .and that it can be reached by a spooky, weird, scary, ancient, rejected technique of communication called hypnosis wherein instincts can be exploited, what is right, or . . . wrong IF people refuse to recognize it is possible.

Do you still want to be deceived, or can you tell me what the last war was?

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Wow ... that's a lot of investment for quibble on the internet?

COGNITIVE DISORDER: getting so pissed about an internet debate, with someone you most likely don't know personally, you write a goddamn manifesto about it ... WTF? :)

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[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Lol, and your calling me a " dumb ass"!

The true cause of all hate is fear.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You're damn straight I am calling you a dumb ass. What the hell were you thinking with that other thread? Fear much?

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Well , everyone is defending the Muslims on this site. Seems pretty suspicious dontcha think.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Moderate Muslims. There is a good amount of analyzing what has transpired up to this point based on history and a recognition that those Muslims that moved to the US-did so for a good reason.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Acknowledged.

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[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

there is no such thing as a moderate muslim. you either follow the koran or you don't, in which case you are targeted by muslims for death.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Wrong. It is based on different interpretations. The same as all little religions and their spin offs. The extremism comes out of Saudi Arabia and is what we call Wahhabism which is based on the writings of this dude: Ibn Taymiyyah. It was exported from Saudi Arabia into other countries. That's Sunni.

Even Iran's Shiite religion is an extreme version. But, the more hard core the religious overlords in power the more control they have over the population.

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

you have no understanding of islam. if you're a muslim you must follow the koran. if you don't you are not considered a muslim and you are a target for thier retribution.. 90 students ( this week) were stoned to death in iraq for having western haircuts.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I have an understanding of Islam. Thanks. You still aren't getting that whole extremism used to manipulate and control the population. So, you have 90 students that were not extremist, you said?

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago
[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (34992) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

As have so many repressed and oppressed peoples. WE are a nation of escapees from tyranny.

[-] -2 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

what oppressive nation did you escape from?

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34992) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I was born in the USA. I know history and will not forget the lessons of the past. I will not stand quietly and watch the greatest nation in the world die.

I am here today and every day to fight corruption.

We ( I ) do not want America to become a place that people want to escape from.

I want America to continue to be a place of hope a supporter of life.

The people are waking up and are starting to get involved.

United we will not let this country of "Ours" die from corruption and pollution.

[-] -2 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

if you want to fight corruption, don't vote for 0bama. everyone of his "green " energy "investments are failures. they are nothing more than money laundering schemes for his friends and himself.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (34992) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You are not living in Egypt are you? Not really a Germaine question. Just a familiar opening.

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

Denial is not a place in the real world.

But apparently "you" live there.

The rest of us are dealing with issues of reality. The real world.

[-] -2 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

what YOU and the rest of ows people are "dealing" is what you're told to "deal " with. solyndra? LightSquared? the take over of GM by the govt ? ( the volt is a failure)Ener1?, Beacon Power?

[-] 2 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The "Judeo-Christian" bible advocates rape.

http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

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[-] 2 points by flip (5436) 2 years ago

and how many did the christians burn?? with peace in their hearts though!

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

does that redeem islam ?

[-] 2 points by flip (5436) 2 years ago

not at all but you seem to be pointing your fat little finger in the wrong direction - take care of your own house then talk about your neighbor - you have a sickness - can't you find a better website for your hate - are you jewish - is that why you are on this crusade?? read the bible and get back to me - start with the story of lot - i am sure you don't know it so get to work!

[-] -3 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

when I look at islam and the muslim world, I see the awful truth of their brutal existence ..

[-] 1 points by flip (5436) 2 years ago

you are an idiot!

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Islam does not require redemption...neither does Christianity, or Judaism, Buddism, Hinduism, or any of the isms that exist as religious doctrines. What people fail to realize is that the names of the religious creeds point towards everything regarding Divinity, man's self realization of love within and one's true connection with the almighty, by whatever name men have placed upon the Omnipotent! We know something exists within us...but how many are wise enough to find it? Religions were placed here to guide man in order for him to find that inner god like quality. Faith..... So,. as we can see.....it is man who needs redemption for what he has done with those religious creeds for his own selfish acts...not the religion....look up the word....many interpretations but only one main emphasis....belief!

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Islam was inspired by satans angel Gabriel. Jesus was Satan.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

You really need to go to a school for Theologians, or true ministry and stop preaching such nonsense...Are you high??

Show me what Gabriel looked like, show me what Jesus looked like, show me where all this nonsense originated...and I will show you how the world has been duped by 'The greatest story ever told' Story, not TRUTHS!!!

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

What people used to do in the name of jesus
What people do today in the name of muhammed ARE EVIL

what is different today is that the bible does not condone or encourage murder
nothing in the bible has anything to do with jihad or fatwas

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Liar....stop with the hypocrisy!!! Every faith has been re-interpreted by man.
I taught Sunday school and the first rule of thumb was to teach "David slay Goliath". "Slay the Philistines/ the Gentiles" "Cast the first stone" "Herod slayed the first born of every family" "Jesus died on the cross for our sins"????? Well, did God put him up there? Now, come on...get real!!!!
Man in his utter shamelessness strikes down other men, the beast, the birds and the children of the earth!!! If what you say is true....then what the hell were the Crusades? Did not GW state that America was on a Crusade against Islam...present day?
Here is the definition of Crusades: The Crusades were expeditions undertaken, in fulfilment of a solemn vow, to deliver the Holy Places from Mohammedan tyranny.(infidels) The origin of the word may be traced to the cross made of cloth and worn as a badge on the outer garment of those who took part in these enterprises. Now there "holy wars" are called enterprises while individuals forget they are still occurring from both sides!!!! Enterprises of Apartheid, enterprises of the indigenous in Australia, and "enterprises" all across the globe, where the majority of the individuals that are being annihilated were not and are not Christians!!! The rich condone murders, while the poor suffer and die through ignorance and under the guise of religion!! Stop making this into some type of fairy tale....It is not!!!

[-] 0 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

I agree. Too many don't seem to understand that. Or don't want to .

[-] 0 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

What the Bible says about Holy War (/Jihad):

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/holywar.html

[-] 0 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

"Murder in the Bible: In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, not being a virgin on your wedding night, children who make fun of bald people... There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children."

Read more at http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

muslims murder gay people. they murder their own people. in iraq. 90 muslim teens were stoned to death for having western haircuts.

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

capital punishment is WRONG
but not only is in WRONG
as actually practiced in the ancient world - it was almost never used
And reporting battles in a book from centuries ago is different from
your book:
5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands
and feet on alternate sides cut off
5:38 As for the thief, cut off their hands.
5:51 Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends.
5:60 Allah hath turned some Jews into apes and swine
5:63 Rabbis and priests - Verily evil is their handiwork.
33:50 We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war

Although I don't know if there has ever been a war between Orthodox Jews and Reform Jews. And Christianity did not start waring against each other over religion for 1500+ years When did Sunnis start waring against Shiites? and killing EACH OTHER ? In the year 632 - the year Muhammed died.

[-] 0 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

You wrote: "the bible does not condone or encourage murder, nothing in the bible has anything to do with jihad or fatwas"

I merely called you on your lies.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

capital punishment is not murder -
blowing up buses full of children is murder,
beheading a journalist is murder,
blowing up buildings with airplanes is murder,
pushing old men off of a boat in a wheel chair is murder THAT's the truth


And me, personally, I don't worship ANY book - they were ALL written by flawed men. No on can find God in a book.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

From the collapse of matriarchy in prehistoric times all the way to the beginnings of feminism in the 18th century (probably with Mary Wollstonecraft and John Stewart Mill) there is probably no "civilized" culture on Earth that was at all sympathetic to women (though remnants of matriarchy persisted in some aboriginal cultures to the modern era). Why should early medieval Arabic culture be any different from the rest of the world?

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Just goes to prove the answers are not in the past.

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

First of all how many Muhammads, Mohammeds, were there? Designate which one you are referring to? Mohammed the Conqeror, Prophet Mohammed, since "" Muhammad" is a common male name for Muslims. Did you know that the Koran, as written by Prophet Mohammed, was re-written several times by different individuals and it is stated that "Translations were the result of human effort and human fallibility, as well as lacking the inspired poetry believers find in the Qur'an. Translations are therefore only commentaries on the Qur'an, or "translations of its meaning", not the Qur'an itself. So, writings throughout the ages can be the same as the different renditions of the King James Bible, or the Catholic Bible, or the Hebrew bible or the Mormon Bible.
The King James Bible states that Abraham had the right to have a son by his hand maiden and a son by his wife. Women were stoned to death who were thought to have been adulterers and were shunned and sometimes murdered by their families if they didn't follow the belief of their families...Story of Ruth....now how different is that from what you state about the east or Islam?.
True Islam knows that women are the creators of life..and men are taught accordingly to have respect and esteem for them.....so obviously most of you have never known what True Islam is.... Get Educated first!!!

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Let's also remember that uncounted testements from the appossals of Jesus were sought out and destroyed, and their adherents persecuted, so that what we know of Jesus is the result of an effective effort at historical cleansing. It is these complexities that render Religious hatred all the more absured. Can we even really know what we think we know after millinums of translation, supression and active revision of the various Judeo-Christian gospels?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21469) 2 years ago

Well said.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

There are something like a billion Muslims in the world today. Have you ever eaten dinner with just one of them, or stayed in their home? Have you ever had a long conversation with one of them, like I had with a young muslim woman last week? If you had, you wouldn't be able to make such a blanket statement.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

I phoned the Nigerian ambassador a few years back in protest of a young woman that was to be stoned to death for becoming pregnant out of wedlock. She had divorced her husband and than than later she was impregnated by him, and for this she was to be stoned. Her name was Amina lawal. The ambassador laughed at me and said to me," what are you going to do , start a coo? " I responded, " you people are crazy!". And hung up. I believe her life was spared by much world intervention.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Our own history is not far away from the time when women who became pregnant out of wedlock were severely chastised...and let's not forget the wide-spread pedophilia that went on for the past 100 years. Imagine if those in the Islamic clergy were found guilty of those crimes. I am not condoning that kind of treatment of women or children, rather I am very critical of any, and all religious zealotry that enables it to happen. The fact is that Islam is practiced in a multitude of ways. Some of those ways are barbaric, yes and ...and in other ways...not at all so. Fom my life experience in Christianity...I have found that those who preach morals seldom have them

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I would hope that he did not hate

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Jacob had 12 sons that compose the 12 tribes of Israel

I guess the he was a great man because the had 12 sons

is any of the new testament written by woman?

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21469) 2 years ago

My god. Would you read through some of these threads over the past few days and tell me that Western men treat women well. I'm sickened by some of the monikers and posts I've seen here. The majority of Muslim women love their faith and their men so get over it FriendlyObserverB. Stop pitting cultures against one another.

[-] 1 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 2 years ago

Admit it, you're a bona fide loser magnet and likely snag one then obliviously torture/reduce him to something repulsive, I'm right aren't I?

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

and yes, I have noticed a few posts out of control ... perhaps women should not be permitted on the internet ..? They seem to make men terribly angry .. ;-]

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21469) 2 years ago

I think you should be banned for saying that. Read the rules. Sexism is not allowed. You are the perfect example of the "problem" men we have over here.

[-] 1 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 2 years ago

Oh but you accuse men of irrationally not wanting to pay for contraception for others, and lump them in with many very undesirable types. This makes you far more of a sexist and you should be banned first.

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

I'm not sexist bw. I love women and all they have to offer .. With all their beauty, kindness and creative minds .. they smile and light up the day .. Women are gods gift to man .. A beautiful gift.

But , I will not deny men and women have been struggling in relationships since adam ate the apple. It's not supposed to be this way .. and it pains me to see so much unhappiness in the world. I think many feel the same way .. they try so hard to make it work , but the frustration and bad results .. can be very disappointing.. councilors usually can not help a bad relationship and they are the experts. I think it's all part of Satans plan to prevent happiness on this earth.

[-] -3 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

you are so naive and politically correct. Please don't travel to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or other muslim countries, you won't last a minute. Oh wait this just in....Muslim countries treat women better then the mean old Western Christian countries. I'll be darned who would have thought that possible?

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Do you think muslim men would whip beautifulworld if she was out walking the the streets all alone ? beat her to the ground ..

[-] -3 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i hope that she values her safety and well being and avoids the top Muslim vacation spots in the world. I heard that Burka Beach is beautiful this time of year.

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

she could tip her toes in the water ..

[-] -3 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

Or Bomb Bay has some great resorts and those sunsets!

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

sounds beautiful ..

[+] -4 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i think that the liberals have abandoned this thread as it's difficult for them to adsorb that a victim and minority (what muslims are to the liberal mind) are actually violent, anti-women. Their liberal minds cannot accept that truth.

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

they refuse to open their eyes, or as I suspect , they may be the perpetrators.

[-] -2 points by TeaPartyWillPrevail (-16) 2 years ago

Lib minds disconnect at truth, much like Robbie the Robot in Forbidden Planet when ordered to harm a human.

[-] -1 points by shooz (17714) 2 years ago

Teabaggers raised my taxes!!!

Teabaggers=liars.

Time for YOU to disconnect.

[-] -3 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

that's a great comparison.

[-] -3 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Hi bw, where have you been !

some bad news for you about Islam .. muslim men have been permitted to throw battery acid in their wives faces .. it's absolutely horrible .. Islam is the cruelest of cruel .. truly a hateful place to be. The muslim men are extremely cruel. I feel terribly sad and angry for what happens to the women in a muslim culture.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21469) 2 years ago

We just have rapists, batterers, child support shirkers, men who don't want to share in the cost of birth control. Oh, and I do recall a woman getting her face shot off by a lover and even one in the States who had acid thrown on her. Hmmm.

Now, see, you just try to get everyone into your little hateful nonsense. So, I will clarify that I know and love many good men, Muslim, Western, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, young, old, Jewish, Christian, etc. Most of them are great, but just like in the Islamic world, we have our "problem" men over here.

[-] -2 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 2 years ago

I take care of my own women if they cannot take care of themselves.

I don't need any other men taking care of what's mine.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

You are comparing some people not wanting to share the cost of birth control with women getting killed for marrying a non muslim, or having an affair, of disobeying their husband. . I can't believe it! Violence against women is institutionally supported in muslim countries, they can't show their gd faces wearing 700 ad clothing. . the problem is that liberals like you see muslims as victims, the Christian white male and the West in general as the bad guy. Anything the victims do is OK.

[-] -3 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

I just listened to a radio program about this.. in pakistan there are 145 reported cases of women having acid thrown on them .. and they believe most women won't report it .. I even remember a report of a bunch of girls on their way to school being assaulted with acid .. it's awful bw .. when will you stop defending such horror ..

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21469) 2 years ago

I'm not defending such horror, but that is a lot of propaganda. Have you ever been in a Muslim home? Very loving place. It is wrong to extrapolate onto over a billion people the actions of a few.

That's like saying all Christians commit incest because, let me tell you, there are thousands of cases of that in the West.

Stop hating. I'm done here.

[-] 1 points by flip (5436) 2 years ago

he is an ass - somehow these people wreck this site - if you want to get an idea of what the jewish and christian bible says about women read the story of lot - find out why he was saved!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21469) 2 years ago

Thanks, flip, for your voice of reason.

[-] -2 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

the voice of reason , flip ? flip is always bashing the USA, it was flips brother that flew the plane into tower one !

[-] 0 points by flip (5436) 2 years ago

just stating the truth - if the shoe fits - did i say you were an idiot already?

[-] -3 points by TeaPartyWillPrevail (-16) 2 years ago

ASS! I for one have NO use for ANY abrahamic but at least judaism and christianity had a reformation. Where is the muzzie reformation? You're still worried about what their books said two THOUSAND years ago, when women are being tortured and murdered by your "peaceful" gutter "religion" TODAY?! Typical leftist hypocrite, nothing to see here, folks, move along...

[-] 2 points by flip (5436) 2 years ago

you are so concerned about women - really - and can you tell me the story of lot?? no i didn't think so - all the male sky god religions are shit

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[-] -2 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

sure .. walk away

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[-] -1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

one thing i like about iran is the hanging of their gays, i would retract this statement however if they kept in their closets. For God will judge, but may my children (whom i am responsible for in teaching them right from wrong) never see their bad example.

[-] -1 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

No he wasn't, & No Islam doesn't (though many ignorant men, both Muslim & non-Muslim, do, unfortunately).

So stop spouting your hatred & bile all over this Forum, Troll!

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

I am only trying to free muslims from the bondage of Islam; A Satan spawned religion.

[-] -1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

You should be banned for that comment and your never ending Islamophobia.

[-] 1 points by foolend (12) 2 years ago

The hell with them islam diaper heads

[-] -1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

It's almost springtime for Hitler, and the racists are in bloom.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

The angel Gabriel spoke to Muhammad. Gabriel was Satan's angel.

[-] 0 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

How do you know that? Islam is NOT MENTIONED in the New Testament! It DIDN'T EXIST YET, when that book was written.

The Angel Gabriel (according to Christian mythology) was sent from Heaven to announce the birth of Jesus to the Virgin Mary. Hardly a Satanic force. (Never mind that Satan was a complete invention by the Church, and was never a part of Judaism, of which Christ was a devotee.)

What a fucking moron. So your racism is based on mythology. Doesn't make it any less racist. Jews were slaughtered in the millions for the same justification. As were Native Americans. As were the Celts.

Now you are are spewing the bile of a new witch-hunt.

Go fuck yourself.

[-] -2 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Everything in the quran was dictated to Muhammad by Satan's angel Gabriel. And yes Gabriel spoke to Mary. And Jesus was Satan in the flesh. He deceived many. His ministers are righteous because they to are deceived. Satan is the head of the church and will be soon revealed which will bring about the great apostasy. Both Islam and Christianity will fall.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I'm terribly sorry. I shouldn't have been so mean to you. I simply didn't realize you are mentally ill.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Banned ... or burned ?

[-] 0 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Either one you choose. I'm comfortable with both. But the forum rules about racism is what you violate, and I don't think the penalty for that is death, just banning.

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Why do you hate whiteman?

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Huh? Are you calling me a White man or are you saying that I hate White men?

Even your questions are nonsense.

[-] -1 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

The only spawn of Satan round here are hate-filled Trolls like you.

[-] -3 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

If I do have hate in my heart, it's for those who put it their.. so be careful with what seeds you sew.

[-] 1 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

Oooooh! Thinly veiled threats, now! I'm sooooooo scared!

Loser! ROFL

[-] -3 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

not a threat but a word of caution.. there is many evil in the world .. and some day all that evil that has been sewn will turn against the evil that put it there .. and there will be " hell to pay "

[-] 0 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

I agree. That's why we need to unite to stop the 1% orchestrating all the Wars of Aggression, terrorism, ethnic-cleansing, land-thefts, vast financial frauds, authoritarianism, environmental devastation, & many other evils, for GREED - & stop spreading hatred & division among the 99% who are the victims!

[-] -3 points by TeaPartyWillPrevail (-16) 2 years ago

You wannabe 99%ers are always screaming "GREED!", all the while you either fail to see your hypocrisy or you are comfortable with it (I vote for the latter). I've known some of you OWS brats, I even knew a 40 year old loser that self-identified as a OWS supporter and obowmao voter (and yes, he regrets his vote. CHUMPS!). there are two common threads with you clowns; the lazy and the failures. You are, as they say in Yiddish, a schnorrer. You are a GREEDY mooch, you are nothing more than aggressive, pushy panhandlers that ask "Is this all?!" after you you've been given a handout. YOU are the greedy, madame! How dare you mooches demand more the producers! Now yake your scraps and crumbs, go back to park to get high with Trust and Shipwreck and Shroom, your cool scummy bum friends at the Occupy park! LOOSER (I spell it that way to show how stoopid some of you dildos are)!

[-] 1 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

LOL! You registered yet another userid just to spew your hate-filled guts! ROFL

When are you Greedy, Neocon, Zionist, Hatemongers going to realize that you're your own worst enemies, & by far the most effective de-legitimizers of your whole supremacist project? ROFL

[-] -1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

You are, as they say in Yiddish, a putz. Schmuck would be fine, too.

If you hate OWS why are you posting on its support site? Schlemeil might be a good word for you, too.

Corporate and governmental greed is OK with you, but those who protest it are somehow greedy? The hypocrisy is yours. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

“And one day we must ask the question, "Why are there forty million poor people in America?" And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth. When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

[-] -2 points by TeaPartyWillPrevail (-16) 2 years ago

Are you kidding?! Good ol' Mo' LOVED bitches! Why, he loved 'em so much, he married his fourth wife when she was nine years old! But I hear she had the body of a twelve year old, lololololol! The world will be a far more beautiful place when muzzies are slaughtered worldwide and their filthy entrails strewn across their wastelands as a reminder not to start disgusting, violent gutter "religions" like islime. Next, will work on the asshole jew-worshipping christians...

[-] -3 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i can't believe how the liberals on this site support Islam. Islam is so anti women, anti gay, anti semitic, anti anything liberals like. Now the liberals will say 'the Christians hate as well'. Maybe some do, but please show me the last time Christians publically stoned a women to death or hanged a gay person as is currently happening in current Muslim countries. This makes me sick how liberals are so defensive about Islam.

[-] 4 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

There are sects that stoned women - the Taliban who we thankfully took down. They are a tribal third world clan and do not represent the billions of Muslims.

Similarly these Christians are tribal third world and do not represent most Christians when they torture women and children http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S96gh4XdYk0.

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

the taliban are still around.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

No kidding so are the nasty Christians in Africa.

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

how about the arab muslims owning black christian slaves in the sudan? any comments?

[-] 3 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Yes, they are definitely, absolutely, positively just as bad as the Christians that are torturing hundreds of woman and children.

To me immoral behavior is immoral regardless of religion.

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

where are christians torturing women and children? africa is a continent , can you be specific?

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago
[-] 0 points by shooz (17714) 2 years ago

Uganda.

Look it up.

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

0bama put 100 US troops there to protect the soros oil interests. uganda is the only country in the world with a national holiday commemorating its rejection of homosexuality. every june 3rd it honors the 22 young men and boys that were tortured and burned alive in 1886 by the homosexual king mwanga because they refused to submit to sodomy. uganda has reacted violently to the george soros backed army of agitators who now seek to re-homosexualize the uganda culture.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17714) 2 years ago

You are indeed, an odd person.

Stuck in conspiracy theory land.

Are you sure you can't make the bigfoot connection?

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

do your own research. the troops are there to protect soros's interests.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17714) 2 years ago

I tried. There wasn't a credible source for your BS.

It's all about could be, might be, and maybe.

It's all a stretch.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

then how do you explain Saudi Arabia, Iran whose governments do the same thing?

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

First of all those two countries are still very tribal. These laws are more based on tribal and interpretation by various sects. Just as the Christians are torturing women and children in Africa it is based on the local culture more than the religion.

The Iranian judiciary officially placed a moratorium on stoning in 2002. I personally do not believe in capital punishment bit we were hanging people here in the US until 1937 and in Canada the last hanging was in 1962.

We can only hope that as the rest of the becomes more educated and economically sound these practices will disappear.

[-] -3 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

hanging someone for being a murderer is different then hanging someone for being gay (like Iran still does).

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I think you are missing the point.

The person posting this was blaming the religion instead of the nation and the culture.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i would agree with the post , for example Sharia law (that justifies a lot of the anti women policy) is Islam is the religion.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Sharia law is not the law of Islam it is a tribal law. Sharia law is not the Koran and is not the religion. It is an interpretation of law based on selective parts of the Koran. There are parts of the Bible that tell us to treat woman this way.

Most Christians do not subscribe to these passages inthe New Testament:

1 Timothy 2:11-15 11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet at all times.13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.

Eph. 5:22, 24 – “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: …. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.”

Although in some churches like the "Reformed Church" the woman is meant to serve man.

So again it say that is has more to do with tribal tradition and culture than it has to do with religion. Muslims that grow up in educated societies do not subscribe to these ideas just as .

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 2 years ago

Who you callin a LIBERAL??? I don't see anyone defending Islam anymore than you defending Christianity. This is not about defending a religion, it is about finding out the truth as to why you all are so full of hate and trash a religion just because it was not created for or not practiced by Western Society or Europeans.....Be for real... Islam is entitled to exist just like Christianity is entitled to exist.. If you all are trying to find the true enemies who are vile, filled with greed, and maintain constant hatred for their fellow men, women and children....then please...go look in your own mirrors and realize that the age old myth of a god creating a special race, a special religion, a special breed of people with a mindset to save the world is pure poppycock!! We must save ourselves!!! And you all wonder why this country is going to pot...or should I say..Meth!!!

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

This is largely true, and I'm a liberal (so we don't deny facts). We simply think that you don't change minds with a hammer. Moreover, if you dig back far enough in Christian history, you will find plenty of insanity. Islam never had a reformation, they never had an enlightenment.

They're starting to have one, and you guys are constantly freaking out because it's not unfolding in a perfectly smooth way. Well, newsflash, these things don't happen according to some magical script. Bumps in the road are inevitable.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned when things go wrong, we should, but there's a productive way of expressing concern (and taking action to address those concerns), and there's an unproductive way. Ideally, we want the liberty bell ringing throughout the middle east, and throughout the world; but it won't be easy (because in truth, magic doesn't really exist) :)

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[-] -3 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i really don't believe that anything positive is happening in the middle east, or with Muslims in general; now with the Arab spring dictators are being replaced by Islamist, which is worse? And please spare me the comparison of Islam today and Christianity in the past. You guys are freaking out. Duh we don't like gd Islamic terrori flying planes into buildings in the name of their god. And that's only the biggest Muslim terrorist act that so many more it's sickening.

[-] 3 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Apparently Pres. Obama doesn't either (didn't he finally kill the fucker who did that shit)? Not that I'm a big Obama fan, but Usama has been long digested and shitted out by the sharks, and I'm sure various other marine organisms :)

Oh yeah, what about that other fucker, who killed I think 189 Americans over Lockerbie Scotland? Aren't conservatives tripping over themselves saying what a bad idea it was to support the Libyans? I guess you guys like Presidents who spend a trillion dollars, where we lose thousands of servicemen and women, inventing enemies that never harmed US citizens, rather than the ones who hunt down and dispense of the people who murdered hundreds or thousands of our citizens? Well, I guess you'll have to excuse me for thinking this is ridiculous.

I may not be an Obama fan, but the area that you guys pick on him the most harshly, is the one area (by your own standards) that he's outperformed his republican predecessor by miles.

Ahhhh, the irony. You guys are making Obama's job way to easy. The worse part is, both Romney and Obama are the establishment candidates. Either way, we lose and the establishment wins, so don't be foolish enough to think voting out Obama will do you any favors. If anything, at least he's somewhat harnessed by his own rhetoric (whereas Romney promises complete unapologetic psychopathy).

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[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

are you talking to me? I think that Obama is a great (i mean great) terrorist killing machine. I love it, no complaints there, he continue the policies that Bush set in place. I don't understand your other rantings, but OK we don't agree on some things.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

This started with your statement "I can't believe how liberals on this site support" Islam. My initial response was to point out the fact that liberals simply take a different approach to trying to influence change (I think a better thought out approach, rather than thumping our chests and beating the war drum every time any little thing goes wrong).

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

muslims see "talk " as weakness. there is no diplomacy in islam.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Yet atheism is growing in the Islamic world .... so apparently information and knowledge can break the trance of even the most dogmatic religion.

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

a muslim turning toward atheism is looking at a death sentence..

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Yet atheism is still growing in the Muslim world.

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

then they will under a death threat. no one denounces islam without be subject to consequences

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

yup, exactly what the catholic church was saying 600 years ago, yet the reformation still happened, then the enlightenment happened, and secularism still grew notwithstanding the most brutish attempts to stop these ideas from spreading ... because enlightened ideas cannot be stopped!

Thuggery is the tool of the mentally unbalanced, those who lack the intellectual aptitude to interact with ideas without fear, without tribal impulse, without blood lust, and people (no matter how suppressed) eventually figure that out, and rise up to defeat it. It's as inevitable as the sunrise.

Any idea that relies on intimidation, is an inferior idea. Truth and goodness doesn't need the backing of thugs and psychopaths, only lies and evil do, and anyone who endorses the use of violence to sustain an idea, is a thug and psychopath (the calculus here is very simple) :)

That the thug and psychopath doesn't realize they're a thug and psychopath, doesn't matter. Indeed, their detachment from objective reality is only more proof that they're mentally unbalanced.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

OK that's fine. I think you are taking about the Arab spring happening in the Middle East. If so i'm not familiar with the different policy positions on it. My opinion is that the Dictators are being replaced by Islamist like Iran in the 70's (the Shah kick out for the crazy Mulahs). My comment before about liberals defending Islam was referring to the liberal stance that Muslims are the victims and are attacking the U.S. and the West in general in response to being abused historically or whatever or because they support Israel. My position is if someone attacks your country (9/11), you don's ask why don't they like me, you defend yourself and do what it takes to get rid of the threat.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

In some cases (although not all) Islamist's are trying to exploit the instability. This is to be expected whenever we have this degree of upheaval, but our response should not be to discourage change, rather we should be engaged in positive ways. It's unlikely this whole thing will go perfectly (I mean, this is just wishful thinking), and so we shouldn't have absurd expectations. Nevertheless, I'm certainly not saying we should do nothing when attacked, and I'm not really sure exactly what you're calling for here that's much different than what we're already doing, so I really don't know what the issue is? I think you're confusing kindness with weakness. The fact that liberals prefer rational nonviolent solutions doesn't mean that we're spreading our ass cheeks and inviting terrorists to fuck us at will.

I'm saying that the choice between non-engagement or always choosing military action over diplomacy, or sitting sheepishly by as we're repeatedly attacked, is a false dichotomy, and it's really just a strawman. If someone murders our citizens, or conspires to murder our citizens from abroad, then that is a classic justification for military action, but action against that person or group (not an entire religion); and it certainly shouldn't be exploited as a pretext to justify military action where the underlying motive is really just to loot our treasury and enrich well connected military contractors, or erode our liberties and buildup a homeland security infrastructure for the benefit of both military contractors and civil service unions (which really just amounts to more patronage between politicians and special interests).

Terrorism is more common in the Islamic world, and no one is arguing against the obvious. Hey, I get a little peeved when someone compares the small handful of terrorist attacks committed by westerners, to the almost every day barrage of terrorist attacks committed by Islamic extremists, and then try to say the two or three abortion clinic attacks, and McVeigh, puts us at cultural parity with the likes of the Taliban. But that absurd viewpoint does NOT speak for all liberals, and indeed it doesn't even speak for most liberals. It is true in many cases that the most extreme elements are the most vocal. This is just as true with liberals as it is with conservatives. Just like you wouldn't like it if I posted a youtube video of some dumbass wearing a Klansman outfit, expounding on his twisted worldview, and used that to characterize all conservatives, you shouldn't do the same thing with liberals.

Moreover, the word liberal shouldn't be confused with democrat or partisan politics in general. I think most people here can be identified as "liberal" in a general sense, but are disgusted by political corruption in this country (which both parties engage in).

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

we dropped bombs before 911 and after

this violent foreign policy is historical and also current

[-] -1 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i don't know what bombing of muslims before 9/11 that you are taking about that wasn't related to some Arab or Muslim aggression . and its great, killing terrorist is what they never expected. they thought that we would send lawyers over to kindly ask them to stop terrorizing us. I love those videos of gun ships mowing down Taliban terrorist in Afganistan after 9/11.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

bombing creates vengeance

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

make all the nice nice you want with muslims,................it's a waste of time. they're aren't interested. they hate anyone who isnt muslim,............in fact they murder their muslim people if they aren't muslim enough.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

not if you don't miss

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

dictators

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

http://thereligionofpeace.com/ please go the site and read about islam, the cult of death.

[-] -3 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

That takes guts "admitting you are a dumb ass" oops I mean a liberal

[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

When I say liberal, I mean the true meaning of the word, not it's political connotations. But, you're lack of tact and childish demeanor is duly noted (anyway, don't you have an anti-evolution rally to get to)? Hey is it true that conservatives now hate physics? I might sign up for that one ... dynamics and kinematics, what a headache :)

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

I believe it was Jesus whom prevented the stoning of a woman , when he said," he without sin may cast the first stone."

[-] 5 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

This is true but not all Christians follow the teachings of Jesus. In fact many throughout history did not and many still do not.

[+] -5 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

(open sarcasm) that's impossible, he was Christian (i know), he was the aggressor against the minorities of the time. Mohamed came about 600 (?) years later, and liberated women and all who were trodden upon, Come on get your history correct. (close sarcasm)

[-] -3 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Muhammad had 12 wives- not exactly a woman hater one wife was 7 years old
Warren Jeffs - where are you?

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

King Solomon had 1000 wives of all ages.